Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

[Lightbringer]

Yes he said the abuse started in June 1988 in Paris.

If he's wrong, then the alleged abuse started in March 1988 !

If Safechuck has gotten both dates and locations of alleged abuse wrong under oath, the alleged abuse could have started earlier as well, as we cant count on anything he claims to be 100% factual unless its documented

 

[1nn5]

In Tunisia:
Fans contacted a very famous journalist of the biggest channel in Tunisia ( El Hiwar Ettounsi) to talk about LN, and he accepted to work about LN in his program called 90'.
El Hiwar Ettounsi have 2.5 M subscribers on Youtube and Facebook.
+ another journalist in another Tunisian channel accepted to talk about LN in his program.

 

[Lovepeace1]

As far as I understand it James dated the New york story clarly after the bad tour has ended in 1989 and after the abuse had startet in paris in summer 1988 when he joined the bad tour.

Watch this video after 5:30
.

I've seen the video. but I do not understand what you mean. in the demand of james does NOT say that the 1989 grammy were in new york, what he says is that "after" the grammy (without specifying where were the grammy) they flew to new york to spent time together. The grammy were in los ángeles 1989 but after the grammy they caught a flight to new york.(without specifying if they flew to new York the next day of the grammy or when they flew).

And on the other hand michael attended the grammy of 1989 because he was nominated and he won an award that year for the videoclip of leave me alone.

it is not correct to say that james said they were together in the grammy of new york because simply in his demand he did not say that, he said that after the grammy of that year they went to new york.

 

[From Motown To Your Town]

I don't recall Michael ever attending the 89 Grammy awards - does anyone have proof he attended?

 

[Lovepeace1]

It says after Michael performed at the Grammy's. He's clearly messed up what year that took place. It appears Safechuck was in New York in 1988 after the Grammy's. That it is the year he is talking about. And no Michael was not at the 1989 Grammy's.

No, first of all, yes Michael was on grammy 1989 in los ángeles , he won an award for leave me alone video, he WAS on grammy this year. Who say that he did not was there?? He won a award this year (1989).
On the other hand safechuck in his lawsuit Talk about grammy of 1989 not about 1988. And he says that after grammy in feb.1989 in los ángeles Michael and him flew to new York to spent time together after grammy.

Read here:

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/artists/michael-jackson

And here:

https://es.scribd.com/document/324761203/James-Safechuck-September-19-2016-Second-Amended-Complaint

 

[WildStyle]

I've seen the video. but I do not understand what you mean. in the demand of james does NOT say that the 1989 grammy were in new york, what he says is that "after" the grammy (without specifying where were the grammy) they flew to new york to spent time together. The grammy were in los ángeles 1989 but after the grammy they caught a flight to new york.(without specifying if they flew to new York the next day of the grammy or when they flew).

And on the other hand michael attended the grammy of 1989 because he was nominated and he won an award that year for the videoclip of leave me alone.

it is not correct to say that james said they were together in the grammy of new york because simply in his demand he did not say that, he said that after the grammy of that year they went to new york.

You're wrong. Michael did NOT attend the 1989 Grammy awards ceremony regardless of whether or not he won an award. He was not there. Safechuck says he flew to New York by himself to spend time with Michael after he PERFORMED at the Grammy's. This happened in 1988. He's mixing up his dates.

Now I'm seeing that the photo of Safechuck, his mother and Michael at the United Negro College Fund was actually taken on March 10th while Michael was still in New York. So this is definitely the trip he is talking about. However he says he flew up there to be with Michael alone, yet his mum is there in the picture with them. So clearly his mum came too. So there's another lie.

 

[WildStyle]

Here is the photo. March 10th 1988, New York City. Safechuck did not fly to New York alone to be molested by Michael as he says in his complaint. He flew there with his mum and the alleged molestation hadn't even started yet.

 

[1nn5]

You're wrong. Michael did NOT attend the 1989 Grammy awards ceremony regardless of whether or not he won an award. He was not there. Safechuck says he flew to New York by himself to spend time with Michael after he PERFORMED at the Grammy's. This happened in 1988. He's mixing up his dates.

Now I'm seeing that the photo of Safechuck, his mother and Michael at the United Negro College Fund was actually taken on March 10th while Michael was still in New York. So this is definitely the trip he is talking about. However he says he flew up there to be with Michael alone, yet his mum is there in the picture with them. So clearly his mum came too. So there's another lie.

Safeshuck did say MJ PERFORMED in the grammy ?

 

[WildStyle]

Safeshuck did say MJ PERFORMED in the grammy ?

Yes.

 

[Lovepeace1]

You're wrong. Michael did NOT attend the 1989 Grammy awards ceremony regardless of whether or not he won an award. He was not there. Safechuck says he flew to New York by himself to spend time with Michael after he PERFORMED at the Grammy's. This happened in 1988. He's mixing up his dates.

Now I'm seeing that the photo of Safechuck, his mother and Michael at the United Negro College Fund was actually taken on March 10th while Michael was still in New York. So this is definitely the trip he is talking about. However he says he flew up there to be with Michael alone, yet his mum is there in the picture with them. So clearly his mum came too. So there's another lie.

what I mean is that james does not say they were in the grammy of new york, what he says is that he flew to new york to spend some time with michael "after" the grammy (without specifying when exactly). He does not says that the grammy was in New York.
that is, michael after the grammy of los angeles 1989 could catch a flight the next day or when it was (because it does not say when it was) and met with james which says he flew to new york where they spent some time together.
and yes, michael went to the grammy of los angeles


https://youtu.be/JuER1uDYuTQ

https://youtu.be/KVnSuk7MTz0

 

[1nn5]

what I mean is that james does not say they were in the grammy of new york, what he says is that he flew to new york to spend there a while with michael "after" the grammy (without specifying when exactly). It does not say that the grammy was in New York.
that is, that michael after the grammy of the angels could catch a flight the next day or when it was (because it does not say when it was) and met with james which says he flew to new york where they spent some time together.
and yes, michael if he went to the grammy of los angeles


https://youtu.be/JuER1uDYuTQ

https://youtu.be/KVnSuk7MTz0

Amarican Music Awards is not the Grammy awards.
Soul Train Music Awards isn't the Grammy Awards.

 

[1nn5]

Yes.

Yes, Michael ended in 1988 in Japan, but not the tour.
No, Michael didn't performed in the Grammy of 1989.

 

[WildStyle]

what I mean is that james does not say they were in the grammy of new york, what he says is that he flew to new york to spend some time with michael "after" the grammy (without specifying when exactly). He does not says that the grammy was in New York.
that is, michael after the grammy of los angeles 1989 could catch a flight the next day or when it was (because it does not say when it was) and met with james which says he flew to new york where they spent some time together.
and yes, michael went to the grammy of los angeles


https://youtu.be/JuER1uDYuTQ

https://youtu.be/KVnSuk7MTz0

You're making this far more complicated than it actually is. It is clear that Safechuck confused the year that he actually visited Michael in New York. And neither of those youtube clips are the Grammy awards.

Here he is in NEW YORK visiting Michael after he PERFORMED at the GRAMMY'S... in 1988.

 

[1nn5]

There's the Grammy moments of MJ (from the Official channel of the Grammy)
After 1988, he appeared in 1993.
https://youtu.be/7Nk_iUDyeIQ

 

[1nn5]

You're making this far more complicated than it actually is. It is clear that Safechuck confused the year that he actually visited Michael in New York. And neither of those youtube clips are the Grammy awards.

A new Speed_Demon87

 

[Lovepeace1]

You're making this far more complicated than it actually is. It is clear that Safechuck confused the year that he actually visited Michael in New York. And neither of those youtube clips are the Grammy awards.

Here he is in NEW YORK visiting Michael after he PERFORMED at the GRAMMY'S... in 1988.

is that you are confusing two dates. the first is in 1988 in which safechuck came with his mother to new york because he already had a relationship with michael but abuses had not yet occurred. and the second time that I travel to new york was in 1989 where he met with michael according to him. that is, there are 2 different new york dates and you are mixing them.

 

[john13th]

No, first of all, yes Michael was on grammy 1989 in los ángeles , he won an award for leave me alone video, he WAS on grammy this year. Who say that he did not was there?? He won a award this year (1989).
On the other hand safechuck in his lawsuit Talk about grammy of 1989 not about 1988. And he says that after grammy in feb.1989 in los ángeles Michael and him flew to new York to spent time together after grammy.

Read here:

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/artists/michael-jackson

And here:

https://es.scribd.com/document/324761203/James-Safechuck-September-19-2016-Second-Amended-Complaint

It wasn't even at the Grammy Awards 1989 he won for Leave Me Alone. It was in 1990, February 21th:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32nd_Annual_Grammy_Awards?wprov=sfla1

 

[KOPV]

The Grand Canyon thing is interesting. In Wade's emails to his mother there is this... "How did it happen that I ended up staying with Michael and you guys went to the grand canyon?" "You guys came back to the ranch? And then the family left the ranch together?"

Does anybody know of any of the Robson's perhaps posting any photos from the grand canyon trip anywhere on the internet before Wade made his claims? Would there be a way to get a visitors log from the grand canyon (if such a thing even exists)? This was almost 30 years ago so that may be along shot, but perhaps worth a try.

I've been trying to see if I can find any pics of Wade at the Grand Canyon, but he went.. court documents state it, his mom did.. If my memory serves me right, she commented on it twice without question and once stating 'my family' and simply not saying that they left Wade behind.

 

[Spike J]

MJ did not attend the grammys on 89. He wasnt nominated on any big categories to make sense of his presence: Remember, this is peak MJ bad era and he is THE celebrity/name on the industry so he had to have something to do to attend an awards show, that's how it works to this day.. He had no new record out and wasn't promoting any work related thing. He had just finished the bad album cycle of promo with the last show of the bad tour in january and by march 89 Frank Dileo was getting fired. He is already planning his new business ventures and dangerous album at this point. Resting and enjoying his brand new ranch, no train station yet btw lol

 

[Lovepeace1]

It wasn't even at the Grammy Awards 1989 he won for Leave Me Alone. It was in 1990, February 21th:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32nd_Annual_Grammy_Awards?wprov=sfla1

I've put the grammy link before.
look at it there and you'll see that it comes out in 1989. Maybe there are also errors in wikepedia or in the grammy page because one says one thing And another says other thing

look at the link there It says that it was n 1989:


https://www.grammy.com/grammys/artists/michael-jackson

 

[WildStyle]

is that you are confusing two dates. the first is in 1988 in which safechuck came with his mother to new york because he already had a relationship with michael but abuses had not yet occurred. and the second time that I travel to new york was in 1989 where he met with michael according to him. that is, there are 2 different new york dates and you are mixing them.

Take a step back and think of what scenario actually makes more sense. That Safechuck is confusing 1989 for 1988 the year that Michael actually PERFORMED at the Grammy's which were held in NEW YORK. Or that Michael made some random trip to a New York hotel in 1989 after the Grammy's (which he did not even attend) and sent for Safechuck so he could molest him there. Use common sense.

 

[terrell]

I've put the grammy link before.
look at it there and you'll see that it comes out in 1989. Maybe there are also errors in wikepedia or in the grammy page because one says one thing And another says other thing

look at the link there It says that it was n 1989:


https://www.grammy.com/grammys/artists/michael-jackson

I have this show on tape. MJ was at the 1988 show. U2 cleaned up. MJ performed Man in the mirror and TWYMMF. He was not at the 1989 show. Plus, Whitney Houston was running behind MJ heavy that year even going with him to be honored at Fisk College with Liza Millinni and Liz Taylor.

 

[KOPV]

You're wrong. Michael did NOT attend the 1989 Grammy awards ceremony regardless of whether or not he won an award. He was not there. Safechuck says he flew to New York by himself to spend time with Michael after he PERFORMED at the Grammy's. This happened in 1988. He's mixing up his dates.

Now I'm seeing that the photo of Safechuck, his mother and Michael at the United Negro College Fund was actually taken on March 10th while Michael was still in New York. So this is definitely the trip he is talking about. However he says he flew up there to be with Michael alone, yet his mum is there in the picture with them. So clearly his mum came too. So there's another lie.

do you remember if he said only he flew to see Michael or insinuated it?


I have a DVD (bootleg from back in the day) that supposed to have every Grammy appearance he ever made, it is edited to only show Michaels part of every Grammy (including sitting in the crowd shots) and there is nothing from that year.. If someone went through the time to do every other year (including crowd shots) I would think it would make the footage but human error can happen.





Who makes there 'PS's' longer than the actual body of the message? lol! SMH at myself

 

[WildStyle]

The 1989 Grammy's were held on February 22nd. I'm trying to pin down Michael's whereabouts around that time. He had just finished the Bad Tour on January 27th. I have him in Stockton California on February 7th visiting an elementary school after a school shooting. Then I have him at Circus Vargas in Santa Barbara on March 15th. The 2300 Jackson Street video was apparently shot in March 1989 as well. Seems he's just hanging around California during this time.

 

[WildStyle]

do you remember if he said only he flew to see Michael or insinuated it?

It was not insinuated. He actually said he travelled by himself.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Imo its more logical to think he mixed the year up. But it is a provern lie he didnt go there himself like he claimed

 

[KOPV]

It was not insinuated. He actually said he travelled by himself.

Well, that's a good one to note too... just to add for dramatic affect when people share that info, do you have a good pic that is for sure from that specific trip? Hey maybe we can make a meme out of it..

 

[Lovepeace1]

Maybe there is an error as to when the grammy was on the grammy website itself, if it was in another year when the grammy awards obviously on the grammy page is wrong because it says it was in 1989 when Michael won for leave me alone .

maybe james could be confusing the American music awards that were in 1989 with the grammy and maybe was in new york 1989 after those awards.

or maybe he travel in 1990 and has completely wrong in the date because the dates at the grammy website there says that the ceremony was in 1989.

there are 3 dates
-grammy 1988 where he went with his mother to see michael but the abuse had not happened yet.
-American music awards of 1989 where michael went to those awards in 1989 and maybe james can refer to them in the trip just for having confused them with the grammy.
-and grammy of 1990 that gets confused when looking at the grammy's own page because it implies that it was in 1989.

 

[WildStyle]

Maybe there is an error as to when the grammy was on the grammy website itself, if it was in another year when the grammy awards obviously on the grammy page is wrong because it says it was in 1989 when he won by leave me alone .
maybe james could be confusing the American music awards that were in 1989 with the grammy and maybe if I travel in 1989 after those awards to new york, or maybe I travel in 1989 and 1990 and has completely wrong in the date to look at the grammy website (since there says that the ceremony was in 1989) and finally in the first grammy of 1988 if it seems that after they saw in New York and went with his mother. there are 3 dates,
grammy 1988 where he went with his mother to see michael but the abuse had not happened yet.
American music awards of 1989 where michael if he went to those awards in 1989 and maybe james can refer to them in the trip just for having confused them with the grammy.
and grammy of 1990 that gets confused when looking at the grammy's own page because it implies that it was in 1989.

You're making far too many excuses for a man that says he was molested in a train station that didn't exist. He's very clear about what he says in his complaint. He simply mixed up the date and got caught in another lie.

 

[WildStyle]

The 1989 Grammy's were held on February 22nd. I'm trying to pin down Michael's whereabouts around that time. He had just finished the Bad Tour on January 27th. I have him in Stockton California on February 7th visiting an elementary school after a school shooting. Then I have him at Circus Vargas in Santa Barbara on March 15th. The 2300 Jackson Street video was apparently shot in March 1989 as well. Seems he's just hanging around California during this time.

Then we have the Soul Train Awards April 13th... in Los Angelas. He began work on Decade/Dangerous in studios in LA not long after. Still nothing about a random trip to New York around this time.