Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona;4249313 said:
Can you find out if it originally was planed in that short lenghth in norway or if it was planed longer?

Maybe you can find the official announcement from the tv station were they say how long they want to show it.

But when you can't understand the language it will be difficult.
I wish I'd saved screenshots the first moment I found it on their schedule, but who knew it would be important later. Yeah, I definitely don't know any Norwegian. Google Translate is my friend, lol.

So far I found an article from March 3rd stating that it would air on NRK 2 at 22:50 on the 10th and I took a screenshot of the very top of that article back on the 5th, so as of the 5th it was planned for that time, at least.... wait... oh, here's more, can't believe I actually found something:

Leaving Neverland publiseres i NRK TV søndag 10. mars klokken 06.00, og vises på NRK 2 samme kveld klokken 22.50... NRK skal vise TV-versjonen av filmen og den er på 90 x 90 minutter.

Leaving Neverland will be published in NRK TV on Sunday 10 March at 06:00, and will be shown on NRK 2 the same evening at 22.50 ... NRK will show the TV version of the film and it is 90 x 90 minutes.


But the article says published March 3 and updated March 8. Hmm. Don't know what part they updated. Do you suppose an archive site would have an earlier version? I'll try to find out.

http://www.nrk.no/presse/nrk-skal-vise-leaving-neverland-1.14449614
 
"Michael Jackson and Wade Robson: The true Story" has now over 4,4 Million views from over 600 000 before the airing on HBO.
The channel itself has now 8306 subscribers what is good for a channel which existed only 7 weeks and has only two videos uploaded.
 
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this video gave me hope in humanity..


I talked to him on YouTube and I gave him the links to the Razorfist videos, because those are just a must watch and also Thomson's fact bomb article. He told me he will check it all out.

We have a new one in the family ;)
 
I talked to him on YouTube and I gave him the links to the Razorfist videos, because those are just a must watch and also Thomson's fact bomb article. He told me he will check it all out.

We have a new one in the family ;)

He must watch the "The Billion Dollar Lie" and the newest video from the Michael Jackson Innocent Project too and should visit the channel "Mean Machine" who really needs support!
 
Further information today from the Center for Great Apes, which has apparently had a lot of enquiries about Bubbles in recent days.

Thank you so much to the Center for clarifying.

THE TRUTH ABOUT BUBBLES

Recently we have received many inquiries about Bubbles, who was sent to the Center for Great Apes for sanctuary care in 2005. The Center’s mission and primary purpose is the health and welfare of these highly intelligent and social chimpanzees and orangutans. Bubbles, like all our chimpanzees, lives in a social group, protected and engaged in the many wonderful ways great apes interact. Even though many media gossip sources have invented false stories about Bubbles, he is in good health, receives generous support from the Estate of Michael Jackson, and will remain away from those who would exploit him.

Currently there are a rash of online articles about Bubbles, a resident chimpanzee at the Center for Great Apes. Many false statements have been made by online media sites and television programs, so it’s important to state the facts clearly.

Most of the articles written about Bubbles are wild conjectures or false gossip. In order to generate headlines, quotes have been fabricated with no source cited, and some of them have falsely been attributed to me and to members of our staff at the Center for Great Apes.

Bubbles has been cared for and nurtured at our sanctuary by our dedicated staff since 2005. It wasn’t until after Michael Jackson’s death in 2009 that we suddenly received more than 100 requests to photograph or film Bubbles. Our policy is always to choose what is best for our apes providing them with a stable environment, so nearly all of the media requests were turned down.

Bubbles arrived at the sanctuary in excellent health and with normal affiliative behaviors with other chimpanzees. He has been a well-adjusted member in his group with six other chimps. We have seen no evidence of former neglect or abuse. He genuinely likes people as well as his chimpanzee companions.

The following statements that have been made in the media and online press are 100% false:

1. “…staff at the animal sanctuary reportedly won’t even show (Bubbles) photos of Jackson in case it upsets him”….and… “the keepers avoid any reminders of his old life on Jackson’s Neverland Ranch. Centre co-founder Patti Ragan said workers never show Bubbles photos of Jackson in case they make him “angry or depressed.” RADAR ONLINE (March 10, 2019)

This is a total fabrication. Bubbles has seen photos of Michael Jackson as well as his videos and has not been upset by them. And no caregivers or office staff members at the Center for Great Apes have talked to a reporter about Bubbles.

2. “Bubbles once tried to commit suicide …” (The Times of India)

There is absolutely no truth in this statement, and it’s just ridiculous. This is a concocted headline we assume was meant to sell papers.

3. “Bubbles is the richest monkey in the world because Michael Jackson left him $2 million in his will.” (Fox News anchor Bill O’Reilly 2010) and just this month, “…perhaps most famously, Michael Jackson, … reportedly gifted his beloved chimpanzee Bubbles an estimated $2 million upon his death in 2009” (GARAGE website March 2019)

The truth is that Bubbles was not named in Jackson’s will. However, when Bubbles first arrived at the sanctuary, an agreement was signed by a Jackson family member pledging to cover his annual care costs each year. And, for every one of the 14 years Bubbles has lived at the Center for Great Apes, MJJ Productions and the Jackson Estate have honored this agreement and sent funds to help us care for Bubbles. In addition to that, the Jackson Estate gave a generous gift to help the sanctuary expand our chimpanzee habitats for larger spaces and additional chimpanzees who need a home. (And Mr. O’Reilly, Bubbles is not a “monkey”… chimpanzees are great apes!)

Great apes are amazing animals who are intelligent and sentient. The Center for Great Apes’ mission is to provide permanent and compassionate care for chimpanzees and orangutans with good nutrition and health care, large spaces for normal activity, and companionship with their own species.

It is our hope that those who loved Bubbles know that he is happy and well-cared for, and we invite everyone to visit our website where they can learn more about Bubbles and all our wonderful chimpanzees and orangutans.

Patti Ragan
Founder

(Info. sent by email to Center donors)
 
More on the runtime question in Norway. The article from NRK is not in archive.org, so I don't think there's a way to find the original version (to know if it said 90 mins back on the 3rd). I decided to write an email to the article's author, to see if he/she remembers what info was updated on the 8th. Figured it was worth a try. I got an auto-response, though, saying they're back in the office on "Wednesday". Ufff. Hopefully that was today and not next week. It's 1:30 in the morning there right now.

UPDATE: Just found this. Dated March 6th (the day part 1 premiered in the UK):

I den veldig lange filmen, der vi så den redigerte versjonen på 2 x 90 minutter...


In the very long film, where we watched the edited version of 2 x 90 minutes...

http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/bodde-det-et-pedofilt-popikon-pa-neverland/70844786

-And this-

Last updated 17:58, 6.March
Filmen vises på NRK 2 søndag 10. mars klokken 22.50. Legges ut på NRK TV-nett for strømming klokken 06.00 samme morgen. Den versjonen NRK har kjøpt er den tre timer lange TV-versjonen i to deler. I USA er det firetimerversjonen som er blitt vist.

The film is shown on NRK 2 on Sunday 10 March at 22.50. Posted on NRK TV network for streaming at 06:00 the same morning. The version NRK has bought is the three-hour TV version in two parts. In the United States, the four-hour version has been shown.
http://www.dagsavisen.no/kultur/leaving-neverland-eventyrets-vonde-bakside-1.1289339


So that's 3 sources now, the other being http://www.nrk.no/presse/nrk-skal-vise-leaving-neverland-1.14449614 Guys, it looks like a 2x90 minute version, as was shown in Norway, must really have existed prior to the UK airing.
 
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that last video gave me tears. All ppl have to do is look for the truth and not go blindfold by media. Think on your own.
 
That guy (luigi?) who did the video, I like his Wade Robson impression :clapping:

Guyysss...I feel like we're cruising along on a truth train and I don't know about you but I'm enjoying the ride. I feel such appreciation for everyone being so thorough and on the ball with everything, it's cool to witness
 
So where are your guys' hope level that the truth will prevail for Michael and his legacy?

Yeah, I may be fishing for some optimism because at the current time - I have none.
 
So where are your guys' hope level that the truth will prevail for Michael and his legacy?

Yeah, I may be fishing for some optimism because at the current time - I have none.

Unless one of his accusers come out and admit to lying, I feel like truth will never prevail. I feel like we will have to continue to defend Michael forever. I don't think a rebutal documentary (if there is ever is one, which I doubt) will change much or get any coverage from the anti MJ media.
 
Unless one of his accusers come out and admit to lying, I feel like truth will never prevail. I feel like we will have to continue to defend Michael forever. I don't think a rebutal documentary (if there is ever is one, which I doubt) will change much or get any coverage from the anti MJ media.

Sadly, this is where I'm at, too. Like I said earlier, I don't know how any fans made it through 1993/1994 and 2003-2005. I don't. Some willpower of steel you fans have.

Massive respect to the longtime Michael Jackson fans.
 
DangerUs'91;4249343 said:
So where are your guys' hope level that the truth will prevail for Michael and his legacy?

Yeah, I may be fishing for some optimism because at the current time - I have none.
As much of a setback it has been these past few days, I still feel the truth will prevail and have optimism.
He will always have people who thinks he is guilty regardless of the truth. He was found innocent in 2005 and people then thought he was guilty.
People thought it was all over for him after 2005 yet he was able to get a standing ovation everywhere he went and he was able to sellout 50 shows completely.

Im truly surprised at how it hasn’t been as bad as I thought it would be all across the board.
The best thing when it comes to him in my opinion are that
1) he has such a huge dedicated fan base that knows he is innocent
2) he has a casual fan base who wants to see his innocence and if you give them the information in video form they will sway towards his side.
3) the fact that most are not here for them going after someone who is dead.

I honestly feel when they get exposed, he will do so much damage to the entertainment industry.
There will so many organizations and people who have their credibility tarnished over this.
 
So where are your guys' hope level that the truth will prevail for Michael and his legacy?

Yeah, I may be fishing for some optimism because at the current time - I have none.


We may never get to the 100% truth, but all this brilliant debunking of LN is making me feel a lot more hopeful, especially since some more media outlets are picking it up now. If this carries on as effectively as it is I feel like the whole thing will go up in smoke. Feels like a game of jenga right now, each bit of BS revealed is like removing a block and adding it to the top. A few more and it crashes down! Imagine if way more BS is uncovered over the next few days/weeks, then imagine some bigger media sources pick it up. This could all work in our favour tbh, its an opportunity to not only debunk LN but all the other crap that people quietly believed all this time. You notice how its not just the truth about LN coming out but all the other stuff with it? :yes:
 
Im gonna ask this again cuz It never gets answerd lol!


Did James REALLY claim that they honeymooned at Euro Disney in 1988????


Someone answer me haha or do we all not know? was this made up? I do remember a paris mentioning in the doc but didn't tie it together
 
Since some more media outlets are picking it up now.

Are they, though?

I'm sadly not sure if this is the case. The media would have to;

1.) Reverse course of the last 25 years on Jackson coverage.
2.) Admit failure.
3.) Challenge/accuse "victims" in the #MeToo era.

That trifecta (to me) guarantees that any course reversal is not possible.

But if there are more media outlets picking it up, that's awesome. I do wonder that even if this happens, the public will be too sold on the previous story to consider it.
 
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http://www.bsworld.com/?p=456
 
on twitter john ziegler celebrates this joy robson interview from 2011 where she praises mj. i mean, i celebrate it too, but they say someone took it down and try to destroy it from the internet. but part of the interview was even used in the "Michael Jackson And Wade Robson: The Real Story", right? Where Joy says:

Joy Robson: "[Wade and Chantal] have always been busy and I think boredom breeds trouble. […] My kids worked every weekend, every school vacation, their birthday parties were backstage, their Christmas parties were backstage. No regrets."


deleted video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmhTWusqqc

Twitter from John Ziegler:
https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1105960060843225088?s=09

reupped video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0ExeUtVSt4


Am I wrong or is this video nothing new? I am sure some people downloaded it before it got blocked. so i dont understand why this is so shocking.
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its really time consuming to follow up everythings going on here and on twitter and instagram lol

is there any twitter account or website which is really up to date? i am looking for a clean fact orientated overview. I follow a few twitter account:

Pearljr
TheMJCast
MJVibe
KerryWard
caramella
Ivy
Mary
Green Grass
Phoenix
Kes
andjustice4some
Justice for the Falsely Accused
Damien Shields
Brandi Jackson
Jolanda
Taj
TSCM


So you see I am well informed. but I dont have the time at the moment to scroll through this huuuughe newsfeeds averyday. And I also have less time to read and follow up here.

So just to make sure: I appreciate all the work from all the mentioned people and all the other wonderful people who are presenting facts. I only need one account which keeps me up to date with facts and no comments or discussions.

A dayly "summary" that takes about 5 minutes to read/see/hear would be so amazing!

I hope you know what I mean but maybe there is non site like this.

MJInnocent.com is great!! But I wished they would update it more regulary. No offense tho!!

I WANT to be up to date every day. So I also want to be informed about for example that Wade removed the "sexual abuse victim" Amanda. Or about the removed Joy Robson interview from 2011 which re-appeared today.

Thanks guys!

Lets keep fighting since the last centurys. We are on the right path!

LOVE
 
myosotis;4249302 said:
Seems to be info. from Mike Smallcombe (Making Michael)

LEAVING NEVERLAND accuser Wade Robson "lied about more than the Michael Jackson abuse" and here is the proof.
By STEFAN KYRIAZIS

The two-part HBO documentary has divided opinions. The harrowing testimony from Robson and James Safechuck is compelling but there has been a huge backlash at the lack of any other witnesses, both for and against. Filmmaker Dan Reed has dismissed criticisms: "What is the other side of the story? That Michael Jackson was a great entertainer and a great guy?" He says Robson's original 2005 denial of abuse was rooted in his devotion to his idol. Yet, there is evidence Robson lied repeatedly in the past, was viewed as an unreliable witness by a judge and some of his latest allegations are not even based on his own memories.

UK journalist Mike Smallcombe is the author of the biography Making Michael and spoke exclusively to Express Online.

He said: "Unless you are in the Michael Jackson fan community, or a journalist who has researched the subject, you aren’t going to know about the publicly available information which would have formed part of Jackson’s defence. Viewers of the documentary are essentially the jury – but Leaving Neverland only gave them the prosecution’s side.

"In 2012, Robson had a nervous breakdown, triggered, he said, by an obsessive quest for success. His career, in his own words, began to “crumble.”

"That same year, Robson began shopping a book that claimed he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson. No publisher picked it up. In the draft version of the book, Robson called himself a 'master of deception.'"

"Robson filed a $1.5 billion civil lawsuit/creditor’s claim in 2013. He first filed it under seal (a procedure allowing sensitive or confidential information to be filed with a court without becoming a matter of public record), in the hope of reaching a financial settlement with the Jackson Estate.

"To be clear, the judge ruled that Jackson’s companies were not liable for any possible actions by Jackson; he did not rule on the credibility of the men’s allegations. But the trial judge in Robson’s initial case against the Estate disregarded his sworn statements on a summary judgment motion.

"Jackson estate attorney Howard Weitzman said Robson was “caught lying repeatedly” in the dismissed litigations.

"Weitzman added: 'The trial judge found one of Robson’s lies so incredible that the trial judge disregarded Robson’s sworn declaration and found that no rational trier of fact could possibly believe Robson’s sworn statements.'"

"During his lawsuit against Jackson’s Estate, Robson was ordered by the trial court to produce all documents about written communications with anyone about his supposed abuse.

"In one email, he listed over 20 different questions to his mother asking her about the specific details of his interactions with Jackson. Some of these included: 'Can you explain all that you remember of that first night at Neverland? What happened when we drove in what did we do? And that first weekend at Neverland?'

"Despite telling the detailed story of his first night at Neverland in the documentary as if it is his own memory, at his deposition, Robson admitted that he 'did not know' if his memory of that night 'came from (his) own recollection or it was told to (him) by someone else."

"Another email showed that Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named him and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true.’

"Weitzman said Robson was also trying to hide evidence before his cases were dismissed.

"Weitzman said: ''Robson lied under oath and stated that, other than one brief email in late 2012, he had had “no written communications” with anyone (other than his attorneys) about his newly-concocted allegations that he was abused by Jackson. This turned out to be a complete and utter lie. Robson had actually shopped a book about his allegations in the year prior to filing his lawsuit—a book he tried to hide from the Estate.'

"Weitzman said Robson’s book told a completely different story of how he was first abused by Jackson. When asked about some of these discrepancies at his deposition, Robson explained that his memories had 'evolved' since writing the draft of the book in late 2012 and early 2013.

"Dan Reed said Robson and Safechuck “have no financial interest in the documentary whatsoever”. But both are in debt to Jackson’s Estate by significant sums. Robson owes the Estate almost $70,000 dollars in court costs, and Safechuck owes the Estate several thousand dollars as well. Robson and Safechuck are pursuing appeals of the judgments against them, appeals that will probably be heard this year."

MAKING MICHAEL BY MIKE SMALLCOMBE IS OUT NOW

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...son-abuse-lie-true-Wade-Robson-Safechuck-film

HOLY SH**

So he doesn't remember, but in the Doc he recalls it all so clearly lol

This info will never reach the mass public from the garbage media
 
G-B_24;4249372 said:
HOLY SH**

So he doesn't remember, but in the Doc he recalls it all so clearly lol

This info will never reach the mass public from the garbage media

I think this is the most important part:

Robson filed a $1.5 billion civil lawsuit/creditor&#8217;s claim in 2013. He first filed it under seal (a procedure allowing sensitive or confidential information to be filed with a court without becoming a matter of public record), in the hope of reaching a financial settlement with the Jackson Estate.

So when someone says that Robison is after justice and not money, you can quote this. That along with bringing up the FBI.
 
Im gonna ask this again cuz It never gets answerd lol!


Did James REALLY claim that they honeymooned at Euro Disney in 1988????


Someone answer me haha or do we all not know? was this made up? I do remember a paris mentioning in the doc but didn't tie it together

I don't know where this came from, I can't seem to find it in Leaving Neverland. Does anybody know?
 
So Marys very important video about the simularitys between James/Wades Story and Victor G. Book is now blockt for maaaany people, because of its adult content.
Means in general for everyone with no youtube account.

Interesting that people should not see or refuse to see this video but Leaving Neverland what is uploaded all over youtube is fully ok and no problem to watch for everyone!!!
(I would refuse to watch the video with account when I get this warning).
I can see that the views from this video since I visit it a few days ago didn't really got higher. It was definitly over 100 000 views back then and now it has over 124 000 views


I think MJ haters and Dan/Wade/James are behind this.
They have reported the video to youtube and it got blocked.

This is really bad for us.

Mary should be informed about this and try to reupload the important content in a maybe reedited version.
 
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Good video, where someone argues very well. He explaines why you don't have to watch the documentery to defend MJ and to know Wade is lying:

 
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