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Dangerous album - late 1990 configuration

Note that the 'Dangerous' song (on the late 1990/early 1991 configuration) was the original version of the song (with the walls collapsing).

Also, 'In The Closet' (on that configuration) was the solo version of the song.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Note that the 'Dangerous' song (on the late 1990/early 1991 configuration) was the original version of the song (with the walls collapsing).

Also, 'In The Closet' (on that configuration) was the solo version of the song.
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Both song could have been different than what has leaked. iirc the DAT leak's from mid 1990.
 
Fuzball said:
  1. Jam
  2. In The Closet
  3. Remember The Time
  4. Someone Put Your Hand Out
  5. Black Or White
  6. Who Is It
  7. Keep The Faith
  8. Gone Too Soon
  9. Dangerous
  10. Serious Effect
  11. Give In To Me
  12. For All Time
  13. If You Don't Love Me
  14. Monkey Business


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I don't think it's from 1990. Teddy didn't come into the project on a recording basis until February 1991.

My personal theory is that the old tracklist - and the minidisc/DAT it was in - came from August 1991. SPYHO had percussion done later into August, the mix for Who Is It comes from August 2nd, 1991, Dangerous comes from March 29th, 1991, Earth Song - which SPYHO was briefly swapped out for in the DAT leak - has a mix present that comes from April 24th, 1991, and If You Don't Love Me was last worked on around June 5th, 1991, presumably the same mix included on the DAT leak.

Since Can't Let Her Get Away and She Drives Me Wild were in primitive forms around the same time, it's highly possible this tracklist was formulated before the songs were considered complete enough to include.
 
SeriousFX said:
I don't think it's from 1990. Teddy didn't come into the project on a recording basis until February 1991.

My personal theory is that the old tracklist - and the minidisc/DAT it was in - came from August 1991. SPYHO had percussion done later into August, the mix for Who Is It comes from August 2nd, 1991, Dangerous comes from March 29th, 1991, Earth Song - which SPYHO was briefly swapped out for in the DAT leak - has a mix present that comes from April 24th, 1991, and If You Don't Love Me was last worked on around June 5th, 1991, presumably the same mix included on the DAT leak.

Since Can't Let Her Get Away and She Drives Me Wild were in primitive forms around the same time, it's highly possible this tracklist was formulated before the songs were considered complete enough to include.
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Teddy was on board at the end of 1990 with RTT being recorded possibly in August according to the notation below

418733-350746871632457-1660573718-n.jpg
 
Fuzball said:
  1. Jam
  2. In The Closet
  3. Remember The Time
  4. Someone Put Your Hand Out
  5. Black Or White
  6. Who Is It
  7. Keep The Faith
  8. Gone Too Soon
  9. Dangerous
  10. Serious Effect
  11. Give In To Me
  12. For All Time
  13. If You Don't Love Me
  14. Monkey Business


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This is very close to the leaked Dangerous Demos DAT. I wonder what the 1990 version of SPYHO sounds like.
 
SeriousFX said:
I don't think it's from 1990. Teddy didn't come into the project on a recording basis until February 1991.

My personal theory is that the old tracklist - and the minidisc/DAT it was in - came from August 1991. SPYHO had percussion done later into August, the mix for Who Is It comes from August 2nd, 1991, Dangerous comes from March 29th, 1991, Earth Song - which SPYHO was briefly swapped out for in the DAT leak - has a mix present that comes from April 24th, 1991, and If You Don't Love Me was last worked on around June 5th, 1991, presumably the same mix included on the DAT leak.

Since Can't Let Her Get Away and She Drives Me Wild were in primitive forms around the same time, it's highly possible this tracklist was formulated before the songs were considered complete enough to include.
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Source for the mix dates for Who Is It and Dangerous (original version)? ES and IYDLM were from Bottrells twitter if I recall correctly.
 
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BlackAnon said:
Teddy was on board at the end of 1990 with RTT being recorded possibly in August according to the notation below

418733-350746871632457-1660573718-n.jpg
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I doubt if this is genuine at all... Looks like they were all written by one hand and one person rather than two as it suggests. And deffo does not look like MJ's handwriting.

Bernard Belle wrote the lyrics to Remember the time as per Teddy Riley in this Red Bull Academy interview to Michael's scratch vocal ideas & melody: https://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/teddy-riley-lecture
 
Eventidescape1 said:
I doubt if this is genuine at all... Looks like they were all written by one hand and one person rather than two as it suggests. And deffo does not look like MJ's handwriting.

Bernard Belle wrote the lyrics to Remember the time as per Teddy Riley in this Red Bull Academy interview to Michael's scratch vocal ideas & melody: https://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/teddy-riley-lecture
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Could be one person writing it as having too many different handwritings would make it sloppy. Who knows. Could also be personal reference for 1 person
 
BlackAnon said:
Could be one person writing it as having too many different handwritings would make it sloppy. Who knows. Could also be personal reference for 1 person
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As per my other bits of research, they were at Record One for a month before moving to Larrabee North, which was a new branch of Larrabee that opened in November 1990. In that case, not likely that they were already on the project by August 1990.
If true, then Riley would have been in the middle of the Guy album The Future too.
 
Eventidescape1 said:
As per my other bits of research, they were at Record One for a month before moving to Larrabee North, which was a new branch of Larrabee that opened in November 1990. In that case, not likely that they were already on the project by August 1990.
If true, then Riley would have been in the middle of the Guy album The Future too.
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There's also that Gearslutz forum page, where an engineer mentioned that Teddy arrived at Los Angeles from New York around February 1991. Before then, he had already cobbled together a dozen instrumental grooves including what would become "Remember The Time" (also "Ghosts," "In The Closet," "Why You Wanna Trip On Me," "Blood On The Dance Floor," and "Joy," among other tracks).
 
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SeriousFX said:
There's also that Gearslutz forum page, where an engineer mentioned that Teddy arrived at Los Angeles from Virgina around February 1991. Before then, he had already cobbled together a dozen instrumental grooves including what would become "Remember The Time" (also "Ghosts," "In The Closet," "Why You Wanna Trip On Me," and "Joy," among other tracks).
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Ghosts I believe came later than that, or at least the final recording did. Because that was recorded at Teddy’s Future Records studio (opened post-Dangerous)…
 
Eventidescape1 said:
Ghosts I believe came later than that, or at least the final recording did. Because that was recorded at Teddy’s Future Records studio (opened post-Dangerous)…
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Technically, Ghosts as we know it came into form then. But Ghosts - the instrumental groove before all those overdubs - seems to originate from the original dozen grooves Teddy bought to Record One. Not only are the drum/percussive tracks identical to the earlier Dangerous-era recordings by Teddy, but it uses the same "Tokyo drift" SFX utilized by "Remember The Time" and "Blood On The Dancefloor."
 
SeriousFX said:
Technically, Ghosts as we know it came into form then. But Ghosts - the instrumental groove before all those overdubs - seems to originate from the original dozen grooves Teddy bought to Record One. Not only are the drum/percussive tracks identical to the earlier Dangerous-era recordings by Teddy, but it uses the same "Tokyo drift" SFX utilized by "Remember The Time" and "Blood On The Dancefloor."
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They may sound similar, the drums, but they did lots of re-working of Ghosts though in the 2 years before its release. Others like Rob Hoffman, Andrew Scheps and a couple others who worked with MJ in the HIStory/Blood era are credited with programming the drums….

In that case it’s hard to tell if there are proper traces of the Dangerous era in it. Even with some similar effects and sounds to Dangerous.
 
Eventidescape1 said:
As per my other bits of research, they were at Record One for a month before moving to Larrabee North, which was a new branch of Larrabee that opened in November 1990. In that case, not likely that they were already on the project by August 1990.
If true, then Riley would have been in the middle of the Guy album The Future too.
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Wasn’t Teddy hired in June of 1990 though? If so, then it’s likely RTT was being recorded in August the same year. Teddy probably flew to LA officially in February of 91 to start the redrafting of the album
 
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In the same vein as Streetwalker, the 1990 configuration could’ve been the songs presented to the label before beginning work on them and removing weaker songs and replacing them. Nothing was probably mixed at the time of this
 
SeriousFX said:
Not only are the drum/percussive tracks identical to the earlier Dangerous-era recordings by Teddy, but it uses the same "Tokyo drift" SFX utilized by "Remember The Time" and "Blood On The Dancefloor."
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Is that the sound effect that happens every 15th beat? If so, I never knew what it was called.
 
BlackAnon said:
Wasn’t Teddy hired in June of 1990 though? If so, then it’s likely RTT was being recorded in August the same year. Teddy probably flew to LA officially in February of 91 to start the redrafting of the album
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Well, most sources I read point to 1991 though rather than 1990. Even people like Matt Forger and Brad Sundberg recalled Teddy Riley coming in near the end of the project… which makes more sense for February 1991 rather than June ‘90 (that would be the middle of the project rather!)
 
Fuzball said:
  1. Jam
  2. In The Closet
  3. Remember The Time
  4. Someone Put Your Hand Out
  5. Black Or White
  6. Who Is It
  7. Keep The Faith
  8. Gone Too Soon
  9. Dangerous
  10. Serious Effect
  11. Give In To Me
  12. For All Time
  13. If You Don't Love Me
  14. Monkey Business


Click to expand...
The only song from this list that should've made it on the album is For All Time.

The rest were all upgraded.
 
Teddy Riley started working on the 'Dangerous' album in 1990 (June), not in 1991.

Author Joseph Vogel provides a pretty accurate timeline of the events:

"On June 6, 1990, producer/musician Teddy Riley was supposed to be at his friend and fellow band member's birthday party. Instead, he spent the night at a Soundworks Studio on 23rd Avenue in Queens, working on grooves for none other than the King of Pop, Michael Jackson ... The rhythm track Riley worked on that night was aggressive, ominous, menacing. But it had no words, no title, and no melody. The following Saturday he was on his way to Neverland Ranch to meet Michael Jackson. Riley was nervous. Jackson had already tried out a handful of people to replace legendary producer, Quincy Jones, including L.A. Reid, Babyface and Bryan Loren. None stayed on ... Over the subsequent months, Jackson and Riley began working feverishly on a variety of tracks, sometimes separately, sometimes together at Larrabee Studios in Los Angeles" (Joseph Vogel)

So, in 1990, Teddy Riley was working on 2 different albums (i.e., 'The Future' album, and the 'Dangerous' album which was his priority).
 
mj_frenzy said:
Teddy Riley started working on the 'Dangerous' album in 1990 (June), not in 1991.

Author Joseph Vogel provides a pretty accurate timeline of the events:

"On June 6, 1990, producer/musician Teddy Riley was supposed to be at his friend and fellow band member's birthday party. Instead, he spent the night at a Soundworks Studio on 23rd Avenue in Queens, working on grooves for none other than the King of Pop, Michael Jackson ... The rhythm track Riley worked on that night was aggressive, ominous, menacing. But it had no words, no title, and no melody. The following Saturday he was on his way to Neverland Ranch to meet Michael Jackson. Riley was nervous. Jackson had already tried out a handful of people to replace legendary producer, Quincy Jones, including L.A. Reid, Babyface and Bryan Loren. None stayed on ... Over the subsequent months, Jackson and Riley began working feverishly on a variety of tracks, sometimes separately, sometimes together at Larrabee Studios in Los Angeles" (Joseph Vogel)

So, in 1990, Teddy Riley was working on 2 different albums (i.e., 'The Future' album, and the 'Dangerous' album which was his priority).
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I still don't believe that though. This still does not add up. And here's why:

They were there recording at Record One Studios for the first month on the project before moving to the new Larrabee North Studios (opened November 1990, by the way)... Explain this then.

As per engineer Dave Way, he and Teddy were working solely in New York for the Guy projects etc. until then. When Teddy got the call to work with Michael, they prepared the demo at Soundtrack Studios. Not Soundworks studios.
It was AFTER that they moved to Los Angeles to work with Michael, in February 1991... From there, Dave Way decided to stay in Los Angeles and not to move with Teddy to Virginia where he had his new studio.

Source: https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=7184510&postcount=1004&s=6041cb4470702d2f681fadc709adcffa
 
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mj_frenzy said:
Teddy Riley started working on the 'Dangerous' album in 1990 (June), not in 1991.

Author Joseph Vogel provides a pretty accurate timeline of the events:

"On June 6, 1990, producer/musician Teddy Riley was supposed to be at his friend and fellow band member's birthday party. Instead, he spent the night at a Soundworks Studio on 23rd Avenue in Queens, working on grooves for none other than the King of Pop, Michael Jackson ... The rhythm track Riley worked on that night was aggressive, ominous, menacing. But it had no words, no title, and no melody. The following Saturday he was on his way to Neverland Ranch to meet Michael Jackson. Riley was nervous. Jackson had already tried out a handful of people to replace legendary producer, Quincy Jones, including L.A. Reid, Babyface and Bryan Loren. None stayed on ... Over the subsequent months, Jackson and Riley began working feverishly on a variety of tracks, sometimes separately, sometimes together at Larrabee Studios in Los Angeles" (Joseph Vogel)

So, in 1990, Teddy Riley was working on 2 different albums (i.e., 'The Future' album, and the 'Dangerous' album which was his priority).
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To sum up my earlier comment, this does not line up with engineer Dave Way's recollection of events as referenced.

Plus, The Future album was done at Soundtrack Studios, New York... It would not make sense to keep going between New York and Los Angeles for both projects and Michael wouldn't have been happy with that either, I don't think.
 
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SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Thanks for the info @Fuzball I love threads like this.

My big two takeaway's from this are Michael was set on 14 tracks from very early on and how did Serious Effect get that far along selection process? Surely there is a more complete version we haven't heard in the vault
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There's a video out there from 1991 that has MJ in the studio singing Serious Effect to himself. So it definitely was a track that seemed to have a chance to make the album.

I bet Teddy worked on a mix for Serious Effect and we haven't heard that yet.
 

What's interesting to me is this 1990 configuration includes GITM, but this video from 1991 (I'm guessing) doesn't and it includes BOTDF.

It feels like GITM was one of the songs that almost didn't make the record

It's interesting to me that people who made the album, were surprised Earth Song and Monkey Business didn't make it, although Earth Song doesn't appear on any configuration and Monkey Business wasn't a late removal like Blood and SPYHO.
 
Derek1984 said:
There's a video out there from 1991 that has MJ in the studio singing Serious Effect to himself. So it definitely was a track that seemed to have a chance to make the album.

I bet Teddy worked on a mix for Serious Effect and we probably haven't heard that yet.
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Yeah that's right, I think they were going over the Jam vocals and Michael starts beatboxing Serious Effect.
Surely there's a more complete version?
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:

What's interesting to me is this 1990 configuration includes GITM, but this video from 1991 (I'm guessing) doesn't and it includes BOTDF.

It feels like GITM was one of the songs that almost didn't make the record

It's interesting to me that people who made the album, were surprised Earth Song and Monkey Business didn't make it, although Earth Song doesn't appear on any configuration and Monkey Business wasn't a late removal like Blood and SPYHO.
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Blood they certainly would have thought was killer but it wasn't quite finished.

They tried to re-create the song at least twice but Michael preferred the original Teddy Riley DAT groove... That DAT version was transferred onto a multitrack by Matt Forger so Michael could sketch vocal and melody ideas... Michael gave it the title "Blood On The Dance Floor" then. But it didn't go beyond that version for Dangerous, apparently.
In '97, they also went back to the original Teddy groove to overdub vocals and recreate certain parts.
 
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