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Did Michael Jackson embrace Alternative/ indie and Techno??

Menna T-Allah

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I feel like there are some genres that Michael isn't credited for like most black artists who are trapped in the "pop, R&B circle"
 
He approved of the remixes in botdf which are..... Not techno.. but sort of clubbing music?
 
I think songs like Ghosts, Invincible and Threatened kinda lean towards the Industrial genre (in terms of digital, hard kicking drums). Industrial is alternative music, and often overlaps with dance.

Industrial music on Wikipedia is described as a "genre of music that draws on harsh, mechanical, transgressive or provocative sounds and themes".
 
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Industrial is like Nine Inch Nails.

Techno is like The Prodigy and Underworld.

Indie was like Oasis or The Smiths.

MJ didn't do any of the above.
 
Tricky Stewart's Slave To The Rhythm from 2010 is the closest to techno.
Another Day is described as industrial rock.
Jason Lipshutz with Gail Mitchell and Gary Graff from Billboard said the song developed an industrial rock groove that was a bit reminiscent of Nine Inch Nails, "Jackson bellows on the chorus, as guitars envelop his voice and Kravitz repeats the song title like a lullaby,"."[24]
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(I Can't Make It) Another Day - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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What about faces? I think it has a pop sound close to enigma but It stills reminds me of something very techn-ish, maybe even trance I don't know if I'm being delusion here lol
 
I guess, in a way it's a good thing he didn't do any of those. (1) he doesn't really know anything about indie music, and (2) techno music has become really dated.

Eveofdestiny said:
I really wanna know if mj approved of the remixes on history in the mix. Did he like them? Cause they are house I guess
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We can only assume he did. I doubt he had any artistic influence over them though.
 
R1chard said:
We can only assume he did. I doubt he had any artistic influence over them though.
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I remember reading or hearing that he actually didn't like remixes in general but accepted them for some reasons like, in that time, it was necessary to target night clubs to be (more) successful...
But I can't remember where I heard/read this...

Regarding techno-type music, I also vaguely remember that MJ complimented the band 2 Unlimited . Which was having very mainstream successes in the beginning of the 90s. So he may have stumbled up on them at some awards ceremonies or such. I think it was someone relating to something that 2 Unlimited's singer (the guy) said... Again it's very vague info that I never took time to double-check.

My guess would be that he may have liked some artists in those styles but wasn't necessarily a fan of electronic music.


Then, to me "Alternative" and "Indie" do not define music styles... they are rather adjectives that people put forward when they wanted to differentiate from mainstream "commercial" artists... "Commercial" was a very pejorative word back then. And it was weird to hear when some "independent" artists and labels grew big and mainstream (the same was that Star Wars was an "independent" franchise all that time it belonged only to Lucas).
 
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Maxym said:
I remember reading or hearing that he actually didn't like remixes in general but accepted them for some reasons like, in that time, it was necessary to target night clubs to be (more) successful...
But I can't remember where I heard/read this...
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I've read this, also. Can't remember who it was. A session musician? An engineer?

Maxym said:
[...] Then, to me "Alternative" and "Indie" do not define music styles... they are rather adjectives that people put forward when they wanted to differentiate from mainstream "commercial" artists...
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Exactly so. I'm sure I read an interview ages ago with a musician who had a conversation with Michael. The musician mentioned Scritti Politti and Michael said how much he loved them. I've been going mental trying to find the wretched thing. Can't find it or remember the details but I didn't imagine it. I wish I could find it bc Green loved Michael back in the Thriller days, apparently.
 
Eveofdestiny said:
And also I really wanna know if mj approved of the remixes on history in the mix. Did he like them? Cause they are house I guess
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Black and White interview:
B&W: What do you think of Blood On The Dance Floor, are you satisfied with that album?
MJ: I'm never satisfied with anything, if it was for me, no album would ever come out...
B&W: What do you think of the remixes they did of your songs?
MJ: The least I can say is that I don't like them...I don't like it that they come in and change my songs completely, But Sony says that the kids love remixes...
B&W: That is not true! The kids don't love the remixes that much, especially those on Blood On The Dance Floor!
MJ: I knew it! I was sure!
 
R1chard said:
Industrial is like Nine Inch Nails.

(...)

MJ didn't do any of the above.
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Rob Hoffman notes that Jackson became a fan of Reznor after being played one of the band’s tracks during the HIStory recording sessions, in which the singer would be provided with a mix CD of contemporary hits. “He was a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails Downward Spiral... It was amazing how he’d come in with some song he liked and want to capture something about it — the energy, the tone, the mood.” You can feel the influence in "Morphine".
 
Until fairly recently Americans had a strange relationship with house and techno though, even if those originated in Chicago and Detroit. Here in Europe it was the biggest thing. There were some housy hit songs in the US but without the right context (parties) they weren't that special either I guess.

And since MJ didn't like clubs and club culture in general (and the drugs, nihilism and sex sometimes associated with that) he might have linked that with house and techno itself (although incorrect)

Anyway I think MJ would definitely had liked like a house beat if it had served a function, like Tricky Stewart's version of 'Slave To The Rhythm' and I know he also liked Moby's work (who did two remixes for him).

To be honest I even feel that if Michael had gone into a more electronic path with his music, like Justin Timberlake did with Futuresexlovesounds, he would have stayed on top of the game
 
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Regarding club culture, the thing I always found ironic was that, in the UK, you would hardly ever hear the original version of a MJ song in a club. Even though we all associate MJ with dancing, most people only ever danced to a dance version of BOW or Jam.

Maxym said:
I remember reading or hearing that he actually didn't like remixes in general but accepted them for some reasons like, in that time, it was necessary to target night clubs to be (more) successful...
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Well, almost every single from Dangerous and HIStory had a handful of remixes - it was MJ's standard B-Side. Some people see them as filler or whatever, but I dunno what he would have released without them. Maybe new songs, lol.

Maxym said:
Regarding techno-type music, I also vaguely remember that MJ complimented the band 2 Unlimited . Which was having very mainstream successes in the beginning on the 90s. So he may have stumbled up on them at some awards ceremonies or such
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Well, the Dangerous tour had support acts including Rozalla, Snap and Culture Beat. Don't know whether that means anything.

Xtarlight and Mpenziwe said:
Rob Hoffman notes that Jackson became a fan of Reznor after being played one of the band’s tracks during the HIStory recording sessions
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I think that's just one of the things MJ used to say. I'm extremely skeptical that he was "a huge fan of Downward Spiral", lol.

Sure, one or two songs on BOTDF have a crunchy electronic distortion, but that was just him being experimental more than anything. It doesn't make him an industrial artist.
 
Victorious said:
Until fairly recently Americans had a strange relationship with house and techno though, even if those originated in Chicago and Detroit.
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It might be because house music originated with Black homosexual culture. It was an offshoot of disco, which was also popular with gay audiences. So was vogue dancing, until Madonna brought it out to the mainstream. Disco/house artists were more likely to be openly gay like singer Sylvester than mainstream popular entertainers. Remember Elton John was married to a woman and the popularity of Queen dropped in the US after they released that music video in drag. Rock fans in the 1970s did not like when rock acts (Rolling Stones, KISS, Rod Stewart, Paul McCartney, Beach Boys, etc) recorded what they considered disco songs and said they sold out. It was hip hop that became mainstream popular in the US probably because it was more traditionally masculine (especially gangsta rap) than house or dance music. A lot of the US is rural & small towns and there's also the bible belt, which is where country music & Americana (Bob Seger, John Cougar Melencamp, Bruce Springsteen) tends to be more popular. The kinds of acts that perform at Farm Aid every year. Country music in general also tends to be traditionally masculine, also with things associated with it like rodeos & westerns. Male country artists are usually way more popular than female artists. Female country artists get don't get much airplay on country radio.
Victorious said:
And since MJ didn't like clubs and club culture in general (and the drugs, nihilism and sex sometimes associated with that) he might have linked that with house and techno itself (although incorrect)
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Sex, Drugs, & Rock n' Roll. Groupies were most associated with rock performers. Many of the earlier jazz artists were drug users too.
 
R1chard said:
what he would have released without them. Maybe new songs, lol.
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Well, Come Together was released on CD during the Dangerous era...

Without the remixes I guess it would have continued as during Bad era with mainly "extended", "instrumental", "a cappella" mix that would remain more similar to the original works.
 
Oh, NIN- Trent has already been addressed, Good. @R1chard Yeah.. I always heard that he was inspired/ impressed by NIN ~Closer on album The Downward Spiral.
Lovely stuff.
 
wendijane said:
Oh, NIN- Trent has already been addressed, Good. @R1chard Yeah.. I always heard that he was inspired/ impressed by NIN ~Closer on album The Downward Spiral.
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Yeah, I saw NIN live in about 2000. And I think between my gf and I, we must have about 80% of all their studio/live/remix albums.

And, let's just be very clear about this - when MJ said he was a big fan of Closer, that simply was not true. Michael used to lie about music all the time
 
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Maxym said:
I remember reading or hearing that he actually didn't like remixes in general but accepted them for some reasons like, in that time, it was necessary to target night clubs to be (more) successful...
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Michael Jackson actually did not like remixes in general, but he accepted them for monetary reasons (bigger chart/sales success of his remixes would bring him even more money).

In the same way, he also accepted something even worse than that: to alter certain lyrics of his songs in order to make them Pepsi songs (such as, the Pepsi version of his 'Billie Jean' song).
 
R1chard said:
Yeah, I saw NIN live in about 2000. And I think between my gf and I, we must have about 80% of all their studio/live/remix albums.

And, let's just be very clear about this - when MJ said he was a big fan of Closer, that simply was not true. Michael used to lie about music all the time
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What do you mean it was simply not true? How could you possibly know that? Lol
 
Even if MJ disliked techno, he preferred to make highly digital, electronic songs in his later career rather than raw music with real, live instruments. We can see this on Invincible.
 
mj_frenzy said:
In the same way, he also accepted something even worse than that: to alter certain lyrics of his songs in order to make them Pepsi songs (such as, the Pepsi version of his 'Billie Jean' song).
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Right... I think he even refused to drink any drink of that kind, but made ads for Dr Pepper, considered a deal with Coca-Cola, signed a deal a with Pepsi.
Though, from some point of view, taking his charity deeds may counterbalance this...

Spaceship said:
Even if MJ disliked techno, he preferred to make highly digital, electronic songs in his later career rather than raw music with real, live instruments. We can see this on Invincible.
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I think we don't know if he disliked techno. (Do we?) But in general he was also after using "new sounds that had not been heard before" in his albums, so Invincible is influenced by the era when it was made... Yet it's not a techno album...
 
This weekend I pulled out the Closer CD single and listened to it straight through. 5 different mixes.

Yeah, Michael Jackson never made any music like that.

He just didn't.

Themidwestcowboy said:
What do you mean it was simply not true? How could you possibly know that? Lol
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If he was "a major fan" then we would have known about it.

As I said, when pressed in TV interviews, he would say the first thing that came into his mind. Anything to come across as positive. He basically said that he loved everyone in every genre. It's PR, not to be taken seriously.
 
R1chard said:
R1chard said:
Yeah, I saw NIN live in about 2000. And I think between my gf and I, we must have about 80% of all their studio/live/remix albums.

And, let's just be very clear about this - when MJ said he was a big fan of Closer, that simply was not true. Michael used to lie about music all the time
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Why would MJ lie about that though ?
 
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R1chard said:
This weekend I pulled out the Closer CD single and listened to it straight through. 5 different mixes.

Yeah, Michael Jackson never made any music like that.

He just didn't.


If he was "a major fan" then we would have known about it.

As I said, when pressed in TV interviews, he would say the first thing that came into his mind. Anything to come across as positive. He basically said that he loved everyone in every genre. It's PR, not to be taken seriously.
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I’m not following anything you just wrote. If he was a major fan then he would have known about what?

As for the second point that’s hilarious because MJ wasn’t even the one who told the story about Nine Inch Nail, it was his engineer so there goes your PR theory. And secondly why would the engineer lie and concoct a story about MJ bringing in songs from nine inch nail because he was a fan of them/closer and wanted to capture a similar vibe?

I simply don’t understand how you came to the conclusion that he was lying.

Also please provide me with any proof that MJ was lying when he named songs in TV interviews that he liked/ was a fan of. what specific interviews are you talking about?
 
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