Did you have to adjust to Michael's new sound when dangerous got released?

[filmandmusic]

I personally as a kid pretty much embraced the new hard sound from the get go. I have to admit though maybe this is happened because I bought the album later on after a couple of single releases. So I had time to adjust to it through the release of the singles and videos. By the time I bought the album I think I already new most of the tracks.
The change in sound was pretty soft for the audience who only knew his single releases. Black or white and remember the time are pretty standard MJ pop songs. When the NJS singles got released we see a steep decline in single sales which could mean the general audience was not ready for the change in style. When later on heal the world and will you be there were released single sales overall picked up again, this could possibly mean the public did not really like his NJS sound?

How did you experience the new sound in 1991/1992? Disappointment? Excitement?

Something I remember as a kid, younger teen is that I was never sure what to expect. MJ released a new single or album and all I could think was "what will it sound like?" It was completely unpredictable. One single could be a gospel anthem and the next could be hard rock. It was very exciting to be a fan in the 90s thanks to the versatility.
I remember when "they don't care about us" debuted on the radio (I again did not have the album from early on) I was so exited thinking to myself " what the fuck is this sound?" I completely loved it and had never heard anything like it.

 

[DuranDuran]

I'm in the USA and so it wasn't a new sound to me. In the USA, by the time Dangerous came out, NJS was starting to be on the way out. It had gotten oversaturated on the radio, especially R&B radio. The New Jack sound had first began around 1985, but it didn't have a name yet. The first song I remember was Alice by Full Force which was either 1984 or 1985. Teddy produced the Doug E. Fresh song The Show, which was around the same time period as Alice. But NJS really blew up in 1987 with Keith Sweat & Al B. Sure. That was about the time Teddy Riley gave it the name New Jack Swing. Both of them got Top 40 radio airplay, but the first to really become a huge mainstream superstar was Bobby Brown from New Edition. At the time the Don't Be Cruel album was selling more than Bad and also the Prince, George Michael, & Madonna albums out at the same time. It's kinda forgotten today after Bobby's later tabloid issues and marriage to Whitney Houston, but he was a big deal.

Other than a few, most actual New Jack Swing artists didn't get the crossover airplay. It was singers like Sheena Easton & Janet Jackson who released New Jack Swing albums/songs who generally got the pop airplay and also other pop acts who released NJS remixes like Jane Child. I think NJS was embraced in the USA, because it is an offspring of hip hop, which around that time was beginning to be mainstream music. It was sort of hip hop with singing instead of rapping, mixed with go-go like beats. I don't know if hip hop was a thing yet in countries outside of the US. Plus it was dance music and 12" maxi single remixes were popular then. Even Bruce Springsteen had a few remix singles.

 

[Prometheus77]

Yeah. I did like the first single, but on my first run through when I bought the album on the day of release, I didn't really like the album at all, especially the first half. Only from Heal the world onwards I started to like it. But that soon changed. Though it still took years to appreciate She drives me wild (HIStory tour) and I can't let her get away (kinda when the Jacksons started to play it, of all songs).

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

No lol. It was before my time.

 

[Nite Line]

I wasn’t even born when Dangerous came out lol.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I'm in the USA and so it wasn't a new sound to me.

Same although I'm in the UK. I didn't buy Michael's records until after he died but I heard most of Dangerous, one way or another. It didn't seem like a 'new' sound to me. It did seem way more interesting.

In the USA, by the time Dangerous came out, NJS was starting to be on the way out. It had gotten oversaturated on the radio, especially R&B radio. The New Jack sound had first began around 1985, but it didn't have a name yet. The first song I remember was Alice by Full Force which was either 1984 or 1985. Teddy produced the Doug E. Fresh song The Show, which was around the same time period as Alice. But NJS really blew up in 1987 with Keith Sweat & Al B. Sure. That was about the time Teddy Riley gave it the name New Jack Swing. Both of them got Top 40 radio airplay,

Yes to all of this.

but the first to really become a huge mainstream superstar was Bobby Brown from New Edition. At the time the Don't Be Cruel album was selling more than Bad and also the Prince, George Michael, & Madonna albums out at the same time. It's kinda forgotten today after Bobby's later tabloid issues and marriage to Whitney Houston, but he was a big deal.

I was never into BB but it's true that he was a really big deal. I'm certainly no cheerleader for the guy - as if! - so I don't care but it's interesting how much his success just doesn't register any more.

Karma!

Other than a few, most actual New Jack Swing artists didn't get the crossover airplay. It was singers like Sheena Easton

Sheena was also a big deal. Not for me but she really was. For a while, at least.

& Janet Jackson who released New Jack Swing albums/songs who generally got the pop airplay and also other pop acts who released NJS remixes like Jane Child. I think NJS was embraced in the USA, because it is an offspring of hip hop, which around that time was beginning to be mainstream music. It was sort of hip hop with singing instead of rapping, mixed with go-go like beats. I don't know if hip hop was a thing yet in countries outside of the US.

It was in the UK. Not really my thing so I didn't pay a lot of attention but it was there, for sure. Started in the early 80's, IIRC, and just built from there.

Plus it was dance music and 12" maxi single remixes were popular then. Even Bruce Springsteen had a few remix singles.

oh god, I'd forgotten that.

 

[Victorious]

I remember not really liking 'Black or White' that much and also thought his appearance was cooler before tbh. With 'Remember The Time' and 'In The Closet' he looked cool again to me lol. I also was kinda dissapointed with his voice; it wasn't mixed in that loud and prominent as I was used to. I did like the NJS-sound and it sounded naturally MJ to me

 

[mthalen]

Liked it straight away. Was listening to NJS back then.
Guy, Wreckx-N-Effect, Today, Heavy-D

 

[zinniabooklover]

Heavy-D

 

[mj_frenzy]

One can say that versatility is not always a good thing, because the 'Dangerous' album and its singles were criticized at the time for being musically unfocused (hard rock song, new jack swing song, gospel song, pop song, etc).

It can also been said that with his 'Dangerous' album (by having so many new jack swing songs in it), Michael Jackson proved for one more time that he was a trend settler, and not a trend setter.

The new jack swing genre had been actually on the decline when the 'Dangerous' album was released (the genre had reached its peak in 1989).

There was also criticism towards his voice which sounds somewhat hoarse and strained on certain new jack swing songs (especially in 'She Drives Me Wild').

People also remarked that the ballads/gospel songs (of the album) did not really suit him, noting that these were songs more suitable for the Canadian female singer Céline Dion.

 

[wonderouzmj]

...

 

[wonderouzmj]

I remember not really liking 'Black or White' that much and also thought his appearance was cooler before tbh. With 'Remember The Time' and 'In The Closet' he looked cool again to me lol. I also was kinda dissapointed with his voice; it wasn't mixed in that loud and prominent as I was used to. I did like the NJS-sound and it sounded naturally MJ to me

He should've been on 2300 jackson st. That album is really njs at its best & at the right time as well. Dangerous was pretty late to the party

 

[DuranDuran]

One can say that versatility is not always a good thing, because the 'Dangerous' album and its singles were criticized at the time for being musically unfocused (hard rock song, new jack swing song, gospel song, pop song, etc).

Were those the same critics who praised The Beatles' White Album, Stevie Wonder's Songs In The Key Of Life, & Prince's Sign O' The Times for the same thing?

It can also been said that with his 'Dangerous' album (by having so many new jack swing songs in it), Michael Jackson proved for one more time that he was a trend settler, and not a trend setter.

But what trends did he ever set musically? Disco was already hot when Destiny & Off The Wall came out. Off The Wall came out the same year as the "disco demolition" riot at the baseball game. After that many Top 40 radio stations stopped playing anything they considered disco including R&B. They went on to the next John Travolta craze - country crossover with the Urban Cowboy movie. Kenny Rogers got a lot of Top 40 airplay. The Dukes Of Hazzard TV show was hot as well and people were into mechanical bulls. Before that John had disco (Saturday Night Fever) & 1950s nostalgia (Grease). All 3 movies & soundtracks were popular in the USA. There wasn't really anything new about most of the songs on Thriller either. At the time there I do recall a lot of R&B acts copying Prince's early 1980s synth sound. The press even gave it a name "Minneapolis Sound".

People also remarked that the ballads/gospel songs (of the album) did not really suit him, noting that these were songs more suitable for the Canadian female singer Céline Dion.

Man In The Mirror has a gospel sound though. What would Celine Dion have to do with Black gospel anyway? If anything, Celine would be more like Contemporary Christian singers like Amy Grant, Sandi Patty, & Michael W. Smith. R&B came from gospel in the first place. Many of the early R&B/soul singers had a gospel music background like Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Billy Preston, Ray Charles, The Staple Singers, Johnnie Taylor, Little Richard, B.B. King, Lou Rawls, etc. There were several early R&B songs that were originally gospel songs with the lyrics changed into secular like I Got A Woman by Ray Charles. You could even say the moaning vocals on What's I Say were from the old Black southern Baptist & Pentecostal churches. Thomas Dorsey, who is considered the father of gospel, also wrote secular blues songs. There is also a tradition into changing secular songs into gospel.

 

[wendijane]

no not at all ....teddy brought me to him. I was big on NJS anyway , so i didnt adjust i was one of the kids who came in on the dangerous boat i guess. I also loved Twin Peaks. ..& before that , Blue velvet.

 

[wendijane]

I'm in the USA and so it wasn't a new sound to me. In the USA, by the time Dangerous came out, NJS was starting to be on the way out. It had gotten oversaturated on the radio, especially R&B radio.

Other than a few, most actual New Jack Swing artists didn't get the crossover airplay. It was singers like Sheena Easton & Janet Jackson who released New Jack Swing albums/songs who generally got the pop airplay and also other pop acts who released NJS remixes like Jane Child. I think NJS was embraced in the USA, because it is an offspring of hip hop, which around that time was beginning to be mainstream music. It was sort of hip hop with singing instead of rapping, mixed with go-go like beats. I don't know if hip hop was a thing yet in countries outside of the US. Plus it was dance music and 12" maxi single remixes were popular then. Even Bruce Springsteen had a few remix singles.

It was in the uK but it was watered down with dance music and as you said remixes , in 1989 you would have Rebel MC, Beatmasters & Betty Boo ,Bomb the Base , Nenah cherry , and then what would surface would be , say ...chart rap, Marky mark & the funky bunch ,vanilla ice , so .not there yet...hip hop here was still mixed with dance music, and pop it would stay in the charts that way, or be endorsed by certain movies .
We would have Yo mtv raps here though. and then in around late 1991/2 the box channel broadcasted alot of 2livecrew, and this was the channel for gansta rap and g funk , so NWA, Domino ,Warren G , Mob deep BlackMoon , , Nas , Wu Tang, all the hard, at that time underground acts ,

1992 -YOu had Kris kross in the charts . They were big here .Snow came through here in 1992 as well. Dr Dre -The Chronic was big here...you had cypress Hill they were big here Dre and Snoop dog was picking up here . by 1993 though , Snoop Dogg had come through more mainstream. Warren G & Nate Dogg were on rotation with regulate. went to number 1 in the charts again from a film ..cant remember which. Bone - Thugs n Harmony were on rotation. Naughty by Nature etc

I followed everything gritty, cause it was so new and explicit and i was hungry and impressionable.
it was miles away from grunge which took over the uk. I think G funk was short lived though. it wasnt huge here .
gansta rap was low key It was there but you had to look for it. so i looked for it. it was still kind of a dirty word really and something to be feared. so i picked at it.
but things didnt pick up too much until Coolio -Ganster Paradise and the film , Dangerous Minds 1995 was presented to the public. See i didnt rate that as hard rap because i was well aware of all the acts from 1992, and owned Coolios album- 'It Takes A Thief ' before .
by the time Tupac died , in sep 1996 it was put on the map. that's when things changed -That's going on my memory .
Off topic -Loved Jane child Did'nt like too much R nB stuff...it was big on the bases though.

 

[Fuzball]

He should've been on 2300 jackson st.

Who, Teddy? He's co-produced 2 tracks on 2300JS.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Who, Teddy? He's co-produced 2 tracks on 2300JS.

He's talking about MJ featuring on more songs than the title track.

I mostly don't agree, but "She" by randy is a pretty killer tune.

 

[DuranDuran]

I mostly don't agree, but "She" by randy is a pretty killer tune.

The same year the 2300 Jackson Street album came out (1989), Jermaine, Randy, & Jackie released solo albums. So they probably cancelled each other out. Randy & The Gypsys was on the same label as Janet (A&M) and 1989 is also the same year as Rhythm Nation 1814 and I'm sure they spent more to promote that than Randy's album

It was in the uK but it was watered down with dance music and as you said remixes , in 1989 you would have Rebel MC, Beatmasters & Betty Boo, Bomb the Base, Neneh cherry, and then what would surface would be, say ...chart rap, Marky mark & the funky bunch, vanilla ice , so .not there yet...hip hop here was still mixed with dance music, and pop it would stay in the charts that way, or be endorsed by certain movies .

We had Betty Boo & Neneh Cherry on the radio in the US. They were played alongside other dance rap acts like C+C Music Factory, Snap!, 2 Unlimited, & Technotronic. I never heard of the others though. Vanilla Ice's debut album sold around 10 million in the USA. Donnie Wahlberg from New Kids On The Block gave an interview a few years ago and said that Marky Mark's first album was originally his solo rap album and the Funky Bunch was his group. Donnie said that he removed his vocals and had Mark rap over the tracks. Donnie said he gave the album to Mark to give him something positive to do with his time because he was afraid that Mark was eventually going to wind up in prison.

Snow came through here in 1992 as well.

Snow wasn't really considered hip hop. He was dancehall like Shaggy, Patra, & Shabba Ranks and more recently Sean Paul. Dancehall is a part of reggae.

 

[wendijane]

The same year the 2300 Jackson Street album came out (1989), Jermaine, Randy, & Jackie released solo albums. So they probably cancelled each other out. Randy & The Gypsys was on the same label as Janet (A&M) and 1989 is also the same year as Rhythm Nation 1814 and I'm sure they spent more to promote that than Randy's album

We had Betty Boo & Neneh Cherry on the radio in the US. They were played alongside other dance rap acts like C+C Music Factory, Snap!, 2 Unlimited, & Technotronic. I never heard of the others though. Vanilla Ice's debut album sold around 10 million in the USA. Donnie Wahlberg from New Kids On The Block gave an interview a few years ago and said that Marky Mark's first album was originally his solo rap album and the Funky Bunch was his group. Donnie said that he removed his vocals and had Mark rap over the tracks. Donnie said he gave the album to Mark to give him something positive to do with his time because he was afraid that Mark was eventually going to wind up in prison.

Snow wasn't really considered hip hop. He was dancehall like Shaggy, Patra, & Shabba Ranks and more recently Sean Paul. Dancehall is a part of reggae.

Betty boo crossed over to you guys? really ....Most names there that you mentioned @DuranDuran were here too.
Mark went into film eventually didnt' he ?
Cooll Yeah i was never interested in dancehall- reggae that much. I knew of a few.. Lil vicious being one

 

[wonderouzmj]

He's talking about MJ featuring on more songs than the title track.

I mostly don't agree, but "She" by randy is a pretty killer tune.

THAT'S THE EXACT TRACK I WAS LISTENING TO THAT MADE ME SAY THIS! BOY YOU ON POINT!!

 

[wendijane]

The same year the 2300 Jackson Street album came out (1989), Jermaine, Randy, & Jackie released solo albums. So they probably cancelled each other out. Randy & The Gypsys was on the same label as Janet (A&M) and 1989 is also the same year as Rhythm Nation 1814 and I'm sure they spent more to promote that than Randy's album

We had Betty Boo & Neneh Cherry on the radio in the US. They were played alongside other dance rap acts like C+C Music Factory, Snap!, 2 Unlimited, & Technotronic. I never heard of the others though. Vanilla Ice's debut album sold around 10 million in the USA. Donnie Wahlberg from New Kids On The Block gave an interview a few years ago and said that Marky Mark's first album was originally his solo rap album and the Funky Bunch was his group. Donnie said that he removed his vocals and had Mark rap over the tracks. Donnie said he gave the album to Mark to give him something positive to do with his time because he was afraid that Mark was eventually going to wind up in prison.

Snow wasn't really considered hip hop. He was dancehall like Shaggy, Patra, & Shabba Ranks and more recently Sean Paul. Dancehall is a part of reggae.

We had jungle here 1994-1995 now that was also huge here.

 

[DuranDuran]

oh god, I'd forgotten that.

In the 1980s Madonna, Howard Jones, & Jody Watley had remix albums that were hits. George Michael said he hired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis to work on the remix for Monkey, because he heard the Janet Jackson remix album More Control. In the early 1990s, MTV had some compilation albums called MTV Party To Go, which had nonstop popular remixes of then current hits. In a lot of cases during the 1980s & 1990s the single version of songs were remixes. Some people would buy the album and would be mad that the version on there was not the one on the radio and/or music video. It was thought that disco died after 1978. It was just renamed "dance music" & "house music" during the 1980s. Even a lot of new wave was basically dance music. Remix maxi singles were invented during the 1970s disco era, so that was also a continuation. There were even remixers that became well known stars like Jellybean Benitez, Arthur Baker, The Latin Rascals, Shep Pettibone, & Masters At Work. Another popular dance music during the 1980s in the USA was "Latin Freestyle". One of the first hits in Latin Freestyle was Let The Music Play by Shannon.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

In the 1980s Madonna, Howard Jones, & Jody Watley had remix albums that were hits. George Michael said he hired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis to work on the remix for Monkey, because he heard the Janet Jackson remix album More Control. In the early 1990s, MTV had some compilation albums called MTV Party To Go, which had nonstop popular remixes of then current hits. In a lot of cases during the 1980s & 1990s the single version of songs were remixes. Some people would buy the album and would be mad that the version on there was not the one on the radio and/or music video. It was thought that disco died after 1978. It was just renamed "dance music" & "house music" during the 1980s. Even a lot of new wave was basically dance music. Remix maxi singles were invented during the 1970s disco era, so that was also a continuation. There were even remixers that became well known stars like Jellybean Benitez, Arthur Baker, The Latin Rascals, Shep Pettibone, & Masters At Work. Another popular dance music during the 1980s in the USA was "Latin Freestyle". One of the first hits in Latin Freestyle was Let The Music Play by Shannon.

Bro, why do you talk so much about music that isn't Michael Jackson? How dare you¿¿ We don't do that here. Sacrilegious to be honest

 

[filmandmusic]

@mj_frenzy just answer the question, I want your opinion not that of other people or critics What were your thoughts upon hearing the Dangerous album initially?

 

[DuranDuran]

Bro, why do you talk so much about music that isn't Michael Jackson? How dare you¿¿ We don't do that here. Sacrilegious to be honest

I'm pretty sure if you look in the archives, then that isn't true. There were a lot of people in the past who would talk about music in general here such as Arxter, Timmy, J5 Master, & Mistermaxxx. Most of them left years ago.

Mike wasn't in a vacuum, his records were influenced by whatever was going on at the time. Mike had a remix album because that was in at the time. The Girl Is Mine has a sound that was in during that period.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I'm pretty sure if you look in the archives, then that isn't true. There were a lot of people in the past who would talk about music in general here such as Arxter, Timmy, J5 Master, & Mistermaxxx. Most of them left years ago.

Mike wasn't in a vacuum, his records were influenced by whatever was going on at the time. Mike had a remix album because that was in at the time. The Girl Is Mine has a sound that was in during that period.

I promise I'm only joking lol

 

[Victorious]

We had jungle here 1994-1995 now that was also huge here.

Fun fact: I was a Jungle/Drum 'n' Bass dj!

 

[Victorious]

Here Heavy D claims he was the one who tipped Teddy Riley to MJ after hearing the song he was supposed to rap on was wack. So now I am curious if he was talking about Jam or another (Loren maybe?) track?

 

[wendijane]

Fun fact: I was a Jungle/Drum 'n' Bass dj!

See that is cool. thanx for liking my post actually. I wasn't huge into the scene but well aware of it- You know i forgot another hip hop act who were big here ...House of Pain , summer of 1992.

 

[mj_frenzy]

@mj_frenzy just answer the question, I want your opinion not that of other people or critics What were your thoughts upon hearing the Dangerous album initially?

My thoughts upon hearing the 'Dangerous' album initially were that the album included many unnecessary things.

For example:

- the 17-second intro of 'Why You Wanna Trip On Me'
- the 35-second intro of 'In The Closet'
- the 17-second intro of 'Can't Let Her Get Away'
- the 20-second intro of 'Dangerous' (the song)
- the 20-second intro of 'Who Is It'
- the spoken intro of 'Black Or White'
- the classical prelude intro of 'Will You Be There'

The 'Dangerous' song also dragged on unnecessarily (toward its end) for more than a minute.

Also, 'Gone Too Soon' served no purpose at all on that album.

'Remember The Time' sounded very ordinary, even worse the 'She Drives Me Wild' and 'Can't Let Her Get Away' songs which both sounded too inferior and cheap.

Also, it struck me as odd that the 'Why You Wanna Trip On Me', 'Remember The Time', 'Who Is It', 'Will You Be There' titles did not have a question mark printed at the end.

But the album had few good things, for example:

When the 'Jam' began to play, it came as a shock to me and I almost passed out.

'In The Closet' was another good song that stood out immediately for me.

'Give In To Me' was another good song that stood out immediately for me, and I also liked the fact how his feminine-sounding voice contrasted with the harsh guitar sounds of that hard rock song.

Were those the same critics who praised The Beatles' White Album, Stevie Wonder's Songs In The Key Of Life, & Prince's Sign O' The Times for the same thing?

But what trends did he ever set musically? Disco was already hot when Destiny & Off The Wall came out. Off The Wall came out the same year as the "disco demolition" riot at the baseball game. After that many Top 40 radio stations stopped playing anything they considered disco including R&B. They went on to the next John Travolta craze - country crossover with the Urban Cowboy movie. Kenny Rogers got a lot of Top 40 airplay. The Dukes Of Hazzard TV show was hot as well and people were into mechanical bulls. Before that John had disco (Saturday Night Fever) & 1950s nostalgia (Grease). All 3 movies & soundtracks were popular in the USA. There wasn't really anything new about most of the songs on Thriller either. At the time there I do recall a lot of R&B acts copying Prince's early 1980s synth sound. The press even gave it a name "Minneapolis Sound".

Man In The Mirror has a gospel sound though. What would Celine Dion have to do with Black gospel anyway? If anything, Celine would be more like Contemporary Christian singers like Amy Grant, Sandi Patty, & Michael W. Smith. R&B came from gospel in the first place. Many of the early R&B/soul singers had a gospel music background like Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Billy Preston, Ray Charles, The Staple Singers, Johnnie Taylor, Little Richard, B.B. King, Lou Rawls, etc. There were several early R&B songs that were originally gospel songs with the lyrics changed into secular like I Got A Woman by Ray Charles. You could even say the moaning vocals on What's I Say were from the old Black southern Baptist & Pentecostal churches. Thomas Dorsey, who is considered the father of gospel, also wrote secular blues songs. There is also a tradition into changing secular songs into gospel.

That was exactly my point.

Michael Jackson never set any trends musically.

Even with his new, studio album (that he was working on in his final years) he showed that he was about to follow musical trends for one more time.

One has to look at the producers that he chose to work with on that album (in his final years): will.i.am, Neff-U, RedOne, etc, were all very safe choices as producers because they used to produce songs/hits (at that time) with a sound that the audience was already very familiar with.