[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

she run away to Australia probably so she would not be subpoenaed by the estate. If only claiming his mother was aware would allow him to go forward with this case, I am sure he will. She will stay in Australia not to face any consequences until he gets a settlement or be heard in a court of law.

Being subpoenaed is one thing. But will Joy take it upon herself to say

1) she knowingly enabled the sexual abuse of her own son,
2) not only that but she even lied about it in a court in 2005 in order to protect the abuser?

It's not just about the subpoenaes but also about how would it make her look. With that she would basically be made a co-conspirator of Michael in the sexual abuse of her own son. And like I said all that would not get them ahead in their lawsuit because she still should prove that she reported it to people in authority who failed to act upon it. There is obviously no such report and never has been, otherwise Sneddon would have known about it.

Wade would also need to modify his allegations, because in his lawsuit he says that the first time he ever disclosed his abuse to anyone was in 2012 to his therapist. So that would leave Joy only with a possible "I suspected it" claim, but then the next question is: "if you suspected why did you let the sleepovers happen"?

All this would make HER the negligent party not any of MJ's companies, so it would not get them anywhere.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And the court will say take it up with your Mother

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Would Robson dare to throw his own mother under the bus for money? It's demonstrated with documents Joy was who pushed her children to move to USA with Michael's help, she was the one pimping her own son to be in showbiz and Michael helped him with his career.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

IMO again they are all in it. So I don't think he would do such a thing

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Looks to me like the estate is kicking arse here! I love how they're calling Wade and his lawyers out on their bullshit, then they had to admit naming MJ in the lawsuit isn't valid. They look like total morons! (Because they are)

 

[la_cienega]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, judging by what the estate has put forth, they seem to have a good enough case to get this all dismissed.

UNLESS Wade changes his claims - and if he does, he's walking himself to his doom.

 

[8701girl]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

[ then they had to admit naming MJ in the lawsuit isn't valid. /QUOTE]

Well it isnt really since michael is no longer here so techinally wade cant sue michael

 

[passy001]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Based on these I think that MJ and MJ's companies should be dismissed as defendants in these cases. (Hopefully there is no loophole that Robson can use for his advantage.) I guess that would leave the Estate and the Executors as entities they could sue and that would come down to the decision about the creditor's claim in February 2015. Whatever the decision on that would be I guess the case would still go ahead, because if the decision is that the creditor's claim is dismissed then Wade's side will sue the Executors (I think they already said that) and if the cc is given the go ahead then it will be the Executor's who will deny it which again would mean a lawsuit. So this could go on for years.

What would be the point of suing the executors? how is that going to help them prove anything? the other witness (MJ) is dead, making this whole mess a complete waste of time.

Anyhow, even if it goes on for years ( which I highly doubt), Robson will be completely broke as he will be facing unsurmountable legal bills both from the estate and his own lawyers. This could explain in part why robson is hunting for "victims" to join his frivolous suit. so he can share the legal costs with them. That means it's a business decision.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think his goal is to sue Michael but it's hard and even impossible as he's dead and a lot of time has passed for a lot of statue of limitations. So he's trying to circumvent the situation and trying to sue companies and/or executors. However if you look to the claims carefully there's really no claim towards these parties, it's all about Michael.

Let me explain this further : a real case towards corporate entities should have been focused on the role of the companies bringing Wade to USA and if they had any knowledge of "red flag" of an abuse. That's it. However if you pay attention you'll see Wade alleges sexual abuse by these entities -which is impossible. So he's trying to sue MJ, a dead man more than two decades later. I hope the court sees through it and doesn't allow either claim to go on.

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also check something for me

doe 1 MJ - there's a demurrer
doe 2,3 companies - there's a demurrer

doe 4,5 reserved for Executors. Wade told if creditor claim is allowed and Estate rejects it he would add executors to his civil case.

check case management statement item 3 c "we don't believe executors are appropriate parties but that is being litigated in a probate petition".

I think this means in order for Wade to sue Executors, he needs the court to allow him to file a later creditors claim. I think if court doesn't allow it he will not be able to sue Executors. What do you think?

Doesn't that explain this dance? Because if he could sue Executors why not directly go and add them to the civil lawsuit? His claims are about MJ, about when he was alive so it needs to go through probate court hence why he's fighting for a late claim.

Again what do you think? Am I on the right track?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Let me explain this further : a real case towards corporate entities should have been focused on the role of the companies bringing Wade to USA and if they had any knowledge of "red flag" of an abuse. That's it. However if you pay attention you'll see Wade alleges sexual abuse by these entities -which is impossible. So he's trying to sue MJ, a dead man more than two decades later. I hope the court sees through it and doesn't allow either claim to go on.

That law about entities being held accountable for child abuse if the entity knew or had reasons to know about abuse by one of their employees, representatives etc. was made with such cases in mind as the catholic church which knew that priests committed child abuse but instead of reporting them to authorities they just swept the whole thing under the rug. Or about cases like Sandusky's where there was an eye witness at the University to one of his abuses and that witness reported it immediately to his principal but instead of doing something about it the University just swept it under the rug.

That's the kind of thing Wade should prove here for it to work, but he has a hard time to even claim something like that. Just because the companies helped to move him to the US how does it mean they knew or had reasons to know he was allegedly abused? He claims he told no one until 2012, both he and his family denied allegations of abuse until 2012, so how should have these companies known?

It seems to me they just threw this in there while hoping they would discover some big dark secret about these companies during discovery - ie. that MJ was this serial molester and these companies participated in cover-ups of abuse. In more than 10 years of investigation no such evidence was ever produced so I don't know why they think that their access to Neverland Search material would result in such a discovery? Because that is one of the reasons they gave as to why they should have access to NL search material (the other was the "modus operandi" thing). But there is no reason to believe the NL search resulted in such material. If it did it would have been presented in court in 2005.

And in this case Michael was the sole owner of his companies, he had full control over them and not the other way around. And just because a defendant is the owner of a company it cannot be held accountable for its owners alleged actions:

-------------

also check something for me

doe 1 MJ - there's a demurrer
doe 2,3 companies - there's a demurrer

doe 4,5 reserved for Executors. Wade told if creditor claim is allowed and Estate rejects it he would add executors to his civil case.

check case management statement item 3 c "we don't believe executors are appropriate parties but that is being litigated in a probate petition".

I think this means in order for Wade to sue Executors, he needs the court to allow him to file a later creditors claim. I think if court doesn't allow it he will not be able to sue Executors. What do you think?

Yes, that makes sense to me.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That's the kind of thing Wade should prove here for it to work, but he has a hard time to even claim something like that. Just because the companies helped to move him to the US how does it mean they knew or had reasons to know he was allegedly abused? Nonsense. The precedent cases the Estate quotes are very clear on that.

very similar to AEG , just because they hired Murray it did not mean they were aware at the time of his incompetency as there was absolutely no indication of that. "They knew or should have known" which we all know what was the jury's answer to that. He was hired and moved to the US way before 1993.

We are talking about technicalities , not to mention the lack of logic in everything he has been claiming.

It seems a very weak case.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

very similar to AEG , just because they hired Murray it did not mean they were aware at the time of his incompetency as there was absolutely no indication of that. "They knew or should have known" which we all know what was the jury's answer to that. He was hired and moved to the US way before 1993.

I think the only way for that is to show an allegation and/or settlement before his arrival. I wonder if that's where Safechuck comes into play.

 

[Justthefacts]

But wouldn&#8217;t that be kind of oblivious? I remember Diane commenting on a TMZ storywhere she say Upchuck never said Michael had not abused him so that could bethe case. But here I am quoting Diane Dimond let me go pray <o></o>

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Safe**** was still a close friend of MJ during his marriage to Lisa Marie. So it is highly illogical to assume he accuse MJ or received a settlement before 1993. I am sure if there was the smallest evidence of any sort of allegations or settlement before 1993 , Sneddon would have uncovered it.

I dont know if you were a fan in 2005, but Sneddon got more than 100 search warrants, it was really something unheard of for such case, They were really desperate for anything ANYTHING .

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well again if they go that route we can think Miss Latoya for it

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Safe**** was still a close friend of MJ during his marriage to Lisa Marie. So it is highly illogical to assume he accuse MJ or received a settlement before 1993. I am sure if there was the smallest evidence of any sort of allegations or settlement before 1993 , Sneddon would have uncovered it.

I dont know if you were a fan in 2005, but Sneddon got more than 100 search warrants, it was really something unheard of for such case, They were really desperate for anything ANYTHING .

And he spoke to the GJ in 1994

 

[HIStory]

But wouldn&#8217;t that be kind of oblivious? I remember Diane commenting on a TMZ storywhere she say Upchuck never said Michael had not abused him so that could bethe case. But here I am quoting Diane Dimond let me go pray <o></o>

Dimond is obviously full of it if it indeed was her commenting on that TMZ article. Just because Safechuck wasn't in the public eye like Wade was and did not testify in 2005 (and that was because the prosecution did not put anyone on the stand claiming anything about him) it does not mean he never denied abuse. He is very obviously on law enforcement records denying it. There was no kid around MJ that Sneddon and Co. did not interview in 1993. According to reports they interviewed up to 60 kids and since Safechuck was one of the kids MJ publicly hang out with I'm sure he was among the first ones they interviewed. And also because the Quindoys made allegations about him in the media. There is absolutely no way he was never interviewed by the police. And if he was obviously he must have denied it since he was not among Sneddon's alleged victims. He also accompanied MJ and LMP in Budapest in 1994 (as a 16-17 year old), so again, it's clear he did not say anything incriminating about Michael in 1993 to anyone. And BTW, if Dimond wrote that comment on TMZ she even contradicts her own article which says:

Safechuck was mentioned as a potential abuse victim by employees of Jackson&#8217;s Neverland Ranch in court documents filed ahead of the star&#8217;s 2005 criminal trial, but he always denied that Jackson had molested him.

I think the only way for that is to show an allegation and/or settlement before his arrival. I wonder if that's where Safechuck comes into play.

But what they need to show is that the companies had reasons to believe MJ molested Wade (or James or anyone else). Safechuck saying now, in 2014 he was molested in the late 80s-early 90s won't change the fact that back then MJ's companies had no reason to think any such thing.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And he spoke to the GJ in 1994

Well, there you have it then. If he had said anything incriminating about MJ in front of the GJ Sneddon would have used it to indict MJ. And it would have been all over in the media too. And not denying the alleged abuse would have been seen as incriminating to MJ. So obviously he did deny it.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I believe we are here assuming there must be some logic or ground for such details and claims , otherwise they would not have added them. After all no one wise shoots himself with lies that can be easily refuted. But our own experience proves the contrary. Mez used Sneddon's conspiracy charge to destroy the other indefensible charges of sexual abuse and did tremendously well, AEG used Jacksons own words and initial strategy on MJ's drug history against them with also tremendous success.

Just the few examples posted here of the way Wade's side respond to the estates' inquiries demonstrate clearly not only the huge errors in logic and judgment in their claims but more importantly the misrepresentation of precedent cases and laws used to justify their case.

The more we read the more we get to know that they are expecting the judge to set multiple precedents , bend the laws in many different areas to allow their case to go forward.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think they can accuse the estate of knowing he was abused and not doing anything about. Put good luck proving it. Just like Wafe he denied it.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If he does end up suing the estate for turning down his claim what can he sue them for?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If he does end up suing the estate for turning down his claim what can he sue them for?

The way I understand it: if the creditor's claim is given the go ahead by the court then the Estate has two choices. Either to say, "ok, we pay you" or they say "no, we don't, we dispute this claim". If it's the latter then it's a legal dispute between the Estate and the Claimant about the claim, so a court has to decide that dispute - ie. it goes to court.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Estate is representative of Michael after his death. So technically to sue Estate means to sue Michael. I think that's why he filed a creditor claim and trying to get his late claim approved so that he can sue Michael aka Estate. I think he also filed another lawsuit to sue the corporations - a tactic to circumvent the situation if he cannot sue Michael / Estate.

He has a single claim - childhood sexual abuse.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He can't sue the estate unless he is allowed to file a creditor claim. Else he would have already sued the estate without the hazard of trying to get the court to approve his late filing.


Creditor claim : If he s not successful ; the judge does not give him permission to file. Then that's it, he can do absolutely nothing.
If he is successful, either the estate settles with him or he initiate a new lawsuit against them.

 

[dannyboy72]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Even if the case gets thrown out, the damage has already been done because there are a lot of people who believe his claims.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

those who believe him, believed Gavin and Chandler. Nothing new.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Even if the case gets thrown out, the damage has already been done because there are a lot of people who believe his claims.

The damage has been already done when Jordan Chandler made his allegations.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He can't sue the estate unless he is allowed to file a creditor claim. Else he would have already sued the estate without the hazard of trying to get the court to approve his late filing.


Creditor claim : If he s not successful ; the judge does not give him permission to file. Then that's it, he can do absolutely nothing.
If he is successful, either the estate settles with him or he initiate a new lawsuit against them.

That's interesting. You would think they would have been a litte more careful with this claim Him saying he is unable to work and he has been working him saying he did not know there was an estate and he later admits he did know. IMO it would have made better sense to say my memories were repressed I mean I don't know

 

[dannyboy72]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh and another thing. I just re-watched his today show interview and I am still not buying the whole "Michael coached me and brainwashed me" BS. Someone close to MJ mentioned that he was very paranoid and felt that all his phones were tapped during the chandler investigation as well as the Arvizo investigation. Wade stated very specifically that after the Chandler allegations broke, Michael would call him every day and they would role play, rehearsing what Wade was to say, and did the same when the trial came in 2005.

I find this a little hard to believe. Michael would have been way too smart to be having such phone conversations with any child at any time, but especially after 1993 and 2003. He was all too aware that anything said in a phone conversation could be taped at any time and could be used against him. As a celebrity, he was always aware of extortion threats and over the years, as his trust of people decreased, he would have been very careful not put himself in such an incriminating position.

Considering the fact that he knew his child friends were going to be questioned by police and prosecutors, it is very possible that he did indeed coach Wade and rehearse how he should answer questions and so on, but I always thought he had his own private investigator to do all those things? or he probably would have met with Wade in person. The idea of calling him on the phone "every day" seems way too risky.

 

[analogue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The damage has been already done when Jordan Chandler made his allegations.

Yeah and there are people who believe that MJ molested Jordan but didn't molest any other child. It's crazy, but there are people who do believe that