Don't Stop Til You Get Enough - Song Discussion

Hi Respect 77

I read about in several Prince biographies. The feeling was mutual and in reality their relationship was one of quiet respect and mutual rivalry. Prince is a generally heartless person and I along with other Prince fans was disgusted at his general lack of sympathy at the time of his death, although later he said "It is always sad when you lose someone you love" and quoted one of his backing singers having a youthful MJ sound.

MJ was actually in awe of Purple Rain and Prince's achievements with instruments and productions, he also looked to Paisley Park as a model for Nation records (Even though Paisley never had hits, it released a lot of albums ranging from Prince proteges down to acts like Good Question and Dale Bozzio who had nothing to do with Prince himself). At the same time MJ did not like Prince's open use of sexuality and his disrespect of women. It seemed Prince was too worldly for him then. Of course now the squeaky clean JW Prince would really be his cup of tea. MJ may have been angry that it was Prince's ineherent "sinfulness" that made him a star and the ability to manage acts.

Both were influenced heavily by a 1980 movie about a man who managed the career of several of his own invented pop stars based on the manager of Frankie Avalon (The Idolmaker). Prince had heaps of proteges, but Michael had none, only trying to manage 3T who pretty much faded away after the first album and Brownstone were also a Nation act I think.

And also, as great a performers, dancer, singer and songwriter MJ was, he had to hire people to play guitars, drums, bass, keyboards and synths on his music and have Quincy, Rodney or Teddy as producer. Prince did all that stuff himself and taught his bands the parts they played. Michael had to pay for all that. But overall MJ left more magical and higher quality music. No Prince dance track could match a song like Beat It, Billie Jean, DSTYGE, TWYMMF (Many come close, but MJ set the ballpark with his music).

In awe huh? Then what was Prince's behind doing at the Jackson's Triumph tour/end tour party in 81'? Hint: To get tips/ideas maybe?http://tally777.tumblr.com/post/107002017334/michael-with-bill-wolfer-bill-wolfer-talks-about
 
Michael called to ask if I would help with a demo. I said sure, do you want me to come over to your house? He said, no, can we do it at yours? I was surprised that he would come to me, but why not? Maybe he wanted to get out of the house. When he came over, my wife was watching a re-run of « Grease » on TV. Michael flopped on the couch, saying, « I love this movie! » After it was over, he took out a cassette, and it was only then that I learned that it was a song that he and Paul McCartney had written. Michael wanted to do an elaborate demo to show Paul his vision of the song. The cassette was just Paul on acoustic guitar, and he and Michael singing. We worked out the beat on a Linn LM-1 drum machine, and recorded a basic demo of Rhodes piano, synth bass and the drum machine on my four track recorder. This was used a few days later in the studio to teach the song to Nate Watts (bass) and Ricky Lawson (drums). We laid down the track, just the three of us, and then David Williams did guitar overdubs. Later that week, I came in to do some synth overdubs, and watched him record the horns and harmonica solo.

It was pretty elaborate for a demo! Michael confided in me that he was doing a full 24 track recording in the hope that Paul would just use his version, adding their vocals and mixing it. Months later, Michael told me the story. He had flown to England, and played the demo for Paul. Paul immediately heard the sound quality, and asked, « Is this 24 track? » Michael said it was. Paul said, « Did you bring it with you? » And, of course he had. So, the ‘demo’ became the record, just as Michael had hoped.


Oh dear god
giphy.gif
 
Themidwestcowboy;4103641 said:
Michael called to ask if I would help with a demo. I said sure, do you want me to come over to your house? He said, no, can we do it at yours? I was surprised that he would come to me, but why not? Maybe he wanted to get out of the house. When he came over, my wife was watching a re-run of « Grease » on TV. Michael flopped on the couch, saying, « I love this movie! » After it was over, he took out a cassette, and it was only then that I learned that it was a song that he and Paul McCartney had written. Michael wanted to do an elaborate demo to show Paul his vision of the song. The cassette was just Paul on acoustic guitar, and he and Michael singing. We worked out the beat on a Linn LM-1 drum machine, and recorded a basic demo of Rhodes piano, synth bass and the drum machine on my four track recorder. This was used a few days later in the studio to teach the song to Nate Watts (bass) and Ricky Lawson (drums). We laid down the track, just the three of us, and then David Williams did guitar overdubs. Later that week, I came in to do some synth overdubs, and watched him record the horns and harmonica solo.

It was pretty elaborate for a demo! Michael confided in me that he was doing a full 24 track recording in the hope that Paul would just use his version, adding their vocals and mixing it. Months later, Michael told me the story. He had flown to England, and played the demo for Paul. Paul immediately heard the sound quality, and asked, « Is this 24 track? » Michael said it was. Paul said, « Did you bring it with you? » And, of course he had. So, the ‘demo’ became the record, just as Michael had hoped.


Oh dear god
giphy.gif

So what's the moral of the story?
 
Exactly one of the greatest songs by one the greatest of all time. I merely mentioned the Prince stuff to embellish the fact of how influential Can't stop was. That song was pure perfection and established Michael Jackson as a master of the danceable pop song. It was cute enough for teeny boppers, funky enough for the dancers and groovy and bouncy enough for the party people. Plus Rock with you would go on to win over all the lovers.
 
Michael called to ask if I would help with a demo. I said sure, do you want me to come over to your house? He said, no, can we do it at yours? I was surprised that he would come to me, but why not? Maybe he wanted to get out of the house. When he came over, my wife was watching a re-run of « Grease » on TV. Michael flopped on the couch, saying, « I love this movie! » After it was over, he took out a cassette, and it was only then that I learned that it was a song that he and Paul McCartney had written. Michael wanted to do an elaborate demo to show Paul his vision of the song. The cassette was just Paul on acoustic guitar, and he and Michael singing. We worked out the beat on a Linn LM-1 drum machine, and recorded a basic demo of Rhodes piano, synth bass and the drum machine on my four track recorder. This was used a few days later in the studio to teach the song to Nate Watts (bass) and Ricky Lawson (drums). We laid down the track, just the three of us, and then David Williams did guitar overdubs. Later that week, I came in to do some synth overdubs, and watched him record the horns and harmonica solo.

It was pretty elaborate for a demo! Michael confided in me that he was doing a full 24 track recording in the hope that Paul would just use his version, adding their vocals and mixing it. Months later, Michael told me the story. He had flown to England, and played the demo for Paul. Paul immediately heard the sound quality, and asked, « Is this 24 track? » Michael said it was. Paul said, « Did you bring it with you? » And, of course he had. So, the ‘demo’ became the record, just as Michael had hoped.

This just goes to prove that Michael wasn't Quincy's puppet despite contrary belief. He had it in him to produce great songs without Quincy. Even back then. I never knew Michael had this much involvement in Say Say Say.
 
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This just goes to prove that Michael wasn't Quincy's puppet despite contrary belief. He had it in him to produce great songs without Quincy. Even back then. I never knew Michael had this much involvement in Say Say Say.

I don't believe I've ever heard anyone suggest that Michael was Quincy's puppet, Quincy never said that, nor did Rod Temperton.....

I have no idea where that notion came from but it appears it started 5-6 years ago
 
Bringing Brighter Days;4104325 said:
I don't believe I've ever heard anyone suggest that Michael was Quincy's puppet, Quincy never said that, nor did Rod Temperton.....

I have no idea where that notion came from but it appears it started 5-6 years ago

“What am I gonna learn from Michael? I don’t want to be a singer and a dancer.” Jones said. “We told him what songs he was going to sing. A producer has to do that. - Q”

Way to reinforce an already ridiculous notion. This is no secret that many people relate Michael's success in the 80's to Quincy Jones. MJ was just the "singer".That's nothing new.
 
Themidwestcowboy;4104339 said:
“What am I gonna learn from Michael? I don’t want to be a singer and a dancer.” Jones said. “We told him what songs he was going to sing. A producer has to do that. - Q”

Way to reinforce an already ridiculous notion. This is no secret that many people relate Michael's success in the 80's to Quincy Jones. MJ was just the "singer".That's nothing new.

Even though MJ wrote most of his big hits and Quincy only ever wrote half a song (P.Y.T.) for an MJ album.
 
Themidwestcowboy;4104339 said:
“What am I gonna learn from Michael? I don’t want to be a singer and a dancer.” Jones said. “We told him what songs he was going to sing. A producer has to do that. - Q”

Way to reinforce an already ridiculous notion. This is no secret that many people relate Michael's success in the 80's to Quincy Jones. MJ was just the "singer".That's nothing new.


Quincy reacted that way because for the past 5 years, word has been put out that he was trying to take all the credit but when it actually went down, there was never one moment that Quincy tried to take all the credit

and facts and proof show that Michael's greatest success happened when he collaborated with Quincy Jones, there is not even a doubt about that

now when their collaboration resulted in creating the greatest r&b/soul album quintessential of all time, the greatest selling album of all time, and the most anticipated follow up album in history....back to back to back........there's no doubt about it

and here's another golden nugget, when Michael started preparing to work on his last studio album which would become known as Invincible, Rodney Jerkins was the the initial producer Michael sought to work on it, it was Quincy Jones he went to as Michael said he wanted to work together w/him again to "recreate the magic"...
 
Quincy reacted that way because for the past 5 years, word has been put out that he was trying to take all the credit but when it actually went down, there was never one moment that Quincy tried to take all the credit

and facts and proof show that Michael's greatest success happened when he collaborated with Quincy Jones, there is not even a doubt about that

now when their collaboration resulted in creating the greatest r&b/soul album quintessential of all time, the greatest selling album of all time, and the most anticipated follow up album in history....back to back to back........there's no doubt about it

and here's another golden nugget, when Michael started preparing to work on his last studio album which would become known as Invincible, Rodney Jerkins was the the initial producer Michael sought to work on it, it was Quincy Jones he went to as Michael said he wanted to work together w/him again to "recreate the magic"...

Quincy did try to belittle MJ's role. What Themidwestcowboy quoted is just one example of that. But let's not start this again, because we have been through it a number of times in other threads with you and you have an obvious and huge bias for Quincy and that will never change.

You could also never provide a credible source for this claim that MJ sought to work with Quincy for Invincible. All you did you referenced some radio program presenter that you once heard somewhere and that supposedly claimed this before the release of Invincible, but that doesn't mean it's true especially when there is no another, credible source for this claim or no one from the people who worked with MJ ever made any mention of such a thing. You obviously want to believe in this uncorroborated rumour because you are a huge fan of Quincy, but wishful thinking won't make it true.
 
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Quincy did try to belittle MJ's role. What Themidwestcowboy quoted it just one example of that. But let's not start this again, because we have been through it a number of times in other threads with you and you have an obvious bias for Quincy and that will not change.

You could also never provide a source for this claim that MJ sought to work with Quincy for Invincible. All you did you referenced some radio program presenter that you heard somewhere and that supposedly claimed this before the release of Invincible, but that doesn't mean it's true especially when there is no another, credible source for this claim.

It is not about a bias, the facts prove it and show

Teddy Riley and Rodney Jerkins produced one of his albums

Quincy produced three if his albums. Those are facts

When Michael and Quincy collaborated, they were creating groundbreaking music together....Michael hired Teddy Riley and Jerkins to incorporate sounds that were already popular on the scene. These are facts

Quincy has never tried to diminish or marginalize Michael's talent and those 84 Grammys proves when they stood at the podium together

Quincy always said Michael was always the most professional and prepared musical talent he has ever worked with

All this flack started around 2010 when someone put the story out Quincy never liked the song Billie Jean when the truth was that he only felt that the intro was too long

And everything isnt about sources. Every single thing said should not have to be proven by a source

But to answer the question, Michael's attempt to reach out to Quincy to collaborate together once again was revealed to and reported by black radio, news entertainment sources

I dont see why this would be so hard to believe when collaborators and group members reunite all time after years of not working together

Prime example is Janet Jackson where after 18 years has reunited with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis
 
It is not about a bias, the facts prove it and show

Teddy Riley and Rodney Jerkins produced one of his albums

Quincy produced three if his albums. Those are facts

When Michael and Quincy collaborated, they were creating groundbreaking music together....Michael hired Teddy Riley and Jerkins to incorporate sounds that were already popular on the scene. These are facts

When MJ worked with Quincy they also incorporated already popular sounds then. Disco anyone?

Quincy has never tried to diminish or marginalize Michael's talent and those 84 Grammys proves when they stood at the podium together

Quincy always said Michael was always the most professional and prepared musical talent he has ever worked with

Not always. Quincy was nice to Michael while they were working together. He remained somewhat nice until his death, but after his death he said lots of rude things which were uncalled for and especially low because MJ was now dead and it was like stabbing someone in the back.

All this flack started around 2010 when someone put the story out Quincy never liked the song Billie Jean when the truth was that he only felt that the intro was too long

No it did not start because of that story about Billie Jean and you know that because it's been already explained to you in another thread. There have been interviews that Quincy gave that upset fans. Diminishing MJ's talent and talking rude about him - inlcuding below the belt hits about his children. Totally unnecessary. You can try to whitewash Quincy all you want but fans see those interviews and decide for themselves about whether Quincy did all that or not. And a lot of fans were upset by the things he said. As simple as that.

And everything isnt about sources. Every single thing said should not have to be proven by a source

When you talk about things as if they were facts you should be able to point out a credible source. If you just said, "this and this was a rumour I heard" that would be all right but you always refer to these rumours that you like or your opinions as if they were unquestionable facts. That's why I felt the need to clarify that what you say here about Invincible is nothing but an uncorroborated rumour that you say you once heared on the radio, but there is no another, credible source for it.


But to answer the question, Michael's attempt to reach out to Quincy to collaborate together once again was revealed to and reported by black radio, news entertainment sources

Please provide credible sources.


I dont see why this would be so hard to believe when collaborators and group members reunite all time after years of not working together

Prime example is Janet Jackson where after 18 years has reunited with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis

Just because something is theoretically possible it does not mean it is true. Just because someone else reunited with an old collaborator does not mean MJ wanted to collaborate with Q on Invincible. Janet's reunion with Jam & Lewis is no proof for Michael wanting to work with Quincy on Invincible.

ETA: I recommend you to check out this thread: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...d-Michael-What-s-Q-s-problem?highlight=quincy

And there was another interview where he made unnecessary remarks about MJ's skin and his children.

So, no, it's not about that silly Billie Jean thing.
 
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When MJ worked with Quincy they also incorporated already popular sounds then. Disco anyone?



Not always. Quincy was nice to Michael while they were working together. He remained somewhat nice until his death, but after his death he said lots of rude things which were uncalled for and especially low because MJ was now dead and it was like stabbing someone in the back.



No it did not start because of that story about Billie Jean and you know that because it's been already explained to you in another thread. There have been interviews that Quincy gave that upset fans. Diminishing MJ's talent and talking rude about him - inlcuding below the belt hits about his children. Totally unnecessary. You can try to whitewash Quincy all you want but fans see those interviews and decide for themselves about whether Quincy did all that or not. And a lot of fans were upset by the things he said. As simple as that.



When you talk about things as if they were facts you should be able to point out a credible source. If you just said, "this and this was a rumour I heard" that would be all right but you always refer to these rumours that you like or your opinions as if they were unquestionable facts. That's why I felt the need to clarify that what you say here about Invincible is nothing but an uncorroborated rumour that you say you once heared on the radio, but there is no another, credible source for it.




Please provide credible sources.




Just because something is theoretically possible it does not mean it is true. Just because someone else reunited with an old collaborator does not mean MJ wanted to collaborate with Q on Invincible. Janet's reunion with Jam & Lewis is no proof for Michael wanting to work with Quincy on Invincible.


The myth is that Off The Wall was a disco hybrid when the truth it liberated the sounds of past luminaries who represented jazz, blues, and soul, luminaries that were denied their rightful place due to past prejudices

There hasnt been one time where Off The Wall or Dont Stop Til You Get Enough made me think of disco, by the time OTW was released, Disco had already received major backlash by top 40 radio which segmented the airwaves heading into the 80s

Quincy is the last person who stabbed MJ in the back

Those obstacles were already topics of discussion by the late 80s heading into the 90s

Ill respond to the rest later
 
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Bringing Brighter Days;4104345 said:
All this flack started around 2010 when someone put the story out Quincy never liked the song Billie Jean when the truth was that he only felt that the intro was too long

And everything isnt about sources. Every single thing said should not have to be proven by a source

But to answer the question, Michael's attempt to reach out to Quincy to collaborate together once again was revealed to and reported by black radio, news entertainment sources

I dont see why this would be so hard to believe when collaborators and group members reunite all time after years of not working together

Prime example is Janet Jackson where after 18 years has reunited with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis

Keep in mind that many of these people (radio reporters in the entertainment field, etc.) earn a living by spreading rumors & gossips through the media channels.

This phenomenon is a necessary evil in the showbiz industry & is as old as the age of this industry itself.

Regarding ‘Billie Jean’, the fact is that Quincy Jones dismissed all the other mixes of this song in favor of mix 2.

Also, Janet did not reunite with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis after 18 years. These two producers have been in charge of the majority of her albums throughout her career. The same applies to her forthcoming album.

Finally, the fact that reunions happen all the time does not mean that MJ was (in a way) obliged to collaborate again with his old producer (Quincy Jones) for ‘Invincible’. I think it is rather naïve for anyone to believe that kind of logic.
 
mj_frenzy;4104352 said:
Keep in mind that many of these people (radio reporters in the entertainment field, etc.) earn a living by spreading rumors & gossips through the media channels.

This phenomenon is a necessary evil in the showbiz industry & is as old as the age of this industry itself.

Regarding ‘Billie Jean’, the fact is that Quincy Jones dismissed all the other mixes of this song in favor of mix 2.

Also, Janet did not reunite with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis after 18 years. These two producers have been in charge of the majority of her albums throughout her career. The same applies to her forthcoming album.

Finally, the fact that reunions happen all the time does not mean that MJ was (in a way) obliged to collaborate again with his old producer (Quincy Jones) for ‘Invincible’. I think it is rather naïve for anyone to believe that kind of logic.

Last album of Janet's Jam and Lewis primarily produced was the velvet rope in 97, All For You in 2001 was not the classic sound as before, thats well over a decade from 2015
 
The myth is that Off The Wall was a disco hybrid when the truth it liberated the sounds of past luminaries who represented jazz, blues, and soul, luminaries that were denied their rightful place due to past prejudices

There hasnt been one time where Off The Wall or Dont Stop Til You Get Enough made me think of disco, by the time OTW was released, Disco had already received major backlash by top 40 radio which segmented the airwaves heading into the 80s

OTW is not a disco record totally, but it has disco elements and influences the same way Dangerous has New Jack Swing. I actually see a lot of parallels there. OTW is often labelled a disco record and Dangerous a New Jack Swing record but actually neither is your typical disco/NJS record and neither is really a disco/NJS record. In both cases MJ took the genre to another level. That does not mean the influence and elements are not there.
 
And everything isnt about sources. Every single thing said should not have to be proven by a source

The alternative is to believe whatever rumour/hearsay comes about, which especially in the case of Michael Jackson, is primarily false, hence why the vast majority back up their information with a credible source, or require one to believe whatever is being said at that moment. The Q/MJ "spat" if you will had been talked about prior to 2010 amongst the fandom, and it wasn't just about Billie Jean, and he did talk down about Michael, but like Respect said, let's not dredge up old battles.

Back on topic. And. Go.
 
Bringing Brighter Days;4104355 said:
Last album of Janet's Jam and Lewis primarily produced was the velvet rope in 97, All For You in 2001 was not the classic sound as before, thats well over a decade from 2015

These two producers have been continuously with Janet in the studio for at least the last 20 – 25 years. Personally, I see no reunion.

But, I am afraid this thread is getting off topic.
 
I love the Bottles percussion and that bass wowwwwwwwwww!
 
That is correct....the majority of her albums, her most successful albums

Just like Quincy with Michael

Real history is being reinterpreted to fit a narrative that Michael achieved what he did by himself when everyone needs a foundation

When OTW and Thriller was released, Michael said Quincy was his musical mentor starting out as a solo artist just as Jazz trumpeter Clark Terry was Quincy's mentor
 
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I absolutely love DSTYGE's unique sound and also the demo from Off The Wall Special Edition - the sound of the cow bells, bottles and guitar is amazing like the song itself! Irresistible beat! :chillin:
 
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