Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I have only casually followed this since I was not interested in the Michael album, but there were some heavy hitters in the list that said Michael sang on the Cascio songs. (Bruce, Greg, etc)
Who came out later and disputed that?
You can hear Bruce Swedien himself say "it sounds like him but there's no guarantee" at 1.21 in the Faking Michael trailer. That's very different from what Weitzman said in his statement ("They (the producers they invited to the listening session) all confirmed that the vocal was definitely Michael"). And that's just Bruce. The statement also listed Michael Prince as one of the producers and he says in the trailer that he told them at the time that there were too many audio dead ends for Cascio/Porte to be telling the truth. And of course we already knew Cory Rooney and Taryll said the vocals were fake too. Taryll says Teddy Riley told him the same thing.

And this is just based on the limited information we have. I'm sure when Damien releases his podcast we'll learn more. But it's clear they blatantly lied about that infamous listening session.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

You can hear Bruce Swedien himself say "it sounds like him but there's no guarantee" at 1.21 in the Faking Michael trailer. That's very different from what Weitzman said in his statement ("They (the producers they invited to the listening session) all confirmed that the vocal was definitely Michael"). And that's just Bruce. The statement also listed Michael Prince as one of the producers and he says in the trailer that he told them at the time that there were too many audio dead ends for Cascio/Porte to be telling the truth. And of course we already knew Cory Rooney and Taryll said the vocals were fake too. Taryll says Teddy Riley told him the same thing.

And this is just based on the limited information we have. I'm sure when Damien releases his podcast we'll learn more. But it's clear they blatantly lied about that infamous listening session.

I'm not trying to be a downer but I don't see anything groundbreaking coming from the podcast. Interesting info sure, but nothing that could be used legally.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

^Hey Vera, about that CD recording with Porte vocals that were submitted few days after Michael passed.. were there all 12 songs? Or just some of them. And then they registered more afterwards?

How does the Porte demos sound? Is instrumental exactly the same on those registered tracks as on leaked Cascio tracks?

I'll leave it to Damien to share the details. It's his story to tell - my place is to see justice in court .

I'm not trying to be a downer but I don't see anything groundbreaking coming from the podcast. Interesting info sure, but nothing that could be used legally.

The complaint is based on his findings, and they were cited in subsequent court papers as well. This case probably wouldn't have happened if not for his research.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Damien shields irritates me.....he always has.
He's one of the nicest people I have ever dealt with in the MJ fan community. Why does he irritate you?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I'll leave it to Damien to share the details. It's his story to tell - my place is to see justice in court .



The complaint is based on his findings, and they were cited in subsequent court papers as well. This case probably wouldn't have happened if not for his research.

I appreciate that but to me that's a bit concerning. Why is he putting it all in a podcast when it is the basis of your case? Surely you wouldn't want to be doing that if it is relevant to the case? I'm not trying to be awkward I'm just curious. I do appreciate what you're doing.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I appreciate that but to me that's a bit concerning. Why is he putting it all in a podcast when it is the basis of your case? Surely you wouldn't want to be doing that if it is relevant to the case? I'm not trying to be awkward I'm just curious. I do appreciate what you're doing.

Why not? The case is in public court, all filings are in public domain, I gain nothing from secrecy. As to the copyrighted songs in particular, he heard them before I did anyway.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I'll leave it to Damien to share the details. It's his story to tell - my place is to see justice in court .



The complaint is based on his findings, and they were cited in subsequent court papers as well. This case probably wouldn't have happened if not for his research.
Seriously? I'm surprised at that.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Seriously? I'm surprised at that.

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned at him just revealing all of the details of his research. I suppose it'll depend on when he releases it.
 
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Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Still wonder what this video is:

 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

What exactly has Damien Shields contributed financially in this campaign?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Still wonder what this video is:

It's footage from the Invincible sessions that was being sold years ago on Ebay.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

It's footage from the Invincible sessions that was being sold years ago on Ebay.

Never seen that before. I'm assuming someone and bought it and we'll never see it. Lol.
 
Damien Shields said:
Precisely this! And don’t forget your children’s private handwritten diary entries can now be published as Mark Twain literature. As long as the publisher ‘didn’t know’ it’s not Twain’s work & as long as consumers are creating a ‘public debate’ by alleging that the work is fake.


Gosh, when will they learn they are not understanding the ruling at all?
Selling forgeries is illegal (in the USA in general and in California, too, the Californian Civil Code makes that very clear [besides that it's illegal in a lot of countries]).
The appeal court's ruling didn't say anything contrary in that regard. What it did say is that the examples given by Serova's lawyers do not constitute "commercial speech", instead they fall under "freedom of expression" which is granted to all parties by the First Amendment. Thus there's nothing relevant for going after Sony/Estate the way the case has been built.

The public debate is a separate issue that is only connected with the anti-SLAPP motion in this case - and the Supreme Court will without a doubt uphold the current ruling.
Sony/Estate have not been charged with fraud claims, THAT was a huge error in reasoning by Serova's lawyers. Only in a trial there could be a ruling whether any actual fraud did occur or not and Sony/Estate could not have been dropped from the case this easily.

Even good lawyers can oversee a strategic mistake like that.


But again: What Shields & his pals don't get is that there has been absolutely NO(!) precedence and NO(!!!) court ruling that would allegedly legalize selling forgeries.
Facts are important. Twisting a court ruling intentionally or due to severe lack of knowledge/understanding of the law isn't the right way.


If the publisher didn't know about selling forgeries, it's still a case of constructive fraud which is a felony in California (see its Civil Code).

And for something to be a forgery, it doesn't matter what some folks in a "public debate" might say...


If for example, the case against Cascio/Porte were to prove what the plaintiff claims, Sony/Estate would then thereafter be forced by the law to stop selling the songs among other things. These are facts.


PS: I've seen them saying stuff like "this would not have happened in the UK" and citing a fraud definition by UK law. Probably because that's all Thomson could come up with. It's NOT any different in California, USA. Wonder why Thomson is unable to extend his research to the law that matters - it's not UK.
Since Serova's lawyers have not explained this detail to her, I conclude that the case was mishandled in that regard because anti-SLAPP is a common strategic device used by corporate defendants very often and a fraud claim including constructive fraud would have been essential.
 
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Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Laws regarding frauds and forgeries have been around since the beginning of time. Infuriating to see this ruling misconstrued that all of the sudden it's just fine to sell forgeries/fraud merchandise in the future.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

PS: I've seen them saying stuff like "this would not have happened in the UK" and citing a fraud definition by UK law. Probably because that's all Thomson could come up with. It's NOT any different in California, USA. Wonder why Thomson is unable to extend his research to the law that matters - it's not UK.
Since Serova's lawyers have not explained this detail to her, I conclude that the case was mishandled in that regard because anti-SLAPP is a common strategic device used by corporate defendants very often and a fraud claim including constructive fraud would have been essential.

Thomson is an idiot who often spouts nonsense [his latest regarding MJ wearing a nose piece was special] so this is hardly surprising. He used to work for The Sun and I'm almost sure was a known Jackson hater [his piece of Michael's London TII announcement was very negative]
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Charles thomson? Yes an alledged known member of another mj board who hated on mj. Well known to those around at the time.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Yes, I do not trust Thomson either. Granted, he wrote some excellent articles in the Huffington Post after Michael's death, but if you follow him up and all the things he's saying in his twitter and so on you can see his real face, you can call him dubious, to say at least. He is still active for the Sun I think and wants to be seen as a serious writer, lol.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Thomson is an idiot who often spouts nonsense [his latest regarding MJ wearing a nose piece was special] so this is hardly surprising. He used to work for The Sun and I'm almost sure was a known Jackson hater [his piece of Michael's London TII announcement was very negative]

None of them are making themselves look good. The fact that they can't seem to comprehend the basics of something they claim to care so much about is concerning to say the least.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I'm not sure how these legal things work but are people expecting that the songs will be proven fake? I don't think that will happen if Estate or somebody else involved doesn't admit anything. Also I'm pretty sure Estate thinks they are real.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Yes, I do not trust Thomson either. Granted, he wrote some excellent articles in the Huffington Post after Michael's death, but if you follow him up and all the things he's saying in his twitter and so on you can see his real face, you can call him dubious, to say at least. He is still active for the Sun I think and wants to be seen as a serious writer, lol.

He's one of the 'post-death' people I take absolutely no notice of or have any regard for. You contribute to the problem when Michael is alive, I'm sorry but it's far too little and far far too late to change your tune now. The guy is clueless.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I'm not sure how these legal things work but are people expecting that the songs will be proven fake? I don't think that will happen if Estate or somebody else involved doesn't admit anything. Also I'm pretty sure Estate thinks they are real.

Estate know they are fake. McClain know it since day one and Branca learned a bit later.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Thomson is an idiot who often spouts nonsense [his latest regarding MJ wearing a nose piece was special] so this is hardly surprising. He used to work for The Sun and I'm almost sure was a known Jackson hater [his piece of Michael's London TII announcement was very negative]
Which piece are you referring to? Are you perhaps thinking of the piece Syl Mortilla wrote?
 
SoCav;4230953 said:
Which piece are you referring to? Are you perhaps thinking of the piece Syl Mortilla wrote?

To be fair, I was speaking off information I didn’t see first hand. I was informed he wrote negative articles about Michael and was The Sun’s Michael Jackson “guy”.

Did he not write negative pieces about Michael?
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Far too much heat being placed on Damien and co instead of where it should be placed (estate/sony). They may not be perfect, but at least they are trying to do something about this, for the good of Michael and his fans.
 
WildStyle;4230969 said:
Far too much heat being placed on Damien and co instead of where it should be placed (estate/sony). They may not be perfect, but at least they are trying to do something about this, for the good of Michael and his fans.

That’s the thing, I think everyone knows and feels strongly towards Estate but misinforming people about the case is a terrible move and is not a good look.

They’re trying but spreading false information is not helping anyone.

This is newer so might appear to be more heat being placed in their direction as Sony and co have had 8 years of it.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Far too much heat being placed on Damien and co instead of where it should be placed (estate/sony). They may not be perfect, but at least they are trying to do something about this, for the good of Michael and his fans.

With too much heat placed on fans,who don't agree with his opinion on the authenticity issue.
"So called Fans"to quote his words,on the posts he provided on this site (well,8 posts to be exact),and what financial contribution to this ongoing court case?
No,but in his own words,a book to be written,once the case is over,and who's profiting from that I wonder?
Damien can claim to be the Messiah,but I'm not a disciple..
Another moneymaker from a long list..
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

With too much heat placed on fans,who don't agree with his opinion on the authenticity issue.
"So called Fans"to quote his words,on the posts he provided on this site (well,8 posts to be exact),and what financial contribution to this ongoing court case?
No,but in his own words,a book to be written,once the case is over,and who's profiting from that I wonder?
Damien can claim to be the Messiah,but I'm not a disciple..
Another moneymaker from a long list..
I don't understand the first part of your post, but the idea that he is profiting from this work and calling him a moneymaker is just ludicrous. First of all, even if he did make money by writing his books, why is that a problem as long as he is doing good work? Writing a book takes a lot of time and effort, and is a job like any other. Why would we expect authors to do their work for free?

But that's actually besides the point. Because what makes this allegation even more ridiculous is that there simply is no serious money to be made in writing positive/non-tabloidy books about Michael Jackson, LET ALONE when you're self-publishing like Damien has done. In fact, I would be highly surprised if he even broke even on his Xscape Origins project.

Most likely, the same will be true for the Cascio book once it comes out. And he's spent the better part of 8 years working on it, which includes significant financial costs for trips he made to the US to interview people. But he's not motivated by a desire to make money, he's doing this out of love for Michael. The reason he wants to have his information out in book form is primarily so that it becomes a historical document which will allow people years from now to find it in a comprehensive, digestible format. Websites come and go but books have a long shelf life. Besides, he's also going to release the outcome of his investigation on his upcoming free podcast.

I just don't see how anyone can have a problem with this, even if you are not interested in the project.
 
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Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

Charles thomson? Yes an alledged known member of another mj board who hated on mj. Well known to those around at the time.

Frank Cascio told me that he is the one who turned Charles Thomson around and was instrumental in making him change his mind about Michael. Somewhat ironic.
 
Re: Estate, Cascio and Porte Sued Over Three Songs on the "Michael" Album - Vera Senova Class Action

I don't understand the first part of your post, but the idea that he is profiting from this work and calling him a moneymaker is just ludicrous. First of all, even if he did make money by writing his books, why is that a problem as long as he is doing good work? Writing a book takes a lot of time and effort, and is a job like any other. Why would we expect authors to do their work for free?

But that's actually besides the point. Because what makes this allegation even more ridiculous is that there simply is no serious money to be made in writing positive/non-tabloidy books about Michael Jackson, LET ALONE when you're self-publishing like Damien has done. In fact, I would be highly surprised if he even broke even on his Xscape Origins project.

Most likely, the same will be true for the Cascio book once it comes out. And he's spent the better part of 8 years working on it, which includes significant financial costs for trips he made to the US to interview people. But he's not motivated by a desire to make money, he's doing this out of love for Michael. The reason he wants to have his information out in book form is primarily so that it becomes a historical document which will allow people years from now to find it in a comprehensive, digestible format. Websites come and go but books have a long shelf life. Besides, he's also going to release the outcome of his investigation on his upcoming free podcast.

I just don't see how anyone can have a problem with this, even if you are not interested in the project.

How is that good work,when you only interview those people,that agree with you?
Why not a balanced perspective,for people to decide for themselves,instead of belittling the people he's supposedly getting the truth for..the FANS!?
Still for the LOVE of Michael?
 
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