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Feedback Requested: Bad25 Sales. Why low sales?

LMAT said:
In my opinion, the BAD25 Deluxe package is absolutely beautiful and I love every bit of it, save for the remixes which I still haven't listened to. My personal favorites are the demos and the Wembley concert. For me, the quality of the DVD was just fine; it was recorded in 1988 for heaven's sake and I understood the Estate's explanation for releasing that particular date.

Just like others have mentioned, the promotion for the total release left much to be desired, beginning with the difficulty in
finding the pepsi cans. The universally lauded documentary really should have been widely released to theaters rather than
buried in a severely cut version on ABC and a wait of 4-5 months for the DVD release.

I was fortunate to see the full doc in LA at Graumann's and nothing compares to that experience. I know Spike Lee pushed to have it released widely but was unsuccessful.

I also wonder about the various different packages for BAD25...which ones were counted for total sales?

We are now in the digital age and my hope is that for the next release, an up to date market promotion is utilized.
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this i was very very happy with bad 25 i got non fans to buy it that follow me on facebook a new song well new to the world song like say free should have been released
 
Happy New Year. I've wanted to contribute some of my thoughts regarding Bad 25. This is almost more of a general suggestion rather than a specific critique of Bad 25. I hope it isn't too late to put my two cents in!

To focus on the positive, I can honestly say the only justice, in my opinion, that MJ has received was through Spike Lee's documentary. He focused on Michael's genius in its purest organic form. No one and I repeat NO ONE will ever duplicate the magic MJ created with his artistry. I believe this is where the Estate has failed. I highly anticipate anything "new" coming from MJ. However, I don't want to hear demos, I don't want to hear songs that were started by MJ, then finished by another producer. This, does a terrible deed to how MJ approached his work and thereafter released it. He'd be terrified by some of the material that has already been released.

Now, I will say in the months before MJ passed, I was enthralled with old clips on youtube. I scoured youtube as if I were researching for a project. I looked at the old variety show the Jacksons had in the 70's. I looked at old performance clips, interviews. I even looked up the cartoon series. I just read today that a Blu Ray DVD release is planned for the cartoon series in the next month or so. People need to be reminded of the magnetic performer he was. The world needs to be reintroduced to the budding genius that would eventually change the world. Listening to a young enigmatic old soul belting out his heart in "Big Boy" is hypnotizing. It's fascinating to actually see the influences in Michael's life manifest in his work throughout his career. I just finished watching "Chaplin", starring Robert Downey, jr. Knowing how much Chaplin influenced Michael, I saw the lessons Michael learned from him just from watching the film! It made me appreciate the studious person MJ was. I am so sure there are home movies and interviews that no one has ever seen and that whoever owns them will be happy to provide. Maybe audio notes MJ made for himself. I absolutely love listening to him talk about the things he is passionate about. For example, the last Ebony interview Michael provided was really captivating to listen to online. It's a blessing to hear the heart of a genius. Let us get to know Michael Joseph Jackson all over again.

People are too comfortable with being saturated with the International superstar, the most famous man in the world who was wrongfully labeled as strange and an oddball. Michael was a beautiful spirit and unfortunately, many who have turned their backs on him have forgotten that. It's not their fault for the most part. People have fickle memories. Out of sight, out of mind. Dig through the archives that HAVE been preserved. If someone could somehow put the Victory tour on DVD that would be absolute GOLD. Or rather absolute PLATINUM. Give them the old MJ treatment and perfect a package that will entrance the public. Give them an offer they can't refuse. Give us the genius that we fell in love with. That would be the highest form of respect we could ever pay him. To let him know that he succeeded in binding his soul to his work. That's what he always wanted. Bad 25 just did not feel like an honest heartfelt effort to wow the world. When MJ was creating Bad, he scribbled 100,000,000 on his mirror to remind him his ambitions were astronomical. And the beautifully magical thing about it is no one could really doubt he would be able to do it. If anyone could, it would have been him and him alone.

Another suggested item of interest could even be Michael's very little known about speech given at Oxford University in 2001. Listening to his words once again shines the light on what an extraordinary, intuitive soul he was. Given the tragedy just occurred in Sandy Hook, CT, Michael's words are hauntingly insightful. It helps draw appreciation to the very best he had to offer: his heart. What a gift!

A booklet of Michael's artwork would be a gem.

I hope my two cents help. I will forever be dedicated to MJ and honoring him. I didn't get a tatoo in dedication to him for nothing. I meant it!

Peace and love

MJForever
Nikki Reese
 
Moonwalker117 said:
I would have preferred to have the full concert on cd as i like to perform to them so its a little annoying in places.
I was disappointed with the low video quality of the yokohama concert as when they talked about releasing that in HD instead of wembley i was expecting good quality ; (
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They didn't say anything about Yokohama concert being HD. Yokohama concert can't be HD because it is from tape. I hope they find the concert films reels from Bad Tour so they can release Michael Jackson concert in HD.
 
The big problem I see is advertising. I have met people in their 20s who have Michael work on VCR tapes, have been listening to him since childhood, LOVE his music, and did not even know there was a BAD campaign. They are on the internet all the time too, but are not on fan forums. They were shocked when I told them about the BAD campaign and asked me what is it. This idea Sony and Estate has about telling information to the fan forums and letting them do most of the advertising is not working. There are too many current artists out there competing for attention. Michael is no longer here so let's have some good official promotion for his projects!!! Advertising worked for TII, so let's hope they realize this and advertise for future projects.

By the way does anyone know how sales did for Christmas?
 
I did not buy the album and have still not heard the new songs. But there is nothing to be done about the reason.

I know it's not that expensive but I'm not in a position to be buying myself luxuries, and that is the only reason. It's not too expensive, it just is for me. I wish so much to buy not just the album, but more merchandise as well, but I'm not able to.

But I'm just one person, and I don't feel like anything was overpriced, so I don't think this is a common enough problem. On a more positive note, I got a new job and will be able to get my copy soon!

In terms of what is released, I am just happy to hear what is there. I understand it's not finished and there are various reasons why they were not released. I loved the Michael album because I accepted that and too that into account, I still have high expectations and expect those working on it to care, but I felt it was completed with Michaels spirit at heart. I know that it will never be the same, but my curiosity will always get the better of me and any taste of fragmented work that is available to me, I'd love to hear and experience.

Lark
 
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TNR1173 said:
Happy New Year. I've wanted to contribute some of my thoughts regarding Bad 25. This is almost more of a general suggestion rather than a specific critique of Bad 25. I hope it isn't too late to put my two cents in!

To focus on the positive, I can honestly say the only justice, in my opinion, that MJ has received was through Spike Lee's documentary. He focused on Michael's genius in its purest organic form. No one and I repeat NO ONE will ever duplicate the magic MJ created with his artistry. I believe this is where the Estate has failed. I highly anticipate anything "new" coming from MJ. However, I don't want to hear demos, I don't want to hear songs that were started by MJ, then finished by another producer. This, does a terrible deed to how MJ approached his work and thereafter released it. He'd be terrified by some of the material that has already been released.

Now, I will say in the months before MJ passed, I was enthralled with old clips on youtube. I scoured youtube as if I were researching for a project. I looked at the old variety show the Jacksons had in the 70's. I looked at old performance clips, interviews. I even looked up the cartoon series. I just read today that a Blu Ray DVD release is planned for the cartoon series in the next month or so. People need to be reminded of the magnetic performer he was. The world needs to be reintroduced to the budding genius that would eventually change the world. Listening to a young enigmatic old soul belting out his heart in "Big Boy" is hypnotizing. It's fascinating to actually see the influences in Michael's life manifest in his work throughout his career. I just finished watching "Chaplin", starring Robert Downey, jr. Knowing how much Chaplin influenced Michael, I saw the lessons Michael learned from him just from watching the film! It made me appreciate the studious person MJ was. I am so sure there are home movies and interviews that no one has ever seen and that whoever owns them will be happy to provide. Maybe audio notes MJ made for himself. I absolutely love listening to him talk about the things he is passionate about. For example, the last Ebony interview Michael provided was really captivating to listen to online. It's a blessing to hear the heart of a genius. Let us get to know Michael Joseph Jackson all over again.

People are too comfortable with being saturated with the International superstar, the most famous man in the world who was wrongfully labeled as strange and an oddball. Michael was a beautiful spirit and unfortunately, many who have turned their backs on him have forgotten that. It's not their fault for the most part. People have fickle memories. Out of sight, out of mind. Dig through the archives that HAVE been preserved. If someone could somehow put the Victory tour on DVD that would be absolute GOLD. Or rather absolute PLATINUM. Give them the old MJ treatment and perfect a package that will entrance the public. Give them an offer they can't refuse. Give us the genius that we fell in love with. That would be the highest form of respect we could ever pay him. To let him know that he succeeded in binding his soul to his work. That's what he always wanted. Bad 25 just did not feel like an honest heartfelt effort to wow the world. When MJ was creating Bad, he scribbled 100,000,000 on his mirror to remind him his ambitions were astronomical. And the beautifully magical thing about it is no one could really doubt he would be able to do it. If anyone could, it would have been him and him alone.

Another suggested item of interest could even be Michael's very little known about speech given at Oxford University in 2001. Listening to his words once again shines the light on what an extraordinary, intuitive soul he was. Given the tragedy just occurred in Sandy Hook, CT, Michael's words are hauntingly insightful. It helps draw appreciation to the very best he had to offer: his heart. What a gift!

A booklet of Michael's artwork would be a gem.

I hope my two cents help. I will forever be dedicated to MJ and honoring him. I didn't get a tatoo in dedication to him for nothing. I meant it!

Peace and love

MJForever
Nikki Reese
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Great first post and I agree. Welcome to the fanmily.
 
There was little not to say no marketing strategy to support the launch.
The Estate may be very good to close business deals but are weak in term of GTM.

You can have the best thing to sell but if no one know it exists, you can wait for long for making $.


Do we know how many albums and or DVD have been sold so far ?
 
NO PROMOTION..Especially here in Greece SONY is sleeping.I know people they did not know about BAD25. People who like and hear Michael. I believe that Sony didnt want to promote it
 
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Has anyone official responded to the feedback? Are people taking notice about what may help in the future, or are simply discussing this for ourselves.
 
nickzark said:
NO PROMOTION..Especially here in Greece SONY is sleeping.I know people they did not know about BAD25. People who like and hear Michael. I believe that Sony didnt want to promote it
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What? Are you really serious? Do you think they would invest so much money in a deal and not promote it because they DO NOT WANT, and as a consequence NOT to get the money back? Sorry, but just no.
 
Dorian said:
What? Are you really serious? Do you think they would invest so much money in a deal and not promote it because they DO NOT WANT, and as a consequence NOT to get the money back? Sorry, but just no.
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sorry but here in Greece i believe it was so.Dont know in other countries
 
Considering the problems Greece has, it more then understandble why Sony didn't bother promoting there.

And what promotion did Greece ever seen of Michael product in the past?

Really, that promotion blaming is for no reason. You don't spend money for promotions in countries where you don't have market to make profit.
 
There was few promotion in France either.
Despite that, The album was #1 on amazon.fr during about 1 week or so.
If they had made much more noise with campaigns the sales would have been better, for sure.
I know in my entourage (colleagues etc), people who love MJ music but are not following what s going on dedicated forum.
Those people were not aware of BAD25. I had to tell them.
 
I didn't buy it when it came out cause I didn't have the money. My daughter got me the deluxe edition this Christmas and I love it. For future reference though I do not like remixes. I would like to see more untouched demos/songs.

I know some people have said that they didn't like the dvd that much but I loved it. To me is it one of my favorite concert dvds that I have. The other two I have both to me have to much of the audience in them and not enough of Michael. This one it centered around the stage and Michael and I thought it was real cool with the band doing their thing while he was off backstage.

As far as marketing there really wasn't that much marketing of the product. The fans knew about it but I don't think that the average person knew about it. I didn't see one commercial about Bad25. Not as bad as with Invincible where it seemed Sony tried to push it under the rug. That record I did not even know about til after he passed. As a fan I most definitely want more albums with more untouched demo/songs. I can't wait til I get to hear Slave to the Rhythm on an album.
 
Smooth72 said:
I believe that people are thinking of another greatest hits album which it is. I think a live album with a HQ concert would have been much better. The next project needs to be a new album of complete tracks from Invinceable and after. NEW music is the only thing that will sell. Not demos complete great tracks! The longer they wait to do this the less effect the music will have. They will become dated.
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I agree with you about the new music, but after the "Michael" album mess, will they want to do it? If they release unfinished demos of the new music will people in general like it even if fans do? If they finish the tracks with other musicians, even those who historically worked with Michael in the studio, will we have the same mess? I am listening to "Michael" recently, and it is good IMO. I know that is heresy to some, but I like the music.
 
The promotion and product ideas for Bad25 were great in my opinion; Live DVD, Live CD, Quality Demo's, Remixes (with quite big names such as AfroJack, Pit Bull, Nero), Pepsi Cans, Deluxe and Collectors packaging, Documentary on TV and theaters, tv commercials... This all could have generated more attention if the timing/distribution/advertising was better, which caused people not to know what we were celebrating and what they could buy to continue that celebration at home.

Family of mine saw the BAD25 documentary on tv, but didn't know it was in celebration of the Bad/Bad25 release, they saw it as another nice MJ documentary. The Pepsi cans and the very special Wembley BAD Tour concert DVD could have brought the most nostalgia if they were advertised well on tv/internet ads. The original Bad Pepsi commercial in cristal clear quality would have wowed people from their couches. If the pepsi cans would have been more similar to the cans from the 80s and widely available in stores at the time of the CD/DVD release, people would have cut up in the nostalgia more. Or they could have 'over-layer' the old pepsi logo in the commercial with the new BAD25 logo. A new Bad Tour related special (live footage from the dvd mixed with some additional backstage footage) could have been marketed as the big TV event to be broadcasted simultaneously on tv in different countries (although the picture quality might not be from todays standard). Relive the times.
 
Urvino said:
A new Bad Tour related special (live footage from the dvd mixed with some additional backstage footage) could have been marketed as the big TV event to be broadcasted simultaneously on tv in different countries (although the picture quality might not be from todays standard). Relive the times.
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Agreed. Like they used to with MJ short films. Would have been amazing.
 
Tygger said:
Agreed. Like they used to with MJ short films. Would have been amazing.
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If the estate is reading this!!! New music completed by Michael Jackson needs to be released soon. The strategy of realeaseing around the Holliday time is a good idea but used up. New music for the summertime months. Fresh dance tracks, cruising with the windows rolled down, just feeling it. Most if you may not agree but let's not have anymore anniveries any time soon. There is plenty of time to comeback and revisit at a later time. Let face it if we just proceed with the anniversary releases we will be done in no time. We can't have BAD 30 now can we. Release some new toons and a high quality concert from any Era promote with studio footage making the tracks and we should be heading in a great direction. Let Michael promote with his voice and message. Studio footage would go alone ways. We don't need videos like hold my hand or Hollywood tonight they are a waste of time and money. As I stated on a previous post don't wait to long to do this estate there is a window of opportunity with all of this. I can think of a few track that would do really well. Just my too cents but I bet it's worth a lot more than that.
 
Personally I think he would have liked to know that people still liked what has been given to the public so far of his unrealed work. You have to remember he didn't release alot of his work because they just could not fit them all on the album he was working on at the time. He was very happy with alot of his work just unable to send it out to the public.
 
Smooth72 said:
If the estate is reading this!!! New music completed by Michael Jackson needs to be released soon. The strategy of realeaseing around the Holliday time is a good idea but used up. New music for the summertime months. Fresh dance tracks, cruising with the windows rolled down, just feeling it. Most if you may not agree but let's not have anymore anniveries any time soon. There is plenty of time to comeback and revisit at a later time. Let face it if we just proceed with the anniversary releases we will be done in no time. We can't have BAD 30 now can we. Release some new toons and a high quality concert from any Era promote with studio footage making the tracks and we should be heading in a great direction. Let Michael promote with his voice and message. Studio footage would go alone ways. We don't need videos like hold my hand or Hollywood tonight they are a waste of time and money. As I stated on a previous post don't wait to long to do this estate there is a window of opportunity with all of this. I can think of a few track that would do really well. Just my too cents but I bet it's worth a lot more than that.
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Oh yeah, the begin of summer, sitting in the car with open windows, listening to new songs, that's so much fun :D The studio footage part is also great. I agree with you that the Estate doesn't have to do releases only when anniversary dates are coming up. They can skip some 25ths. However to come up with great products (albums) its needed to organise the unreleased material in some kind of nice catagory. I hope we won't get a release with songs from the 80s mixed with the 00s for exemple (although I didn't mind the mix of old and new on MICHAEL). And I hope the Estate does aim at releases with some kind of sonic or historic (era) unity. It's strange that I consider every unreleased material from 1998 till 2009 as new, although songs from 1998 might already be 15 years old.
 
Yeh would be great if the estate done a mj release that was spontaneous
 
Agreed Smooth72 and Urvino. Anniversaries should be skipped if they are not going to be done top notch way.

Summer would be great timing for something. I would hope for a Victory tour blue-ray/DVD and live CDs set but, they would have to recreate some of that time's elements for it to pay off I think.
 
I love Bad25! listening to the original songs brings back great memories and I just fell in love with the new songs...Price of fame and all the balads are just amazing:) and the concert is soooo cool! of course I bought the set, it worth every penny!
 
mjjmsc said:
I love Bad25! listening to the original songs brings back great memories and I just fell in love with the new songs...Price of fame and all the balads are just amazing:) and the concert is soooo cool! of course I bought the set, it worth every penny!
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Don't get me wrong Bad 25 was great! For me anyways but it did not get the attention they anticipated. The live CD and new songs were great. But for the masses you need more. The performance on the DVD was incredible but the quality of video was poor. That's plain and simple... I am a huge fan and MJ was great but I only watched it like twice in full and a few random performances. The reason only because of quality. Let's compare to TII I watched that I can't tell you how many times and still will pull it out. Wembly I can't say I will do the same. If it was of better quality for sure I would view it more. The next release has to be important. It's time to pull out some of the good stuff Estate! Michael has more. They owe it to him!
 
BAD 25 sold 250,000 worldwide to date
Many artists whose not here anymore had new releases out this year for example Elvis live album, Marvin gaye live album, the tempations greatest etc just to name a few and they didn't do as well as BAD 25. One reason why there wasn't lots of promo because they don't want to overexposed Michael's catalog where the public get tired. Also this is the itunes generation and there are very few exceptions (adele) where an artist can sell crazy and teen sensation usually sell around 3-4 million with their teen fanbase. The casual fan will always pefer getting the greatest hits album over the studio album. As for Michael the casual fan favorite is the Number Ones album.

here are some itunes updates on the Number ones album from the last 2 days
iTunes Top 10 Pop Albums

#1 Number Ones : Spain
#4 Number Ones : UK
#6 Number Ones : Ireland
#7 Number Ones : France
#8 Number Ones : Germany
#8 Number Ones : Denmark
#8 Number Ones : Netherlands
#8 Number Ones : New Zealand
#8 Number Ones : Norway
#8 Number Ones : Sweden

Http://www.apple.com/euro/itunes/cha...popalbums.html

iTunes Top 10 Pop Albums

#1 Number Ones : Spain
#4 Number Ones : UK
#6 Number Ones : France
#6 Number Ones : Germany
#6 Number Ones : Belgium
#6 Number Ones : Ireland
#8 Number Ones : New Zealand
#9 Number Ones : Norway
#9 Number Ones : Netherlands


iTunes Top 100 Downloads (Albums)


# 5 Number Ones : Spain
# 7 Number Ones : Poland
# 11 Number Ones : Russia
# 16 Number Ones : UK
# 22 Number Ones : Norway
# 24 Number Ones : Germany
# 28 Number Ones : France
# 39 Number Ones : New Zealand
# 45 Number Ones : Italy
# 45 Number Ones : Turkey
# 46 Number Ones : Denmark
# 58 Number Ones : Switzerland
# 64 King Of Pop : Austria
# 65 The Essential : India
# 70 Number Ones : Netherlands
# 92 The Essential : USA
# 159 Number Ones : Australia

which is amazing that Michael's music is still selling well.
 
At least we cannot blame Wembley for not selling as it seems to be top seller:clapping: as well Bucharest

Music DVDs selling more than 100,000: Funhouse Tour Live in Australia (Pink) 28p; Live in Australia (Andre Rieu) 21p; Hell Freezes Over (The Eagles) 20p; #1s (Michael Jackson) 21p; Live from Wembley Arena (Pink) 14p; What We Did Last Summer (Robbie Williams) 12p; Delta (Delta Goodrem) 12p; Live in Bucharest (Michael Jackson) 12p; Black and White Night (Roy Orbison) 11p; Farewell Tour 1 (The Eagles) 10p; Pulse (Pink Floyd) 10p; Greatest Hits Live (Neil Diamond) 10p; Andre Rieu At Schonnbrun Vienna 9p; Live at the Albert (Robbie Williams) 9p; The Wall (Pink Floyd) 9p; Future Sex Live at Madison Square Garden (Justin Timberlake) 9p; The Highwaymen Live (The Highwaymen) 9p. (With DVDs, platinum means 15,000 sales).

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...ralia-loved-20130110-2cilw.html#ixzz2HaDAXrTn
 
Bubs, I don't see Michael Jackson Wembly performance on this Austrailian list for 2012. It is the #1s and Bucharest DVD. If I'm reading it correctly, Bad25's Wembly did not chart because it sold less than 135,000 copies.
 
Tygger said:
Bubs, I don't see Michael Jackson Wembly performance on this Austrailian list for 2012. It is the #1s and Bucharest DVD. If I'm reading it correctly, Bad25's Wembly did not chart because it sold less than 135,000 copies.
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Sorry, you are right:blush:
When I looked the list, I saw words Live from Wembley and Michael Jackson. I put them together without seeing it was actually Pink's Wembley concert:D
Anyway, I'm happy to see Michael on the list twice:clapping:
 
They could have made the Wembley DVD contain multiple performances recorded on film spliced with the high quality Wembley audio (if they could do a convincing job of it). That way you'd have high quality video AND audio. That could have attracted more interest from the general public (and potentially upset the fans...AGAIN!), but to be honest I always thought the problem with this release was promotion.

BUT there's a problem with that theory...

In many countries, Dangerous concert outsold the Wembley concert in 2012, which seems strange because obviously Dangerous received NO PROMOTION at all, so how can we explain that phenomenon?

Maybe the person who contacted MMJC to ask why fans didn't buy the Wembley product need to consider why the general public (not fans) are still buying Dangerous instead of BAD.

If we discount promotion (because Dangerous didn't have any) as a reason, what is left?
I don't think Bucharest is more interesting than Wembley as a venue for a concert - Wembley is iconic itself, so it's not the location IMO.

Is it the video quality? I'm not sure. Are people really put off by seeing the words VHS on the DVD case?

Is it because Dangerous was more recent than BAD? Maybe.

Is it because the setlist on Dangerous is better than BAD? I'm not sure. They're quite similar IMO although songs like Black Or White might be more appealing than Heartbreak Hotel for example.

IMO BAD was more of an iconic album than Dangerous and so I would consider the tour to be more appealing, but evidence shows it's not true.
 
^^ And what about distribution? Here in my country (though admittedly this country is not representative of anything because it's a small country) I went to a store and I did see the Dangerous DVD on the shelves but not Wembley '88.

Another factor may be that people are familiar with the Dangerous concert, because many TV channels showed it, but not with Wembley'88. So even if there was no promotion for the Dangerous concert NOW but people still may be more aware of it, because TVs played it in the past and people might remember it.

And maybe the DVD quality was more off putting for many than what you assume. Even here that is the biggest controversy about it, so I don't think that factor can be overlooked.
 
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