Harry Connick, Jr. upset over MJ and Jackson 5 "racist" stage act

[000cozzie000]

No it's not and i'm black do that make me USA vs AUSTRALIAN, so i'm supposed push my history and be ashamed because i'm an american black and say oh well I don't want to seem like this is bashing australians.

I don't believe every australian find this okay, I believe some do find it's okay to crush this blackface history as a joke and tell blacks well it's just a joke move on.

I believe most people need to learn about culture history and any race people to understand their history what they had deal with hard times in their past history.

We need to be more aware and understanding, lack of understanding is what is making this topic more longer then it have to be.


Learn history before you make a bad choice

Like GM said, we know what it is now. A lot of people who know about blackface in Australia were offended by it, but the majority didn't and we weren't.

While I agree that it's always good to stay informed about other countries and cultures, sometimes it's impossible to know every little detail about every race in every country. What I can't stand is people saying "how could you not know this?!". Well, we didn't... and we're learning about it now. We don't need to be made to feel stupid about it, and we don't need other people's cultures to be forced onto us especially when they show little interest in trying to understand ours.

Great post butterflies.. you've been on point in this whole thread :clapping:

 

[144000]

Obviously cause there is nothing else much to discuss... fans are taking this out of proportion and making this thread popular when at the end of the day, no racism was intended.

That's the point people are missing. YES it was disrespectful towards Michael but racist? NO. They were mocking Michael's skin disease, it had nothing to do with race! Bad taste, was I annoyed? YES. Racist? NO.

You have to understand the nature of the segment which is about tasteless acts with no shame or talent who perform for a few seconds to get laughed at.

America has the history of the "black face" where they were INTENTIONALLY racist, not Australia. The act had nothing to do with race in Australia and what Americans have done regarding the black face has nothing to do with Australia.

so you are absolutely certain what is in the mind of every person in your country? and you are saying one country is better than another? how do you know that everybody in Australia isn't racist, and everybody in America is? the idea of this discussion is to keep it from not becoming a big deal. to keep history from repeating. no human is better than another. that's worth repeating.

 

[Goodbye Michael]

i think it can be guarantee'd that michael did not know about every culture, that would be impossible.

do you know that depending on the community it can be considered insulting if you look an aboriginal in the eye......i'm guessing no.

http://www.medicineau.net.au/clinical/abhealth/strategies.html

 

[*MissChanel*]

no. nobody is getting over anything. and it's not just exclusive to this forum. that insensitive phrase 'get over it' is how all trouble always began, and always will begin. awareness is important. the world doesn't just revolve around any one person. we have to be sensitive to each other. it's only one planet.

Yes, the rest of the world has moved on. It was yesterdays story.

Fans are making this so dramatic and are going on and on and on about it because there is no other MJ news at the moment. So yes, get over it. Its over.

 

[#1MJstan]

It's not that Americans are trying to force Australians into learning our history, it's just that, we would like for you to understand why we got in an uproar about it...We don't want you to conform to our ways, because that would imply that we are perfect and Lord knows we aren't... If an American group came down there and did something that we perceived as a tribute to Aussies but you guys found it offensive, wouldn't you all get in an uproar and tell us that it's offensive to you all... My guess would be yes, and then American would learn from that mistake..

It all boils down to the group doing an act that disrespected the Jacksons and blacks... Minorities have been the butt of many jokes and no matter where you live if someone does something that is offensive then they should be called out on it. As I said b4, in this case it's the country of Australia that is being called out...Hell next month it could be the country of lets say Iceland....

So just because no one ever did blackface in you country makes it ok?? (just asking)
And if this is what you mean, are you then saying it's ok for ppl to continue to do blackface when imitating blacks?
As for the word "JIVE", other than the dictionary, they had to get the "hip" meaning from somewhere and I would assume they would've gotten it from some American source...
I still don't think it's an US vs. AUS thing....
The group did something offensive to others and it got put on blast and now everyone has learned something from it... Well almost everyone, there will still be ppl that don't see anything wrong with blackface.

I think it's great that we talk about this race/culture thing out in the open, because everyone can learn from this discussion as long as it stays respectable... Saying "get over it" just continues to put things on the back burner.
Here is a question...
If Michael was the judge and he gave the same speech Harry did, would the ppl (who feel that we Americans are attacking you all) still feel the same way?
Would you say that MJ is enforcing his American ways/views on you all?

 

[144000]

i think it can be guarantee'd that michael did not know about every culture, that would be impossible.

do you know that depending on the community it can be considered insulting if you look an aboriginal in the eye......i'm guessing no.

http://www.medicineau.net.au/clinical/abhealth/strategies.html

well..the depths of MJ's knowledge is unknown. many have said there are depths to him that people don't know. and, as far as aboriginies..hey..i would have no trouble not insulting them, and i didn't even know, cus i don't look people in the eye at first glance. but you know what? i wouldn't go there without asking about the place and culture, first.

 

[000cozzie000]

GET OVER IT!!!!

It was not their intention to be racist. YOU choose to perceive it that way! Fact is, it had nothing to do with race.

GET OVER IT!!!

This story/American drama is dead now. Its only alive on this MJ forum cause fans got nothing else to talk about, lol.

Awww.. but I want to argue for 10 more pages!

no. nobody is getting over anything. and it's not just exclusive to this forum. that insensitive phrase 'get over it' is how all trouble always began, and always will begin. awareness is important. the world doesn't just revolve around any one person. we have to be sensitive to each other. it's only one planet.

That goes both ways. You need to try and understand Australian culture also. I don't see much "sensitivity" going on there.

If you could have read some of the crap I've read about Australia these past few days........

 

[144000]

Yes, the rest of the world has moved on. It was yesterdays story.

Fans are making this so dramatic and are going on and on and on about it because there is no other MJ news at the moment. So yes, get over it. Its over.

you don't know that. nobody is getting over it, just because you say so.

 

[144000]

Awww.. but I want to argue for 10 more pages!



That goes both ways. You need to try and understand Australian culture also. I don't see much "sensitivity" going on there.

If you could have read some of the crap I've read about Australia these past few days........

well..that crap wasn't coming from me. the question is, do you intend to use your culture to hurt someone else, even if you know it hurts? i would like to think i wouldn't.

 

[mistty4m]

Obviously cause there is nothing else much to discuss... fans are taking this out of proportion and making this thread popular when at the end of the day, no racism was intended.

That's the point people are missing. YES it was disrespectful towards Michael but racist? NO. They were mocking Michael's skin disease, it had nothing to do with race! Bad taste, was I annoyed? YES. Racist? NO.

You have to understand the nature of the segment which is about tasteless acts with no shame or talent who perform for a few seconds to get laughed at.

America has the history of the "black face" where they were INTENTIONALLY racist, not Australia. The act had nothing to do with race in Australia and what Americans have done regarding the black face has nothing to do with Australia.

are you serious with your reply, that a rude reply.

 

[Benji78]

OK - Being a MJ fan I did find this skit under the circumstances a bit tasteless. However to suggest it is racist is just ludicrous.

It was a skit that was performed 20 years ago where MJ was depicted as being black. 20 years on, same skit but he is white. Just a silly parody aimed at an Australian audience.

Rather than flapping your lips and regurgitating the media commentary, perhaps you should pick up a dictionary and look up the words 'racist' and 'skit'.

No matter what you do or say in this world, you will offend someone. It's the P.C. world we live in.

 

[Speed_Demon19]

LMAO.....so if they are Indian or whatnot they can not be RACIST????

He said they can not 'afford' to be racist... pretty different to what you interpreted methinks.

 

[Speed_Demon19]

Maybe not, but everybody and their brother knew who the Jackson 5 were, and what they looked like. They were all light to medium brown. So why the need for "blackface"? To me it seemed like an attempt to insult them because they were black. They looked like they were literally wearing black shoe polish, and the guy playing Michael looked like he was wearing white shoe polish. The extremes just weren't funny to me. *shrug*

I honestly put the misinterpretation of 'blackface' down to their inability to mix paint well. They should've stuck to their medical fields.
And guys, they weren't TRYING to insult anyone. They were just... stupid.

 

[000cozzie000]

I had this reply written when the board went down :lol: Might as well post it...

Here is a question... If Michael was the judge and he gave the same speech Harry did, would the ppl (who feel that we Americans are attacking you all) still feel the same way? Would you say that MJ is enforcing his American ways/views on you all?

Yes, I would. Because it's not so much what Harry said that I'm offended by... it's some of the posts that I've read on the boards that are rubbing me the wrong way. Harry IMO didn't do anything wrong and he recognized that there was no malicious intent.

well..that crap wasn't coming from me. the question is, do you intend to use your culture to hurt someone else, even if you know it hurts? i would like to think i wouldn't.

No I wouldn't, not intentionally. You're acting like these culture clashes are new or uncommon. They occur all the time and this is just one example of it... we didn't know that it could be considered racist, we weren't trying to be racist and we as Australians now understand how this could be considered offensive... now could we please be given the same level of courtesy and understanding with our culture? Thank you.

 

[ddmff]

I'm not trying to be smart. I know the basics about black history, but have never researched it in depth.

I'm sorry but researching America's history is just not a top priority of mine. There are many countries that I'm more interested in.



Really, studying American history does not have to be anyone's top priority, I couldn't care less was country you were more interested in. You don't have to know anybody's history. What one of everybody's top priorities should be is to be able to discern when there is a posiblility that one could be clowning an entire race when you go on tv, it promotes peace.
It is impractical to say oh I'm gonna study this or that country so I can know how NOT to offend them especially if you don't travel for a hobby. Really, one doesn't even have to crack open a book, it's just common sense.

 

[ddmff]

Yes, the rest of the world has moved on. It was yesterdays story.

Fans are making this so dramatic and are going on and on and on about it because there is no other MJ news at the moment. So yes, get over it. Its over.

From what you've written on this topic it seems you never had to experience what minorities
or people of color have had to endure, that's why it is easy for you to say "this is yesterday's news, get over it, it's over".That is a insensitive and thought less remark. You don't know how important it is for this kind of thing (that infamous skit for example) not to become commonplace, it can gradually affect how blacks are treated and their rights.Not just in the US, but everywhere. It's like being picked on, if you let one or two people do it then everybody will think they can do it and things can go backward, as the saying goes"those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" and we cannot let that happen. So it can be over for you but it's not over for us because a lot of stuff is still happening to minorities and it never will be over until the world is a perfect place.

And I would be putting this on blast even if it wasn't a MJ forum.

 

[000cozzie000]

I'm not trying to be smart. I know the basics about black history, but have never researched it in depth.

I'm sorry but researching America's history is just not a top priority of mine. There are many countries that I'm more interested in.



Really, studying American history does not have to be anyone's top priority, I couldn't care less was country you were more interested in. You don't have to know anybody's history. What one of everybody's top priorities should be is to be able to discern when there is a posiblility that one could be clowning an entire race when you go on tv, it promotes peace.
It is impractical to say oh I'm gonna study this or that country so I can know how NOT to offend them especially if you don't travel for a hobby. Really, one doesn't even have to crack open a book, it's just common sense.

Australians admitted that they weren't aware of blackface, and now we are. What's irritating is people saying "You need to learn about black history. It should be in your top grammar list. How do you not know about blackface?!"

It's patronizing and annoying as hell because I'm sure these same people haven't done their research on Australian history. You probably didn't know that a lot of Australians get annoyed when foreigners greet them with "G'day mate", but we hear it all the time and we let it slide..

 

[144000]

Australians admitted that they weren't aware of blackface, and now we are. What's irritating is people saying "You need to learn about black history. It should be in your top grammar list. How do you not know about blackface?!"

It's patronizing and annoying as hell because I'm sure these same people haven't done their research on Australian history. You probably didn't know that a lot of Australians get annoyed when foreigners greet them with "G'day mate", but we hear it all the time and we let it slide..

as someone else said, here, the issue isn't just specifics, it's common sense. the thing that will prevent history from repeating. i don't need a lesson to KNOW that i shouldn't go to a latin person and say 'whasup mami', or a black person and say 'wassup nigga', and i've never gone to an australian and called them 'aussie' or have never said 'gday'. my common sense tells me not to do that, without even cracking a book. that's what we're asking here with blackface. you can look at the act, and common sense says something is wrong, without even cracking a book. that's why the OP posted this thread.

 

[000cozzie000]

as someone else said, here, the issue isn't just specifics, it's common sense. the thing that will prevent history from repeating. i don't need a lesson to KNOW that i shouldn't go to a latin person and say 'whasup mami', or a black person and say 'wassup nigga', and i've never gone to an australian and called them 'aussie' or have never said 'gday'. my common sense tells me not to do that, without even cracking a book. that's what we're asking here with blackface. you can look at the act, and common sense says something is wrong, without even cracking a book. that's why the OP posted this thread.

*sigh* forget it. Because even your "common sense" is from an American point of view. Why do people ignore us when we say that before we learnt what blackface was, painting your face dark meant NOTHING to Australians.

Must I quote Michael for you guys to understand? Nothing nothing NOTHING. NOTHING! To this day nothing... still, nothing.

We hadn't heard of it, most of us hadn't seen it before. It was a culture clash, plain and simple. I'm done...............................

 

[144000]

*sigh* forget it. Because even your "common sense" is from an American point of view. Why do people ignore us when we say that before we learnt what blackface was, painting your face dark meant NOTHING to Australians.

Must I quote Michael for you guys to understand? Nothing nothing NOTHING. NOTHING! To this day nothing... still, nothing.

We hadn't heard of it, most of us hadn't seen it before. It was a culture clash, plain and simple. I'm done...............................

not that Michael has anything to do with it, cus it doesn't. but if you say it means nothing to you, that would be the same as me saying that 'gday' means nothing to me, even after you posted.

but i'm sensitive enough for it to mean something to me.

 

[ddmff]

Australians admitted that they weren't aware of blackface, and now we are. What's irritating is people saying "You need to learn about black history. It should be in your top grammar list. How do you not know about blackface?!"

It's patronizing and annoying as hell because I'm sure these same people haven't done their research on Australian history. You probably didn't know that a lot of Australians get annoyed when foreigners greet them with "G'day mate", but we hear it all the time and we let it slide..

I hear you, and no I didn't know that phrase makes you guys irritated and now I know not to say that and I'll let others I know aware of that because they proabaly don't know either.
See, it's just the same, I don' t see any harm in it but the fact is that you do, I will honor your feelings and sensibilities, it's not that important for me to understand it, but it is important for me to respect where you stand.

It's just that minstrel type shows have a very deep and hurtful connotations and black folks are the kind of people who are gonna say something about it.

 

[000cozzie000]

not that Michael has anything to do with it, cus it doesn't. but if you say it means nothing to you, that would be the same as me saying that 'gday' means nothing to me, even after you posted.

but i'm sensitive enough for it to mean something to me.

:smilerolleyes:

Good for you. And thank you for completely misunderstanding my post.

 

[144000]

:smilerolleyes:

Good for you. And thank you for completely misunderstanding my post.

ok....answer me two questions then. what am i missing?

secondly, does blackface still mean NOTHING to you, personally?

 

[000cozzie000]

I hear you, and no I didn't know that phrase makes you guys irritated and now I know not to say that and I'll let others I know aware of that because they proabaly don't know either.
See, it's just the same, I don' t see any harm in it but the fact is that you do, I will honor your feelings and sensibilities, it's not that important for me to understand it, but it is important for me to respect where you stand.

It's just that minstrel type shows have a very deep and hurtful connotations and black folks are the kind of people who are gonna say something about it.

See that's what I was trying to say, we know about it now and we understand why this could hurt people from the states, especially african americans.

Before last week I hadn't even heard or seen blackfaces. I just thought it was the same as when MJ impersonators paint their faces white. If we were aware of its racist history we would have felt differently.

 

[144000]

See that's what I was trying to say, we know about it now and we understand why this could hurt people from the states, especially african americans.

Before last week I hadn't even heard or seen blackfaces. I just thought it was the same as when MJ impersonators paint their faces white. If we were aware of its racist history we would have felt differently.

well the point that i was making to you is this. BEFORE you pointed it out that you are offended by the phrase 'gday', something in me knew that there was at least SOMETHING offensive about that, already. you seemed sarcastic towards me, that i felt that, inside, before you even posted it. however i am glad you feel differently now about blackface.

 

[000cozzie000]

ok....answer me two questions then. what am i missing?

secondly, does blackface still mean NOTHING to you, personally?

I answered your first question in my last post

And secondly, now that I know about blackface, yes I do find it very offensive. Having your race publicly humiliated on tv is very cruel.

But to get back to the original skit, I don't think that was their intention at all, which is why I wasn't offended by it. This is where we'll probably have to agree to disagree because I still don't think that they're were trying to be malicious or attack black people in any way. More like "lets take the piss out of Michael and the Jackson 5"..

 

[144000]

I answered your first question in my last post

And secondly, now that I know about blackface, yes I do find it very offensive. Having your race publicly humiliated on tv is very cruel.

But to get back to the original skit, I don't think that was their intention at all, which is why I wasn't offended by it. This is where we'll probably have to agree to disagree because I still don't think that they're were trying to be malicious or attack black people in any way. More like "lets take the piss out of Michael and the Jackson 5"..

so you are saying that the feeling that i exhibited that i KNEW that there was something fishy about the phrase 'gday'....that feeling doesn't exist in others about what MAY be offensive, even without full prior knowledge?

you're saying you are absolutely certain that NONE of those guys may have had a vague sensitivity that SOMETHING may be fishy?

 

[000cozzie000]

so you are saying that the feeling that i exhibited that i KNEW that there was something fishy about the phrase 'gday'....that feeling doesn't exist in others about what MAY be offensive, even without full prior knowledge?

you're saying you are absolutely certain that NONE of those guys may have had a vague sensitivity that SOMETHING may be fishy?

I'm not their spokesperson, nor do I have access to their feelings. I have given my opinion of the skit already.

 

[Crisstti]

One yes i'm from the USA and born and raised

Two i'm black and of course most people know the history of black slaves and how most blacks was stereotyped by white actors using blackfaces.

What get me puzzles is how some of you are changing everything around to US issue and don't see the real picture and history of blackface.

This is the reason more people need to learn black history so they don't make this mistake and maybe you will get the point about it.

I don't believe everyone in australia share the same opinion oh it's just a joke and get over, I believe some people just need to learn black history more and stop pushing stuff under the rug and claiming we blame USA and don't blame us because we didn't know the history of blackface.

FYI
Blackface was used to put black down and make us look like clowns on stage and painted us uneducated and walk around with our hair standing on the top of our head.


If people learned history of each culture about what they had to deal with and how they made it past the bad times then maybe mistake like this wouldn't be made and sweep under the rug.

http://black-face.com/

Most people IN THE US know the history of black slaves and how most blacks was stereotyped by white actors using blackfaces. Most people everywhere else probably doesn't.
I actually do because I love history and have read a lot about the history of slavery. But that is not the case with everyone. I showed it to my mom (a huge Michael fan) and asked her if she found it somehow offensive, she said no.

But it's not even about knowing the history of slavery and blackface. Whoopy Goldberg obviously knew about it, yet she still thought it wouldn't be offensive. So, even if those doctor did know about it, why would they have assumed it would be offensive?.

Of course it would be great if people everywhere would learn about cultures everywhere, but that would really take a lot of time from everyonw... I'm sure none of us here know much about every culture.

 

[.Butterflies.]

Robert Downey jr was aware of it too I'm sure... Why is no one up in arms? Oh right... stones...glass houses...