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How Many Unreleased Songs are Complete Enough for a Release?

SmoothMel7 said:
I think we all know who you're talking about. I assume you spoke with him at a seminar.
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No, I did not speak to him. The information comes from a very close source tho.
SmoothMel7 said:
Indeed, I have no doubt that there must be some songs left from this period that must be complete. However, by doing in-depth research, we discover that there are still wonders there but which are very far from being complete.
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SmoothMel7 said:
MJ has worked with many producers, RedOne, Will I Am, Ne Yo, Akon.... And none of these artists have complete songs vocally from MJ..
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Thats true. But please remember, I specifically said ideas that have been made into a song. It's all that we have. There a barely any songs with full vocals left. Consider the time it took to complete the Dangerous or HIStory album. The amount of money (which he didn't have in the last years) and how big these projects were getting. For example "Jam" has over 80 (or was it 120?) tracks. They had to combine two SSL consoles in two different recording studios to make that work.
SmoothMel7 said:
We all know the famous handwritten list with unreleased titles found at MJ in 2009. Some of them were registered in 2009/2010 with US Copyright, and they could be listened to. Most of them are ultimately just instrumentals or contain very few clean vocals. Songs like Rocker and Dark Lady, which can be considered the most complete, however remain very incomplete to really be released as a song.
Would that mean that these songs registered under US Copyright are not the final versions? That there would be voices on songs that we only know in instrumentals?
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The 2008 and 2009 songs are almost useless. There are barely any vocals. 1999-2006 was Michaels last prime.
SmoothMel7 said:
I don't have any information on a full version of GOAL, but with a little research it's easy to find that there are 7 mixes with vocals. More information should be given so that people can believe you on this song.
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See my comment above.
SmoothMel7 said:
I know there are Rodney Jerkins and Teddy Riley songs left from the Invincible era, but why weren't all of these songs included on the Michael album?
Why were the 24 titles you mentioned not available at that time?
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Good and important questions. In my opinion and listening closely to MP, it is clear that RJ songs dont have the 'kick'. In fact, MP spoke very badly about RJ's attitude and the qualitiy of his songs. Take GYWOOM for example - I have had the master laying around since 2017. It's an awful song compared to Unbreakable. Theres an interesting story with Teddy Riley. At the meeting for the album Michael, Teddy Riley has been asked what his role was. His reply: "My role was to make the songs sound like Michael". I don't think Teddy is a reliable and trustworthy source altough he is a very skilled musician.
SmoothMel7 said:
I would like to believe you, I assure you. But you are a brand new member giving us this information. So that we can believe you, do not hesitate to give us more details.
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If you knew who am I am, it would become pretty clear that my intentions are good. Maybe I'll see you at the next ITSWMJ seminar in Europe?
 
firmware-god said:
No, I did not speak to him. The information comes from a very close source tho.


Thats true. But please remember, I specifically said ideas that have been made into a song. It's all that we have. There a barely any songs with full vocals left. Consider the time it took to complete the Dangerous or HIStory album. The amount of money (which he didn't have in the last years) and how big these projects were getting. For example "Jam" has over 80 (or was it 120?) tracks. They had to combine two SSL consoles in two different recording studios to make that work.

The 2008 and 2009 songs are almost useless. There are barely any vocals. 1999-2006 was Michaels last prime.

See my comment above.

Good and important questions. In my opinion and listening closely to MP, it is clear that RJ songs dont have the 'kick'. In fact, MP spoke very badly about RJ's attitude and the qualitiy of his songs. Take GYWOOM for example - I have had the master laying around since 2017. It's an awful song compared to Unbreakable. Theres an interesting story with Teddy Riley. At the meeting for the album Michael, Teddy Riley has been asked what his role was. His reply: "My role was to make the songs sound like Michael". I don't think Teddy is a reliable and trustworthy source altough he is a very skilled musician.

If you knew who am I am, it would become pretty clear that my intentions are good. Maybe I'll see you at the next ITSWMJ seminar in Europe?
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Thanks for the info. Do you know if Michael also worked on Cheater in 2009?
 
firmware-god said:
Good and important questions. In my opinion and listening closely to MP, it is clear that RJ songs dont have the 'kick'. In fact, MP spoke very badly about RJ's attitude and the qualitiy of his songs. Take GYWOOM for example - I have had the master laying around since 2017. It's an awful song compared to Unbreakable.
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I think Xscape has the kick. And GYWOOM isn't that bad. But that's just me.
 
SMJJ777 said:
Thanks for the info. Do you know if Michael also worked on Cheater in 2009?
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In my opinion, the song is finished as it is. Not much I would edit personally. One of the Bad era higlights for me.

Just noticed it's a Bill Bottrell song. It's definitely finished from his perspective. He believes in "one take" recordings.
May ask Matt Forger about it at some point.
 
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firmware-god said:
In my opinion, the song is finished as it is. Not much I would edit personally. One of the Bad era higlights for me.

Just noticed it's a Bill Bottrell song. It's definitely finished from his perspective. He believes in "one take" recordings.
May ask Matt Forger about it at some point.
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I'm asking because Cheater is written on the notes of songs he wanted to finish in 2009. Also a person I know says that he has Cheater 2009, so I was wondering.
 
An album with 8 songs like xscape would be ideal
If they can really get the most out of the tracks, maybe it would be possible to make 2 albums
We already have enough leaked songs for an entire album to be made
Ex: TYLA, GYWOOM, GOAL, Buffalo Bill?, I Was The Loser, Dream Away, Hot Fun In The Summertime? and Chicago 1945
 
ABG said:
An album with 8 songs like xscape would be ideal
If they can really get the most out of the tracks, maybe it would be possible to make 2 albums
We already have enough leaked songs for an entire album to be made
Ex: TYLA, GYWOOM, GOAL, Buffalo Bill?, I Was The Loser, Dream Away, Hot Fun In The Summertime? and Chicago 1945
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I'd prefer more unleaked material known to be complete.
Ex: Buffalo Bill, Hot Fun, Eaten Alive Solo, Attitude, Rolling The Dice, etc.
10-11 tracks would be optical
 
Hot Fun only had a few vocals until they reworked it for Xscape. Buffalo Bill is 100% complete and I want to hear it so badly. Rolling The Dice is probably only a demo. Eaten Alive solo definitely complete. Attitude is unknown.
 
SMJJ777 said:
Hot Fun only had a few vocals until they reworked it for Xscape. Buffalo Bill is 100% complete and I want to hear it so badly. Rolling The Dice is probably only a demo. Eaten Alive solo definitely complete. Attitude is unknown.
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Mike recorded a verse and a chorus for Hot Fun. Rolling The Dice is a fully complete outtake from what I heard.
A demo is a incomplete recording that is incomplete. something like Cheater.
An outtake is a fully complete song that wasn't released. something like SPYHO 1992.
 
JamesCMJJ said:
I'd prefer more unleaked material known to be complete.
Ex: Buffalo Bill, Hot Fun, Eaten Alive Solo, Attitude, Rolling The Dice, etc.
10-11 tracks would be optical
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It would be great for the fans, but I don't think it would be a commercial success
On a really new album, I don't know if it would work to include a song that's already known for being sung by another singer and matches your period
Very different from TYLA or GOAL which could become epic songs
It's the same thing with Hot Street or Niteline, they definitely wouldn't work on an new album, unless commemorative reissues
These tracks certainly couldn't be remixed, as they wouldn't work by today's standards.
 
ABG said:
It would be great for the fans, but I don't think it would be a commercial success
On a really new album, I don't know if it would work to include a song that's already known for being sung by another singer and matches your period
Very different from TYLA or GOAL which could become epic songs
It's the same thing with Hot Street or Niteline, they definitely wouldn't work on an new album, unless commemorative reissues
These tracks certainly couldn't be remixed, as they wouldn't work by today's standards.
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We don't know that, as we've never heard them
 
JamesCMJJ said:
We don't know that, as we've never heard them
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Yes, but the Thriller demos leave me feeling a little behind
Overall, I'm sure they're great demos, but I don't know if they would fit on an album like xscape
Looking forward to hearing Spice of life (if there is a version with MJ's vocals)
 
JamesCMJJ said:
Mike recorded a verse and a chorus for Hot Fun. Rolling The Dice is a fully complete outtake from what I heard.
A demo is a incomplete recording that is incomplete. something like Cheater.
An outtake is a fully complete song that wasn't released. something like SPYHO 1992.
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SYPHO was released on limited media forms.
 
firmware-god said:
No, I did not speak to him. The information comes from a very close source tho.


Thats true. But please remember, I specifically said ideas that have been made into a song. It's all that we have. There a barely any songs with full vocals left. Consider the time it took to complete the Dangerous or HIStory album. The amount of money (which he didn't have in the last years) and how big these projects were getting. For example "Jam" has over 80 (or was it 120?) tracks. They had to combine two SSL consoles in two different recording studios to make that work.

The 2008 and 2009 songs are almost useless. There are barely any vocals. 1999-2006 was Michaels last prime.

See my comment above.

Good and important questions. In my opinion and listening closely to MP, it is clear that RJ songs dont have the 'kick'. In fact, MP spoke very badly about RJ's attitude and the qualitiy of his songs. Take GYWOOM for example - I have had the master laying around since 2017. It's an awful song compared to Unbreakable. Theres an interesting story with Teddy Riley. At the meeting for the album Michael, Teddy Riley has been asked what his role was. His reply: "My role was to make the songs sound like Michael". I don't think Teddy is a reliable and trustworthy source altough he is a very skilled musician.

If you knew who am I am, it would become pretty clear that my intentions are good. Maybe I'll see you at the next ITSWMJ seminar in Europe?
Click to expand...
When were you able to hear this and on what occasion? Is this source your friend who worked with Michael Prince or a collaborator of MJ?

I can't really understand this principle of ideas being transformed into a song. Is it several songs combined to make one? Do you have any examples?

It would be a pleasure if we meet. It depends where in Europe.
 
SmoothMel7 said:
When were you able to hear this and on what occasion? Is this source your friend who worked with Michael Prince or a collaborator of MJ?

I can't really understand this principle of ideas being transformed into a song. Is it several songs combined to make one? Do you have any examples?

It would be a pleasure if we meet. It depends where in Europe.
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Send me your contact information and we will talk next year.
 
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firmware-god said:
It makes a lot of sense actually. The CD (see above) has been "stolen" from Michaels house right after his death.
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I already know this. Kinda hard to believe what you're saying when you're just repeating stuff that has already been discussed to death on here. Not trying to sound like an ass but any of us could say the stuff you're saying based on common knowledge.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I already know this. Kinda hard to believe what you're saying when you're just repeating stuff that has already been discussed to death on here. Not trying to sound like an ass but any of us could say the stuff you're saying based on common knowledge.
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Which part exactly are we discussing? That he worked on it shortly before his death or that I heard a more complete version?
 
To answer the question of the thread, very little. Nearly everything after 2005 is unreleasable. Dark Lady is one of the only exceptions. There's the rare occurrence of 2005-2009 material like I Am A Loser that's NEARLY complete. Hold My Hand and Best Of Joy were his last fully complete songs, both already released.
 
JamesCMJJ said:
To answer the question of the thread, very little. Nearly everything after 2005 is unreleasable. Dark Lady is one of the only exceptions. There's the rare occurrence of 2005-2009 material like I Am A Loser that's NEARLY complete. Hold My Hand and Best Of Joy were his last fully complete songs, both already released.
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Dark Lady isn't releasable. Though it has a full vocal, it's mumbled and done in only one take. I Was The Loser and I Have This Dream are the only songs from that time period that are releasable, along with 1 RedOne song and possibly a couple of Will.i.am tracks.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Dark Lady isn't releasable. Though it has a full vocal, it's mumbled and done in only one take. I Was The Loser and I Have This Dream are the only songs from that time period that are releasable, along with 1 RedOne song and possibly a couple of Will.i.am tracks.
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Dark Lady isn't complete, but its enough to where it could be released on like a ultimate collection type of album. There's no telling how many songs are releasable, as all the songs that we know from that period may not be all the songs that exist from that period.
 
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