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I Am A Loser leaks [ Page 6] New info Page 12

how do we know, that he recorded 4 songs with redOne and if they are even complete/releasable?
 
their's no reason in guessing. let's just let time go by see what the future beholds!
 
jtabbott8 said:
That still wouldn't add up because the estate has a copyright on over 30 post trial tracks (of coarse we don't know what state of completion they are in)

I'm not saying that all of these tracks are 100% complete, i'm just saying that these are all post trial tracks the estate has a copyright on. Which means they have well over 17 post trial tracks.
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Those aren't all post trial tracks. For example, Don't Be Messin' is a reworking of Don't Be Messin' Around from circa 1990; Thank Heaven was originally recorded in 1999; World of Candy was recorded in the late summer/early fall of 2003; King Tutankhamen and Children's Hour are from the Dangerous sessions; so on and so forth.

The only registries that are undoubtedly post-trial are those recorded with Neff-U, including Lady of Summer, D.I.E. and Best of Joy, although like you said, no one knows just how complete they are.

DanGerouS- said:
how do we know, that he recorded 4 songs with redOne and if they are even complete/releasable?
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Michael and RedOne started working together in the spring of 2008 and ended up with somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen sketches and song concepts. Michael only ever recorded vocals for four of them during his time in Las Vegas that year. Maybe guide vocals and scratch vocals were recorded for other tracks but those four were the only ones to progress to the point that full tracks could be put together. Very similar situation to the will.i.am sessions.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Those aren't all post trial tracks. For example, Don't Be Messin' is a reworking of Don't Be Messin' Around from circa 1990; Thank Heaven was originally recorded in 1999; World of Candy was recorded in the late summer/early fall of 2003; King Tutankhamen and Children's Hour are from the Dangerous sessions; so on and so forth.

The only registries that are undoubtedly post-trial are those recorded with Neff-U, including Lady of Summer, D.I.E. and Best of Joy, although like you said, no one knows just how complete they are.



Michael and RedOne started working together in the spring of 2008 and ended up with somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen sketches and song concepts. Michael only ever recorded vocals for four of them during his time in Las Vegas that year. Maybe guide vocals and scratch vocals were recorded for other tracks but those four were the only ones to progress to the point that full tracks could be put together. Very similar situation to the will.i.am sessions.
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from your sources and information how many tracks are eligible for release? from let's say.. 1996-June 2009, including the hard drives from carolwood?
 
AlwaysThere said:
Michael and RedOne started working together in the spring of 2008 and ended up with somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen sketches and song concepts. Michael only ever recorded vocals for four of them during his time in Las Vegas that year. Maybe guide vocals and scratch vocals were recorded for other tracks but those four were the only ones to progress to the point that full tracks could be put together. Very similar situation to the will.i.am sessions.
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Source??
 
AlwaysThere said:
The only registries that are undoubtedly post-trial are those recorded with Neff-U, including Lady of Summer, D.I.E. and Best of Joy, although like you said, no one knows just how complete they are.
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Didn't Michael first started to work on Best of Joy during Dangerous era? I vaguely remember to have read something like that.
 
respect77 said:
Didn't Michael first started to work on Best of Joy during Dangerous era? I vaguely remember to have read something like that.
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There was a song Best Of Joy written on a piece of paper from the Dangerous sessions with all other Dangerous songs including Ghosts and even Don't Be Messin' Around. But the version we have is from 2008, recorded with Brad Buxer and Michael Durham Prince.
 
We need to stop guessing about songs and acting like thats a proven fact. Prior to bad 25 we didn't know that I'm so blue, Abortion Papers and Apocalypse Now existed. How about that track that snoop dogg confirmed he did with Michael?.. You see, until the estate gives us a number or a list of what songs exist and are in their possession, we just do not know.
 
Why do fans on this board always bash people for saying something negative about MJ projects/releases/leaks/MJ in general? Everyone is entitled to an opinion! Just because it may be something negative does not mean they should be branded "moaners" trying to "ruin" things for other fans.

Anyway, no I don't like the "I Am A Loser" for a few reasons. Not because its a demo, or unfinished (I love demos such as "The Way You Love Me" "Price Of Fame" "Blue Gangster" etc.) but simply because I think the melody is a little dull and a bit too simple/repetitive IMO. Also his vocals didn't impress me that much, as they usually do (demo recordings or otherwise). I feel MJ is holding back vocally quite a bit until right at the end, just lazily feeling out the melody. Which is fine, as its a demo but it is what it is. Also, the beat is basically just Stranger In Moscow lol. But it wasn't the final product that MJ would want us to hear, so I can't judge him on that. I make music too, and I know that it can take a long time to get it right and it may sound totally different from the first version.

Not really feeling the defeatist nature of it either. But its all good anyway. I don't like that song "Be Not Always" (Jacksons "Victory" album) either so, its not everything you're gonna enjoy :)
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
We need to stop guessing about songs and acting like thats a proven fact. Prior to bad 25 we didn't know that I'm so blue, Abortion Papers and Apocalypse Now existed. How about that track that snoop dogg confirmed he did with Michael?.. You see, until the estate gives us a number or a list of what songs exist and are in their possession, we just do not know.
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they'll never reveal a full list of all the Song's they have! but their were 6 hard drives that Michael D. Prince posted a photo of! each of them at least 500gb-3 terabyte? who knows, but I'm sure this new Timbaland produced album certainly won't be the last that is released.
 
So long as it's really Michael singing he could be singing nursery rhymes and I would still want them in my collection,:D. I like to hear the rough demos - the roots of his songs.
 
MikeJac2005 said:
Anyway, no I don't like the "I Am A Loser" for a few reasons. Not because its a demo, or unfinished (I love demos such as "The Way You Love Me" "Price Of Fame" "Blue Gangster" etc.) but simply because I think the melody is a little dull and a bit too simple/repetitive IMO. Also his vocals didn't impress me that much, as they usually do (demo recordings or otherwise). I feel MJ is holding back vocally quite a bit until right at the end, just lazily feeling out the melody. Which is fine, as its a demo but it is what it is. Also, the beat is basically just Stranger In Moscow lol. But it wasn't the final product that MJ would want us to hear, so I can't judge him on that. I make music too, and I know that it can take a long time to get it right and it may sound totally different from the first version.
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You should know a difference between a Demo and final recording. And I'm not talking about music here or production. You said you like Blue Gangsta Demo. Blue Gangsta is not a demo. The Way You Love Me is not a Demo. I'm talking about the vocals. There is a difference between Demo vocals and final vocal recording recorded in a professional studio, something Michael would consider for a release. Blue Gangsta was recorded in a professional studio with Dr. Freeze and was meant to be released. It is just an early version because production would be different (like Dangerous early version and final version). Demo is something you do just to put it down, not to forget. If he decided to release Loser or Hollywood Tonight he would re-record the vocals for sure. Like he did with Billie Jean demo, Wanna Be' Startin' demo...

"Also his vocals didn't impress me".. of course, because it is a demo, "guide vocals".
 
The Estate told RJT the number of songs they had in 2011 around the Michael album. NOW LISTEN.
WHY? Because he was interviewing them

This was: BEFORE THEY DIGITIZED AUDIO FOR BAD25. Everything was still on tapes, and had to be converted. This took time. During this time we also learned that Groove of Midnight exists, but without Michael vocals.

and this number DOESNT INCLUDE producers who have tracks (Will.i.am, RedOne, Jerkins etc) who are keeping them to themselves.

and Michael wrote, and developed songs ideas for 100 songs for Invincible.

100-16 = 84.
84 - shout, twylm, beautiful girl, fall again, we had enough, one more chance = 78.

Roughly 78 song IDEAS! MUSIC SNIPPETS. Melodies, lyrics and unfinished ideas.
God....you guys. think for once.

When Michael recorded songs. He recorded A VERSE and The CHORUS, and if he liked what he heard he recorded more later (Hollywood Tonight is a prime example). Therefore if recorded material exists from the invincible sessions it is in fragments. BARELY complete. That is where a Duet Album comes into play. However complete MJ tracks with the Cascio tracks in 2011 was 17.

Slave to the Rhythm
Blue Gangster
Do You Know Where Your Children Are?
A Place Without No Name
Love Never Felt So Good
She Was Lovin' Me
I Am A Loser (I Was A Loser, same song. 1 word was changed)
Stop Throwin' Your Life Away

Were probably these songs. Finished and nearly finished.

Neff-U material probably was submitted but wasn't complete enough for release.
Days in Gloucestershire is VERY incomplete
People of the World is dangerously incomplete.

The Snoop Dogg song (From the Bottom of My Heart) is a later version of I Have This dream and it was recorded with an all star cast for Hurricane Katrina.

They probably found more songs later, this is where Chicago comes from. Im not doubting they have more material now, im just saying; its not as much as you guys dream. Don't expect 16 song albums, finished unremixed songs or a double album. If you do. Then you need a reality check.
 
But hold on to the person who can't spell Billie Jean (username) - if they are releasing a new album with Timbaland producing it, surely there is enough content for an entire album? Meaning he's mixed 10+ songs that would have to be near complete/in good shape to be released. Why can't we get a double album? One disc - Timbaland. Other disc - original untouched demo's that he worked on to start with. There's no reality check needed in that sense, because it's simple fact. They picked some of the best material fit for release, so why not have the demo's as well? If anyone here expects a solid 30+ song 2CD set, then yes, they probably don't know an awful lot as to completion etc. BUT - Bad 25 from what I know unearthed a lot of content. If they do the same for each era, then maybe, just maybe, there is still more out there. There's no way there was only 5 more demo's for Bad. There is the early versions of TWYMMF etc etc. So even there, we have more songs. There's more out there. If they have no more new songs, then it's onto the concert releases/behind the scenes/studio footage. Which is just as, if not as interesting as new song material.
 
dam2040 said:
But hold on to the person who can't spell Billie Jean (username) - if they are releasing a new album with Timbaland producing it, surely there is enough content for an entire album? Meaning he's mixed 10+ songs that would have to be near complete/in good shape to be released. Why can't we get a double album? One disc - Timbaland. Other disc - original untouched demo's that he worked on to start with. There's no reality check needed in that sense, because it's simple fact. They picked some of the best material fit for release, so why not have the demo's as well? If anyone here expects a solid 30+ song 2CD set, then yes, they probably don't know an awful lot as to completion etc. BUT - Bad 25 from what I know unearthed a lot of content. If they do the same for each era, then maybe, just maybe, there is still more out there. There's no way there was only 5 more demo's for Bad. There is the early versions of TWYMMF etc etc. So even there, we have more songs. There's more out there. If they have no more new songs, then it's onto the concert releases/behind the scenes/studio footage. Which is just as, if not as interesting as new song material.
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My Username Billyjeanplxiv

isn't the song Billie Jean. Its my name: Billy (yea my real name) and jean. like Billiejean. Check out my To Be Realistic topic: http://historycontinues.com/forums/showthread.php?1554-To-Be-Realistic

I explain a lot of stuff there, like why there cant be a two disc album. One of demos other of remixes.
 
I really think there's something here.. Yeah its unfinished but the rhythm is really catchy.. This is a track I wouldn't mind a producer working on and getting a complete production.
 
Zakk said:
from your sources and information how many tracks are eligible for release? from let's say.. 1996-June 2009, including the hard drives from carolwood?
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I haven't spoken to my source in some months because we lost contact after the old Maximum Jackson board closed. Still looking for him matter of fact. But apparently Michael worked on four or five new songs during rehearsal downtime in June 2009, one of which is the instrumental demo for Breed. I don't think he actually recorded new vocals for anything, mostly just worked on new instrumentals and pre-recorded songs. As far as material from 1996 to 2009, my own research is ongoing. I'll be writing about it as soon as I'm 100% sure on everything. I don't want to say anything I'm not sure of and get hopes up :)

Billyjeanplxiv said:
The Estate told RJT the number of songs they had in 2011 around the Michael album. NOW LISTEN.
WHY? Because he was interviewing them

This was: BEFORE THEY DIGITIZED AUDIO FOR BAD25. Everything was still on tapes, and had to be converted. This took time. During this time we also learned that Groove of Midnight exists, but without Michael vocals.
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Firstly, I don't believe for a second that the estate said that in 2011. In 2010 they told Joe Vogel and several media outlets that Michael left behind about sixty fully completed/nearly completed tracks and dozens of demos that could be culled into finished songs. Since then, Vogel has stated that around one hundred songs remain in the vaults, including demos. Hell, Taraborelli even wrote about the sixty masters in his Michael Jackson book! There is no way.

Secondly, Groove of Midnight was recorded by Michael. There are leaked studio session clips online. Considering the fact that it took the estate three years to digitalize the Bad sessions, they easily could have lost it.



I plan to write a full article about this situation soon.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
and Michael wrote, and developed songs ideas for 100 songs for Invincible.

100-16 = 84.
84 - shout, twylm, beautiful girl, fall again, we had enough, one more chance = 78.
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May i ask you how you know this? were you present during the whole invincible recording sessions?

Billyjeanplxiv said:
Roughly 78 song IDEAS! MUSIC SNIPPETS. Melodies, lyrics and unfinished ideas.
God....you guys. think for once.
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Again how do you know this? Have you heard these supposed Music Snippets? if so can you tell me how they sound?

Billyjeanplxiv said:
The Snoop Dogg song (From the Bottom of My Heart) is a later version of I Have This dream and it was recorded with an all star cast for Hurricane Katrina.
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Again how do you know this? Has it ever been confirmed by anyone that that snoop dogg song is From The Bottom of My Heart?

This is what i mean, "neff-u material probably was submitted", "they probably found more songs", "complete tracks were probably these songs." This is just purely speculation as you do NOT know that for a fact. You are going by what RJT said in 2011 which i understand but i still do not believe that statement by him to be accurate or even remotely true given his past record of lying.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Again how do you know this? Has it ever been confirmed by anyone that that snoop dogg song is From The Bottom of My Heart?
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To be honest, no one knows. Snoop Dogg did record vocals for From the Bottom of My Heart in late 2006 and no other evidence has surfaced that suggested that they recorded anything else together.
 
it's interesting new information is being unearthed regarding these kind of thing's! but honestly, why would they release a song that was copyrighted by Siedah for her album? I know Michael recorded it originally but that's a factor! as long as future albums (2-3 not getting hopes to high) have at least 9 song's recorded from 2004-2009 spread through all albums, then i will be overjoyed! then the estate can think about the possible collectors label.. releasing those partially completed Song's! home Demo's etc. but when they do run out of Song's, I think then should be the time that they re release LP's etc. newly enhanced! Concert Blu-Ray's, home movies, candid footage, documentaries, studio footage, rehearsal footage, a book series, magazine series, then in 2058.. The definitive collection! woo! haha
 
AlwaysThere said:
To be honest, no one knows. Snoop Dogg did record vocals for From the Bottom of My Heart in late 2006 and no other evidence has surfaced that suggested that they recorded anything else together.
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Cool :)
 
Zakk said:
then the estate can think about the possible collectors label.. releasing those partially completed Song's! home Demo's etc. but when they do run out of Song's, I think then should be the time that they re release LP's etc. newly enhanced! Concert Blu-Ray's, home movies, candid footage, documentaries, studio footage, rehearsal footage, a book series, magazine series, then in 2058.. The definitive collection! woo! haha
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THIS. i think a book series would be fantastic.
 
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MikeJac2005 said:
Why do fans on this board always bash people for saying something negative about MJ projects/releases/leaks/MJ in general? Everyone is entitled to an opinion! Just because it may be something negative does not mean they should be branded "moaners" trying to "ruin" things for other fans.
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I don't think criticism is the problem. But there's no need to go overboard with the bashing of the song like some did earlier in this thread. You can express that you are not a fan of a song without overdramatically negative statements as if it was the worst song ever created - and some behaved like that before it leaked.
 
I love this song! I really appreciate the fact that it's only 'scratch vocals' and before long it sounds great and dang near complete. I can't stop listening to it.

And thanks for the article, Pentum. It's awesome knowing how the song came about and such. I think he was trying to help Buxer feel better by the suggestion of writing a song about it, helping him let it all out. Sounds like Michael was great with relationship therapy. Lol.

Oh, I don't think the song is 'just Stranger In Moscow'. The layering instrumentation is, which was admitted in the article. But there's enough added with that to make it sound fresh. And these are guide vocals, Michael was holding back throughout the song really, but even his guide vocals are pretty impressive, especially compared to other artists. Lol.
 
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I think the Estate/Damien has been getting it taken down. I saw the whole video and was really into it, but one of the two parties (Estate/Damien) basically said it was messed up to allow the song to be leaked.
 
I personally like what I hear.. yeah its a bit empty for a "complete" song but it's not that.. I'd like it completed and released
 
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