Invincible appreciation thread

[loka]

So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I just listened to it again today.

I'm still upsed by how fans underrated it through the years.

Did this album grow on you since ?

I was just listening to "Heartbreaker". Omg, i can't believe how good it really is...

Isn't it ?

Even "Don't walk away", so Good !

 

[Galactus123]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

It gets better each time I listen to it. It has a lot of awesome songs but the album feels too long when you listen it. My favorite songs are You Rock My World, Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Speechless and You Are My Life.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Some amazing songs, some of his best songs ever: You Rock My World, Speechless, Whatever Happens, Butterflies, Heaven Can Wait, Unbreakable, Threatened.

But at the same time the album has to many "weak" songs (weaker in comparison to his past albums): Privacy, Cry, The Lost Children, You Are My Life, 2000 Watts, Don't Walk Away.

The "problem" is that the album is too long so it feels like there are to much "fillers". First 8 songs are AMAZING! As good as anything MJ ever recorded. But next 6 songs are just not his best work. Still good songs but not good enough (in my opinion) for MJ studio album, especially when you have songs like Hollywood Tonight, Chicago, Xscape, A Place With No Name, We've Had Enough, One More Chance, Fall Again, Another Day, What More Can I Give! Last 2 songs are, again, AMAZING.

So, to sum it up.. You have album with 10 great songs and 6 not so good songs. If he released 10 track album it would have been perfect. That's why I prefer shorter albums (OTW, Thriller & Bad).

So, my opinion is that Invincible is just as good as Thriller or any other MJ album (Thriller has only 9 songs but all 9 are killers!), but it is still the album with most "fillers" or "weak songs". But that's the problem when you want to release an album with 16 songs - it's impossible to have 16 killer songs (Dangerous & HIStory suffered from that problem also), but I understand MJ that he wanted to give to his fans as much as he can or as much as the CD can hold.

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

It's good for what it is, but having too many songwriters and too many producers really hurt the album IMO.

 

[Amaya]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I liked it from the moment Unbreakable began to pump through my car stereo for the first time. XD I had bought it after his passing out of curiosity, and when Unbreakable started up I was like "THIS is the album he put out that everyone said was awful?"

Granted, there are some songs on there that are really... eh. But there are some great ones on there too. So it's definitely not as awful as some were making it out to be.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

It's good for what it is, but having too many songwriters and too many producers really hurt the album IMO.

For me, that is not the problem at all!

Rodney Jerkins co-wrote and co-produced some amazing songs (You Rock My World, Unbreakable, Threatened, Invincible, We've Had Enough, Xscape), but he also produced not so good Heartbreaker and "poor" Privacy.

Dr. Freeze co-wrote and co-produced Break Of Dawn and A Place With No Name (both great songs) and not so good (in my opinion) Blue Gangsta.

Teddy Riley co-produced and "co-wrote" amazing Heaven Can Wait and maybe the best track on the album Whatever Happens, but he also co-produced some of the worst songs from those sessions 2000 Watts, Don't Walk Away & Shout.

Butterflies are just beautiful. Don't matter who co-wrote it and who co-produced it with MJ.

Then the material MJ wrote and produced by himself. Again some great stuff and some not so great stuff. Hollywood Tonight (probably his best song after Billie Jean and Who Is It), Speechless (beautiful and amazing), What More Can I Give and The Way You Love Me - all great songs. But The Lost Children & Beautiful Girl are not his best work.

Babyface co-produced song You Are My Life is nice, but not good enough. I'm sure there were better songs from those sessions!

R. Kelly wrote and co-produced Cry - one of the worst songs on the album, but he also wrote and co-produced great R'n'B gem One More Chance!

Fall Again - beautiful, Another Day - great, Chicago - amazing - All from different authors and all from different sessions.

So the problem is not "too many songwriters and too many producers" at all. The problem is the length of the album (too many songs) and the song selection (to many "fillers").

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Here's my opinion on what's the best and worst on Invicible

The best:
Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Invincible
2,000 Watts
Speechless
The Lost Children
Don't Walk Away
Whatever Happens
Threatened
You Rock My World

The average:
Break Of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
Cry

The worst:
Privacy
You Are My Life
Butterflies

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

But when I see the songs that didn't make the album (Fall Again, Xscape, Hollywood Tonight, We've Had Enough) I just think that we could have gotten a much better album.

 

[Word Smith Sr]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

The title is of this thread is, I dunno. It's a matter of taste. Some songs are nice but the album as a whole is not that great in my humble opinion. But that's just me. I tried to convince myself it was a great album (compared to his other albums) while listening to it a second time.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I agree about a matter of taste. I liked "You Rock my World" right away. I also really like "Break of Dawn." But the one that grew on me and now I listen at least a few times a week is "Butterflies." I don't know why-but for me, it almost ranks up there with "Lady in my Life"-

 

[jtabbott8]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I love Invincible. With that said, I do agree that the thing that hurt this album is that there was too much filler (in my opinion) and when I think about some of the amazing songs that were left off I know we could have gotten a more solid album.

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Hollywood Tonight
Butterflies
A Place W/ No Name
You Rock My World
Blue Gangsta
She Was Loving Me
Break of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
Another Day
Invincible
Threatened
Whatever Happens
One More Chance
We've Had Enough

That makes a MUCH stronger album (IMO) and if that were the track list Invincible would easily be my favorite MJ album.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

The worst:
Butterflies

That is extremely subjective. The song peaked at #14 on Billboard Hot 100 and #2 on Billboard Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs without even being released as a single and without music video and without any promotion.

Definitely one of the best songs on the album and one of the best songs MJ ever recorded.

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

That is extremely subjective. The song peaked at #14 on Billboard Hot 100 and #2 on Billboard Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs without even being released as a single and without music video and without any promotion.

Definitely one of the best songs on the album and one of the best songs MJ ever recorded.

I just don't like it. I think it's incredibly cheesy, and I don't care how well a song does on the billboard charts.

 

[Word Smith Sr]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

^^^ Can I ask you a question ? Your post made me curious. Please bear in mind that I'm not saying you're not right for not liking this song. To each his own. Do you think you would like the song if you could not understand the lyrics ? There are many songs by many artists I love that I did not understand right away because I'm better at reading English than hearing it. I was able to get the vibe thanks to the melody and a few words (e.g "love") but I had to google the lyrics. "What is Freddie saying ? *Page loading* Oh ! Brim pulled way down low !"

For "Smooth Criminal", for a while I did not know what Mike was talking about. I just loved the beat and the way the words would land on it "a cre-scen-do".

 

[DanGerouS-]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

i always loved Invincible, but considering the outtakes we got now, it could have been much better.
also, there are still missing some outtakes from those sessions, I hope we get to hear them.

 

[JEMFTV]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I just don't like it. I think it's incredibly cheesy, and I don't care how well a song does on the billboard charts.

For me it sounds a little bit like Michael is forcing himself through the song, for that reason i don't really it. The Track Masters Mix is fine though.

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

^^^ Can I ask you a question ? Your post made me curious. Please bear in mind that I'm not saying you're not right for long liking this song. To each his own. Do you think you would like the song if you could not understand the lyrics. There are many songs by many artists I love that I did not understand right away because I'm better at reading English than hearing it. I was able to get the vibe thanks to the melody and a few words (e.g "love") but I had to google the lyrics. "What is Freddie saying ? *Page loading* Oh ! Brim pulled way down low !"

For "Smooth Criminal", for a while I did not know what Mike was talking about. I just loved the beat and the way the words would land on it "a cre-scen-do".

If i couldn't understand the lyrics i still wouldn't like it

 

[Word Smith Sr]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

^^^ Oh ok, thanks for answering. Sorry for the typo, I meant "not liking".

 

[Galactus123]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

For me it sounds a little bit like Michael is forcing himself through the song, for that reason i don't really it. The Track Masters Mix is fine though.

In my opinion the vocals in Butterflies are amazing. To me it sounds like that he likes singing it.

 

[speeddemon88]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

reading through the comments I see that everyone likes something on this album, so none of you is right or wrong about what songs should have been or shouldnt have been on the album.

Listening to different Michaels singles always brings me back memories of that era. Here were only 2 singles which is very little considering there was strong single material and I wish there were more singles released, especially one of the first 3 songs.
Next, it always crosses my mind what was Michaels vision with the album, how would next short films look like, what songs would be picked and a possible world tour. I really wish this album could have brought me more memories, because there is a good material on it

 

[FD1998]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

This album was 10 ahead of it's time. Heartbreaker maybe the first ever dub step song. You Rock My World is so R&B and just cool and same with Butterflies. In my opinion this was his strongest era musically. He just sounded more relaxed on songs.

If Invincible was released today, it would be number one!

 

[loka]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

i put this album way ahead of History...
This album is not too long. You don't have to listen to it entirely each time lol. I don't get this complaint.

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Invincible is the same length as Dangerous and HIStory. 77 minutes

 

[jamba]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

I read somewhere a statement by Seth Riggs that a singer's voice is not mature and at its peak til age 50 and after. In that case, Invincible gives us MJ's voice at the closest to its peak and I think you hear that on the album. The vocals are just incredible--very beautiful. I feel so bad for him that it was not appreciated by the critics when it was released and that he did not get to do the film of Unbreakable that he wanted to do--where he breaks into pieces after falling off a high building and then comes back together and turns into a dancing flame (according to Frank Cascio anyway). I know myself as a creative person that when you put all your time and energy into a long project, there is a certain depression and loss when it is done regardless of the reception, but if the reception is a bunch of stupid putdowns and insults, wow--what a huge letdown that must have been. I read somewhere that he attended the SONY listening party where the SONY execs listened to the album-- they all listened and then just walked out without saying a word. OMG.

 

[Prince Of Pop]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Butterflies is a great song. It's a throwback to the Off The Wall era IMO, and if you compare it to the other two singles released from Invincible...it was the best single released.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

Invincible is the same length as Dangerous and HIStory. 77 minutes

It feels longer.

 

[analogue]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

It feels longer.

Maybe because (IMO) it's not as good as Dangerous and HIStory. The more you enjoy something the shorter it seems

 

[MJJA]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

We can debate about the quality of the songs because everyone is going to have songs that they love, like or hate. What I think gets missed about invincible is that MJ was in an entirely different place emotionally and psychologically then ever before.
In the late 70's through the late 80's MJ is an energetic young man bursting with creative exuberance and that was reflected in his music.
As he enters the nineties he is maturing into a more thoughtful mature artist as his life experiences change and his view on the world around him changes. On history he is a very angry man and that is reflected in his music.
By the time He is making invincible he is past his anger and is now a much more mature man in his forties with two kids and because of them he is in a much more mellow, calm and loving place and perhaps a much more reflective one. Micheal by this stage isn't the young man bursting with youthful exuberance or the angrier more socially conscious MJ of the nineties. It would not have made sense for his music to sound the same or to feel the same as it did before.
DWA is clearly inspired by his relationship with Lisa while songs like the LC, Speechless and YAML are inspired by his kids.
Do I think it is his best work-No. Though I am a fan and I understand why the album sounds and feels like it does.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

When I read how some of the fans state as matter of factly what are the "best songs" and what are the "worst song" I am more convinced the album is still GREAT overall. Because each one has his own 3 songs he may consider the "worst" but it wouldn't be as deterimined among all the fans who are going to comment. Each fan has his own least favorite tracks. From each album. I think everybody agrees "Dangerous" is Michael's most loved album among fans and yet I bet we can all find 3 tracks we don't think are "as good".

Maybe the problem is the album has too many tracks so people have their songs they ALWAYS skip or just wait for them to be over. But again. Xscape has 8 songs and I sometimes skip some - Before you say anything - With Thriller, too... sometimes.

As for "too many writers" - you don't know that until you open the booklet, do you? I mean, I can't possibly tell how many people wrote the songs just by listening to it, it's not like you have 2 lines in a row that have nothing to do with each other. So that's just psychology. I would have loved MJ to have the whole credit for the album, but it doesn't mean I think it's better than "Bad" in which Michael wrote alone 90% of the album. (for that reason)

I think Invincible would have been more welcomed in the Itunes era, where each person builds his own album, deletes tracks he doesn't like and sorts the songs the way he prefers. Though I'm still pretty sure most of the fans would have kept the album the way it is.

 

[ChrisC]

Re: So, Invincible is much better than everybody thought....

For me many of the songs are weak.

And the production to me sounds awfully cheap and artificial on many tracks - something achingly clear when the song's themselves aren't so strong.

It has nice moments, that's about the best I can say.