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Janet on the cover of Essence Magazine

Poor Janet...She is a saint.
 
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ginvid said:
I disagree that it has been for very much of Janet's life. For a very long time in hollywood curvier women were not appreciated. throughout history, fuller figured women have come in and gone out of favor. Particularly in entertainment, unless you can find a niche that makes it otherwise, it is better to be thinner in shape.

There are so many people coming down on Hollywood and magazines for pushing a thin body type on young girls. Despite hearing a song praising a body part eating disorders, low self esteem, etc, are very much a part of many people's lives because thin is always in. (Well usually anyway).

Even MJ said he would rtalk to Janet about her weight because he thought it would help her career to be thinner. With all of these pressures coming from all sides, it is no wonder that weight issues continue to plague so many. And it is no wonder that Janet has had an issue with this for so long. This struggle of hers is one that I VERY much identify with.
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you want some niches? i'll give you some niches. they are names of very famous women. you and i must be reading different mags. Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez, and Kim Kardashian are the envy of many. they all have big butts. the sir mix alot song, baby got back, you could never hear the end of it. from Marylin Monroe to Anna Nicole Smith, the love for a full woman has been here for more than fifty years. any low grade mag that tried to get people to think that a woman with no weight to her, was the way to go, is a mag that came and went. the women who are considred legends, such as Elizabeth Taylor, were not skinny. no doubt people struggle with the issue of weight...and there are some men who gave bad signals about what was considered healthy, but there are ads out en masse that advertise the idea of expandable breasts, and padding for the behind, that are making a killing, financially. so..this issue, which is a matter of individual taste, is the kind where, the mass opinion is not dominated by people who think the Beyonce body type is unattractive. what you are basically telling me is that the really popular status of full bodied women like Marilyn, through Anna Nicole, is a figment of my imagination, along with the full bodied women that men like in porn(which, of course, nobody looks at, either, i guess)

i think comparing this individual taste thing with what MJ went through is truly unfair. there are plenty of support groups full of really hot women who can make a full figured woman feel good. not many support groups for being branded a child molester, by the media, for life, despite the court of law. so, quite frankly, i don't know where the MJ comparison started coming into this thread. he's dead, because of that evil. the issue of a full bodied woman, situation, with all these hot examples i put out there, cannot be considered the same thing.

and i'd like a link, concerning MJ acting as if Janet's career was so on hold, he felt like he had to give her advice. from what i saw, he congratulated her for a successful career.

let me just be blunt, going back to this body image thing. i don't know any guys who like a woman without some serious ass. and i don't know of any women, who don't know that.
 
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You mistake me in saying that JLO and Beyonce and Kim are not popular now. They are. And Janet has less of a problem with her full figure now. But throughout her time growing up, as I said, the fuller figured woman has come into and then fallen out of popularity. Kate Moss, Twiggy, and I am sure many others were also at one time popular boy types. And they were waif and thin.

And especially in entertainment, we see that the thinner a person is the better, unless a person can find a specific niche that appreciates their fuller figure as say Jayne Mansfield or as you said Marilyn Monroe. The majority of women that are fed to women (as say in women's and teen magazines) are very thin. I am sure you do not regularly read teen and women magazines. And I am sure you will agree that the porn indusrty is not main stream enough to have their image pushed to young girls.

Even recently there has been an uproar against girls magazines for teaching girls at a young age to be self conscious about their bodies. The world Janet grew up in and the world I grew up in, very much says that "you can never be too thin". When you take this sometimes unreachable expectation and couple it with a family environment that brings an insecurity about weight even more to the fore, you can see how for some it can be a life long battle.

If you even watch shows about the modeling business, they will even say that the most successful women are very thin. What is marketed to men is different than what is fed to women. Your seeing that men love a fuller figure is not your imagination. And that is why Janet said JD had to help her appreciate that her figure was beautiful.
 
ginvid said:
You mistake me in saying that JLO and Beyonce and Kim are not popular now. They are. And Janet has less of a problem with her full figure now. But throughout her time growing up, as I said, the fuller figured woman has come into and then fallen out of popularity. Kate Moss, Twiggy, and I am sure many others were also at one time popular boy types. And they were waif and thin.

And especially in entertainment, we see that the thinner a person is the better, unless a person can find a specific niche that appreciates their fuller figure as say Jayne Mansfield or as you said Marilyn Monroe. The majority of women that are fed to women (as say in women's and teen magazines) are very thin. I am sure you do not regularly read teen and women magazines. And I am sure you will agree that the porn indusrty is not main stream enough to have their image pushed to young girls.

Even recently there has been an uproar against girls magazines for teaching girls at a young age to be self conscious about their bodies. The world Janet grew up in and the world I grew up in, very much says that "you can never be too thin". When you take this sometimes unreachable expectation and couple it with a family environment that brings an insecurity about weight even more to the fore, you can see how for some it can be a life long battle.

If you even watch shows about the modeling business, they will even say that the most successful women are very thin. What is marketed to men is different than what is fed to women. Your seeing that men love a fuller figure is not your imagination. And that is why Janet said JD had to help her appreciate that her figure was beautiful.
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well..that's what you and i agree on. Janet got help. she didn't have to overcome by herself. it's hard to believe she didn't see these other women, who were fuller figure, like her, and famous. and i don't know that women ignore FHM magazine, STUFF magazine, Cosmo, and KING, and GQ. they are being interviewed in those mags. those mags have been around for quite a few years..and there are meaty women in them. and, while i may out a few people..the porn industry is a billion dollar industry..so i know both sexes are looking at it, mainstream.

i am not belittling the struggle..but i do feel that the opposite view, that i espouse, is being minimized. i think the magazines, 'aimed at men', are being seen by women, even though you say they are not. and i believe they are mags that are aimed at women, too. they are out there on the shelves, right next to each other, where anybody can grab them. and like i said..the women know about them, cus there are thick women, lining up to be interviewed in them. and they are being granted the interviews. and, lastly, the women you mention, i don't hear of, these days. the ones i mentioned, have never left our collective consciousness. and they are all full figured. and...for all the women who don't know that the ass is king...i don't see them. for years..every time i went outside...i've seen so many women who proudly wear tight jeans on meaty butt. i don't know how else to put it, to get my point across. all these women had to know about this, in order to flaunt it.

speaking of shows on modeling...who is the most popular host of a modeling show enterprise? you know the name. Tyra Banks. and she's got butt. and she was in a Michael Jackson video..and that flies in the face of his supposed beliefs about how a woman's butt should look.

and..by the way...in Janet's break out successful album, Control..all those vids feature a Janet with some butt. that was almost twenty five years ago. a good portion of her life, ago.

here is what i am saying, in true conclusion. i get the idea from you, that the 'thin' school of thought, dominates.

but what i am saying is..that, at least...that school of thought is in a boxing ring with a hell of a contender fighting against it. and that is the 'thick' school of thought. and Janet benefitted from the fact that the battle was a lot more formidable, than it was one sided.
 
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I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that magazines start with females before they are women and can even appreciate what men like. Teenage girls (like 13, 12, maybe even 14) are not reading FHM or Cosmo or King. They are also not historically big watchers of porn. But by this age, girls are already given the message that you have to be very thin. Hence why there has been a huge spike in the preteen market that has developed eating disorders. When you are being fed this from so young an age, it is no wonder more and more girls are developing poor body images. I as a young girl used to read YM, teen, and all the other magazines for young girls. They ALWAYS had articles for even that young an age about losing weight, getting thin and staying thin. This is the reality of a young girl growing up in Janet's or even my age.

It is turning now so that people are becoming more acceptive of a fuller woman. But this most assuredly has not always been. I am the biggest of all my family members. I was constantly teased because of my weight. My mother, after having 4 of her 6 children at 5'7 was still 98 lbs. my mother was used to everyone in the family being very thin. She would buy my sisters these short cute little dresses and buy me stuff that was just plain ugly. I used to cry about it. All of the time. I was 5'4 and 120 lbs. I remember going on diets when I was 8 years old. i remember my family making jokes about me making the car lean on my side. I used to cry so much.

Fast forward to today. Even though a fuller girl is in, and I am now much curvier than I was then, i still hate it. If I could make myself throw up, I would. I tried it doesn't work for me. I even tried to use an emitic, but I burst a blood vessel in my head when it made my pressure shoot up too high. Do I see women like JLO and Beyonce around? Sure do. But I don't care. i want to be very thin. People at work now talk about my bubble butt and how they wish they had it. I tell them they do not want it. Clothes for women are to this day made for flat chested, thin, straight women (women without curves).

People tell me men like such a figure. I tell them I don't care what men like. i want to look like what I want to look like. What I see in my head. But I am always disappointed. To this day, i hate taking pictures (I look like the Stay Puff Marshmellow man). I say all of this because I identify with Janet's struggle. It is good she is finding what triggered a self hating course and now she has corrected that. She is very fortunate. It is not about blaming others. But about finding where you have been hurt so that you can be healed.

I said it before that a doctor of mine said I was dysmorphic and needed counseling. Well, i just never went back to him again LOL! The propoganda that fuller women are sexy, is few and far between when compared to the constant images of a thin woman that is fed to younger and younger girls today.
 
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ginvid said:
I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that magazines start with females before they are women and can even appreciate what men like. Teenage girls (like 13, 12, maybe even 14) are not reading FHM or Cosmo or King. They are also not historically big watchers of porn. But by this age, girls are already given the message that you have to be very thin. Hence why there has been a huge spike in the preteen market that has developed eating disorders. When you are being fed this from so young an age, it is no wonder more and more girls are developing poor body images. I as a young girl used to read YM, teen, and all the other magazines for young girls. They ALWAYS had articles for even that young an age about losing weight, getting thin and staying thin. This is the reality of a young girl growing up in Janet's or even my age.

It is turning now so that people are becoming more acceptive of a fuller woman. But this most assuredly has not always been. I am the biggest of all my family members. I was constantly teased because of my weight. My mother, after having 4 of her 6 children at 5'7 was still 98 lbs. my mother was used to everyone in the family being very thin. She would buy my sisters these short cute little dresses and buy me stuff that was just plain ugly. I used to cry about it. All of the time. I was 5'4 and 120 lbs. I remember going on diets when I was 8 years old. i remember my family making jokes about me making the car lean on my side. I used to cry so much.

Fast forward to today. Even though a fuller girl is in, and I am now much curvier than I was then, i still hate it. If I could make myself throw up, I would. I tried it doesn't work for me. I even tried to use an emitic, but I burst a blood vessel in my head when it made my pressure shoot up too high. Do I see women like JLO and Beyonce around? Sure do. But I don't care. i want to be very thin. People at work now talk about my bubble butt and how they wish they had it. I tell them they do not want it. Clothes for women are to this day made for flat chested, thin, straight women (women without curves).

People tell me men like such a figure. I tell them I don't care what men like. i want to look like what I want to look like. What I see in my head. But I am always disappointed. To this day, i hate taking pictures (I look like the Stay Puff Marshmellow man). I say all of this because I identify with Janet's struggle. It is good she is finding what triggered a self hating course and now she has corrected that. She is very fortunate. It is not about blaming others. But about finding where you have been hurt so that you can be healed.

I said it before that a doctor of mine said I was dysmorphic and needed counseling. Well, i just never went back to him again LOL! The propoganda that fuller women are sexy, is few and far between when compared to the constant images of a thin woman that is fed to younger and younger girls today.
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i'm very sorry for what your loved ones put you through.

but can i be bold and ask..how do you know that no girls, whatsoever, read the magazines, i mentioned? how can you be so sure that there aren't teenage girls who look up to the women being interviewed in the mags i mentioned? how can you be sure, that we can blanket an entire population. and yes..how can you be sure, young girls don't look at porn?

all i am saying is, at least, Janet is giving a lot of mixed messages, because of how she looked in her hit song years.

all i am saying that there is plenty of help out there, that has given girls confidence in thickness. and the last three images that i remember dominating the video screen, as long lasting success stories, were the muscular Madonna..and the shapely Britney Spears. now tell me what girls missed out on seeing those images? for that matter, a pregnant Demi Moore. in the midst of all that, was Janet. these are images that a girl or a boy didn't have to look for, because they were put out there on TV. not to mention the R rated videos, that every rapper put out..and what the girls and women looked like in those. plenty of body. in fact..women and girls were too busy complaining about being objectified in those, to have time to say whether or not the girls were too skinny. no skinny women in those rapper videos. and there were PLENTY of those videos as we ALL know. women of ALL colors.

what can i say? perhaps it's very hard for me to see that there isn't at least a support mechanism, because i have seen so many hot women...all of them thick...and young, and desirable and unattainable looking..and proud looking, for years. and it's hard for me to see that Janet couldn't look to her left, then to her right, and see hot thick women, that looked like her.
 
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idk if britney spears were highly affected by this but her brother use to tease about her butt

 
billyworld99 said:
idk if britney spears were highly affected by this but her brother use to tease about her butt
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i doubt in that clip that Britney is ashamed of her...assets. she looks happy, and acts as if that song was dedicated to her. and quite frankly..i don't blame her.
 
ginvid said:
I just want to again ask for everyone to stay on topic. This is a thread only about the Essence magazine. Please reserve comments to what Janet has said here.



You are absolutely correct in this regard. I don't see Janet as playing a blame game. It is realistic that she would be shaped by her childhood experiences. We all are. Michael went through the same thing in his life as well. He was constantly tormented as an adult by what he suffered as a child. And it became very much a part of who he became.

This is not more so a comparison between Janet and MJ; but, a comparison between Janet, MJ, and all of the rest of us.
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ginvid said:
I disagree that it has been for very much of Janet's life. For a very long time in hollywood curvier women were not appreciated. throughout history, fuller figured women have come in and gone out of favor. Particularly in entertainment, unless you can find a niche that makes it otherwise, it is better to be thinner in shape.

There are so many people coming down on Hollywood and magazines for pushing a thin body type on young girls. Despite hearing a song praising a body part eating disorders, low self esteem, etc, are very much a part of many people's lives because thin is always in. (Well usually anyway).

Even MJ said he would rtalk to Janet about her weight because he thought it would help her career to be thinner. With all of these pressures coming from all sides, it is no wonder that weight issues continue to plague so many. And it is no wonder that Janet has had an issue with this for so long. This struggle of hers is one that I VERY much identify with.
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You might just be my new favorite staff member. :wub:
 
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