Jordan Chandler Discussion Thread

[la_cienega]

It's not impossible that the parents will try to blackmail the criminal instead of reporting him to the police.

What about blackmailing him even before the supposed victim has confessed?

Then refusing to take him to criminal court because they claim they were afraid of the publicity, but instead immediately seeking to publish a book about him? Within days of the insurance settling they were trying to sell their book. Then they blamed Sneddon for no conviction.

 

[bluetopez]

It's not impossible that the parents will try to blackmail the criminal instead of reporting him to the police.

And to u MJ was that Criminal in this case or what? :mello: U could have at least said alleged if u were trying to make some kind of an example u know. But, not even that if u actually read through this thread. Cause that sure wasn't what happened in 93 between the Chandlers and MJ.

 

[Petrarose]

^^Discussions will be healthier if we take the time to go back a few pages & read before posting. When people don't do that they misinterpret the focus of statements.

 

[bluetopez]

I got the 94 GQ article in book form from Amazon yesterday. Just thought I share. =) Very happy that it's available for others to read now. The original mag is pretty hard to find and must cost a lot to get now a days?! I myself never had the chance to buy it when it first came out. The first time I came across it was yrs ago online, then printed it out and still have it all these yrs later. So I just and to get the book, hopefully one day if I'm lucky I can get a hold of the original mag?! That be cool!

 

[8701girl]

Yeh that 94 gq article is hard to find nowadays cuz the media just dont the general public to see it so they i guess dont show it around.

 

[Bubs]

This is a little bit ott, but I'd like to put this out there.

I came across an article of The Jobs With The Most Psychopaths.
While I was reading the list, some people's faces popped in my mind,
in relation how MJ was treated by media and other people during 93 and 2005, they seemed to be so extreme that they easily could have been/were psychopaths.

So what were the kinds of jobs most likely to attract psychopaths, and those least likely?

Highest Rates of Psychopathy:
1. CEO
2. Lawyer (Sneddon & his entourage)
3. Media (Television/Radio) (Demon Dimond, Nancy Grace, Bashir)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist (too many to list here)
7. Police Officer ( Neverland raid came to my mind, rabid overreaction from their part)
8. Clergy person
9. Chef
10. Civil Servant

Lowest Rates of Psychopathy:

1. Care Aide
2. Nurse
3. Therapist (Michael)
4. Craftsperson (Michael)
5. Beautician/Stylist (Michael)
6. Charity Worker (Michael)
7. Teacher (Michael)
8. Creative Artist (Michael)
9. Doctor
10. Accountant

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/02/the-jobs-with-the-most-psychopaths/

 

[HIStory]

^^ I don't think everyone of those people are psychopaths, just extremely prejudiced and/or sensationalist. However, I do think Evan was highly disturbed mentally and Victor Gurierrez may be a sociopath (apart from being a pedo). I also think there could be something wrong with Diane Dimond mentally too. I find it disturbing how she wrote all that crap about MJ all through those years, yet she keeps MJ pictures on her wall and dangles MJ's underwear on live TV.

 

[bluetopez]

Sometimes I wonder if Diane is another Oprah but she don't say so? Because her attack on MJ is waaaay to personal and wants to hurt him for someone else fault?! Or maybe she is a greedy ***** who got obsessed over a huge celeb because she can make money and her career out of him. Hmmm lol

 

[Petrarose]

I got the 94 GQ article in book form from Amazon yesterday. Just thought I share. =) Very happy that it's available for others to read now. The original mag is pretty hard to find and must cost a lot to get now a days?! I myself never had the chance to buy it when it first came out. The first time I came across it was yrs ago online, then printed it out and still have it all these yrs later. So I just and to get the book, hopefully one day if I'm lucky I can get a hold of the original mag?! That be cool!

I too had the copied pages, but never the original magazine. It is good that these things are coming back into the light.

About the death bed confession, I was thinking that unless he go's into remission & begins to feel afraid, we won't hear one. Sometimes when things are going well financially for people--they can go on ski vacations and live the big life, they do not do some real inner evaluation of their life, motives & behaviors. However, if they begin to enter some tragic/fearful situation and think that if they help or try to live a better life the tragedy/suffering/illness will subside, then they start asking for forgiveness and doing the right thing.

Lately, I have tried a new tactic with Jordan where I have stopped projecting hate towards him. I have begun to believe that those negative emotions are probably making him nastier and steadfast in his evil decision. I am hoping if I think of him with kindness, that these thoughts will influence him. I do not know if it works, but I am hoping.

 

[HIStory]

^ To me the Chandlers don't seem to be very religious, so I don't think they are afraid of some higher power or of going to Hell or something like that. Most of the family are Jewish, but they are more cultural Jews, than very religious. (I think Ray even mentioned of Evan once that he was a not religious Jew.) So I don't think we can hope for "asking for forgiveness" before death or something like that. We can only hope for conscience. Which Jordan either has or he doesn't. We don't know that. So far he seems to be pretty happy with his life and money, the ski vacations, the lavish lifestyle and everything...

Sometimes I wonder if Diane is another Oprah but she don't say so? Because her attack on MJ is waaaay to personal and wants to hurt him for someone else fault?! Or maybe she is a greedy ***** who got obsessed over a huge celeb because she can make money and her career out of him. Hmmm lol

I think Diane is just way too unprofessional. She took sides at the very beginning, because her sources included the Chandlers and the DA's office and journalists tend to be loyal to those who offer them info, no matter if that side is right or wrong. And after she took sides there was no way back to her, she had to stick to that side, even if evidence speaks against that side. But to be honest I don't think she's even bright enough to realize how evidence is against the side she supported all along. She seems to be someone who takes everything her sources tell her at face value, without ever background checking that info. Hence her fiasco with Victor Gutierrez. In short she's a very ambitious but too stupid tabloid journalist, who made a career of the fact that people from the accusing side chose her as their media outlet. (And perhaps she was chosen exactly because she is not too bright...) After building a career on this lie, how could she ever backtrack? She needs to try to promote and keep up the lie for as long as she can. It's pretty personal to her, after all her whole career crumbles if people realize Michael was innocent.

 

[8701girl]

bout the death bed confession, I was thinking that unless he go's into remission & begins to feel afraid, we won't hear one. Sometimes when things are going well financially for people--they can go on ski vacations and live the big life, they do not do some real inner evaluation of their life, motives & behaviors. However, if they begin to enter some tragic/fearful situation and think that if they help or try to live a better life the tragedy/suffering/illness will subside, then they start asking for forgiveness and doing the right thing.

What is this bout a death bed confession? you refering to evan or jordie?

 

[la_cienega]

What is this bout a death bed confession? you refering to evan or jordie?

Jordan.

Assume he won't say anything now because if he could get through the last 20 years, one trial, MJ's death and Evan's death and still not say anything, it seems safe to assume he never will unless he does it on his death bed.

 

[bluetopez]

Yes Diane isn't to bright! It's like the devil got her by the leg. Well, at least someone like Jones learned her lesson. =)

 

[Petrarose]

What is this bout a death bed confession? you refering to evan or jordie?

Oh I was referring to the first post of the thread--the possibility of a death bed confession by Jordan. I still think that something has to shake this guy up big time for him to say the truth, something where he feels if he confesses something will go easier for him. Right now he stands to win nothing by stating the truth & he seems to be motivated by big money.

 

[la_cienega]

Oh I was referring to the first post of the thread--the possibility of a death bed confession by Jordan. I still think that something has to shake this guy up big time for him to say the truth, something where he feels if he confesses something will go easier for him. Right now he stands to win nothing by stating the truth & he seems to be motivated by big money.

I agree. I think he's happy living his life like this.

I don't think he has a conscience the way we hope someone like him would.

Right now he'd need to interrupt his world for at least a month or so if he were to confess, and all his friends/family would also be dealing with sudden interest.

But he has enough money to cope with it, the way he did when MJ had to go through hell in 2005 and when he died in 2009.

Jordan is obviously a very self involved person, and so it's hard to know what his motivations or feelings about anything are.

What's funny is he technically is currently "hiding" in many ways, he has to be conscious of himself publicly in many ways, whereas if he just came forward it would end it for him and for everyone around him. That's why you know he's completely selfish, he only cares about how it affects him.

Unless there's a big situation which directly involves Jordan, then I don't see him volunteering a confession. I only see him hoping he gets to live with this ambiguity his whole life. It's pathetic, but he comes across pretty pathetic in many ways.

 

[HIStory]

Although we'd like to hope guilt is eating him up inside, I'm afraid that's just wishful thinking. Not everyone feels remorse and has a guilty feeling when they have done something wrong. There are people who are selfish and have no conscience. When we think about it: his parents were two amoral people who accused an innocent man of one of the most horrible crimes for money, which put a stigma on this man in front of the whole World forever. His step-father, David Schwartz too joined in when his attempts to get money from Michael failed. With parents like that why would Jordan be this moral guy who is struggling with bad conscience and guilt? I think this family is very, very material and money is top priority for them and Jordan grew up with this priority.

 

[8701girl]

Jordan.

Assume he won't say anything now because if he could get through the last 20 years, one trial, MJ's death and Evan's death and still not say anything, it seems safe to assume he never will unless he does it on his death bed.

I dont even think on his death bed he will confess

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Unless there's a big situation which directly involves Jordan, then I don't see him volunteering a confession. I only see him hoping he gets to live with this ambiguity his whole life. It's pathetic, but he comes across pretty pathetic in many ways.

I'm wondering how ppb will play it when they get older. Whether they're going to let sleeping dogs lie, or feel the need to go out there and proclaim mj's innocence and try and force jordie's hand and put the spotlight on him. I hope they have the inquiring intelligence to really try and understand everything related tothe allegations as it's v complicated, and not just rely on the fake confession that the rest of the family seem to do. I do not want jordie to just be allowed to fade into the background and memories of a few diehard mj supporters - he doesn't deserve that. I hope this thread remains active. It's by far the most important issue affecting mj's legacy.

 

[la_cienega]

Agreed, and I also hope so.

I believe the kids will defend MJ fiercely about it, but I'm hoping it's not as awkwardly as their relatives do. I feel a lot of the pressure will be placed onto them, with the media suddenly running about suggesting they don't really know what they're talking about or as though they're obliged to defend him, in order to dismiss them and him. I think Oprah was hoping that Paris would bring it up when she asked about the bullying, knowing how big a headline that would've scored for her show. Which was just so obnoxious considering it's people like Oprah who have allowed the environment about the allegations to fester.

But I think if they're ridiculed or challenged about it, knowing Paris, she'll come back really hard. I don't see her being like the rest of the Jacksons and being really coy about it. I just hope she's prepared.

I also suspect that they will realize very very very quickly how big an issue this will be for them if they don't handle it adequately, and an issue that will come back again and again for them. We've seen 3 interviews already where they just asked about the masks, even Oprah had to ask her twice about them. So I think they'll learn quickly that even if they don't want to have to go through talking about it, it's going to be something forced upon them. They've already been exposed to some of it on twitter, and I imagine with kids at their school. But I don't know if they realize just how much they're up against. The media won't let them win it easily.

I want Jordan to squirm through every moment of it too.

 

[Petrarose]

I agree. I think he's happy living his life like this.

I don't think he has a conscience the way we hope someone like him would.

Right now he'd need to interrupt his world for at least a month or so if he were to confess, and all his friends/family would also be dealing with sudden interest.

But he has enough money to cope with it, the way he did when MJ had to go through hell in 2005 and when he died in 2009.

Jordan is obviously a very self involved person, and so it's hard to know what his motivations or feelings about anything are.

What's funny is he technically is currently "hiding" in many ways, he has to be conscious of himself publicly in many ways, whereas if he just came forward it would end it for him and for everyone around him. That's why you know he's completely selfish, he only cares about how it affects him.

Unless there's a big situation which directly involves Jordan, then I don't see him volunteering a confession. I only see him hoping he gets to live with this ambiguity his whole life. It's pathetic, but he comes across pretty pathetic in many ways.

sometimes I wonder if he gets a sense of self-importance from it all. You know he knows that this mess hinges on his word and maybe he is enjoying the feeling of being so crucial to something working.

Guys no offense, but I was thinking that maybe we should not bring the children & their stance and actions about this too much into the thread. Somehow it gives me an uncomfortable feeling. I was wondering if we should simple discuss this among ourselves by looking at the relevant players, facts, our thoughts & wait until the kids become involved in this before bringing them up in the thread. This is a very devastating & nasty topic & maybe we should not be the ones to put the little ones here right now. Any thoughts.....

 

[bluetopez]

Ya let's not worry about the kids on this matter right now. It be best to see what happens when they get older. Cause no doubt that question will be asked to them. The press won't do it now cause their just kids, but u wait and see it's definitely coming in the near future. And all that can be said is that hopefully they handle it well, unlike other family members and MJ friends have.

 

[Billie Jean 78]

sometimes I wonder if he gets a sense of self-importance from it all. You know he knows that this mess hinges on his word and maybe he is enjoying the feeling of being so crucial to something working.

I've been thinking about it... We don't know what Jordan went through in his life and maybe he's had his share of suffering in his family and the only way to release that tention is to hurt other people (or animals). You know instead of pulling out wings of insects... He pulled out Michael's wings and Michael wasn't able to fly properly ever since. Maybe he does have the need to hurt someone to compensate his own misery. In that case we may forget a confession.

Guys no offense, but I was thinking that maybe we should not bring the children & their stance and actions about this too much into the thread. Somehow it gives me an uncomfortable feeling. I was wondering if we should simple discuss this among ourselves by looking at the relevant players, facts, our thoughts & wait until the kids become involved in this before bringing them up in the thread. This is a very devastating & nasty topic & maybe we should not be the ones to put the little ones here right now. Any thoughts.....

I know this question will be asked but what can the Kids really say about Jordan? They've never met him, they were born after the affair.

The Arvizos on the other hand may be a different story, at least for Prince. I'm sure he must remember it somehow, the Arvizos, the trial...

 

[bluetopez]

^Well, MJ kids can basically show and have that by MJ raising them so well he isn't a danger to any child, like so many try to say.

But, of course someone like Diane Diamond would dispute that and actually has by saying in an interview once that pedophiles don't go out and harm their own children, but other people children.

Which is B.S because a real child molester doesn't care and there are molesters who have harmed their own child cause they can't control themselves. By the way Diane doesn't even believe PPB are even Michael's, so she contradicted herself with her own statement. SMH Can she get anymore slower? lol

 

[HIStory]

I've been thinking about it... We don't know what Jordan went through in his life and maybe he's had his share of suffering in his family and the only way to release that tention is to hurt other people (or animals). You know instead of pulling out wings of insects... He pulled out Michael's wings and Michael wasn't able to fly properly ever since. Maybe he does have the need to hurt someone to compensate his own misery. In that case we may forget a confession.

I don't think this is the case. I think he simply doesn't want to stir up his convenient, millionaire life with a confession. Also let's not forget a confession would reflect badly on some of his family members (June, Ray). Oh, and based on what we know of him he isn't suffering. He lives a pretty lavish lifestyle and has a lot of fun with his money.

I also don't think he wants to hurt Michael intentionally (Evan wanted to hurt him, Jordan did not). Michael is just collateral damage to them.

 

[HIStory]

But, of course someone like Diane Diamond would dispute that and actually has by saying in an interview once that pedophiles don't go out and harm their own children, but other people children.

Which is B.S because a real child molester doesn't care and there are molesters who have harmed their own child cause they can't control themselves. By the way Diane doesn't even believe PPB are even Michael's, so she contradicted herself with her own statement. SMH Can she get anymore slower? lol

Diane tends to pull claims out of her a** just like that. In reality, many child molestation cases are within families. Pedophiles often molest their own children too.

 

[la_cienega]

^Well, MJ kids can basically show and have that by MJ raising them so well he isn't a danger to any child, like so many try to say.

But, of course someone like Diane Diamond would dispute that and actually has by saying in an interview once that pedophiles don't go out and harm their own children, but other people children.

Which is B.S because a real child molester doesn't care and there are molesters who have harmed their own child cause they can't control themselves. By the way Diane doesn't even believe PPB are even Michael's, so she contradicted herself with her own statement. SMH Can she get anymore slower? lol

Always excuses with them. Michael molests everyone! Except he's really selective about who he molests according to the Chandlers, but yet according to them he molested Macaulay, Wade, Brett, Safechuck, Elijah Jackson and Corey Feldman. It's weird how they all deny it and there's no proof they were molested.

But obviously he wouldn't molest his own children, he'd just let the kids he did abuse around them, like have Mac as their god father, think of Omer as a family member, raised around the Cascio's, still in contact with all the other kids he knew. Mike's just like that.

And we mustn't forget that according to Gavin Arvizo Michael was very very very creepy towards his own son. Gavin and Star said Michael had put porn on his computer and then turned to his own son and said, "Prince, got milk?" Now, if Michael was willing to do that to his 3 year old son, why the hell wouldn't he also sexually abuse him? Michael was also making phonecalls to women during plane rides where he asked them about how big their vaginas were, right next to Prince, Paris, Blanket. He kept his liquor open all around all types of children, that would include his own. He left his porn laying about intentionally in the hopes children would discover it, that would include his own.

And according to many people like Randall Sullivan, Michael was sexually bizarre and had a messed up idea of sexuality and could be so sexually confused he would masturbate on the phone to a child, so why wouldn't he also be so messed up he would act inappropriate towards his own kids?

So they can't have it both ways.

The worst part is that they hoped his children had been sexually abused.

 

[Bubs]

^^^Person who imagined all that la_cienga mentions above, must be very sick person:bugeyed

 

[HIStory]

Michael was also making phonecalls to women during plane rides where he asked them about how big their vaginas were, right next to Prince, Paris, Blanket.

LOL, stories like this probably show what the Arvizo boys are doing. Considering how creepy they are - especially Star.

 

[la_cienega]

Lamere said she felt the Arviso children behaved unnaturally in terms of sex, this was long before they met Michael. She was especially disturbed at how Star Arvizo would flirt with full grown women. Gavin's email of course was "sexy" something.

^^^Person who imagined all that la_cienga mentions above, must be very sick person:bugeyed

Maureen Orth, Diane Dimond and Sneddon all insist the Arvizo's are telling the truth, the media insist they told the truth when they report MJ gave children alcohol in cans and when MJ forced Gavin into his bed.

So why would they choose to disbelieve these stories just because they're his own kids?

We can't forget MJ also taught Gavin Arvizo how to swear by taking him into a separate room and for 1 hour a day, just teaching him curse words. This is who Michael Jackson is. Sullivan quotes 100% Terry George saying MJ definitely masturbated on the phone to him as a child. He said Terry never sold his story for money so was the most credible victim. (We'll ignore his gay sex chatline or how he sold his story for money repeatedly and used MJ's name to profit with a website) Why would someone who has no boundaries like that suddenly develop them only with his own kids?

Do they think pedophiles don't get a kick out of having their own children be indoctrinated this way?

They can't have it both ways, though I know they will try and have it both ways when PPB speak out against who he was.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Yes, i remember at the memorial some us commentator noting that although paris looked devastated, the boys looked less so - it was v clear what he was insinuating.

The stories that others who don't have an axe to grind tell of how 'age appropriate' mj was with children are so so different to the stories gavin and star tell. Even jordan never came up with all that porn and alcohol ish. Didn't evan say he was super disturbed at mj's choice of presents for jordan in that they were too young and childish for a boy of jordan's age ie mj wasn't going round buying the boy subscriptions to hustler. There is the cute story of mj in the palm springs hotel in miami(?) going round his penthouse suite covering up all the nude art on the walls so his children didn't see. And the story from mark ronson, when he stayed at neverland in the late 80s with sean lennon as young boys and mj all aghast at them watching some adult tv channel and running over to turn it over.