Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson (Excerpts on page 19)

[Psychoniff]

Does this book available for kindle version?? its says only for uk customers..

Yes, it's cheap to, only 1.99.

So is it true that the title "Making Michael" is the story of the collaborators? Sounds like it from this.

It's a account of MJ's work with his collaborators. But it's favorable to MJ.

Wasn't that the title of Joseph's book?

What "Making Michael"?

What was he angry about?

Who was angry?

 

[HIStory]

Who was angry?

She's asking you about this:

BILL BOTTRELL

A key member of the production team which created the Dangerous album with Michael, Bottrell produced the number one smash hits ‘Black or White’ and ‘Earth Song’. Bottrell also produced the Madonna number one ‘Like a Prayer’ and the Sheryl Crow hit ‘All I Wanna Do’.

“I kicked around a bit and found the atmosphere chaotic and out of control. There were no adults, and lots of people working in different rooms. And Michael was in trouble. He was angry and abusive, and I shall forever regret leaving him that way. Forever.”

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Will we ever have a book that actually focuses on MJ's genius and presents why he was a genius? Sorry but I don't care about MJ's collaborators trying to make themselves out to be the stars, if this is what the book is about. I'd like to read a book that focuses on MJ's working method, his writing method etc. Like when that Beat It demo went viral and people were so impressed and so surprised - because this is the part that the media for some reason never presents.

"Making Michael" is such an arrogant title anyway. None of these people "made" Michael. Michael made himself before they even met him. Ugh, next.

But then maybe we will have to wait for a more comprehensive review before the final judgement on this book.

As for the whole who is given credit for what thing. MJ could have been credited for You Are Not Alone, but he wasn't. According to Rob Hoffman:



https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-...orked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album-4.html

But only R. Kelly is credited with that song.

If we wanna get nit picky about credits MJ also could have claimed co-credit for P.Y.T. because even though the song was changed drastically but he came up with the title and the idea. And didn't he also contribute something to Man In The Mirror?

Joe Vogel's book pretty much covered that. I don'y think we'll get much better than that.

So far from what I've read, this is not a attempt to "make themselves out tot be stars." It's pretty honest, with respect to what MJ actually did and they contributed. So far, the narrative is that MJ wrote the lyrics and melody, to most of the 90's songs whilst the music itself was written by his producers/collaborators. So the "Beat It" method was spared in the 90's.

I really don't think that this was the author's intentions, but hey, interpret the way you like.

Michael added the choir, but R Kelly was pissed that MJ gave himself producer credits.

It was Q. who came up with P.Y.T, he actually summoned about 12 songwriters (including MJ's version) to come up with a song of that nature. Q. liked James Ingram's the most.

Not sure about MITM.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

So far, the narrative is that MJ wrote the lyrics and melody, to most of the 90's songs whilst the music itself was written by his producers/collaborators.

But it does sound like making them out to be the actual writers of MJ's songs. But I'd really like to hear someone else's review as well and whether they see it as you, because honestly so far what I am hearing rather pisses me off. Buxer is portrayed now as almost the sole writer of SIM when at the Brad 2x seminar or in Vogel's book it's not what is claimed. So how did we come from "it was my biggest crontribution to an MJ song" and "we wrote a song together" to Brad being the sole writer of it (minus lyrics) now?

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Joe Vogel's book pretty much covered that. I don'y think we'll get much better than that.

So far from what I've read, this is not a attempt to "make themselves out tot be stars." It's pretty honest, with respect to what MJ actually did and they contributed. So far, the narrative is that MJ wrote the lyrics and melody, to most of the 90's songs whilst the music itself was written by his producers/collaborators.

I really don't think that this was the author's intentions, but hey, interpret the way you like. .

Well, to me, the melody and the lyrics ARE the song-so music sounds like the arrangement. I know songwriting changed a lot in the 80's with the multi-track-but...it's always been words and music.

WHAT WAS HE ANGRY ABOUT???????????????????? The Bill Bottrell story.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

She's asking you about this:

Probably Michael having one his tantrums.

 

[HIStory]

The HBO collapse story. It's just Sandy Gallin saying it was staged. Eye-witnesses say it definitely was not.

EXTRACT #7 : THE HBO SPECIAL COLLAPSE
October 18, 2015
In December 1995, Michael was set to perform at a historic Broadway theater for a highly anticipated cable concert special. But only two days before the first performance, Michael suddenly collapsed on stage while rehearsing. Michael was rushed to hospital, and his doctor said he was 'near death'. But some say Michael staged the collapse. Find the answers with Michael's manager Sandy Gallin and show producer Jeff Margolis in the final extract before the book is released tomorrow.

MICHAEL JACKSON: ONE NIGHT ONLY

In early December 1995, Michael flew to New York to begin rehearsing for a highly anticipated cable concert special, which was set to be screened on HBO at 8pm on Sunday, December 10. The special, called One Night Only, was due to be filmed at the historic 2,800 capacity Beacon Theater on Broadway over two successive nights on December 8 and 9, with the highlights edited together.

Michael hired top television producer Jeff Margolis, whom he had known for many years, to produce and direct the show. One of the projects the two had worked on together previously was the Sammy Davis Jr. 60th Anniversary Special in November 1989.​

Margolis said the decision to perform in such a small Broadway theatre was made by Michael and his managers. “They thought it would be really nice to see Michael in an intimate venue as opposed to the giant stadiums and arenas he was used to performing in, so both Michael and the fans could be closer to one another,” he explained.

As well as his classic hits, Michael was planning to perform some of the new material from HIStory, including ‘Earth Song’, ‘You Are Not Alone’, ‘Smile’ and ‘Childhood’. Michael had planned a special pantomime performance of ‘Childhood’ for the show with internationally acclaimed French actor and mime artist Marcel Marceau. The performance would have featured a courtyard scene, with Michael on the left-hand side of the stage and Marceau on the right, both bathed in pools of light. While Michael was singing the song, Marceau would have mimed its themes. “From the very beginning, he wanted me to display, in this song, the yearning of his youth,” Marceau said.



But at around 5pm on December 6, only two days before the first performance, Michael suddenly collapsed on stage while rehearsing ‘Black or White’ at the Beacon Theater. Jeff Margolis recalls the moment Michael fell face-first, hitting his head on a metal section of the stage flooring. “It was very frightening to all of us involved, we only hoped that he was OK,” the producer said. After paramedics arrived, Michael was rushed to Beth Israel Medical Center on the Upper East Side.

Many believed the incident was a publicity stunt or a way for Michael to get out of the commitment, because he was unhappy with aspects of the show. Michael’s estranged sister, La Toya, told the press the collapse was ‘a little scheme’ to get attention. After production began, Michael called in director Kenny Ortega – who had worked on the Dangerous Tour – because he was unhappy some of his classic choreography was being re-choreographed. Ortega said Michael seemed ‘anxious’ about what was happening around him. “I think that there were new choreographers that were brought in and the attempt was to put on a show with Michael’s music and to do choreography that was fresh and new and different,” Ortega said. “And Michael felt that the choreography was classic, timeless, and didn’t need to be changed, and he was unhappy about that.”

Michael said he was under a huge amount of pressure. “I worked so much to prepare that show, there was such a pressure, people pushing me to do this show no matter what,” he said. “Then finally, nature took its course and said, ‘Stop’. She decided I shouldn’t do that show.” Sandy Gallin says Michael simply decided he wasn’t going to do the show. “He didn’t think it was good enough, and he didn’t want to do it. He felt very insecure about it. He didn’t like the choreography, and had a real anxiety and fear about it. He just didn’t like what he was doing.”

But Margolis, who witnessed the collapse, says it was ‘definitely’ not staged. The doctor who treated Michael also said his patient was in a ‘critical’ condition. “He was dehydrated,” Dr William Alleyne said. “He had low blood pressure. He had a rapid heart rate. He was near death.” Within an hour of Michael’s arrival at the hospital, Dr Alleyne had him stabilised with intravenous fluids and other treatment, and transferred him to intensive care.

In the meantime, the world’s media and hundreds of fans began to gather outside the hospital. Michael’s visitors included Lisa Marie, his mother, his sister Janet, nephews 3T and long-time friend Diana Ross.

Even though the show was ready to go it was never rescheduled, costing both Michael and HBO a large sum of money. HBO officials had predicted the special would reach 250 million people worldwide. Jeff Margolis said the audience would have seen a side of Michael they had never seen before. “It would have really helped to move his career forward to the next chapter,” he said.

Michael described the version of ‘Childhood’ he was due to perform with Marceau as ‘wonderful’. “I adore this version of ‘Childhood’, it’s strange, nobody ever saw it…there are things like that which nobody will ever see,” he said.

After a week in hospital and further recuperation in his suite at the Four Seasons Hotel, Michael flew to Disneyland Paris for a break with the Cascio family.

It was an unfortunate end to what was a prolific year for Michael. Despite the marketing challenges Sony faced following the allegations, the HIStory campaign had started successfully.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Probably Michael having one his tantrums.

Ugh. Didn't you say you read the book? Barbee is asking you about the context of that quote from Bottrell.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

But it does sound like making them out to be the actual writers of MJ's songs. But I'd really like to hear someone else's review as well and whether they see it as you, because honestly so far what I am hearing rather pisses me off. Buxer is portrayed now as almost the sole writer of SIM when at the Brad 2x seminar or in Vogel's book it's not what is claimed. So how did we come from "it was my biggest crontribution to an MJ song" and "we wrote a song together" to Brad being the sole writer of it (minus lyrics) now?

But if that is indeed the truth, would you still be pissed?

 

[Virre]

Maybe someone could ask Shana Mangatal about Sandy Gallin saying it´s staged, she´s working for him (Gallin) at the time and praise him a lot.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Ugh. Didn't you say you read the book? Barbee is asking you about the context of that quote from Bottrell.

He was angry during the recording sessions. Bill just writing it the way he saw.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

But if that is indeed the truth, would you still be pissed?

Which version is the truth then? Because there are several versions now. Were the chords written for the Sonic game together with MJ or did Brad come up with them in that Moscow hotel room when MJ asked him to play something?

And to me the process that Brad describes about how the song was written in Moscow does not mean that he wrote the music. Him writing the music alone would have been giving a ready made demo to MJ with the music. That's not what happened here. He came up with the chords but while MJ was directing him. Without MJ those chords would have remained random chords and would have never become a song. Without MJ we would never have SIM - not even the music. So how can anyone suggest that Brad alone wrote the music then?

And generally speaking: The problem is that when only one side of a story is represented because the other party is dead anyone can say anything.

But again, I'd like to see some other reviews as well. Maybe others can shed a light on whether the book really comes across like this and wheter people really talk about songwriting or rather arrangements and production. Sometimes the lines can be blurred there. (Jerry Hey, for example, IS credited with the arrangement of Speed Demon.)

 

[HIStory]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

He was angry during the recording sessions. Bill just writing it the way he saw.

So there is no context given in the book?

 

[analogue]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Michael had no problems with sharing songwriting credits with other people. But when it came to Stranger In Moscow, MJ must have felt that what Brad added to the song wasn't worthy of a co-writers credit. Unfortunately, we'll never get to hear MJ's reasons of why he thought this.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

.....continued

*MJ was not happy with the final version of WBSS
*The reason Bad did not become a triple disc the way MJ suggested, was because of time-constraints.
*"For All Time" was not written during the Thriller sessions but during the Dangerous sessions in 1990.
*During the recording vocal session of "Keep The Faith" Michael's voice broke or 'cracked' again meaning he could no longer manage the higher notes.
*"Give In To Me" was originally envisioned as a 'dance' track

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Unless something more specific comes up I don't think these little stories prove Brad deserves any kind of writing credits for SIM.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Which version is the truth then? Because there are several versions now. Were the chords written for the Sonic game together with MJ or did Brad come up with them in that Moscow hotel room when MJ asked him to play something?

And to me the process that Brad describes about how the song was written in Moscow does not mean that he wrote the music. Him writing the music alone would have been giving a ready made demo to MJ with the music. That's not what happened here. He came up with the chords but while MJ was directing him. Without MJ those chords would have remained random chords and would have never become a song. Without MJ we would never have SIM - not even the music. So how can anyone suggest that Brad alone wrote the music then?

And generally speaking: The problem is that when only one side of a story is represented because the other party is dead anyone can say anything.

But again, I'd like to see some other reviews as well. Maybe others can shed a light on whether the book really comes across like this.

Brad used MJ's beatboxing the backbone for the drum parts. The rest is still ambiguous.

MJ did not want to be credited with the sonic tracks because he wasn't happy with final result.

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Michael had no problems with sharing songwriting credits with other people. But when it came to Stranger In Moscow, MJ must have felt that what Brad added to the song wasn't worthy of a co-writers credit. Unfortunately, we'll never get to hear MJ's reasons of why he thought this.

But that's a tad bit unfair on Brad don't you think? I think that that's what Paul Anka meant by MJ being 'ruthless'.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

But that's a tad bit unfair on Brad don't you think? I think that that's what Paul Anka meant by MJ being 'ruthless'.

You are aware that it wasn't MJ who didn't give Paul Anka the credit for This Is It, right?

 

[analogue]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

But that's a tad bit unfair on Brad don't you think? I think that that's what Paul Anka meant by MJ being 'ruthless'.

I think it's more unfair on MJ, because he isn't around to give his side of the story

 

[Augustino]

As I read on another side, the book also claims - quoting Bill Bottrell - that MJ was "abusive" in the studio during BOTDF:

That Bottrell quote doesn't make any sense.

“I kicked around a bit and found the atmosphere chaotic and out of control. There were no adults, and lots of people working in different rooms. And Michael was in trouble. He was angry and abusive, and I shall forever regret leaving him that way. Forever.”

There were no adults where? In the different rooms where lots of people were working? Non-adult people were working there?
He left him what way? He left him angry and abusive because if he had not left he would have stopped being angry and abusive?
And in what way was he abusive? If you watch This is it you can get some idea how abusive he was with the people he worked with.
This sounds absolute bullshit.

 

[Augustino]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

double post

 

[Psychoniff]

I think it's more unfair on MJ, because he isn't around to give his side of the story

But he has a history not giving people credit, or claiming things that he didn't do. Like claiming that he and his brothers wrote ALL of the songs on Destiny , when in fact BIOTB was written by namesake Mick Jackson. Giving himself producer credit on the Teddy Riley's tracks when in reality it was all Teddy's production etc.

You are aware that it wasn't MJ who didn't give Paul Anka the credit for This Is It, right?

Really?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

But he has a history not giving people credit, or claiming things that he didn't do.

Says who?

Really?

Yes, really.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Giving himself producer credit on the Teddy Riley's tracks when in reality it was all Teddy's production etc.

Which Teddy Riley track was all Teddy's production with no involvement of MJ whatsoever? And like InvincibleTal says: according to who?

And like I showed you there is also a history of him not taking credit for songs he could have (eg. YANA). Also. Did you know that Eric Clapton recorded Michael's version of Behind The Mask and Michael is not credited on his album credits? So it happens both ways. You are blowing it way out of proportion, trying to portray MJ as some kind of thief.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

As for Destiny, Michael never tried to take credit for BIOTB. He explicitly states in Moonwalk that some people thought he was the songwriter on that song when infact it was an English guy who was his namesake. When he said him and his brothers wrote all the songs on Destiny, I don't believe he was trying to take credit for BIOTB. The fact is, that one song aside, they DID write the entire album by themselves and it was the first time he and his brothers took on that much creative responsibility, so he was probably proud of that and wanted to share it with people. I think you're being overly nit-picky and trying to find examples of things that really are non-existant.

Exactly. MJ never claimed credit for Blame it on the Boogie. He explicitly states in Moonwalk that the Mick Jackson who wrote that song is not to be mistaken with him, it's just a coincidence.

And I am sure MJ did not always remember exactly which song is on what album - esp. from that era. For example during the Mexico depositions he mentioned That's What You Get (For Being Polite) and "Jack Still" as two seperate songs when the latter is just one line of the former - it's the same song. So it easily can be a genuine mistake that he forgot about BIOTB also being on that album while talking about Destiny in a given context. To use it against MJ is really deliberately negative nit-picking, since when specifically talking about BIOTB he never ever claimed that song was written by him.

 

[analogue]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

MJ isn't the only artist who took all the credit for a song, even when there was other people contributing to it. Look at Prince's ''Kiss. On that song Prince is credited as the only songwriter, but it was actually a collaboration between Prince and his band.

I think the story was that Prince came up with the idea of ''Kiss'' on an acoustic guitar, and then his band took that, added their own ideas and helped make the song what it is today.

Songwriting credits are tricky, and I think people got their own ideas about what someone has to do in order to get a co-composers credit on a song.

 

[analogue]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

Here's something I find interesting about ''Who Is It''

I think the story behind the creation of ''Who Is It'' is that Michael took a tape of him beatboxing the song to Brad Buxer, and then Brad Buxer added chords to that. But why isn't anyone saying that Brad should have gotten a co-composers credit for that song? He added chords, so that must be worthy of a songwriters credit, right? Unless of course Brad himself feels that simply adding chords is not worthy of a songwriters credit


This is what I mean about songwriting credits being a tricky thing

 

[Psychoniff]

Re: Making Michael: Inside the Career of Michael Jackson

What a crock.

You only have to listen to the early demos of Jam and Dangerous to hear that MJ more than deserved production credits for those two songs. Whilst they sound quite different from the album versions, the essence of the song and arrangement is all there and showed that Michael was the visionary behind those compositions.

But the music track was done by Renee Moore and Bruce S., not MJ. MJ did the melody and lyrics.

 

[HIStory]

Indeed songwriting credits are tricky.

Elvis Presley is credited for Heartbreak Hotel and some other songs he sings as a co-writer but in reality he did not write a note in them. It was simply a deal by his management that he would only record the song if he gets writing credits on them. At the time it was probably more of a financial thing than an ego thing.

Like I said, alone Roger Waters is credited for Money when it was really a band effort by Pink Floyd. Yes, Kiss by Prince is a good example as well, but his band members also complained otherwise from time to time to have contributed to some songs but not getting credit. I am sure we could list many, many famous songs where official writing credits do not quite match the reality of how that song really came about.

It also happens that a big name artist simply changes a word in a song lyric and that is used as a way for them to get songwriting co-credit. I am not sure how true it is, but I have seen Beyoncé being accused of having this practice.

And yes, there are grey areas as well. Whether something deserves rather co-writing credit or co-producing or arrangement credit. I guess what an artist thinks of what deserves what can vary.