Michael in the Media - Thread for Miscellaneous Articles

zinniabooklover

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OMG this made my entire night. Hell, it may have made my entire week. I LOVE this piece. I feel like I could have written this piece. Did you even notice all the references to his hair and his curls?
I did notice all the curls references. And "Michael as a magical faun"? That bit reminded me of that long conversation we all had on the 'Those Eyes' thread about Michael as a baby deer. It's a thing! It really is!

Me. I could have, but I didn't. Damn. But in fact, now I"m thinking I have to do this with my favorite MJ performances and videos because I have a brand new thought and feeling every 1-2 seconds while watching Michael perform. If I edit out 70% of the dirty ones
um, are you sure about that? Dirty thoughts? Maybe edit out approx 94.5% of those thoughts, not a measly 70%. :ROFLMAO:

and I may have a halfway decent article to publish somewhere (probably on a blog I haven't started yet, that no one will read once I do).
I have an entire Michael blog in my head. Or two. Or three. I just haven't brought them into the material world. Perhaps I never will. But they are there, they exist. Kind of. :ROFLMAO:

Doesn't this sound like a proper, yet delightful, waste of time??
Sounds fan-freakin'-tastic!

Anyway, I really adored this. I wish we had more articles like this that just totally go full fan crazy about everything that makes Michael Michael. I will always believe that he deserves all the possible praise so this was a real joy 🀩
Yeah, I also adored this. It was everything. Funny, full of love, wild with enthusiasm, clever and interesting assessments of the performance not to mention the cultural significance, thought-provoking ... I could go on but it's quicker just to say I loved it.
 
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staywild23

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I did notice all the curls references. And "Michael as a magical faun"? That bit reminded me of that long conversation we all had on the 'Those Eyes' thread about Michael as a baby deer. It's a thing! It really is!
I KNOW!!! He is a magical faun and a roaring beast all at once. It is the most precious combination.

um, are you sure about that? Dirty thoughts? I was thinking they occupied approx 94.5% of your thoughts, not a measly 70%. :ROFLMAO:
Oh, you misunderstood me. I meant I'd edit out 70% of the dirty thoughts, leaving 30% behind to keep things spicy πŸ˜‚ If you count all the thoughts before, during, and after, and the many thoughts that exist between each blink I take throughout the day, whether or not I am even looking at, or watching Michael, I would say the dirty thoughts are about 150% of my total brain capacity, which is probably why I am bursting at the seams with madness for him, while intellectually abandoning everything else in my life lol.

I have an entire Michael blog in my head. Or two. Or three. I just haven't brought them into the material world. Perhaps I never will. But they are there, they exist. Kind of. :ROFLMAO:
I'm just going to take a wild guess our blogs would be VERY different content-wise. But I think we'd be fans of each others and regular readers :)

Yeah, I also adored this. It was everything. Funny, full of love, wild with enthusiasm, clever and interesting assessments of the performance not to mention the cultural significance, thought-provoking ... I could go on but it's quicker just to say I loved it.
There are always quicker ways to say things, but where's the fun in that??

Loved it, loved it. Don't know how you came across it, but this is why I am so grateful for you.
 

zinniabooklover

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Oh, you misunderstood me. I meant I'd edit out 70% of the dirty thoughts, leaving 30% behind to keep things spicy πŸ˜‚
I literally JUST worked out what you meant. In fact, I went and amended my own comment so as not to look completely gonzo but you got your reply in ahead of me. So now I look doubly gonzo! Which is fine. I can take it, lol.

If you count all the thoughts before, during, and after, and the many thoughts that exist between each blink I take throughout the day, whether or not I am even looking at, or watching Michael, I would say the dirty thoughts are about 150% of my total brain capacity,
yeah, that sounds about right, lol

which is probably why I am bursting at the seams with madness for him, while intellectually abandoning everything else in my life lol.
Exploding, bursting into flames, bursting at the seams, being reduced to a 'puddle of nonsense'. Not to mention, my favourite - being 'shattered into oblivion'. Yes, you live an exhausting life but it sounds like fun!

I'm just going to take a wild guess our blogs would be VERY different content-wise. But I think we'd be fans of each others and regular readers :)
Well, yes and no. Totally different but there would be some overlap, imo. I can imagine us both having a lot to say about Sara Tenenbaum's Thriller thesis, for example. But, yeah, I don't think anyone would have any problem identifying the writer behind each blog. That's if I ever even publish mine. I really wanna do one - and it's all there in my head with regular updates and everything - but kinda lean towards not making it public.

There are always quicker ways to say things, but where's the fun in that??
:ROFLMAO:

Loved it, loved it. Don't know how you came across it, but this is why I am so grateful for you.
Yeah, it is an awesome piece. My entire Michael world atm consists of Dream Away. It has obliterated Disc 2 and pretty much everything else. But this article got through. It even makes me want to watch the performance. That's how strong the piece is.
 
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staywild23

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Exploding, bursting into flames, bursting at the seams, being reduced to a 'puddle of nonsense'. Not to mention, my favourite - being 'shattered into oblivion'. Yes, you live an exhausting life but it sounds like fun!
You have no idea. I have been absent from the board in my attempt to be responsible. I've also deleted my Twitter app and logged out of it on my computer, because I am a child and I cannot be trusted with a web browser. I have done all of this to contain my Michaeling because, believe it or not, I am STILL NOT DONE WITH GRADING. But you know where all of this effort has gotten me?

Zinnia -- I have Michaeled harder in the past two weeks than I have since the springtime when my life was in complete shambles over this man. I eat (πŸ₯΅ ), sleep, drink (πŸ₯΅ ), and breathe Michael 24/7. I am dreaming about him. I am waking up and thinking about him. If I am not watching or listening to him, I'm listening to podcasts about him, or watching tributes to him. I WATCHED THE ENTIRE 1984 GRAMMY'S ONE NIGHT. And you know what I did after that?? I WATCHD THE ENTIRE 1984 AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS. Do you know want to know why I watched the entirety of each show? Because I didn't want to miss the possibility of someone mentioning Michael and the camera flashing to him.

I am a freak. I am a lustful wildebeast. I am too in love to function. I am still not finished grading and does any part of you wonder why?

PS: Anyone else who is reading this thread, I promise I am a functioning and reasonable human being otherwise. Don't judge me on this alone.


Well, yes and no. Totally different but there would be some overlap, imo. I can imagine us both having a lot to say about Sara Tenenbaum's Thriller thesis, for example. But, yeah, I don't think anyone would have any problem identifying the writer behind each blog. That's if I ever even publish mine. I really wanna do one - and it's all there in my head with regular updates and everything - but kinda lean towards not making it public.
I think our imaginary blogs would be compatible in their own way. The intellectual discussions would be there in full form, either way!

Yeah, it is an awesome piece. My entire Michael world atm consists of Dream Away. It has obliterated Disc 2 and pretty much everything else.
I still have not listened to it and probably won't anytime soon. Hoping for an official release in the next few years. My T40 experience was so magical because I hadn't listened to almost any of the songs beforehand. So I'm trying to preserve that future possibility as much as possible. But I've heard wonderful things about it :)

Further thoughts.

You do realise that 30% of your dirty thoughts would fry my brain to a crisp? I mean, you understand that, right?

Just checking, lol.
You're right. In all honesty, there is not a single person on this planet that I am convinced could survive 30% of my dirty thoughts. 100% would be like a nuclear blast to North America. I need to keep this shit to myself πŸ˜‚
 

zinniabooklover

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You have no idea. I have been absent from the board in my attempt to be responsible. I've also deleted my Twitter app and logged out of it on my computer, because I am a child and I cannot be trusted with a web browser. I have done all of this to contain my Michaeling because, believe it or not, I am STILL NOT DONE WITH GRADING. But you know where all of this effort has gotten me?

Zinnia -- I have Michaeled harder in the past two weeks than I have since the springtime when my life was in complete shambles over this man. I eat (πŸ₯΅ ), sleep, drink (πŸ₯΅ ), and breathe Michael 24/7. I am dreaming about him. I am waking up and thinking about him. If I am not watching or listening to him, I'm listening to podcasts about him, or watching tributes to him. I WATCHED THE ENTIRE 1984 GRAMMY'S ONE NIGHT. And you know what I did after that?? I WATCHD THE ENTIRE 1984 AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS. Do you know want to know why I watched the entirety of each show? Because I didn't want to miss the possibility of someone mentioning Michael and the camera flashing to him.
This is exactly my point. I was on about this way back. Being on the board def reduces my Michaeling. Now, that's not to trash the board. It's great and, indeed, essential. Without the board I wouldn't have known about GOAL. Or the Stories in the Room thing - which hasn't happened yet but it's coming. I wouldn't have seen 3 million beautiful, exquisite gold leotard photos that I have NEVER seen in the media. So, yeah, the board is awesome. BUT ... it does cut into the Michaeling time. I'm getting better at balancing the two. Finally, after god knows how long.

You see that Michaeling sesh you just described? Sounds perfect to me.

I am a freak. I am a lustful wildebeast. I am too in love to function. I am still not finished grading and does any part of you wonder why?
:ROFLMAO:

PS: Anyone else who is reading this thread, I promise I am a functioning and reasonable human being otherwise. Don't judge me on this alone.
She really is, people. Totally reasonable, lol.

I think our imaginary blogs would be compatible in their own way. The intellectual discussions would be there in full form, either way!
:)

I still have not listened to it and probably won't anytime soon. Hoping for an official release in the next few years. My T40 experience was so magical because I hadn't listened to almost any of the songs beforehand. So I'm trying to preserve that future possibility as much as possible. But I've heard wonderful things about it :)
Yeah, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to listen to it. I do try to limit my comments about it to the DA thread. It is just so incredibly all - consuming for me so that is quite hard, trying to be low-key about it. I am SO content with it - even just the 'in my head' version and it's so fulfilling and means so much to me and I've only listened to it 5 times in, what? 4 weeks? 5 weeks?

I am super grateful for T40 Disc 2 and love WDYK and CGOOTR and Carousel. But, ngl, DA has totally obliterated Disc 2. I did not see that coming. The CD is literally at the back of a cupboard.

Anyway, I will shut up. I'm really not trying to persuade you, honest!

You're right. In all honesty, there is not a single person on this planet that I am convinced could survive 30% of my dirty thoughts. 100% would be like a nuclear blast to North America. I need to keep this shit to myself πŸ˜‚
It would be like a disaster movie with all the scientists scrambling to understand what in the hell just happened, presidential briefings, blanked out tv screens, conspiracy theories raging online ...

It would be awesome!
 

staywild23

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This is exactly my point. I was on about this way back. Being on the board def reduces my Michaeling. Now, that's not to trash the board. It's great and, indeed, essential. Without the board I wouldn't have known about GOAL. Or the Stories in the Room thing - which hasn't happened yet but it's coming. I wouldn't have seen 3 million beautiful, exquisite gold leotard photos that I have NEVER seen in the media. So, yeah, the board is awesome. BUT ... it does cut into the Michaeling time. I'm getting better at balancing the two. Finally, after god knows how long.
I actually thought about messaging you several times and telling you about all this Michaeling because I knew you'd get what I mean about how the board leads to less Michaeling. But I was too busy Michaeling to talk about Michaeling lol.

You see that Michaeling sesh you just described? Sounds perfect to me.
I mean, it has been perfect. But it's also the reason I'm grading until the end of time. What a torment. But it's worth it.


She really is, people. Totally reasonable, lol.
what a blessed liar you are!

Yeah, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to listen to it. I do try to limit my comments about it to the DA thread. It is just so incredibly all - consuming for me so that is quite hard, trying to be low-key about it. I am SO content with it - even just the 'in my head' version and it's so fulfilling and means so much to me and I've only listened to it 5 times in, what? 4 weeks? 5 weeks?

I am super grateful for T40 Disc 2 and love WDYK and CGOOTR and Carousel. But, ngl, DA has totally obliterated Disc 2. I did not see that coming. The CD is literally at the back of a cupboard.

Anyway, I will shut up. I'm really not trying to persuade you, honest!
Oh, I know you aren't. And I cannot be persuaded, anyway! :) I am glad it is so wonderful though. I'm not surprised in the slightest, but it's lovely to know just the same.

It would be like a disaster movie with all the scientists scrambling to understand what in the hell just happened, presidential briefings, blanked out tv screens, conspiracy theories raging online ...
I love the idea of a presidential briefing about my perverse mind! Honestly, it is a problem of global proportions lol .
 

zinniabooklover

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I have not heard this interview before!! His voice is so soft and sweet. I'm in love!!

@zinniabooklover is there a better thread for this? I can't find the one I was looking for. I am no archivist lol
OK, posted it over on that 'Any and All Interviews' thread. Tagged you even though it never works, lol.

This is gorgeous. I'm still in Lisa Marie mode and deeply immersed in her lyrics but this was a wonderful interlude. His laughter at approx 1m - 1m 5s!!!!!

I'm dead on the floor, as you would say. :D
 

staywild23

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OK, posted it over on that 'Any and All Interviews' thread. Tagged you even though it never works, lol.
It did!! finally! πŸ˜‚

This is gorgeous. I'm still in Lisa Marie mode and deeply immersed in her lyrics
I don't know her music at all. But I did hear her song "Just a Dream" which is so clearly about Michael and it broke my heart.

but this was a wonderful interlude. His laughter at approx 1m - 1m 5s!!!!!

I'm dead on the floor, as you would say. :D
GOD. I understand. I feel like I've been dead for centuries πŸ˜‚
 

zinniabooklover

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It did!! finally! πŸ˜‚
Well, I'll be ...

... as James Brown sings, lol.

I don't know her music at all. But I did hear her song "Just a Dream" which is so clearly about Michael and it broke my heart.
Before last week, I only knew two songs - which I thought were pretty good - and had listened to 2 or 3 others which I was less keen on, intended to revisit, never did.

She is really interesting. I never paid her much attention. I assumed she had a lot going for her or why else would Michael be into her? But, you know, celebrities and all that. I just can't summon up the interest. I had no idea there was all this depth to her.

I don't rate her *really* highly as a singer bc I don't think she quite got fully into her groove. She needed more time to develop. Plus she had a weird career bc she started at the wrong end. It's not her fault. She was never going to be allowed to develop at a natural pace and, in fact, she did really well to control the situation and do it her way as much as she did. I'm so impressed. The girl had b#lls! But her 2nd or 3rd gig was in front of 65,000 people, I believe. That's not helpful.

Anyway, all of this makes me feel even more sad about her life never mind her death. She never really got the music thing properly off the ground. Obviously, 3 albums is awesome and she got some great reviews but her career didn't go quite far enough. She clearly had talent, she clearly had a lot more to say. She does good lyrics. I just wish she could have put out a couple more albums or even just one more. She didn't have an easy life, though.

All of that said, I do feel ambivalent about all of this. I can see how the music industry would have been completely toxic for her in every possible way. I don't think it would have been good for her. But, otoh, she really had something. There was a lot more for her to do with her voice and especially her songwriting and lyrics. She was a proper artist, imo. She said in an interview that she had boxes of songs hanging around. Some of them were probably early songs and maybe not so good but some of them might be worth hearing. I wonder if we ever will.

GOD. I understand. I feel like I've been dead for centuries πŸ˜‚
It was his laughter that finished me off, lol.
 

staywild23

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Before last week, I only knew two songs - which I thought were pretty good - and had listened to 2 or 3 others which I was less keen on, intended to revisit, never did.
Yeah, I actually forgot she had a music career. But once I saw some of the photos and album covers I remembered because I think I was in high school when they came out. I remember some of her songs being fairly popular!

She is really interesting. I never paid her much attention. I assumed she had a lot going for her or why else would Michael be into her? But, you know, celebrities and all that. I just can't summon up the interest. I had no idea there was all this depth to her.

Yes, all of this. I have an interest in pop culture, but not celebrity culture. My interest (eh hem, obsession) with Michael is one of a kind. Nevertheless, I relate to what you're saying here.

I don't rate her *really* highly as a singer bc I don't think she quite got fully into her groove. She needed more time to develop. Plus she had a weird career bc she started at the wrong end. It's not her fault. She was never going to be allowed to develop at a natural pace and, in fact, she did really well to control the situation and do it her way as much as she did. I'm so impressed. The girl had b#lls! But her 2nd or 3rd gig was in front of 65,000 people, I believe. That's not helpful.
This is so true. I often think about the incredible pressure and burden on children of mega stars. They are inevitably compared to their parents and rarely, if ever, live up to their parents' abilities or influence. I think Paris has the same burden with Michael as her dad, so it helps she is in a total different lane genre wise. But yeah, for Lisa, any interest in music would be viewed with such limitations. It didn't help that she married Michael. God, I can't imagine the challenge and pressure and attention on artistry. Artistry should start out from a pure place. It is meant to be messy, ugly, directionless at times. It is meant to evolve in the shadows. But you are never allowed that when there is a spotlight from the beginning. One thing that infuriates me is that there were, apparently, people claiming she married Michael for a leg up in music.... umm... as if she needed that? C'mon. Be serious.

Anyway, all of this makes me feel even more sad about her life never mind her death. She never really got the music thing properly off the ground. Obviously, 3 albums is awesome and she got some great reviews but her career didn't go quite far enough. She clearly had talent, she clearly had a lot more to say. She does good lyrics. I just wish she could have put out a couple more albums or even just one more. She didn't have an easy life, though.

All of that said, I do feel ambivalent about all of this. I can see how the music industry would have been completely toxic for her in every possible way. I don't think it would have been good for her. But, otoh, she really had something. There was a lot more for her to do with her voice and especially her songwriting and lyrics. She was a proper artist, imo.
No doubt, she had an extremely hard life. The combo of fame and trauma is an ugly one. I also hate that she is best known as she relates to two very famous men. It makes me ache for her as an individual. It makes me wonder who she would have been without all of that. We will never know and that's part of the tragedy. Trying to find understanding in a life filled with pain and so many limitations.

It was his laughter that finished me off, lol.
Me too! His laughter is like medicine. I don't know how to describe how it makes me feel. He has such a profound purity to him. I am in love with him, while also deeply wanting to befriend him, while also feeling like he is another version of me. It's strange. But yes, his sweet voice and sweet laughter is beautiful 😍
 

zinniabooklover

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One thing that infuriates me is that there were, apparently, people claiming she married Michael for a leg up in music.... umm... as if she needed that? C'mon. Be serious.
I don't know how to respond to this. Otoh, I want to roll around screaming with laughter until the walls fall down, lol.

Otoh, I am just SO πŸ€” Seriously, wth?

The combo of fame and trauma is an ugly one.
It's the pits.

I also hate that she is best known as she relates to two very famous men. It makes me ache for her as an individual.
I just loathe this so much. It always happens. They do it to Courtney Love, they do it to ... oh, you know what, I can't even ...

It makes me wonder who she would have been without all of that. We will never know and that's part of the tragedy. Trying to find understanding in a life filled with pain and so many limitations.
Perhaps I am too naive but I don't believe it's impossible to allow someone to be themselves in spite of the famous people they are associated with. On @wendijane 's Our thread for Lisa, I posted an LMP interview that she did with Larry King. It's on YT in 8 little segments. It's a good interview but you have to wait until the last 2 - 2.5 mins of Part 7 - Part 7, fgs! - before you get any really interesting stuff about her music. He asked her a really good question and they had a good discussion. But far too short. The bulk of the interview time should have been devoted to this and then allowing the conversation to develop quite naturally.

Artistry should start out from a pure place. It is meant to be messy, ugly, directionless at times.
This. So much this.

It is meant to evolve in the shadows.
This 1000x.

Me too! His laughter is like medicine. I don't know how to describe how it makes me feel. He has such a profound purity to him. I am in love with him, while also deeply wanting to befriend him, while also feeling like he is another version of me. It's strange. But yes, his sweet voice and sweet laughter is beautiful 😍
omg!

omg, omg, omg!!!! OMG!

I think this also!
 

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I don't know how to respond to this. Otoh, I want to roll around screaming with laughter until the walls fall down, lol.
Otoh, I am just SO πŸ€” Seriously, wth?
LOL right??? Diane Sawyer asked about this, or it came up or something, in her interview with them. So annoying.

I just loathe this so much. It always happens. They do it to Courtney Love, they do it to ... oh, you know what, I can't even ...
I hear you. You are right. Moving on lol.

Perhaps I am too naive but I don't believe it's impossible to allow someone to be themselves in spite of the famous people they are associated with.
I agree with you completely. It shouldn't be this way. But with the media it so often is.

On @wendijane 's Our thread for Lisa, I posted an LMP interview that she did with Larry King. It's on YT in 8 little segments. It's a good interview but you have to wait until the last 2 - 2.5 mins of Part 7 - Part 7, fgs! - before you get any really interesting stuff about her music. He asked her a really good question and they had a good discussion. But far too short. The bulk of the interview time should have been devoted to this and then allowing the conversation to develop quite naturally.
Yes! great pieces of the interview, but frustrating it was so minimized. I mean, in a way, Michael experienced the same thing when everything became about the controversies, his appearance, etc. Things that were outside of him. Things that were created by the outside world and had nothing to do with his artistry. Unfortunately this happens to so many people. It is shameful to look back on.

omg!

omg, omg, omg!!!! OMG!

I think this also!
I think, if I'm being honest, this is at the core of my deep love for Michael. He is such a kindred spirit. I feel him so deeply in my soul. His beauty and my mammoth level of attraction to him, not to mention his ridiculous genius (which is obviously more important), are huge contributors to my love for him. But deep in my heart, I just feel so emotionally similar to him. It's uncanny and a little frightening sometimes lol.

But, of course you feel the same... this doesn't surprise me at all :)
 

zinniabooklover

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LOL right??? Diane Sawyer asked about this, or it came up or something, in her interview with them. So annoying.
oh, Diane - freakin' - Sawyer! Gah!

I think, if I'm being honest, this is at the core of my deep love for Michael. He is such a kindred spirit. I feel him so deeply in my soul. His beauty and my mammoth level of attraction to him, not to mention his ridiculous genius (which is obviously more important), are huge contributors to my love for him. But deep in my heart, I just feel so emotionally similar to him. It's uncanny and a little frightening sometimes lol.
This is resonating madly. This is spot on.

But, of course you feel the same... this doesn't surprise me at all :)
Fair point.

But my head is still spinning, lol.
 

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This is exactly my point. I was on about this way back. Being on the board def reduces my Michaeling. Now, that's not to trash the board. It's great and, indeed, essential. Without the board I wouldn't have known about GOAL. Or the Stories in the Room thing - which hasn't happened yet but it's coming. I wouldn't have seen 3 million beautiful, exquisite gold leotard photos that I have NEVER seen in the media. So, yeah, the board is awesome. BUT ... it does cut into the Michaeling time. I'm getting better at balancing the two. Finally, after god knows how long.
My reply is extremely late, but honestly? I agree with you and @staywild23 about the Michaeling. Surprisingly enough to some perhaps, I haven't been "Michaeling" properly for a while now. I have some suspicions why... And it's not because I love him any less!! But I won't go into details here.

Honestly I should just try to go back to plain Michaeling again, because I do miss it. πŸ€”
 

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does cut into the Michaeling time. I'm getting better at balancing the two. Finally, after god knows how long.
Why would you not consider being on the forum part of Michaeling? I never thought about it that way πŸ€”. My Michaeling is often exclusively on the forum. Maybe I am just taking benefit from all the sifting through media that everyone else does and only consuming filtered information πŸ€”
 

zinniabooklover

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My reply is extremely late, but honestly? I agree with you and @staywild23 about the Michaeling. Surprisingly enough to some perhaps, I haven't been "Michaeling" properly for a while now. I have some suspicions why... And it's not because I love him any less!!
I find it so interesting. The board is a fine, fine resource and it does count as Michaeling, imo. It definitely counts. But it's not the same. There is something special and different and exquisite about the 'proper' sort of Michaeling that I do miss if I do too much MJJC and not enough of my own Michaeling.

I'm trying - and failing, lol - to work out how I could write that little paragraph without so many uses of the word 'Michaeling'. :D

Honestly I should just try to go back to plain Michaeling again, because I do miss it. πŸ€”
Whenever I get the balance right it feels so much better. It's gone a bit skewiff lately bc I've been deeply immersed in Lisa Marie and the shock of her early death. Ngl, I'm not *distraught* by this bc I hadn't ever paid much attention to her and didn't know until a few years ago that she was actually a musician. I didn't realise how interesting (and depressing) her story was. There was a lot of depth to the woman that I was unaware of. So I've been busy with that and it's sort of wonderful - she's so interesting and some of her music is really, really good - and also distressing and frustrating.

But I definitely prefer 'plain Michaeling', as you put. That's a good way to describe it - 'plain'. Simple. Focused. Intense.
 
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zinniabooklover

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Why would you not consider being on the forum part of Michaeling? I never thought about it that way πŸ€”. My Michaeling is often exclusively on the forum. Maybe I am just taking benefit from all the sifting through media that everyone else does and only consuming filtered information πŸ€”
No, it is. I think I just made that point. I literally just posted a comment. I can't explain this. I need to send out an urgent call to @staywild23. I basically need the woman to do my thinking for me, lol. She explains stuff SO much better than I do.

MJJC is absolutely Michaeling. But it feels different. And I do prefer my own Michaeling. And I'm going to stop there bc I can feel one of my epic 'word tangles' looming. For the sake of everyone's sanity it's best if I cease and desist from trying to explain myself further.
 

zinniabooklover

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My reply is extremely late, but honestly? I agree with you and @staywild23 about the Michaeling. Surprisingly enough to some perhaps, I haven't been "Michaeling" properly for a while now. I have some suspicions why... And it's not because I love him any less!! But I won't go into details here.

Honestly I should just try to go back to plain Michaeling again, because I do miss it. πŸ€”
Final point.

I really love the ebb and flow of the whole 'Michaeling' thing. I love the fact that it's not static, it feels complicated, it feels multi-layered. The intensity changes - OK, maybe not for sw23 but for me it does, lol. The form it takes obviously changes. I do love all of that. It is sort of a reflection of the complexity and mystery and fascination of Michael, iyswim, that my engagement with him can be so different and go through so many phases at different times.

If that makes sense.
 
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Hiker

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Hmm, so what is 'proper Michaeling' ? Now I feel like I am missing out on the experience. So you go in Internet and search for things related to Michael? Facebook/Twitter? I guess that's how your guys find the wonderful new pics etc. Watch Michael related YT videos?

I think I used to do that pre-forum days. But now I am just here, sometimes on YT, and rarely on FB.
 

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Hmm, so what is 'proper Michaeling' ? Now I feel like I am missing out on the experience. So you go in Internet and search for things related to Michael? Facebook/Twitter? I guess that's how your guys find the wonderful new pics etc. Watch Michael related YT videos?

I think I used to do that pre-forum days. But now I am just here, sometimes on YT, and rarely on FB.
Well maybe "proper" isn't the right term, honestly... It's just that for myself, enjoying things alone tends to feel "safer", and I haven't done that in a long time with Michael (though to be fair, I did want some friends, lol). Even just listening to his music has been a while, even though my love has not decreased. But not everyone goes the same way about this.
 

zinniabooklover

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Well maybe "proper" isn't the right term, honestly..
It really isn't which is why I put it in inverted commas. sw23 and I have had a conversation or two about this so at least I know I'm not the only one who thinks along these lines. But trying to explain what I mean? Goodness me, I am really crap at that, lol.

I'm not saying that there is a right or wrong way to spend time with Michael. Whatever you do is the right thing for you. I don't even know if I can pinpoint the difference between my Michaeling and MJJC. I haven't even tried to figure it out. I've been on MJJC for less than a year which is no time at all. I've been into Michael since day dot of J5 so I don't even know how to compare those two things.

. It's just that for myself, enjoying things alone tends to feel "safer",
I don't know if it's the 'safer' aspect for me or just what I'm used to. I'm not a natural 'online' person so maybe that's it.

Hmm, so what is 'proper Michaeling' ? Now I feel like I am missing out on the experience.
I don't think you are, though. Your 'Michaeling' involves lots of DWT and HWT which I cannot do. In fact, I don't even do a great deal of BWT 1987 or Triumph, tbh. Not compared to how much time I spend listening to music, for example. I still haven't watched an entire show all the way through (apart from Live in Mexico, 1975) whereas you can look at a photo or a gif and know *exactly* which show it's from and which song.

So you go in Internet and search for things related to Michael?
I've done that in the past but I don't think that qualifies as 'Michaeling' for me. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm just terribly old-school about all of this. I wouldn't be without the web but that feels like something different to Michaeling. Maybe bc I grew up just listening to music bc that was all we had so listening to his music feels the most natural to me and the most fulfilling, the most exciting, just perfect.

Naturally, all of this only applies to my world. Searching for stuff online, for example, I totally get that as 'Michaeling' for someone else. Just recently I was online searching for Cyndi Lauper stuff and YT suddenly offered me a audio clip of Michael talking about Stevie Wonder. Made no sense but, of course, I was thrilled. The clip is one of the best I've heard so I'm not knocking the web. Just yesterday sw23 found another audio clip of Michael. Absolutely gorgeous.

Facebook/Twitter?
Not really. I sometimes pick up stuff from Twitter for the Chart Watch thread although even there I can feel myself pulling away from it. I'm not on Twitter, I just dip in, grab something and go.

I guess that's how your guys find the wonderful new pics etc.
I definitely find more photos online than I used to. I do like that, ngl.

Watch Michael related YT videos?
Not as much as I used to, weirdly.

I think I used to do that pre-forum days. But now I am just here, sometimes on YT, and rarely on FB.
I really think it's about listening to his music. There's a quality of connection that I don't get from any other activity. Maybe it's really as simple as that. And I prefer to listen to my CD's bc the quality is better so that's probably the entire explanation right there.

Final point - I'm sure I'm contradicting myself in this post bc I do that. What can I say? I am inconsistent, lol. I do find all of this stuff quite difficult to think about or understand.
 
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staywild23

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Oh boy! So much to add to this conversation. I'm going to try not to be ridiculous, but that's often the goal and we see how well that goes lol.

I want to start first by saying there is absolutely no right or wrong way to "Michael" (what a verb). I think it's all about doing what makes us feel good, fulfilled, and nurtured in the process of enjoying Michael as an artist, performer, human being, (fantasy πŸ˜‰ )...It is highly personal and unique to each person. Which I know others have said above, but I feel the need to reiterate it before I get into my feelings.

Surprisingly enough to some perhaps, I haven't been "Michaeling" properly for a while now. I have some suspicions why... And it's not because I love him any less!! But I won't go into details here.

Honestly I should just try to go back to plain Michaeling again, because I do miss it. πŸ€”
Why would you not consider being on the forum part of Michaeling? I never thought about it that way πŸ€”. My Michaeling is often exclusively on the forum.

Ok, so for me I don't consider being on MJJC Michaeling at all. This is only something I came to realize in the fall and now that I have realized it, I can't return to thinking any other way about it. It's probably the main reason I spend less time on here.

The forum, for me, is a kind of social media that centers around Michael. I learn a lot, I love it, and I get joy from it. But it's a very social experience. Whether you are actively interacting with people, or just lurking, you are constantly consuming other people's views of Michael, his music, their relationship to him, etc. It's no longer just about you (a fan, follower, kindred experience, etc) and Michael. You are participating in this global landscape of fandom. It's kind of like if you are taking a walk through nature with a group of people vs. taking one alone. With the group, you have a great time talking, connecting, experiencing each others company, in addition to the beautiful weather and scenery. But when you are alone, you can sink into yourself and into the world around you and really feel its beauty penetrate you in a different way. Your mind can wander to new places, you can reflect, and even become a more present, sometimes better, version of yourself even just for a few minutes.

This, to me, is one of the differences. I have more metaphors coming, so buckle up lol.

Also, I will say that a lot of this shift happened for me around Thriller 40. I also felt fairly dissatisfied for a few months and felt that my Michaeling was imbalanced with too much time on the forum. However, it really gelled for me when T40 was released. The constant negativity and some people even being offended by the desire for positivity really gutted me. When T40 came out, I stayed up waiting for it to release so I could stream it immediately. I put on headphones and went in a separate room of my house so I could be alone, and I just listened in the darkness. And my God. What an incredible experience. I loved every moment of it. I can still recall the exact feelings I had when I heard each song for the first time. So to feel this way and try to share it and then see people immediately shit all over my feelings, that really cemented for me that Michaeling is a personal and individual experience and trying to do it in a group just does not work for my personality.

Final point.

I really love the ebb and flow of the whole 'Michaeling' thing. I love the fact that it's not static, it feels complicated, it feels multi-layered. The intensity changes - OK, maybe not for sw23 but for me it does, lol.
This is correct. My intensity never changes, it's just a matter of how public I am with it.

My intensity is constant and exhausting πŸ˜‚

No, it is. I think I just made that point. I literally just posted a comment. I can't explain this. I need to send out an urgent call to @staywild23. I basically need the woman to do my thinking for me, lol. She explains stuff SO much better than I do.
What a terrifying thought (for you) lol

Facebook/Twitter? I guess that's how your guys find the wonderful new pics etc. Watch Michael related YT videos?

I think I used to do that pre-forum days. But now I am just here, sometimes on YT, and rarely on FB.
Well maybe "proper" isn't the right term, honestly... It's just that for myself, enjoying things alone tends to feel "safer", and I haven't done that in a long time with Michael (though to be fair, I did want some friends, lol). Even just listening to his music has been a while, even though my love has not decreased.
I don't know if it's the 'safer' aspect for me or just what I'm used to. I'm not a natural 'online' person so maybe that's it.

I think maybe I should just explain what I consider Michaeling.

For me, Michaeling is NOT related to being on social media at all (Twitter, FB groups, Reddit) though I do participate in all of those things at varying levels of depth. I also do not search for things about Michael on the internet almost at all because I don't trust most sources when it comes to him, though there are a few exceptions. I also don't tend to seek out pictures intentionally, which is one of the reasons I don't post many photos of him. Although the biggest reason (and I know @zinniabooklover gets this, because we've discussed it) is that sometimes I feel too much from a photo to post it. My feelings are too intense, so I just keep it to myself. I don't even mean intense in the 'sw23' tradition, either πŸ˜‚ I just mean emotional, or connected, or something. That part is hard for me to explain. But it feels private somehow.

For me, Michaeling is all about feeling my emotional/spiritual connection to him as a human being, and feeling most alive within myself as it relates to him. That happens primarily through listening to his music. I listen to Michael every day, often off and on throughout the day. Sometimes I will only listen to a song or two. But most days I listen to him quite a lot. If I'm super busy or something and I go a couple of days without listening to him, I miss him a lot. I've never experienced with an artist what I experience with him. Take a song like "Get on the Floor" which is my favorite from Off the Wall. This is a song that is literally just about dancing and having a good time. But for me, it feels so deep. I can't explain it. It emanates this radiant joy for life. His voice, the music. It's wild because in the past my primary connection to music was through lyrics with significant depth (Dylan) but with Michael, my connection feels emotionally and spiritually transcendent because of his voice. It's also just f'n fun lol. Anyway, I only use the example of GOTF because it's a random 'good time' kind of song and it affects me so deeply. So when you consider the broad range of Michael's music, from childhood to the posthumous stuff, I feel I can experience every range of emotion at the drop of a hat by listening to him. I can sob in my kitchen over "Speechless" and the feeling of being transported to heaven for 4 minutes and then I can dance around a sing to "Petals" on repeat six times in a row and feel like a little kid. And THAT for me is the ultimate Michaeling. Experiencing the magnitude of my own emotional range through connecting to his music.

However, second to his music is watching him. This includes watching him perform and his short films, of course, but it also includes (quite significantly) watching footage of him visiting orphanages, or going to award shows, or just casual interactions, appearances, etc. Just him as a human being. That is a very important part of Michaeling for me. I love watching his interviews (I've probably watched the Ebony Jet one at least 30 times and the Oprah one at least 15?). I love watching every appearance he made. I posted this somewhere else, but in the early winter I watched the entirety of the 1984 AMAs and Grammys because I wanted to experience every aspect of him at those events. I wanted to see every shot of him in the audience, hear every joke or reference made to him (there are a lot), and immerse myself in the atmosphere of it. This might sound insane to people, but I am obsessed with cultural context and since I wasn't alive back then, I don't have any. This is the closest I can get to understanding it. I might also be crazy too lol. The point is, watching him in some form or another is VERY important to me. I feel his aura through the screen. I feel like I know him. He inspires me.

I would add a couple of things to this:

Michaeling for me also includes drawing him, or producing art that is inspired by him. Right now I'm gearing up to start a series of animal drawings. I want to draw all of these animals connected to him in some way. Idk why. I just feel the desire to. But I also love drawing portraits of him. It's very intimate and I feel very connected when I do that. It also includes staring at a lot of photos of him, which is a huge plus haha.

It also includes learning about him, privately. Meaning, I love reading about him, and listening to podcasts about him (The Case for Innocence Podcast is a current obsession, along with back episodes of the MJCast). But I have to pace myself with all of this stuff because it sometimes is too much for me, especially the darker parts of his life. But I find I am much happier and feel more connected when I do this without other people's commentary.

It also includes my own creative drive, spiritual journey, sexuality, and community service. Michael has inspired me in all of those arenas so sometimes when I'm feeding one, like when I volunteer every weekend, I feel connected to him in some way. Again, maybe I sound insane? lol

But the point is, for me, Michaeling is very multi-faceted. When I was on the forum A LOT, I just didn't have time for the majority of what I mentioned above. I would sometimes spend hours on the forum chatting with people and I'd enjoy it, but I'd feel kind of empty after because I didn't listen to Michael at all that day, or for a couple days, or something.

None of this is meant to knock the forum at all, whatsoever. This is just me sharing my own unique relationship to Michael and my experience trying to understand it.


I don't think you are, though. Your 'Michaeling' involves lots of DWT and HWT which I cannot do. In fact, I don't even do a great deal of BWT 1987 or Triumph, tbh. Not compared to how much time I spend listening to music, for example. I still haven't watched an entire show all the way through (apart from Live in Mexico, 1975) whereas you can look at a photo or a gif and know *exactly* which show it's from and which song.
The only shows I've watched completely, straight through, are those I've seen at watch parties. After the watch parties, I will rewatch those same shows over and over. But shows that are new to me? No. Way too intense lol. I still have only managed to watch ONE performance from Brisbane because I literally want to light myself on fire when I watch it just to cope with my feelings πŸ˜‚

I've done that in the past but I don't think that qualifies as 'Michaeling' for me. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm just terribly old-school about all of this. I wouldn't be without the web but that feels like something different to Michaeling. Maybe bc I grew up just listening to music bc that was all we had so listening to his music feels the most natural to me and the most fulfilling, the most exciting, just perfect.
I feel all of this. Even though I didn't grow up with Michael and I DID grow up with the internet, I relate to everything you said.

Naturally, all of this only applies to my world. Searching for stuff online, for example, I totally get that as 'Michaeling' for someone else. Just recently I was online searching for Cyndi Lauper stuff and YT suddenly offered me a audio clip of Michael talking about Stevie Wonder. Made no sense but, of course, I was thrilled. The clip is one of the best I've heard so I'm not knocking the web. Just yesterday sw23 found another audio clip of Michael. Absolutely gorgeous.
Yes! I am so grateful for these little gems I find via Twitter. But the sacrifice is sometimes my time, energy, and emotional state lol. So when I find those I share them, but I otherwise am trying to avoid it.

I really think it's about listening to his music. There's a quality of connection that I don't get from any other activity. Maybe it's really as simple as that.
Yes! Big part of it :)

Final point - I'm sure I'm contradicting myself in this post bc I do that. What can I say? I am inconsistent, lol. I do find all of this stuff quite difficult to think about or understand.
Oh same. I speak in a lot of absolutes when I'm feeling intensely lol.


PHEW... I am sorry all! This was way longer than I meant for it to be. But what can I say?

"All I can be is who I am, whoever that is" -- Dylan 😊
 

staywild23

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You would think with how huge my post was above I would have nothing left to say. Guess again! πŸ˜‚

The other comparison I wanted to make was that sometimes being on the forum vs. experiencing Michael in my own way feels like reading about traveling to a place vs. actually being in that place in real time. It's the difference between looking at photos of a beautiful destination on Google images, versus standing there experiencing the wind and the rain of it.

Idk if that makes sense or contributes anything, but it's what I have.

Finally, I just want to reiterate that I think this whole concept of what counts as Michaeling is TRULY a uniquely personal experience. I am a highly social person, but I also cherish my inner world tremendously. And I am extremely private, believe it or not. Especially when I love something, or someone deeply, or have experienced something deeply. So with me being who I am, Michaeling can't be something that takes place on a forum. But for different people and their own unique personalities, I can see how it does just as much for them as my version of Michaeling does for me!

Nevertheless, all of this makes me feel crazy so Im going to stop lol. Thank you all.
 

DangerousGal91

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@staywild23 I relate to a lot of what you said! I guess where I differ slightly is that I love sharing my interests with other people; it's just that I have an unfortunate tendency to let other people's negative opinions affect me way too much. This isn't even related to Michael alone... That's what I meant with "safer"; I don't like negativity and conflict, and it often causes me to feel guilty. It shouldn't be this way, but well, it is. I don't want to tell people what they can and can't feel, it's my own responsibility 100%, but it's difficult. For example I still haven't listened to Thriller 40 yet because I'm legitimately scared I might end up enjoying it ("what the hell, that's silly! Just stop caring!!" I KNOW, I AM A SILLY WOMAN, OKAY?? 🀣). I think next time something drops I'm just gonna stay off the forums.

But that is also why I love the picture threads so much, since they let me remember that there's still love out there. Negativity is super rare there, instead we just talk about curls, lip bites, eyes... (cue staywild dying on the floor, lol). But for instance, while I'm a music lover in general, I've found I dislike most in-depth discussion of it (casual convos don't count) since I tend to listen to music differently than most others who consider themselves "avid music lovers" do. I'm not an audiophile, for one, I can look past the way something is mastered, I listen mostly on Spotify since I lack money and space for CD's, I actually very rarely buy music at all... I find composition, lyrics, emotion, and musical skill much more interesting to talk about, despite the fact I do actually have knowledge about audio engineering; it's just such a boring conversation topic! I don't enjoy technical convos at all and I literally work in IT, lol (I prefer "doing" over "talking" in this instance, I guess). I can handle only so many "HQ CD" (or whatever it's called; can't bring myself to care) talk. πŸ’€

Anyway, I'm digressing pretty hard... Point is that I love sharing my interests, but too often I sadly find out I don't have a lot in common with many other people, and I'm used to that by now but that doesn't make it fun. And I let myself get affected by what other people say way too much, lol. I should stop that, but like I said, it's so hard!! 😩

LONG POST IS LONG and very off-topic, ahaha.... Please move along.

ETA: The talk about the estate also gets really old, simply because I do not care about the gosh darn estate!! I care about MICHAEL, I only want Michael.
 

zinniabooklover

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@staywild23 I relate to a lot of what you said! I guess where I differ slightly is that I love sharing my interests with other people; it's just that I have an unfortunate tendency to let other people's negative opinions affect me way too much. This isn't even related to Michael alone... That's what I meant with "safer"; I don't like negativity and conflict, and it often causes me to feel guilty. It shouldn't be this way, but well, it is. I don't want to tell people what they can and can't feel, it's my own responsibility 100%, but it's difficult. For example I still haven't listened to Thriller 40 yet because I'm legitimately scared I might end up enjoying it ("what the hell, that's silly! Just stop caring!!" I KNOW, I AM A SILLY WOMAN, OKAY?? 🀣). I think next time something drops I'm just gonna stay off the forums.

But that is also why I love the picture threads so much, since they let me remember that there's still love out there. Negativity is super rare there, instead we just talk about curls, lip bites, eyes... (cue staywild dying on the floor, lol). But for instance, while I'm a music lover in general, I've found I dislike most in-depth discussion of it (casual convos don't count) since I tend to listen to music differently than most others who consider themselves "avid music lovers" do. I'm not an audiophile, for one, I can look past the way something is mastered, I listen mostly on Spotify since I lack money and space for CD's, I actually very rarely buy music at all... I find composition, lyrics, emotion, and musical skill much more interesting to talk about, despite the fact I do actually have knowledge about audio engineering; it's just such a boring conversation topic! I don't enjoy technical convos at all and I literally work in IT, lol (I prefer "doing" over "talking" in this instance, I guess). I can handle only so many "HQ CD" (or whatever it's called; can't bring myself to care) talk. πŸ’€

Anyway, I'm digressing pretty hard... Point is that I love sharing my interests, but too often I sadly find out I don't have a lot in common with many other people, and I'm used to that by now but that doesn't make it fun. And I let myself get affected by what other people say way too much, lol. I should stop that, but like I said, it's so hard!! 😩

LONG POST IS LONG and very off-topic, ahaha.... Please move along.

ETA: The talk about the estate also gets really old, simply because I do not care about the gosh darn estate!! I care about MICHAEL, I only want Michael.
Excellent points being made. I relate to so much of this.
 

staywild23

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@staywild23 I relate to a lot of what you said! I guess where I differ slightly is that I love sharing my interests with other people; it's just that I have an unfortunate tendency to let other people's negative opinions affect me way too much.
Oh, I am very much the same! I am very protective of my interests for that reason. I love to share things when I assess that someone is trustworthy, but I've misread that many times in my life, in spite of not trusting many people in general. Point is, I feel this.

This isn't even related to Michael alone... That's what I meant with "safer"; I don't like negativity and conflict, and it often causes me to feel guilty. It shouldn't be this way, but well, it is. I don't want to tell people what they can and can't feel, it's my own responsibility 100%, but it's difficult. For example I still haven't listened to Thriller 40 yet because I'm legitimately scared I might end up enjoying it ("what the hell, that's silly! Just stop caring!!" I KNOW, I AM A SILLY WOMAN, OKAY?? 🀣). I think next time something drops I'm just gonna stay off the forums.
I'm so curious about this... I can understand the fear of not enjoying something, but why do you fear enjoying it? Will all the negativity about it before you listened to it retroactively hurt if you end up loving it? Because I can understand that. But I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

For what it's worth, I am a Thriller 40 megafan lol. You will never be alone on this forum if you end up liking it!

But that is also why I love the picture threads so much, since they let me remember that there's still love out there. Negativity is super rare there, instead we just talk about curls, lip bites, eyes... (cue staywild dying on the floor, lol).
YESSSS!!!! Photo threads are where it's at!! All of us just reveling in Michael and loving him and wanting to die lol. It's the best πŸ˜‚

Also, re: what I said above, I trust all of you ladies. I feel safe with you all. And it tends to just be us in there!

But for instance, while I'm a music lover in general, I've found I dislike most in-depth discussion of it (casual convos don't count) since I tend to listen to music differently than most others who consider themselves "avid music lovers" do. I'm not an audiophile, for one, I can look past the way something is mastered, I listen mostly on Spotify since I lack money and space for CD's, I actually very rarely buy music at all... I find composition, lyrics, emotion, and musical skill much more interesting to talk about, despite the fact I do actually have knowledge about audio engineering; it's just such a boring conversation topic!
Girl I feel this hard lol. I am not an audiophile AT ALL. For example, people complain about the audio quality of the Behind the Mask demo (adorably called 'Mike's mix' on T40) and I legitimately don't even notice it. I mean, yes, I hear it, but idgaf. It doesn't in any way detract from my enjoyment of it. Like, not even for a second.

And the part I bolded above? YES! I base my feelings about music on how it makes me feel in my heart. I am sure there is a technical element to this, but I don't have the language for that. That's why my posts are flowery and verbose and emotional. That's how I experience music. That's how I experience all art. I'm highly educated in literature and writing in general and still my best way of describing why I like something is that it made me want to tear off my limbs and hollow my entire being with love. So sometimes having the language to describe shit doesn't make describing it technically any more satisfying.

Anyway, I'm digressing pretty hard... Point is that I love sharing my interests, but too often I sadly find out I don't have a lot in common with many other people, and I'm used to that by now but that doesn't make it fun. And I let myself get affected by what other people say way too much, lol. I should stop that, but like I said, it's so hard!! 😩
I really understand this. I think this is at the root of how I have become a private person. I find that 90% of the time I feel things more intensely and more deeply than anyone else around me. I've always been this way and perhaps you have too! My sister told me recently she is in awe of my level of passion, because she's never felt as passionate about anything as I do about everything lol. My husband and I are an incredible fit because he is chill as hell and levels me out. He grounds me. But my God, he does NOT understand my passion either. I love so deeply I feel it in my fucking marrow. So it is VERY hard for me when people are "critical" (I say this in jest, since I don't mind critique...what truly offends me is people who are unnecessarily judgmental, authoritative, or cruel) about Michael, or his music. I love to the deepest depth.

I will say, however, my relationship to the board has shifted many times in the year that I've been on it. When I first got into Michael I HAD to talk about him because I was blowing up inside. I was desperate to talk about him and my enthusiastic posts about him in those early months is what connected me to @zinniabooklover @MacMandy90 and @Hiker, and a few others, because they all got it (and I would now include you in that too, btw). So I am grateful for this forum eternally because I've met awesome people who GET IT.

LONG POST IS LONG and very off-topic, ahaha.... Please move along.
I loved it. plus it still wasn't as long as mine. not that I'm bragging. God knows everyone loves my excessive posts πŸ™„ πŸ˜›

ETA: The talk about the estate also gets really old, simply because I do not care about the gosh darn estate!! I care about MICHAEL, I only want Michael.
YES. Also, as a personality trait, I feed off of positivity and actively reject negativity. But I've never been known for my realism πŸ˜‚
 
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