Latest on MJJC

Michael Jackson’s Voice Explained: Video Analysis

Themidwestcowboy

Proud Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
6,687
Points
113
I think this video was really interesting and informative. I think you should watch this one



Something that really stuck out to me, and this is something I have long believed to have somewhat of a kernel of truth, is that Michael often seemed to push his voice beyond its natural capabilities which made it very difficult for him to replicate certain high notes in the original keys of his song live. What do you think about this assessment?

Edit:

After watching the entire thing, I can say that there are a lot of inconsistencies, errors and straight up lies or misinformation presented to serve the narrative of the video.
 
Last edited:
MJ was a perfectionist, so what you were hearing on his albums was always "the best" of the multiple takes at choruses and verses - so absolutely it would be difficult to replicate that live. For instance, the powerful parts of Earth Song were all recorded on a day where MJ didn't record anything else so that he could go all out.

Additionally you have songs like You Are Not Alone where notes were artificially lengthened.

Singing voice aside I have to say MJ's speaking voice at the This Is It announcement is my absolute favorite.
 
SeriousEffect. said:
I have to say MJ's speaking voice at the This Is It announcement is my absolute favorite.
Click to expand...
His voice was the same during Dangerous Era. I mean, druing Thriller Era it was higher, during Invincible - lower. But TII announcement voice - is his basic Dangerous voice
 
SeriousEffect. said:
MJ was a perfectionist, so what you were hearing on his albums was always "the best" of the multiple takes at choruses and verses - so absolutely it would be difficult to replicate that live. For instance, the powerful parts of Earth Song were all recorded on a day where MJ didn't record anything else so that he could go all out.

Additionally you have songs like You Are Not Alone where notes were artificially lengthened.

Singing voice aside I have to say MJ's speaking voice at the This Is It announcement is my absolute favorite.
Click to expand...
Are you sure about that?
 
@mjfanatic777 said:
My favorite speaking voice is Thriller era. It's so cute and sweet!
Click to expand...
Yessss. off the wall era, thriller era, jacksons era... 100x more soft spoken. pure ecstacy. i'm such a simp for those three eras in more ways than one. mostly because (especially Jacksons era) is much closer to my age. but i'm in love with his voice. especially when imagining him sweet talking to me kdhjfkahfjs AAAA i can't take it! i make myself blush!!
 
Agonum said:
Are you sure about that?
Click to expand...
Well I wasn't there, but it sounds like it - and it's not an issue if it was in my opinion.

Again, MJ was a perfectionist, if there's a specific sound he wanted that required some engineering so be it. Being an artist is more important than being a vocalist in my opinion.
 
I enjoyed this video… it seemed to be made with love. I just wish it covered his last years, as Michael had a lot more time to explore and heal into his mature voice.

Edit: reevaluating my feelings, I agree @Themidwestcowboy in that it serves a somewhat contrived narrative. It seems to the general and dedicated listener that a lot of what is attributed to vocal damage is stylistic choice. Who really knows?

I still enjoyed how it was presented, with historical voices of vocal professionals.
 
Last edited:
Left this comment on their video to correct the inaccuracies/falsehoods (likely done on purpose to support their conclusion), add missing context and suggest alternative possibilities but it looks like they don’t like to have their narrative/points challenged as the comment got removed.

 
I watched this for the first time last night and while there are parts that I’m iffy about, (the nose part in particular kinda bugged me.) I do believe the creator made this with good intentions, especially given their takeaway at the end of the video. I appreciate the editing and the presentation. Those were probably the highlights of the video for me.

At the very least, it’s better than the original version of this video where they just dismissed the latter half of his career as him “not singing.”
 
Last edited:
Sensual visionary said:
I enjoyed this video… it seemed to be made with love. I just wish it covered his last years, as Michael had a lot more time to explore and heal into his mature voice.

Edit: reevaluating my feelings, I agree @Themidwestcowboy in that it serves a somewhat contrived narrative. It seems to the general and dedicated listener that a lot of what is attributed to vocal damage is stylistic choice. Who really knows?

I still enjoyed how it was presented, with historical voices of vocal professionals.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. All though it comes from a place of love, in my estimation, he tries hard to fit a contrived narrative and even went so far to say that MJ’s vibrato is a sign of a damaged voice, or something like that, which is preposterous. He was also very selective in choosing audio clips which fitted his narrative but disregarding something from the exact same source that disproves his claims.
 
8th wonder said:
Left this comment on their video to correct the inaccuracies/falsehoods (likely done on purpose to support their conclusion), add missing context and suggest alternative possibilities but it looks like they don’t like to have their narrative/points challenged as the comment got removed.

Click to expand...
Can you upload this again? I missed it
 
I watched this as well and it was really well done. It really showcased how his voice suddenly changed from the powerful 1987 vocals live in Japan , Australia to suddenlyming hoarse for the 1988 live BAD tour in full force , he sung live Dirty Diana and sometimes parts of Twymf and he sounded horrible , hence the lip synching in that tour for those songs , not DD nor Another Part of Me , but it was clear something had happened between such a short space of time. Yet on Human Nature he always sounded immaculate. I have always said that the She's Out of my Life performances on the Dangerous tour were impeccable but the WBSS performances in both Bad and Dangerous tours were rushed and too fast for him he could not keep up , the telling lies and rubbing shoulders part got relegated to an easier key especially in the Dangerous tour but there were signs of that in the later stages of the Bad Tour also , he clearly had sung too much , and what a lot of people forget is how much singing that man did behind the scene so it is bound to take its toll .
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Can you upload this again? I missed it
Click to expand...
Not sure what happened to the picture but this was the comment

“Really enjoyed how you explored and analysed MJ's voice throughout his life but just wanted to make a few points:

1. I don't think MJ's lack of dictation on some songs came from him struggling to sing high instead it was because he cared more about how he conveyed the song. MJ said that pronouncing the words soo precisely takes away from the feeling of the song so he sacrificed dictation for emotion.

2. Think MJ chose which songs he'd perform live based on popularity and how well they worked in a live performance rather than harmonies. As for Thriller that wasn't performed in 1984 as MJ didn't want to upset the Jehovah witnesses. Also starting with the Bad tour the harmonies would just come from the playback if MJ wasn't happy with them e.g. I Just Can't Stop Loving You.

3. Don't think MJ had nodules during the Victory tour but for some reason his voice in Toronto specifically was quite raspy but it's not an accurate representation of the whole tour. His vocals in earlier shows like East Rutherford or Kansas were smooth & at times sounded better than the Triumph tour e.g. in Lovely One, The Love You Save, She's Out Of My Life & Things I Do For You.

4. With Bad his voice still seemed connected when you listen to how he climbs up the scale to hit those D5s on The Way You Make Me Feel and Dirty Diana; there are more examples of his voice still being connected in the 90s such as Gone Too Soon, They Don't Care About Us and Wanna Be Startin Somethin in Rotterdam, Rome or Monza (July 6th) and even the 2000s such as Heartbreaker.

On Bad his voice did become more raspy which could be a sign of vocal damage but it might've been intentional to fit the style of the music given even on the song History he could still belt high notes without much of a rasp.

5. In terms of Bad having less brightness I think it's more to do with ageing (same thing happened from 1979 to 1982) given he was still singing between the release of Thriller & Bad; just 1 seminote (Eb5 to D5) isn't a big change tho and like Thriller there are still many notes where he belts into the 5th octave. The change from Bad to Dangerous is also probably due to ageing (as well as how demanding the Bad tour was); although interestingly on HIStory he belts into the 5th octave a lot more than he did on Dangerous.

6. At the start of the Bad tour e.g. Tokyo MJ's vocals were as high as they were on the Victory tour (he even sounded better than some Victory tour shows on some songs) but for most of 1988 his voice is much deeper which was probably due to him focusing more on dancing and being sick multiple times yet still doing 3 shows in a row multiple times which didn't allow his voice to heal. Also The Way You Make Me Feel was sung live during the first American leg of the Bad tour e.g. New York City.

7. The Dangerous tour was also mostly live (around 65% live in 1992 and around 50% live in 1993). The reason for the playback was that MJ wanted the vocals to sound exactly like the record. One factor which could've made this harder is lupus which reduced his lung capacity making singing and dancing simultaneously even more difficult.

8. The reason some people think MJ didn't sound great on History is because the most popular show from that tour is where MJ was sick. However when he wasn't sick there were times where he sounded even better than the Bad or Dangerous tour e.g. Beat It in Cologne, Kuala Lumpur or Brunei.

The History tour mic feed vocals used here aren't an accurate representation of how good he sounded on the tour given he was sick, was unable to hear himself singing over the playback meaning he had no sense of pitch and wasn't trying too hard given these vocals were never meant to be made public.

9. The point about MJ not having a nose stems from tabloid sensationalism as his autopsy proved his nose hadn't collapsed.”
 
I found the 2 points about MJ signing on nasal sounds and his vibrato interesting; not sure if he picked the best examples to showcase them tho (aside from the warm up).
 
8th wonder said:
The History tour mic feed vocals used here aren't an accurate representation of how good he sounded on the tour given he was sick, was unable to hear himself singing over the playback meaning he had no sense of pitch and wasn't trying too hard given these vocals were never meant to be made public.
Click to expand...
And this is why these vocals leaking was a dangerous thing. People who don’t know the context will come to wrong conclusions. Anyways, I agree with everything you have written, in fact I was going to pretty much write the same arguments.
 
8th wonder said:
Not sure what happened to the picture but this was the comment

“Really enjoyed how you explored and analysed MJ's voice throughout his life but just wanted to make a few points:

1. I don't think MJ's lack of dictation on some songs came from him struggling to sing high instead it was because he cared more about how he conveyed the song. MJ said that pronouncing the words soo precisely takes away from the feeling of the song so he sacrificed dictation for emotion.

2. Think MJ chose which songs he'd perform live based on popularity and how well they worked in a live performance rather than harmonies. As for Thriller that wasn't performed in 1984 as MJ didn't want to upset the Jehovah witnesses. Also starting with the Bad tour the harmonies would just come from the playback if MJ wasn't happy with them e.g. I Just Can't Stop Loving You.

3. Don't think MJ had nodules during the Victory tour but for some reason his voice in Toronto specifically was quite raspy but it's not an accurate representation of the whole tour. His vocals in earlier shows like East Rutherford or Kansas were smooth & at times sounded better than the Triumph tour e.g. in Lovely One, The Love You Save, She's Out Of My Life & Things I Do For You.

4. With Bad his voice still seemed connected when you listen to how he climbs up the scale to hit those D5s on The Way You Make Me Feel and Dirty Diana; there are more examples of his voice still being connected in the 90s such as Gone Too Soon, They Don't Care About Us and Wanna Be Startin Somethin in Rotterdam, Rome or Monza (July 6th) and even the 2000s such as Heartbreaker.

On Bad his voice did become more raspy which could be a sign of vocal damage but it might've been intentional to fit the style of the music given even on the song History he could still belt high notes without much of a rasp.

5. In terms of Bad having less brightness I think it's more to do with ageing (same thing happened from 1979 to 1982) given he was still singing between the release of Thriller & Bad; just 1 seminote (Eb5 to D5) isn't a big change tho and like Thriller there are still many notes where he belts into the 5th octave. The change from Bad to Dangerous is also probably due to ageing (as well as how demanding the Bad tour was); although interestingly on HIStory he belts into the 5th octave a lot more than he did on Dangerous.

6. At the start of the Bad tour e.g. Tokyo MJ's vocals were as high as they were on the Victory tour (he even sounded better than some Victory tour shows on some songs) but for most of 1988 his voice is much deeper which was probably due to him focusing more on dancing and being sick multiple times yet still doing 3 shows in a row multiple times which didn't allow his voice to heal. Also The Way You Make Me Feel was sung live during the first American leg of the Bad tour e.g. New York City.

7. The Dangerous tour was also mostly live (around 65% live in 1992 and around 50% live in 1993). The reason for the playback was that MJ wanted the vocals to sound exactly like the record. One factor which could've made this harder is lupus which reduced his lung capacity making singing and dancing simultaneously even more difficult.

8. The reason some people think MJ didn't sound great on History is because the most popular show from that tour is where MJ was sick. However when he wasn't sick there were times where he sounded even better than the Bad or Dangerous tour e.g. Beat It in Cologne, Kuala Lumpur or Brunei.

The History tour mic feed vocals used here aren't an accurate representation of how good he sounded on the tour given he was sick, was unable to hear himself singing over the playback meaning he had no sense of pitch and wasn't trying too hard given these vocals were never meant to be made public.

9. The point about MJ not having a nose stems from tabloid sensationalism as his autopsy proved his nose hadn't collapsed.”
Click to expand...
Beautifully written and I agree with everything.
 
8th wonder said:
I found the 2 points about MJ signing on nasal sounds and his vibrato interesting; not sure if he picked the best examples to showcase them tho (aside from the warm up).
Click to expand...
Regarding the vibrato, Michael had a perfect, even, controlled vibrato. The style of vibrato he showcased on the video is a more “traditional classical” type of vibrato that just isn’t suitable for pop/dance music imo. In the same warm up audio he used there is a part where Michael does that classical style of vibrato but Seth corrects him and tells him to keep his vibrato “spinning”. Freddie Mercury is a great example of an uneven type of vibrato, fluctuating in pitch, volume and speed.

It’s also amusing that he used that clip of Stevie because when you listen to 90% of his music he does not employ that style of vibrato at all.
 
8th wonder said:
Not sure what happened to the picture but this was the comment

“Really enjoyed how you explored and analysed MJ's voice throughout his life but just wanted to make a few points:

1. I don't think MJ's lack of dictation on some songs came from him struggling to sing high instead it was because he cared more about how he conveyed the song. MJ said that pronouncing the words soo precisely takes away from the feeling of the song so he sacrificed dictation for emotion.

2. Think MJ chose which songs he'd perform live based on popularity and how well they worked in a live performance rather than harmonies. As for Thriller that wasn't performed in 1984 as MJ didn't want to upset the Jehovah witnesses. Also starting with the Bad tour the harmonies would just come from the playback if MJ wasn't happy with them e.g. I Just Can't Stop Loving You.

3. Don't think MJ had nodules during the Victory tour but for some reason his voice in Toronto specifically was quite raspy but it's not an accurate representation of the whole tour. His vocals in earlier shows like East Rutherford or Kansas were smooth & at times sounded better than the Triumph tour e.g. in Lovely One, The Love You Save, She's Out Of My Life & Things I Do For You.

4. With Bad his voice still seemed connected when you listen to how he climbs up the scale to hit those D5s on The Way You Make Me Feel and Dirty Diana; there are more examples of his voice still being connected in the 90s such as Gone Too Soon, They Don't Care About Us and Wanna Be Startin Somethin in Rotterdam, Rome or Monza (July 6th) and even the 2000s such as Heartbreaker.

On Bad his voice did become more raspy which could be a sign of vocal damage but it might've been intentional to fit the style of the music given even on the song History he could still belt high notes without much of a rasp.

5. In terms of Bad having less brightness I think it's more to do with ageing (same thing happened from 1979 to 1982) given he was still singing between the release of Thriller & Bad; just 1 seminote (Eb5 to D5) isn't a big change tho and like Thriller there are still many notes where he belts into the 5th octave. The change from Bad to Dangerous is also probably due to ageing (as well as how demanding the Bad tour was); although interestingly on HIStory he belts into the 5th octave a lot more than he did on Dangerous.

6. At the start of the Bad tour e.g. Tokyo MJ's vocals were as high as they were on the Victory tour (he even sounded better than some Victory tour shows on some songs) but for most of 1988 his voice is much deeper which was probably due to him focusing more on dancing and being sick multiple times yet still doing 3 shows in a row multiple times which didn't allow his voice to heal. Also The Way You Make Me Feel was sung live during the first American leg of the Bad tour e.g. New York City.

7. The Dangerous tour was also mostly live (around 65% live in 1992 and around 50% live in 1993). The reason for the playback was that MJ wanted the vocals to sound exactly like the record. One factor which could've made this harder is lupus which reduced his lung capacity making singing and dancing simultaneously even more difficult.

8. The reason some people think MJ didn't sound great on History is because the most popular show from that tour is where MJ was sick. However when he wasn't sick there were times where he sounded even better than the Bad or Dangerous tour e.g. Beat It in Cologne, Kuala Lumpur or Brunei.

The History tour mic feed vocals used here aren't an accurate representation of how good he sounded on the tour given he was sick, was unable to hear himself singing over the playback meaning he had no sense of pitch and wasn't trying too hard given these vocals were never meant to be made public.

9. The point about MJ not having a nose stems from tabloid sensationalism as his autopsy proved his nose hadn't collapsed.”
Click to expand...
He also said something along the lines of “it’s agreed among the fans that his vocals problems started on the Victory Tour” Lol, when has that ever been agreed upon? The victory tour contains his best vocal performances ever if you ask me. Yes sure his voice was a bit raspy in Toronto but you have to take into consideration the extreme cold weather over there haha. There are things like that and other factors that come into play. Still though, there are dozen upon dozens of clips from the victory tour which showcases his stellar vocal performance but I guess all those other concerts didn’t fit the narrative he was trying to tell.

This is a classic case of having a hypothesis and trying to find anything that support this said hypothesis instead of actually trying to find out if your hypothesis is true or not.
 
Last edited:
Now I need to go through MJ's music and listen to his vibrato to see whether or not he had a pulse vibrato like the video suggested (same with the point about him singing on nasal sounds).

Lol the Victory is literally regarded as one of his best tours vocally and the vocals were nearly as good as Destiny and Triumph. A bit of raspiness doesn't instantly mean he had nodules. As a whole the video is full of cherry picked clips to fit whatever point is being made.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Still though, there are dozen upon dozens of clips from the victory tour which showcases his stellar vocal performance but I guess all those other concerts didn’t fit the narrative he was trying to tell.
Click to expand...
Such as Kansas, in which his voice sounds much smoother than e.g. Los Angeles during the Triumph Tour.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top