Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Randy 'NOI'

You mean 'The Nation of Islam'? Who supplied Michael's security? Whose leader Michael met and talked with? That 'Nation of Islam'?

You're going to tell me you know better than Michael are you?

hmlf_mj.jpg
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Deano you seem to be intent as usual on changing the focus of the debate to completely irrelevant stuff about the Jacksons.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

GiveItUp123.

Your quote;

"Finally, I'm sure the family will make their intentions to Sony and the Estate very clear since the Jacksons form part of the Estate!"

You might want to check that little fact, as this is the main part of the problem as I see it - they are not!

Perhaps if Mj had left everything in their hands, we would have seen even more of a 'circus' than we have with them so far.

Can you imagine Pappa Joe, Jermaine, Randy 'NOI', and La Toya in charge!!??

On second thoughts, best not contemplate about that!

And Michael Jackson is singing on the Cascio tracks because of this? Thanks.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You mean 'The Nation of Islam'? Who supplied Michael's security? Whose leader Michael met and talked with? That 'Nation of Islam'?

You're going to tell me you know better than Michael are you?

hmlf_mj.jpg


My belief is that these people assisted his downfall, tried to suck him dry of his money, kept him away from people who could have helped him, and did nothing to help his decent into addiction and eventual death.

But that is just my belief.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Deano you seem to be intent as usual on changing the focus of the debate to completely irrelevant stuff about the Jacksons.


How is it "irrelevant", if some people use their 'backing' for the boycott as 'proof' that the Cascios are fake??
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

My belief is that these people assisted his downfall, tried to suck him dry of his money, kept him away from people who could have helped him, and did nothing to help his decent into addiction and eventual death.

But that is just my belief.

Interesting theory. Nothing to do with bogus charges levelled at him, DA's abusing their position and acting illegally in an effort to prosecute him, record heads sabotaging his every move and a media desperate to destroy him?

But yeah, you believe that if you want to.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

And Michael Jackson is singing on the Cascio tracks because of this? Thanks.


You might want to read post 572 for your answer to this.

But yes, they are unhappy that they are not in charge/getting a big enough 'cut', and their limited business intelligence leads them to actions that one might consider reckless and stupid. They think if they pressure Sony and the Estate enough, then they might get more of an input in future and, more inportantly, a 'bigger slice of the pie'.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

[youtube]QSLov7zYrSc[/youtube]

Enough said, but if you want more....

1. Evidence (or lack thereof)

There is NO evidence that Michael sang the Cascio songs. None. If it was OBVIOUSLY him on the songs, this wouldn't matter. Since it's not obviously him, more evidence is required. Yet there is none. When faced with this accusation, what would you do? I'd provide the evidence. ESPECIALLY when given the opportunity to do so on a TV show watched by millions of people, like Oprah. Yet they failed to do so. No video footage of the songs being recorded, or even footage of Michael just standing in their studio. No outtake vocals. No adlibs. No lyric sheets or any notes written with Michael's handwriting. Teddy Riley's excuse is that the vocals are heavily processed. If this is the case, where are the original unprocessed vocals? Tarryl asked for them and was told "the computer broke", and "the hard drive was destroyed". Does this sound likely? If this were Michael on the songs, there would be NUMEROUS ways to prove it. Again, they have failed to provide a single piece of evidence.

2. Motives for lying

Either Eddie Cascio and Teddy Riley are lying, or 3T, Darkchild and Cory Rooney are. There's no other alternative. Eddie's motive is clear. So is Riley's. MONEY. They were paid a significant amount for these songs. Teddy in particular is in need of it, having had no significant production work in recent history, and filing for bankruptcy a few years ago, and having being forced to sell his house and many of his belongings to pay tax bills to avoid being sent to prison. This is all well documented. His studio also "burnt down" which was clearly an insurance scam, as it was about be foreclosed on due to unpaid bills. Eddie's other motive is fame and opportunity. What's the likelihood that a completely unknown producer with no prior credits would have the opportunity to work with the likes of Orianthi and 50 Cent (who both appear on "Monster"), or share production credits with the award winning Tricky Stewart, who is responsible for a string of hits including Rihanna's "Umbrella"? The answer is, slim to none.

Now, let's contrast that with the possibility that 3T are lying. What do they have to gain from lying? The answer is... NOTHING. It doesn't make any difference to their lives. They only seek to protect their beloved Uncle's legacy. They have nothing to gain. Their Uncle was the hero and their idol. They actually HAVE been in the studio with him, as he co-produced their "Brotherhood" album and sang on two songs. They know what their uncle's vocals sound like, and they are aware of all the evidence that WOULD be available from a REAL MJ recording session, because they've shared recording sessions with him. Darkchild and Cory Rooney also have nothing to gain from lying.

3. The alleged meeting and forensic report

Howard Weitzman claims a forensic report was done. These reports have not been publically released. Why not? If a report was indeed done, why should we trust his word on the outcome of it? It would be easy to release these reports if they are real. The fact that Weitzman says a report was done means nothing. If I sat her and told you all the sky was neon spotted pink and yellow, what would you do? Believe me? Or ask for proof? If something is questionable, you provide proof. Something both the Cascios and Howard Weitzman have failed to do.

So, moving on to the alleged meeting. Weitzman says that Dr Freeze, Bruce Swedien, Teddy Riley et al all met and agreed the vocals were Michael. However, we have not heard from ANY of these people directly, bar Riley. So again, we're expected to take Weitzman's word without ANY proof that this was the case. Furthermore - Cory Rooney was AT THAT MEETING and he says that they did NOT all agree that the vocals were authentic.

Objective Analysis

The vocal tone, pronunciation, and strength of these Cascio vocals are not consistent with ANYTHING else ever recorded by Michael Jackson in over 40 years. They are not even consistent with other songs recorded in the SAME timeframe or afterwards, like "Best Of Joy" or "Hold My Hand". There isn't a single authentic, original Michael Jackson vocal trademark in any of these songs. All of these songs come from the same source, as the other 7 songs on the album are quite obviously Michael.

There is no excuse for why the vocals don't sound like Michael. I personally have recorded in everything from the most basic budget home studio, to the biggest recording studios in the world, you can compare tracks I've recorded in different settings and it's always CLEARLY the same person. So that whole "these songs were recorded in a budget studio" excuse does NOT wash. It's invalid. Also invalid is the attempt to pass them off as "demos". We've heard scores of real demos by Michael, and it's always obviously him.

There is no evidence at all to support a claim of it being Michael. NONE. The people responsible for these songs have a clear motive to lie. The people close to Michael who have publically stated it's NOT him on those songs have NO reason to lie. Finally - I'm a professional vocalist and producer, signed to a major label, and I make my living using my ears. I know the capabilities and extent of every vocal processing plugin you could possibly think of. None of them could make the most identifiable voice, the most famous voice that has ever existed, sound like an entirely different person. Some of you guys can sit behind your Fruity Loops and call yourself producers or artists, but I have the credits to back it up, with releases that have sold hundreds of thousands of records and songs in Hollywood movies and million+ selling video games from the likes of EA Sports. What I'm saying by bringing this up is that, if you want to come at me with that weak ass "budget studio" or "vocal processing" argument, the fact is that I likely know a GREAT DEAL more than you on these subjects.

I've listened to Michael damn near every day since 1989. Released, unreleased, acapella, remix, rare, interview, speech, whatever you can think of, I've heard all of it. My PERSONAL opinion is that it is quite blatantly NOT Michael Jackson singing these Cascio songs.

However, ignoring my personal opinion - if you look at all the points I've presented above - hell, you could present those points in a court of law - the ONLY POSSIBLE unbiased, objective conclusion you can possibly come to, taking all evidence and analysis to hand - again - is that it's NOT him singing these songs.

Peace.

Amazing post.

I lost my faith and serenIty in thIs forum trying other members understand that
it's Jason Malacihi and not Mj.

Specially when some mods thinks it's Mj.

Your answer gave strenghts to continue.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Interesting theory. Nothing to do with bogus charges levelled at him, DA's abusing their position and acting illegally in an effort to prosecute him, record heads sabotaging his every move and a media desperate to destroy him?

But yeah, you believe that if you want to.


There can be more than one enemy surely?

Some enemies are more upfront, others, like the NOI 'earn their money' a different way.

I saw it with Ali, and I have sen it with other huge black stars like MJ. The NOI didn;t lift a finger to help Michael with his real problems, they just wanted what they could get from him, the same as poor old Ali.

Just my opinion of course.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You said I was talking about something that had nothing to do with the thread, I showed you why it did, you should at least apologise, surely?

Anyway, back to your question (which I have answered many times before), and some others that might help you;

Do I think MJ is on the Cascio tracks? Yes.
Do I think MJ was involved in writing/producing/creating the Cascio tracks? Yes.
How much do I think he was invloved in the Cascio tracks? Enough.
Do I think JM is on the Cascio tracks? No.
Do I think there are other singers on the Cascio tracks with MJ? Yes.
Do I care that the songs had to be 'finished' by others due to MJ's tragic death? No.
Do I think that boycotting MJ products and having a negative impact on his future success is a 'sane' way of reacting to the fact he is no longer with us and can not finish projects himself? NO!

That should cover most things I think.

I can't see why I need to apologise since I didn't write or imply anything demeaning to you.

All I asked is why do you think it's Michael singing on the tracks instead of carrying on about family members.

At least you tried this time but you didn't still answer the question of, why?

Why do you think it's Michael Jackson?

Just for the record, I bought Michael the day it was released.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Does anybody know when the courtcase; "Jackson Family & 'Fans' vs The Cascio Brothers/Sony" starts by the way?

It should be interesting to see all this 'evidence' the family/'fans' have. I bet Sony are quaking in their boots.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Guys please some fans here are Muslims including me ,don't mix things between fake tracks and religion.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Does anybody know when the courtcase; "Jackson Family & 'Fans' vs The Cascio Brothers/Sony" starts by the way?

It should be interesting to see all this 'evidence' the family/'fans' have. I bet Sony are quaking in their boots.

I'm still waiting for the court case 'Jason Malachi' vs 'Hacker'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Millions of Michael Jackson fans'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Randy Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Tarryl Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Cory Rooney'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Latoya Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Katherine Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Prince Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Paris Jackson'.

That will be interesting. Can't wait to see Sony provide their 'evidence' in a court of law.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Does anybody know when the courtcase; "Jackson Family & 'Fans' vs The Cascio Brothers/Sony" starts by the way?

It should be interesting to see all this 'evidence' the family/'fans' have. I bet Sony are quaking in their boots.

I believe the hearing for that particular court case was set at the same meeting in 1984 when plans for the 30th anniversary special were underway (insert sarcasm).
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I believe the hearing for that particular court case was set at the same meeting in 1984 when plans for the 30th anniversary special were underway (insert sarcasm).

Very good. LOL!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I'm still waiting for the court case 'Jason Malachi' vs 'Hacker'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Millions of Michael Jackson fans'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Randy Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Tarryl Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Cory Rooney'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Latoya Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Katherine Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Prince Jackson'. And 'Sony Music' vs 'Paris Jackson'.

That will be interesting. Can't wait to see Sony provide their 'evidence' in a court of law.


Sony music won't have to take the cranks to court - the same way that MJ didn't have to take that nutter Nona Paris Lola Ankhesenamun Jackson to court.

You see, it's the nutters that stupidly fabricate things in their minds, and then waste the courts time before being laughed out.

I would love to see than boycott fans and the Jacksons try it, I really would.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Well that's it then, really, isn't it?


You say "I can hear it's not him"

I say "I can feel him in the songs"

Why is your supossed to be ok and mine not?

Again, stop trying to take personal offense at everything I post.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I would like to know more about things that have been going on between :

Family - Joe / Katherine Jackson (/ Howard Mann), Tarryl Jackson - - Estate : 1.Branca - 2.Mc Clayn - - Teddy Riley

Things happening in above "line" and if and how they (possibly) influenced decisions from Estate (Branca >< Mc Clayn)....
and then the twitters from Taryl and Teddy...

Been reading a lot. It still is not cleared up, still things in the dark...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Complete cop out.

It will be if those screaming "FAKE!" don't do something about it.

I rather think they will not put their money where their considerable size mouths are though.

Surely all thses "millions of fans" (as quoted by yourself), along with the family etc., will be able to club together to take these "FRAUDS!" to court?

No?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

It will be if those screaming "FAKE!" don't do something about it.

I rather think they will not put their money where their considerable size mouths are though.

Surely all thses "millions of fans" (as quoted by yourself), along with the family etc., will be able to club together to take these "FRAUDS!" to court?

No?

Oh the truth will come out sooner or later. Absolutely no question.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Finally, I agree with you on that, samhabib, the truth will come out one day. :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

Oh the truth will come out sooner or later. Absolutely no question.


I don't know how old you are, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting around for anything.

This "FAKE!" talk and "We're gonna get Sony" is all cyber hot air from where I'm sitting.

I think there is a phrase that says something like "Sh*t, or get off the pot!"

That puts it succinctly enough for me. Nothing happened about the BODY DOUBLE in 'TII' - apart from a lot of wasted hot air - and nothing will happen here either.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

So, moving on to the alleged meeting. Weitzman says that Dr Freeze, Bruce Swedien, Teddy Riley et al all met and agreed the vocals were Michael. However, we have not heard from ANY of these people directly, bar Riley.

Actually, Greg Philllinganes was one of the people named in the Estate's statement, and he did come out and say the vocals were MJ's. It was in a recent issue of "Vibrations", a French music magazine.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

^ Interesting, kreen! I had been thinking about this a lot lately, the fact that we hadn't really heard from these people Sony supposedly met with.

If anyone could find a quote from that? That'd be amazing! :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

I don't know how old you are, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting around for anything.

You don't need to know how old I am. But Teddy Riley's recent meltdown isn't looking so rosy for your argument. And it's just about to get a whole lot worse.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Cascio Controversy Thread)

You don't need to know how old I am. But Teddy Riley's recent meltdown isn't looking so rosy for your argument. And it's just about to get a whole lot worse.


I thought you didn't believe anything Teddy Riley said, and he couldn't be trusted?

I'm beginning to think you might be the kind of person who only believes in statements that agree with what you think, or interprets them in a way that matches your predisposition - is that where I have been going wrong?

You could have told me this before I wasted my time trying to debate with you! Thanks for nothing. :wink:
 
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