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Michael - The Great Album Debate

I dont think they betrayed Michael. I once heard somewhere that Michael wanted some of his unreleased songs released after death so he could continue providing finacial support for his children so they would be set for life.
 
Well yes, of course, that's a very good idea, but not fake songs.

A song like Best Of Joy or Behind The Mask, those are songs to release that honor his legacy, in my opinion.
 
They did betray Michael for putting these songs out even IF they're Michael. They don't even sound like him! And certainly don't do him any justice. They were basically started from scratch and cut/pasted/massacred, etc...I don't accept that, and I'm damn sure Michael wouldn't either, considering what a perfectionist he was. This is a man who was obsessed with getting everything JUST right, who sweated over every detail...Who was disappointed with his historic Billie Jean performance....If you love and respect Michael, if you've been friends with him for 25 years, you would know this and respect this.
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oh okay. wait for the next albums. based on branca saying that there are only 2 albums worth of finished songs, by the end of the time they stop releasing albums in Michael Jackson's name , this would become a norm. for example looking to tupac's example he had 2-3 good albums and the rest became progressively worse.

We had made this argument on maxjax. this is the reality of the posthumous releases. there will come a time that you'll need to accept that Michael is gone, his perfectionist touch and finishing cannot be on these albums and the producers need to bring these songs to be releasable formats.

It's the reality that will hit you like a ton of bricks.

I forgot who said it (might be Akon) but in an interview I read that posthumous releases shouldn't be evaluated as a release from the artist but more like a "tribute" to the artist. and this has been the problem. every song , every video released has been compared to Michael's work. It should not be evaluated like that but it must been seen as Akon's tribute, Wayne Isham's tribute etc.
 
ivy said:
hmm why?
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I explained it in the rest of the paragraph.

Because I don't agree with the way these tracks are handled doesn't mean I'm having trouble accepting Michael's gone. One has nothing to do with the other.

It's NOT the nature of posthumous releases...Adding a few things here and there to finish a song isn't the same as basically starting the songs from scratch and if it's due to processing, ultimately sucking the life out of his voice. All so that they can issue these songs as a tribute?? I don't think so.

Posthumous releases can be done with care and love. Not Teddy's 'I did the track in 5 hours'...Wow, what respect.

They did BTM, Best of Joy, and all in all, HT justice. Yet, they can't do justice to the 'most complete' Cascio songs? It takes god knows how much processing, cut and pasting, and basically starting from scratch to complete songs that were most complete? How does this make sense?

I don't accept that and never will. There are others who will accept whatever they can get. That's them, not me.
 
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did you follow other people's posthumous careers? honest answer please.
 
^^ Nope. We're talking MJ here, not others. If they treat others' posthumous careers similarily, then I wouldn't accept that either, regardless if I'm a fan or not.

The last line of my last post will explain the same.

Just because it's 'the way it is' or 'the norm' doesn't mean we have to accept it. That much is obvious, lol ..
 
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ivy said:
did you follow other people's posthumous careers? honest answer please.
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Arklove said:
^^ Nope. We're talking MJ here, not others. If they treat others' posthumous careers similarily, then I wouldn't accept that either, regardless if I'm a fan or not.

The last line of my last post will explain the same.
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how can you make a statement of "It's NOT the nature of posthumous releases." when you know not much about such releases?

Tupac - the album they did with Eminem. Eminem was flipping burgers or washing dishes when Tupac died. He wasn't even in the industry and Tupac didn't even know him. Eminem stripped all of Tupac's existing music and did his own thing / music / additions - Reminds you of anyone? Tupac fans hated Eminem's involvement and what he did by a passion but the reality was that by that time they were down to Tupac's old recordings, his album sales were going down and Eminem - the current popular artist- was brought in to make the songs newer and fresher.

Biggie - the duets album oh boy. they had took verses from previous released songs and added other parts sung by other artists. they basically created songs from existing songs. they had so little of Biggie's vocals and again fans were furious. even the biggie's verse on Michael's invincible album was recycled from a his duet with Shaq. Similar duets thing was done to Marvin Gaye as well. You know what when Teddy said Michael didn't finish many songs and that he only recorded verses and there would be a duets album, I was scared. (and I also think that's why they call Cascio songs "complete" as he recorded full leads and back vocals but not perfect or finished)

In short you'll see that this is the reality of the posthumous releases. Of course you might not agree with it and see it as not acceptable but in my opinion it's the reality if the artist hasn't left many finished work.
 
I wouldn't mind if they stripped the music and remade everything and added a duet, as long as it's Michael singing.

On the Cascio songs, it isn't Michael singing, and that's the big difference here.
 
Any problem that Eddie Cascio has in his future career is entirely his own doing. He knowingly used Jason to record 12 fraudulent tracks. He sold them to Sony for a considerable amount of money. He committed the crime of fraud. He exploited the fans grief. He wrote songs for Michael, he did some work with Michael (Thriller 25), but due to Michael's death, he wasn't able to fulfil his dream of producing a proper album. Jason always wanted to be the next Michael, and they both got what they wanted. Doesn't it strike anyone as suspicious that Michael recorded 12 songs: just a nice fit for an album eh? In fact, "a whole albums worth of material" is the wording that Roger Friedman used in his article when he revealed the existence of these songs. He was also the one to break the story about Michael staying at the Cascios in 07. Oddly, he made no mention of these songs back then. In fact, it wasn't until almost a year after Michaels death that we heard about these songs, and just as the huge deal with Sony was on the cards.
 
I would say it's the nature of posthumous releases if they've done to to every single deceased artist...I find that unlikely..You gave me only two examples. I wouldn't say that's enough to say it's the nature of it....

I'm sure they don't do this to every artist, and people are perfectly capable of doing it right and with honour.

Whoever in the music industry thought that was a good way to honour an artist, then they are truly delusional.

It's truly laughable and sad at the same time. I feel sorry for the artists AND the fans.

Anyway, I don't believe it's Michael on the songs, obviously, and that's NOT the nature of posthumous releases...lol...
 
Posthumous careers seem to be dissapointing. I realyl wish Mike was laive to release the albums he was planning on releasing. Even if, If any artist has songs with Mike that are finished why not put them on these Posthumous "tribute" albums? I know Will.i.am has songs....and we know his veiws on what he thinks....but for the fans...can we get a listen? :/
 
Aniram said:
I wouldn't mind if they stripped the music and remade everything and added a duet, as long as it's Michael singing.

On the Cascio songs, it isn't Michael singing, and that's the big difference here.
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Agreed. There is a big difference bewteen using Michael's vocals in a way not originally intended and using an impersonator to decieve people. I don't know how anyone can say Michael sang the leads on Burn 2Nite. Utterly offensive imo.
 
StellaJackson said:
Any problem that Eddie Cascio has in his future career is entirely his own doing.
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did you read "what if you are wrong" part before jumping in to type all of that?

if you are wrong and the songs turned out to be sung by Micheal, what happened to his future career would be on the shoulders of some overzealous people that believed they knew it all.

that's what we called a "damage" and a "lynching" and "not be able to live with myself"..
 
ivy said:
did you read "what if you are wrong" part before jumping in to type all of that?

if you are wrong and the songs turned out to be sung by Micheal, what happened to his future career would be on the shoulders of some overzealous people that believed they knew it all.
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I do not believe I am wrong. I stand by my conviction completely. Now that I've shown you that there is no excuse for you not to listen to Burn 2Nite, have you heard it?
 
As we've said, Eddie damaged his own career by doing what he did to those tracks even IF they're Michael. Some producer; I wouldn't want him producing and tampering with my own tracks if I was an artist.

Who told him that's acceptable? Who told him that's the way to produce? By making the artist sound completely unlike himself? By cutting and pasting grunts, breaths, previous authentic ad libs? By ultimately doing an extremely talented vocalist complete injustice?

He deserves to have a blip in his career for that.

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over...IF the songs are Michael, the result is the same. He shouldn't have done it, and it's like career suicide. He did it to himself.

Ugh, I'm tired of arguing...I need a nap...or a drink :lol:

Hey, we reached page 1,000 :cheers:
 
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Happy Page 1000 to all, and you Arklove :)

Stella, i believe you sound as if your ignorant. Like: Im right attitude.
I dont believe Ivy needs to listen to Burn2Nite. Thats his choosing if he wants to.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
Happy Page 1000 to all, and you Arklove :)

Stella, i believe you sound as if your ignorant. Like: Im right attitude.
I dont believe Ivy needs to listen to Burn2Nite. Thats his choosing if he wants to.
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I think Ivy is a she. I don't care what you think of me. My point is that she is taking part in this debate without being aware of the same evidence as the rest of us. Burn 2Nite is by far the least convincing song and has changed the opinions of several believers.
 
StellaJackson said:
I think Ivy is a she. I don't care what you think of me. My point is that she is taking part in this debate without being aware of the same evidence as the rest of us. Burn 2Nite is by far the least convincing song and has changed the opinions of several believers.
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I said you sound ignorant, that doesnt mean you as a person are. and i understand what you mean about Burn2nite....maybe she will in time, but even if there are doubters out there who havent even heard of Burn2nite i bet. I dont think we need to hear ALL the tracks to determine where we stand in this issue. weather we are right or wrong.
 
StellaJackson said:
I think Ivy is a she. I don't care what you think of me. My point is that she is taking part in this debate without being aware of the same evidence as the rest of us. Burn 2Nite is by far the least convincing song and has changed the opinions of several believers.
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Believe me when I say I'm not the person to jump on to any bandwagon especially after I have seen what happened with Soldier boy. and as a person that knows how Sony is reacting to such leaks (and even more than what you might know) I have no intention of clicking any links regardless of what anyone says.
 
Maybe when we get to page 2000, then this debate can be over and the thread can be closed for good, and we can all just read and reflect.
 
Aniram said:
Maybe when we get to page 2000, then this debate can be over and the thread can be closed for good, and we can all just read and reflect.
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I'm closing it when we come to 1001.



just kidding of course.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
I said you sound ignorant, that doesnt mean you as a person are. and i understand what you mean about Burn2nite....maybe she will in time, but even if there are doubters out there who havent even heard of Burn2nite i bet. I dont think we need to hear ALL the tracks to determine where we stand in this issue. weather we are right or wrong.
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Oh I see what you mean. No problem. I think Burn 2Nite is Jason's worst attempt from what we've heard so far.
 
ivy said:
Believe me when I say I'm not the person to jump on to any bandwagon especially after I have seen what happened with Soldier boy. and as a person that knows how Sony is reacting to such leaks (and even more that what you might know) I have no intention to clicking any links regardless of what anyone says.
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I don't somehow think Sony are going after the hundreds of people who listened to it via youtube.
 
Im looking forward to hearing Water in full....lol im ashamed to admit it. I wanna hear it. lol In fact...i wanna listen to all the Casico songs. Being completely serious here guys cant you tell?
 
StellaJackson said:
I don't somehow think Sony are going after the hundreds of people who listened to it via youtube.
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that's how I listened to soldier boy on youtube. I'm not seeing any youtube for burn 2 nite.

and knowing how previously recording organizations randomly filed lawsuits for people who illegally downloaded mp3 (not even stolen) , I'm not planning on doing that.
 
ivy said:
that's how I listened to soldier boy on youtube. I'm not seeing any youtube for burn 2 nite.

and knowing how previously recording organizations randomly filed lawsuits for people who illegally downloaded mp3 (not even stolen) , I'm not planning on doing that.
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It was reuploaded to youtube the other day. It has probably been taken down again. It is still on several streaming sites so doesn't need ti be diwnloaded at all. Funny how they only go after Cascio stuff. Other material that was stolen at the same time is still freely available. I think it's called damage limitation.
 
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