Michael - The Great Album Debate

[love is magical]

Would this controversy be avoided if Sony told us upfront that these tracks are just barely there guided vocals that are basically unreleasable without major studio editings?

May be we set our expectation too high? We were told that these tracks are the best songs Michael had recorded in the past decade.

 

[StellaJackson]

Edited.

 

[StellaJackson]

Would this controversy be avoided if Sony told us upfront that these tracks are just barely there guided vocals that are basically unreleasable without major studio editings?

May be we set our expectation too high? We were told that these tracks are the best songs Michael had recorded in the past decade.

If Fall in Love and Water are the best then I'd hate to hear the worst. So unconvincing. Fall in Love sounds like some teenager doing bad karaoke. Why they paid money for these poor quality frauds is beyond me. I guess profit trumps artistic integrity.

 

[missred07]

In my opinion, I think it's just a case of them not caring. They didn't care enough to authenticate the 3 songs, after all, the words of Michael's so-called surrogate family should be enough, right? Besides, from what I recall, the fans themselves were demanding for Cascio songs at the time, so they up-and-bought them because of the demand. Even when there was controversy, they still saw it as an opportunity to make a lot of money by marketing it as the last songs Michael recorded. They couldn't be bothered about the minority who were against it, because their real target was the general public who still thought Michael was "in-fashion" at the time.

I see your point. I also guess that they didn't pay enough attention and just buy them. The quality of the recording is just really bad. I know they are saying those were guild demo. However, they should never release produced guide demo. But the controversy is so huge that people can start wonder the authenticate of all the other projects. The sales are not as good as they expected because of the boycott. I think it's quite a stupid move from the estate.

 

[missred07]

but John Branca himself said there are only enough songs for 2 albums. so if that was the goal they would have said they had hundreds of songs lying around. on the contrary people involved keeps saying there aren't that many songs and /or they aren't finished / usable.

Honestly, I think lots of people over exaggerate the number of "finished song". It's quite obvious that probably many of them only have verse here and there. You can knew that in Teddy Riley's interview. You also see that from the Michael Album. They only 2 quite finished songs were probably hold my hand and behind the mask. However, I am quite confused where are all the left out songs from all the previous album??? If there were 5 for each albums, you would have at least 30 almost finished songs. Where are they??? Did MJ take them out and bring them somewhere else out of SONY vault? Really confusing.

 

[StellaJackson]

Honestly, I think lots of people over exaggerate the number of "finished song". It's quite obvious that probably many of them only have verse here and there. You can knew that in Teddy Riley's interview. You also see that from the Michael Album. They only 2 quite finished songs were probably hold my hand and behind the mask. However, I am quite confused where are all the left out songs from all the previous album??? If there were 5 for each albums, you would have at least 30 almost finished songs. Where are they??? Did MJ take them out and bring them somewhere else out of SONY vault? Really confusing.

I can think of several complete songs off the top of my head that have yet to be released. And we know they are complete because they've leaked and "some" fans have them:

Slave To The Rhythm
Blue Gangsta
Do You Know Where Your Children Are
Escape
If You Dont Love Me
I Am A Loser
Place With No Name
People Of The World (solo)
Can't Get Your Weight Off Of Me

 

[Grent]

**Who else here never wants to hear the word "vibrato" again in their entire lives? FORGET about the vibrato. It's either a concidence, an artefact of some clumsy recording/singing/post-production, or just your mind playing tricks on you.

I'm speechless.
How can you talk about a topic not knowing anything about it?

It's like me saying - who else here never wants to hear 'economic crisis' ever again? Why don't we just cancel all debts?

Pure ignorance this is. Do you sing? Do you know somebody personal that sings? Have you ever recorded yourself on a plain tape recorder? Have you ever done post-production? How old are you?

Mind playing tricks? I'll show you the vibrato:

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/crazy
This is the word 'crazy' from BN. See the funny looking tail? That's a massive fast vibrato.

When lengthening/shortening notes with natural vibato, you must by default speed or slow down the vibrato by the very fact that you are changing the note duration. This is most apparent on longer notes and tail-offs. I have found that any more than 10-20% change really starts to sound like an unnatural change in vibrato frequency and I can't use it

So, because the unnatural vibrato is EVERYWHERE, you suggest they shortened the whole vocal - meaning they sped it up. However if the 12 Cascio songs (all of them!!) are the result of speeding up, do you wanna hear Fall in Love at a speed where the vibrato sounds natural? You'll fall asleep. Even Breaking News gets extremely slow:

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/breaking-news-acapella-slower

And still, this ain't MJs vibrato at all. It's got far too much amplitude. And the singer's transition to the vibrato is abrupt and forced. Not anything we ever heard from MJ. It just sounds like Malachi to me.

difference between a guide vocal versus a finished job ?

Tell me exactly why would a guide vocal sound so different sonically? Like a different person? Would you consider MJ singing Smile to his Children in LWMJ on the street guide vocal quality? I do a lot of sound editing. If someone sings off a bit, you can easily adjust. If he sings too low in volume, there are things that need to be fixed, but even if he sang on a busy street and you can barely hear him, that fix will sound crap, but it won't change the voice to that degree. Or the vibrato or the pronounciation. Producers aren't magicians. I know the tools. I use them myself.



PS: Here you got Earth Song with fast vibrato. It's fast alright. But it doesn't sound like this loud, abrupt, forced vibrato we hear at the Cascios.

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/earth-song-almost-one-third

Now don't say, MJs vibrato changed that much during a few months because he was sick, or that it's processing.

If someone finds MJ holding a note straight relatively long and then kicks in the vibrato like we hear at the Cascios (or just abit similar, I'm not picky here), please post. I find only natural, even vibratos.

 

[Pentum]

I'm speechless.
How can you talk about a topic not knowing anything about it?

It's like me saying - who else here never wants to hear 'economic crisis' ever again? Why don't we just cancel all debts?

Pure ignorance this is. Do you sing? Do you know somebody personal that sings? Have you ever recorded yourself on a plain tape recorder? Have you ever done post-production? How old are you?

Mind playing tricks? I'll show you the vibrato:

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/crazy
This is the word 'crazy' from BN. See the funny looking tail? That's a massive fast vibrato.



So, because the unnatural vibrato is EVERYWHERE, you suggest they shortened the whole vocal - meaning they sped it up. However if the 12 Cascio songs (all of them!!) are the result of speeding up, do you wanna hear Fall in Love at a speed where the vibrato sounds natural? You'll fall asleep. Even Breaking News gets extremely slow:

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/breaking-news-acapella-slower

And still, this ain't MJs vibrato at all. It's got far too much amplitude. And the singer's transition to the vibrato is abrupt and forced. Not anything we ever heard from MJ. It just sounds like Malachi to me.


Tell me exactly why would a guide vocal sound so different sonically? Like a different person? Would you consider MJ singing Smile to his Children in LWMJ on the street guide vocal quality? I do a lot of sound editing. If someone sings off a bit, you can easily adjust. If he sings too low in volume, there are things that need to be fixed, but even if he sang on a busy street and you can barely hear him, that fix will sound crap, but it won't change the voice to that degree. Or the vibrato or the pronounciation. Producers aren't magicians. I know the tools. I use them myself.



PS: Here you got Earth Song with fast vibrato. It's fast alright. But it doesn't sound like this loud, abrupt, forced vibrato we hear at the Cascios.

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/earth-song-almost-one-third

Now don't say, MJs vibrato changed that much during a few months because he was sick, or that it's processing.

If someone finds MJ holding a note straight relatively long and then kicks in the vibrato like we hear at the Cascios (or just abit similar, I'm not picky here), please post. I find only natural, even vibratos.

Great post and let me add this fine video just to remind you guys how Jason's vibrato sounds like.

[youtube]7PcTcCJWZHk[/youtube]

 

[ivy]

So, because the unnatural vibrato is EVERYWHERE, you suggest they shortened the whole vocal - meaning they sped it up. However if the 12 Cascio songs (all of them!!) are the result of speeding up, do you wanna hear Fall in Love at a speed where the vibrato sounds natural? You'll fall asleep.

Actually I did not suggest anything. It was a quote from an unrelated discussion in a music forum. It was just to show that melodyne can indeed result in effects on vibrato (as well as timbre, pitch, or amplitude) when duration changes to notes is done and that most professionals would call "unnatural" and "unusable". It's all a matter of "level of change"

And still, this ain't MJs vibrato at all. It's got far too much amplitude. And the singer's transition to the vibrato is abrupt and forced. Not anything we ever heard from MJ. It just sounds like Malachi to me.

Wouldn't you also need to adjust for amplitude, Formant tool as well as the Pitch Transition tool? I don't think just a slow down would give you the natural vibrato.

 

[dam2040]

There is at least a similarity between Jm's Vibrato and the one in KYHU,BN and Monster.. if not the same voice, but you know, each to their own.

 

[Pentum]

http://soundcloud.com/pentummj/gone-too-soon-snippet

Jason Malachi singing Gone Too Soon live (snippet). Sounds awfully like the vocals in Water.

 

[Grent]

http://soundcloud.com/pentummj/gone-too-soon-snippet

Jason Malachi singing Gone Too Soon live (snippet). Sounds awfully like the vocals in Water.

Awsome. You also have the trademark whining at 'fading', which you can hear all over Cascio.

Wouldn't you also need to adjust for amplitude, Formant tool as well as the Pitch Transition tool? I don't think just a slow down would give you the natural vibrato.

Well, you can do a lot with Melodyne. By default however, pitching up vocals quite hard will not mess up the vibrato:
http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/will-you-be-there-octave-up
This soundfile sets the end to the Melodyne excuse by Teddy himself. It was simple a lie.

So Teddy Riley must have messed up the vibrato on purpose. Or it is just someone else singing. On each and every Cascio track. Throughout! Because that fast vibrato is all over the tracks. In the beginning, middle and end of verses, words etc.


You can of course mess with a lot of parameters. Here I tried to soften the Cascio vibrato, but it's really difficult since it's not the pitch variation but the amplitude variation that's so prominent - it's more like a tremolo (hence goat vibrato). And it's not about formants or any other parameter. The amplitude modulation is far more prominent than the frequency modulation.

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/breaking-news-acapella

You can hardly change that in Melodyne. You won't ever see it as a by-product either. It also won't magically appear. It won't in any software. It's the singer.

The vibrato is the singer. And it's not Michael Jackson.

 

[Dorian]

Awsome. You also have the trademark whining at 'fading', which you can hear all over Cascio.



Well, you can do a lot with Melodyne. By default however, pitching up vocals quite hard will not mess up the vibrato:
http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/will-you-be-there-octave-up
This soundfile sets the end to the Melodyne excuse by Teddy himself. It was simple a lie.

So Teddy Riley must have messed up the vibrato on purpose. Or it is just someone else singing. On each and every Cascio track. Throughout! Because that fast vibrato is all over the tracks. In the beginning, middle and end of verses, words etc.


You can of course mess with a lot of parameters. Here I tried to soften the Cascio vibrato, but it's really difficult since it's not the pitch variation but the amplitude variation that's so prominent - it's more like a tremolo (hence goat vibrato). And it's not about formants or any other parameter. The amplitude modulation is far more prominent than the frequency modulation.

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/breaking-news-acapella

You can hardly change that in Melodyne. You won't ever see it as a by-product either. It also won't magically appear. It won't in any software. It's the singer.

The vibrato is the singer. And it's not Michael Jackson.

Maybe the vibrato was screwed up by Eddie?

 

[Grent]

Then still Teddy lied. Because he said it's because he had to move the vocals up.

And why would Eddie destroy a MJ record like that? Putting a fast tremolo effect on all the 12 vocals, but in an extraordinarily sensitive way to affect only the right parts - just as if the singer actually sang that way - and then destroying the originals ...

You mean Teddy wanted to protect Eddie ?
Talking about conspiracy theory...

We didn't go with the Autotuning, we went with the Melodyne 'cause we can actually move the stuff up, which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still getting the true Michael Jackson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7HEdn1Z80

"some of the vibrato sounds a little off"
Yeah, right. 12 Songs. And even when he sings off key in Fall in Love ... the vibrato is still 'a little' off. Hm ...

He's giving me hope. He's giving me a second life in the music industry.

There you have it. There you have his motive.


Celemony should consider suing Riley for slander.

 

[ivy]

Well, you can do a lot with Melodyne. By default however, pitching up vocals quite hard will not mess up the vibrato:
http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/will-you-be-there-octave-up
This soundfile sets the end to the Melodyne excuse by Teddy himself. It was simple a lie.

So Teddy Riley must have messed up the vibrato on purpose. Or it is just someone else singing. On each and every Cascio track. Throughout! Because that fast vibrato is all over the tracks. In the beginning, middle and end of verses, words etc.

I'm confused. First of all what are we talking about: pitch correction or note duration changes - such as speed up?

I'm looking to your soundcloud and for example you get a fast vibrato on the speed up earth song but not " loud, abrupt, forced vibrato" according to your own definition.

You can of course mess with a lot of parameters. Here I tried to soften the Cascio vibrato, but it's really difficult since it's not the pitch variation but the amplitude variation that's so prominent - it's more like a tremolo (hence goat vibrato). And it's not about formants or any other parameter. The amplitude modulation is far more prominent than the frequency modulation.

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/breaking-news-acapella

You can hardly change that in Melodyne. You won't ever see it as a by-product either. It also won't magically appear. It won't in any software. It's the singer.

The vibrato is the singer. And it's not Michael Jackson.

and are you sure the vibrato is the singer and can not be due to the leftover modulation effects if amplitude, timbre, volume and so on?
for example :

"The amplitude gives me the most problems. Even if I can straighten out a bad vibrato, there will still be an oscillating volume left, like a tremolo, very audible and I have problems to make it go away. "

and are you saying that you can't change amplitude in melodyne? I thought they had a tool for it as well.

like I said I'm confused I guess.

 

[Grent]

I'm confused. First of all what are we talking about: pitch correction or note duration changes - such as speed up?

I'm looking to your soundcloud and for example you get a fast vibrato on the speed up earth song but not " loud, abrupt, forced vibrato" according to your own definition.

Well, now I don't follow you . (That's funny, the quoted text I understand. Your original in your post however I don't. I did not mess with the quote though. What is happening? )

But: the Earth song sped up is not Melodyne. It is just sped up, to show that not even a sped up MJ vibrato sounds like the Cascio vibrato (even though the same speed). And I also sped it up, because when Teddy says, the vibrato is 'a little of' because of pitching the vocals up with Melodyne, he probably means it's faster because of Melodyne. Therefore I uploaded the Will You Be There clip to show, that by default Melodyne does hardly touch the vibrato speed.

and are you sure the vibrato is the singer and can not be due to the leftover modulation effects if amplitude, timbre, volume and so on?
for example :

"The amplitude gives me the most problems. Even if I can straighten out a bad vibrato, there will still be an oscillating volume left, like a tremolo, very audible and I have problems to make it go away. "

That's it. This quote says it all. You can't easily get rid of the tremolo that the singer produced. Also vice versa: You can't easily (or like Teddy says, 'We're apologizing for that happening' by mistake) create the tremolo. So you can't create it, at the same time it won't create itself. So the software is not responsible for that. And if you ask me, no other software either.

and are you saying that you can't change amplitude in melodyne? I thought they had a tool for it as well.

like I said I'm confused I guess.

It is possible for every single note. You would need to cut a longer note containing the vibrato into all the ups and downs and then lower the amplitude of the ups to get rid or minimize the tremolo effect, which is part of every vocal vibrato.

 

[Grent]

I'm confused. First of all what are we talking about: pitch correction or note duration changes - such as speed up?

Oh, I think now I get it.
Well, theoretically those two (pitch and note duration) go hand in hand. But software can make you compensate for the one or the other.
If I pitch a vocal up, the frequencies are higher, they 'play' faster. That means, however, that the vocal is shortened. So the software kicks in and compensates for the time. So you got higher frequencies but interpolated fill-ins to compensate for the loss of time. These fill ins, you can imagine, are in between every modulation of an vibrato - so the vibrato, even though higher, stays at the same speed.

So melodyne (usually) = higher pitch, but same speed as original.

Teddy however says, the vibrato is faster because of Melodyne. Which means, the software does not compensate for the shortening and therefore the vibratos are faster - as fast, as we can hear them on the Cascio records. That means, according to Teddy's quote, in order to get faster vibratos, the vocals must have been a) sped up, or b) pitched up without compensation of time and therefore also sped up.


Of course you can also, like my Earth Song example, speed up a song without pitch being touched. This, sort of, cuts out small pieces of the vocal, so that the pitch stays the same, but the speed is faster.


Sorry if you already knew all that and I misunderstood the problem. Not trying to be a smartass here. But maybe it still helps someone to understand.


To summarize: Most of use might agree, the vibratos on the Cascio tracks are faster than usual. What did cause this?

a) the vocals were sped up (either by pitching up without compensation for time, or speeding up with compensation for pitch, or a mixture of both). However, when we slow the vocals down (pitch stays the same) to reach usual MJ vibrato speed, the songs (especially the ballads like KYHU, FIL, R2W, W ...) are way too slow. Nobody would have ever sang those songs that slow. Or we pitch the vocals down (speed stays the same), the songs are way too low. Also a mixture of both does not get us to a reasonably singable tune with normal MJ vibrato speeds.

b) the vibratos are caused by a different singer

And since the vibratos are all over the songs, and all over 12 songs ... well, you get it. The Cascio songs are not Michael Jackson. If you want, it's all down to the vibrato issue. No matter of 'I can hear him' or not.

 

[SoCav]

http://soundcloud.com/pentummj/gone-too-soon-snippet

Jason Malachi singing Gone Too Soon live (snippet). Sounds awfully like the vocals in Water.

Thanks! Did you manage to track down more from his Cleveland performance?

 

[Chamife]

http://soundcloud.com/pentummj/gone-too-soon-snippet

Jason Malachi singing Gone Too Soon live (snippet). Sounds awfully like the vocals in Water.

Yes, in the 'of an eye' from 'In the twinkling of an eye' his voice sounds the same as 'in my life' from 'you are all in need in in my life' from 'All I need'.
That's what it reminded me of.

ETA: It's as clear as WATER to me..

 

[Pentum]

Thanks! Did you manage to track down more from his Cleveland performance?

Still working on it.

 

[ivy]

@Grent

Thank you and no you aren't being a smart ass I don't know that much detail or ever used the program.

What I know and what kinda surprises me is that I know musicians and worked with them and they had mentioned me processing artifacts on vibrato that it would make it unnatural and they also mentioned lengthening/shortening notes / stretching the vocals to the right tempo etc (over a certain limit 10%) audio can get wobbly and have vibrato and tremolo effects and such.

So what confuses me is that people here saying those things aren't possible when other musicians say that they are possible

 

[Chamife]

We didn't go with the Autotuning, we went with the Melodyne 'cause we can actually move the stuff up, which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still getting the true Michael Jackson.

I don't want to be a nitpicker, but I think this is a strange thing to say. It's as if I would like everything with Michael's name on it, no matter what it sounds like

 

[Lucilla]

@Grent

Thank you and no you aren't being a smart ass I don't know that much detail or ever used the program.

What I know and what kinda surprises me is that I know musicians and worked with them and they had mentioned me processing artifacts on vibrato that it would make it unnatural and they also mentioned lengthening/shortening notes / stretching the vocals to the right tempo etc (over a certain limit 10%) audio can get wobbly and have vibrato and tremolo effects and such.

So what confuses me is that people here saying those things aren't possible when other musicians say that they are possible

Maybe this is an example?

[youtube]trBPrfCiE3Y&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[eXceLOfFam1]

I'm confused. First of all what are we talking about: pitch correction or note duration changes - such as speed up?

I'm looking to your soundcloud and for example you get a fast vibrato on the speed up earth song but not " loud, abrupt, forced vibrato" according to your own definition.




and are you sure the vibrato is the singer and can not be due to the leftover modulation effects if amplitude, timbre, volume and so on?
for example :

"The amplitude gives me the most problems. Even if I can straighten out a bad vibrato, there will still be an oscillating volume left, like a tremolo, very audible and I have problems to make it go away. "

and are you saying that you can't change amplitude in melodyne? I thought they had a tool for it as well.

like I said I'm confused I guess.

its simple just think of it this way, amplitude is simply another word for loudness or volume, and will no way affect the way vibrato sounds besides how loud it is, pitching vibrato will not change it either, the only thing that can change vibrato is time stretching it or time compressing it, making it slower or faster, hope that helps you

 

[Grent]

What I know and what kinda surprises me is that I know musicians and worked with them and they had mentioned me processing artifacts on vibrato that it would make it unnatural and they also mentioned lengthening/shortening notes / stretching the vocals to the right tempo etc (over a certain limit 10%) audio can get wobbly and have vibrato and tremolo effects and such.

Well, you heard how messed up Will you be there, pitched up one octave is. It's unsuable and has loads of artifacts. But the tempo of the vibrato is hardly affected.

Maybe this is an example?

This is a good example! It's messing around much more than just 'move the vocals up' or 'speed them up'. These edits are much deeper and therefore you notice the unnatural behaviours of the voice much more. Notes are streched, single notes are moved up and down - so the transitions between notes are also affected. When you move all the notes the same, or quite the same, they are not affected that much.

When Teddy says, there were a lot of flat notes and they had to much the vocals up to match the music, that usually means, single notes were off key to an extent of < 1 semitone and the moved the whole vocal up maybe up to 3 semitones. These are values, you would hardly notice if done properly and sensitively. I'll post an (overdone) example:

http://soundcloud.com/mjlover01/will-you-be-there-3up-correct

Apart from the horrible mp3-quality of the source material: Pitched up by 3 semitones and corrected the pitch (100%) of every note with Melodyne. At times it sounds unnatural (you could put more effort into certain areas, and also not every note needs to be spot on 100%), but the character of the voice isn't changed at all. Neither is the vibrato speed.

For Melodyne, this is quite a rude edit already, and still it's Michael Jackson. You wouldn't want to put that on a record though in that form. So musicians that say, Melodyne isn't usable at a change of X % - they are right. But that's got nothing to do with the vibrato speed of the singer.

Now if they had changed the alleged MJ rough demos / guide vocals in to new songs with different melodies and note length (like the lucilla example) ... it would sound as processed - but the vibrato would not change throughout the whole song - only the notes, they may have shrinked. And it can be ruled out that Eddie or Teddy shrinked every single note where the fast vibrato is present - in 12 songs ! Especially, when the vibrato occurs within a sentence/word rather than just at the end.

 

[Grent]

its simple just think of it this way, amplitude is simply another word for loudness or volume, and will no way affect the way vibrato sounds besides how loud it is, pitching vibrato will not change it either, the only thing that can change vibrato is time stretching it or time compressing it, making it slower or faster, hope that helps you

To be precise that's not entirely true. Because it is about how loud the loud parts of the vibrato are in relation to the parts of lower volume. So it's not about the absolute volume of the whole note, but the volume-changes within. If they are smaller, the whole vibrato sounds different.

But in general you are right - this got nothing to do with vibrato speed.

 

[Billyjeanplxiv]

All this stuff is interesting, but i dont know what tromolo is, and whats an octave?

 

[ivy]

its simple just think of it this way, amplitude is simply another word for loudness or volume, and will no way affect the way vibrato sounds besides how loud it is, pitching vibrato will not change it either, the only thing that can change vibrato is time stretching it or time compressing it, making it slower or faster, hope that helps you

To be precise that's not entirely true. Because it is about how loud the loud parts of the vibrato are in relation to the parts of lower volume. So it's not about the absolute volume of the whole note, but the volume-changes within. If they are smaller, the whole vibrato sounds different.

But in general you are right - this got nothing to do with vibrato speed.

@eXceLOfFam1

I tend to think most musicians will disagree with you. As I said I'm not an expert but I have heard musicians discuss vibrato as a combination of pitch, amplitude, timbre and so on and that any change in one can alter the natural vibrato. Like Grent said I have heard them mentioning Vibrato can sound different and that it would actually require a more detailed correction - that includes amplitude corrections, pitch transitions and such - to keep the vibrato "natural" .

 

[Grent]

All this stuff is interesting, but i dont know what tromolo is, and whats an octave?

Tremolo is a modulation of amplitude - meaning, a signal becomes louder and quieter - over and over again - in a certain frequency. A vocal vibrato usually contains vibrato (tone getting slightly higher and slightly lower) and tremolo at the same time.

An octave are 12 semitones.

@ivy

You're right. But still - Melodyne doesn't touch that. What musicians are talking about, is, how can you correct a weak singer via Melodyne. Regarding pitch - no problem. Regarding vibrato ... not even Melodyne can be of great help here. But as I said, Melodyne just doesn't affect the vibrato, if you don't mess horribly around.

Listen to this:

At the beginning you don't hear much. At the end the singer gets higher - out of tune, so to speak, which is common. Melodyne just pushes her back to the original starting level pitch wise. And it sounds wonderful, except for the one high tone ... this is simply overdoing it.

 

[Pentum]

This is what all artists use these days. Should never have existed.