Michael - The Great Album Debate

[144000]

uhmm perhaps you should pay attention to the part where I wrote "IMO" - in my opinion and twice said "That's me. That doesn't have to be you." so what's the purpose of this post?

what's with all the 'uhmm's? we're all debating. we're all working on trying to be respectful. it just seems like your posts are designed to intimidate us. certainly, me.

 

[ivy]

what's with all the 'uhmm's? we're all debating. why all the hints that seem to try and intimidate people out of responding to you?

I welcome fair and relevant responses. Your post is totally irrelevant IMO when I clearly stated it was in my opinion and it didn't require to apply to everyone. So yeah I'll point it with uhmms if people are twisting my words.

yeah, because Paris doesn't know her fathers voice, very well.

Actually she doesn't. She said Hollywood Tonight is not Michael. She's a kid, she doesn't have the answers.

Edited to add : Before twitter verified her and changed her user name. She said HT wasn't Michael.

You can see our very own Qbee correcting her and saying HT is not one of the songs in question. You can read her answer and how adamant she is that she would know best.

Here's the link to the original tweet showing that it came from Paris's now verified twitter account

http://twitter.com/ParisJackson/status/77474803581325312

and here's the screen shot I took just now, showing her verified account, current icon and background

 

[144000]

I welcome fair and relevant responses. Your post is totally irrelevant IMO when I clearly stated it was in my opinion and it didn't require to apply to everyone. So yeah I'll point it with uhmms if people are twisting my words.





Actually she doesn't. She said Hollywood Tonight is not Michael. She's a kid, she doesn't have the answers.

you just were condescending to Paris. You tend to be condescending to me. You just tend to be that way, when expressing your opinions. You certainly appear to twist words. And more importantly, you come across, in one post as if you imply i don't have the ability to forgive..and that i am stuck in the past. Your opinions do more than just express an opinion. You intimidate. and you don't wish to see it. Plus..when you express an opinion..you appear to act as if YOU have all the answers, which you don't You don't know paris either. like the rest of us, you just see her Twitter account.
You do more than that, but i'm just tired, right now. I know you are admin, but i just wish you wouldn't make people feel like they are smaller than you.

 

[StellaJackson]

Was going to post something but pretty annoyed. The media have picked up on Abortion Papers, taken it out of context and used it to attack Michael. And as usual the comments sections on the articles are full of vile abuse.

 

[144000]

ivy..do you really know what Paris means when she says 'hollywood tonight' isn't really Michael? could it mean his voice? could it mean somebody taking his voice and playing dr. frankenstein in production..and that it wasn't his blessing..his production...something completely different from Michael's final vision? do you really know? again..you can't claim to truly know paris.

 

[ivy]

you just were condescending to Paris.

no. there's nothing condescending saying that she's a kid well because she's a kid. She was 9 years old when she was at the Cascios. She's just 14 years old now. She's not a magical savior. She's a kid and let her be a kid.

Similarly there's nothing condescending saying that she doesn't necessarily know her fathers voice. She's clearly mistaken about HT and it's a fact.

You tend to be condescending to me.

That's not my intent and but yeah at a heated discussion like this people do feel like other people are condescending towards them. Example : Well I thought you were condescending towards me when you wrote "what you call a harsh word, and what somebody else calls a harsh word are different." and so on. I clearly had stated it was my opinion and it didn't mean others should feel or act the same way. I felt like I did not need that lesson.

in one post as if you imply i don't have the ability to forgive..and that i am stuck in the past.

that wasn't aimed at you personally. You can see that just before I wrote to Socav "will address it below" and I clearly reference Bumper in the post. It was a general post addressed to everyone. I didn't mean you personally.

you appear to act as if YOU have all the answers, which you don't

I never claimed such thing. Just go back in my posts and I clearly wrote in a reply to Bumper "this is an unknown for me". It's impossible for me to act like I have all the answers when I clearly said I don't know it for sure.

You don't know paris either. like the rest of us, you just see her Twitter account.

I never said I knew Paris. Heck I even said I didn't know Branca and some other people in this thread knew more about him then I do. See I don't like I act like I have all the answers. And as for Paris's twitter, it's a fact that she said HT isn't Michael - multiple times. You can see it too. I don't need to know Paris personally to read what she has written publicly. It's there in black and white.

I know you are admin, but i just wish you wouldn't make people feel like they are smaller than you.

perhaps you should really read this thread and you'll see that everyone in this heated discussion thread is trying to prove their point and prove the other side wrong. For example if you look to any of the doubters posts you'll see that most of the time they are hinting that the people who believe the songs to be legit somewhat inferior or smaller or flawed or bad people. It's the nature of this thread my friend.


edited to add

ivy..do you really know what Paris means when she says 'hollywood tonight' isn't really Michael? could it mean his voice? could it mean somebody taking his voice and playing dr. frankenstein in production..and that it wasn't his blessing..his production...something completely different from Michael's final vision? do you really know? again..you can't claim to truly know paris.

she also had a formspring account and on that account she said Michael used to sing her to sleep every night and she knew his voice. (sorry don't have a screenshot of that one) She's clearly referring to his voice IMO.

For rest you need to ask it to her. But I don't think it's a production issue because on Instagram she also said

"Hold my hand is my dad. I know this because I was with him the night he recorded it. half of the songs on the album are him, the other ones aren't"

she's again clearly referencing his voice and not the production in my humble opinion. All of the songs on Michael had some production that wasn't Michael's vision including Hold my Hand. But as I said ask Paris what she means by it.

 

[StellaJackson]

Paris may have been confusing HT with Monster due to the repeated use of the word "Hollywood". She since corrected herself by saying it is the 3 Cascio songs that are fake. Also, with regards to the children...

Prince and Paris gave written statements, at the request of the Estate, where they were asked to list all song titles that Mj was working on immediately before, during and after his stay at the Cascios. None of the Cascio titles appeared on the list. They were then played all the Cascio songs and asked if they could recall Michael working on said songs at any point. However, due to the fact that they were friends with the Cascios, and would likely defend them, they were not told where the songs they were listening to had originated from. They stated that they had no recollection of Michael ever working on any of the 12 songs and that they did not recognise the voice on the tracks.

Further to this, they were asked about the last time that they spent any time with the Cascios prior to the song controversy. It was when they vacationed with them after attending the 2010 Grammy Show where they collected the award on behalf of Michael. Eddie Cascio made no mention of any songs that he was intending to sell to Sony, which would happen in just a few months.

 

[ivy]

Paris may have been confusing HT with Monster due to the repeated use of the word "Hollywood". She since corrected herself by saying it is the 3 Cascio songs that are fake.

I have never seen this. I have only seen that she corrected TMZ story that she said Hold My Hand is not Michael. Could you please show us a screencap?

Prince and Paris gave written statements, at the request of the Estate, where they were asked to list all song titles that Mj was working on immediately before, during and after his stay at the Cascios. None of the Cascio titles appeared on the list. They were then played all the Cascio songs and asked if they could recall Michael working on said songs at any point. However, due to the fact that they were friends with the Cascios, and would likely defend them, they were not told where the songs they were listening to had originated from. They stated that they had no recollection of Michael ever working on any of the 12 songs and that they did not recognise the voice on the tracks.

I would like to get a source for this but probably I won't.

 

[144000]

no. there's nothing condescending saying that she's a kid well because she's a kid. She was 9 years old when she was at the Cascios. She's just 14 years old now. She's not a magical savior. She's a kid and let her be a kid.

Similarly there's nothing condescending saying that she doesn't necessarily know her fathers voice. She's clearly mistaken about HT and it's a fact.




That's not my intent and but yeah at a heated discussion like this people do feel like other people are condescending towards them. Example : Well I thought you were condescending towards me when you wrote "what you call a harsh word, and what somebody else calls a harsh word are different." and so on. I clearly had stated it was my opinion and it didn't mean others should feel or act the same way. I felt like I did not need that lesson.



that wasn't aimed at you personally. You can see that just before I wrote to Socav "will address it below" and I clearly reference Bumper in the post. It was a general post addressed to everyone. I didn't mean you personally.



I never claimed such thing. Just go back in my posts and I clearly wrote in a reply to Bumper "this is an unknown for me". It's impossible for me to act like I have all the answers when I clearly said I don't know it for sure.



I never said I knew Paris. Heck I even said I didn't know Branca and some other people in this thread knew more about him then I do. See I don't like I act like I have all the answers. And as for Paris's twitter, it's a fact that she said HT isn't Michael - multiple times. You can see it too. I don't need to know Paris personally to read what she has written publicly. It's there in black and white.



perhaps you should really read this thread and you'll see that everyone in this heated discussion thread is trying to prove their point and prove the other side wrong. For example if you look to any of the doubters posts you'll see that most of the time they are hinting that the people who believe the songs to be legit somewhat inferior or smaller or flawed or bad people. It's the nature of this thread my friend.


edited to add



she also had a formspring account and on that account she said Michael used to sing her to sleep every night and she knew his voice. (sorry don't have a screenshot of that on) She's clearly referring to his voice IMO.

For rest you need to ask it to her. But I don't think it's a production issue because on Instagram she also said

"Hold my hand is my dad. I know this because I was with him the night he recorded it. half of the songs on the album are him, the other ones aren't"

she's again clearly referencing his voice and not the production in my humble opinion. All of the songs on Michael had some production that wasn't Michael's vision. But as I said ask Paris what she means by it.

of course you know i cannot reach paris. that's why you tell me to talk to her.

and...no...nothing is clear on everything you say..and i don't pay as much attention to what you say to other people as i pay what you say to ME. so that's how i judge the majority of your posts.

you're right..we would have to ask Paris..if we could get to her. until then nothing is as clear as you say it is about hollywood tonight, or anything else. again..even if Michael sang her to sleep, she could still mean much more than his voice..

she could mean something wayyy deeper.

and it's the way you say..paris is 'just a kid' it's the way you say it. yes..this is a heated debate, and it could affect emotions. but as you say..we are supposed to try and practice respect. i am making a concerted effort. i wish you would, too. if i do, i tend to use the edit button, as much as i can.

 

[ivy]

of course you know i cannot reach paris. that's why you tell me to talk to her.

ways to reach paris

twitter @parisjackson - http://twitter.com/parisjackson

instagram @fluffilla_j

from the screenshots you can see it's the way how everyone reaches to Paris. Qbees tweeted to her and she replied to her. She replied to people on instagram (about hold my hand) as well as formspring.

So why would you not be able to reach to her while all of these other people could?

 

[StellaJackson]

I have never seen this. I have only seen that she corrected TMZ story that she said Hold My Hand is not Michael. Could you please show us a screencap?



I would like to get a source for this but probably I won't.

Source=check your pm.

 

[ivy]

thank you but if I might, let me tell you what it is confusing

you said "She since corrected herself by saying it is the 3 Cascio songs that are fake."

I don't think she's saying only 3 cascio songs are fake - based on this instagram post dated the exact same time of your screenshot

she's saying half of the songs are fake which makes it 5, 3 Cascio songs, HT and one more.

That's my personal interpretation. I don't think she's limiting the fakes to Cascio songs.

 

[144000]

ways to reach paris

twitter @parisjackson - http://twitter.com/parisjackson

instagram @fluffilla_j

from the screenshots you can see it's the way how everyone reaches to Paris. Qbees tweeted to her and she replied to her. She replied to people on instagram (about hold my hand) as well as formspring.

So why would you not be able to reach to her while all of these other people could?

first of all..i am not as well versed in twitter as many people. secondly..i consider her distant, and i don't try to study her deep and i am intimidated at the idea of trying to get to know her. i don't feel comfortable to that extent.

plus..from an earlier post..the idea of her saying 'it's not Michael or it is Michael singing to me' is not something others can claim to know about. that's quite intimate.

and..again..my interpretation of 'it's Michael' vs. 'it's not Michael' is taken from R. kelly, Will I Am, Quincy Jones, for the most part.

Michael was the beginning, the middle and the end and super hands on on everything he ever did..and the final word. Nobody has to remind me it's past june twenty fifth two thousand nine. but beyond his last truly hands on type thing..to me, it's never Michael, either. And yes..in Motown days, he didn't write..but it was still Michael Michael Michael.

 

[StellaJackson]

thank you but if I might tell you what it is confusing

you said "She since corrected herself by saying it is the 3 Cascio songs that are fake."

I don't think she's saying only 3 cascio songs are fake - based on this instagram post

she's saying half of the songs are fake which makes it 5, 3 Cascio songs, HT and one more.

That's my personal interpretation. I don't think she's limiting the fakes to Cascio songs.

Assuming she's not generalising and literally means half the album then that is certainly worrying. I don't think the children should really be brought into it but I did want to point out that bit of info.

 

[WildStyle]

Surely the children would have remembered at least one of the Cascio songs being recorded if it were really Michael. Out of 12 songs, they don't remember 1? I can excuse her for her thoughts on Hollywood Tonight as she was just a baby (literally) when it was recorded and Teddy Riley went to work on it something shocking with autotune and BS. However she was 9 years old and with her father every day when he was supposedly recording these 12 songs at the Cascio house. Yet she (nor Prince) doesn't remember a single song (nor do they recognise his voice). There are so many red flags everywhere with regards to these songs, but it seems believers will not acknowledge a single one.

 

[144000]

lol..some damn good tags for this thread.

 

[elapentela]

Surely the children would have remembered at least one of the Cascio songs being recorded if it were really Michael. Out of 12 songs, they don't remember 1? I can excuse her for her thoughts on Hollywood Tonight as she was just a baby (literally) when it was recorded and Teddy Riley went to work on it something shocking with autotune and BS. However she was 9 years old and with her father every day when he was supposedly recording these 12 songs at the Cascio house. Yet she (nor Prince) doesn't remember a single song (nor do they recognise his voice). There are so many red flags everywhere with regards to these songs, but it seems believers will not acknowledge a single one.

The kids were in school or in bed when Michael was working in the studio in Cascio's house. You can not compare the space and the luxury Palms hotel studio and the basement studio in NJ house. In Palms studio there is enough space for visitors and it's the real pleasure to watch the recordings through the window. There is no way the kids would watch MJ recording in Eddie's studio because there is no condition for this. Paris should to tell what she think her father was doing in the house when they slept, played with the other Cascios or were studying in the classroom

 

[WildStyle]

In all the time it would have taken them to record 12 songs, the kids didn't witness a minute of it? Michael never casually sang the songs to himself around the house? Why don't his children recognise his voice on crystal clear recordings?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

It is incredible that a young teenage girl, Paris, daughter of Michael Jackson, comes forward to give her opinion on the Cascio songs, and that grown-ups like Eddie and Jason are hiding like chickens.

The one who triggered the controversy, Eddie, should have balls to come forward and show all the proof he has got, not a picture of an empty studio.

 

[Paw]

Ivy if you contact 3T or Cory Rooney, I think you will have the source for that story Stella told you.

 

[elapentela]

It is incredible that a young teenage girl, Paris, daughter of Michael Jackson, comes forward to give her opinion on the Cascio songs, and that grown-ups like Eddie and Jason are hiding like chickens.

The one who triggered the controversy, Eddie, should have balls to come forward and show all the proof he has got, not a picture of an empty studio.

Paris is an orphan looking for love and attention on the public social networks. I don't think that if she had her father around she would have time and permission to spend so much time on line talking to strangers about very controversial subjects. And Paris did not mention that she ever asked Eddie for proofs that's is her father singing on the tracks. I believe that Eddie and his attorney would accept the request if it would be for her private use.

 

[144000]

Paris is an orphan looking for love and attention on the public social networks. I don't think that if she had her father around she would have time and permission to spend so much time on line talking to strangers about very controversial subjects. And Paris did not mention that she ever asked Eddie for proofs that's is her father singing on the tracks. I believe that Eddie and his attorney would accept the request if it would be for her private use.

i wish people would stop diagnosing. let's face it. no knowledge of paris.

once everybody formulates an opinion..it's like religion. either one believes or doesn't. it's not about knowledge. it's about an opinion, and the unmoveable sticking with it. this thread should just end, but it won't.

 

[elapentela]

In all the time it would have taken them to record 12 songs, the kids didn't witness a minute of it? Michael never casually sang the songs to himself around the house? Why don't his children recognise his voice on crystal clear recordings?

I don't think the kids did witness any rehearsal for TII and as you could hear watching the movie, Michael even never mentioned them when working. Is there any song with the message like Smile or The Lost Children among Cascio's tracks? It seems MJ sang only that kind of songs around his children.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I don't think the kids did witness any rehearsal for TII and as you could hear watching the movie, Michael even never mentioned them when working. Is there any song with the message like Smile or The Lost Children among Cascio's tracks? It seems MJ sang only that kind of songs around his children.

Is there any note that MJ left about those 12 entire songs? A single note? Take your time before answering.

 

[Pentum]

I don't think the kids did witness any rehearsal for TII and as you could hear watching the movie, Michael even never mentioned them when working. Is there any song with the message like Smile or The Lost Children among Cascio's tracks? It seems MJ sang only that kind of songs around his children.

Biggest assumptation ever

 

[OnirMJ]

Paris was 1 year old when Michael recorded Hollywood.

 

[OnirMJ]

The kids were in school or in bed when Michael was working in the studio in Cascio's house. You can not compare the space and the luxury Palms hotel studio and the basement studio in NJ house. In Palms studio there is enough space for visitors and it's the real pleasure to watch the recordings through the window. There is no way the kids would watch MJ recording in Eddie's studio because there is no condition for this. Paris should to tell what she think her father was doing in the house when they slept, played with the other Cascios or were studying in the classroom

You really think that Michael didn't talk to his children? You really think that he would not once said to them "I recorded 12 amazing songs. Would you like to hear them?"

Also that was not a studio back then in 2007. It was just a room with a microphone and a computer. With no proper sound isolation. If they were recording there kids would definitively hear them.

 

[OnirMJ]

Paris is an orphan looking for love and attention on the public social networks. I don't think that if she had her father around she would have time and permission to spend so much time on line talking to strangers about very controversial subjects. And Paris did not mention that she ever asked Eddie for proofs that's is her father singing on the tracks. I believe that Eddie and his attorney would accept the request if it would be for her private use.

What proof would Eddie show her? A bathroom, a picture of an empty studio, few pictures of them with MJ, exact same demos we already have that they sold to Sony that can prove nothing? They said them self that their computer broke, that they deleted other MJ vocals because they needed more space on their hard drive and that those demos that they sold to Sony are the only copies that exist, no multitracks, nothing.

 

[Rudolf]

They said them self that their computer broke, that they deleted other MJ vocals because they needed more space on their hard drive and that those demos that they sold to Sony are the only copies that exist, no multitracks, nothing.

h34r:
I mean, really?? That's too xD.

 

[OnirMJ]

h34r:
I mean, really?? That's too xD.

Really.

"If you question the validity of a professional photo you can ask the photographer for more pictures from that photo shoot. If it is authentic the photographer will turn over different shots. Some with different poses, some even with eyes closed. I questioned the validity of the vocal's on "breaking news" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. I had the honor to learn and watch my uncle record my entire life and that is NOT how he worked. No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed. One dubious excuse after another." Taryll Jackson