Michael - The Great Album Debate

[Rudolf]

Really.

"If you question the validity of a professional photo you can ask the photographer for more pictures from that photo shoot. If it is authentic the photographer will turn over different shots. Some with different poses, some even with eyes closed. I questioned the validity of the vocal's on "breaking news" and several other songs of theirs that I've heard and they told me no other takes or tracks exist. They claim my uncle was so happy with the performance he instructed them to delete all the other files. I had the honor to learn and watch my uncle record my entire life and that is NOT how he worked. No outtakes, no other tracks, no backups, no proof. roughly 10 songs they turned in… same story for all of them. I asked for the computer it was created on... they said it broke. I asked for the original hard drive... they said it was destroyed. One dubious excuse after another." Taryll Jackson

Oh my. And yet this all is so much "coincidence only". It's fishy to say the least, if we assume it was really Michael.

 

[elapentela]

Oh my. And yet this all is so much "coincidence only". It's fishy to say the least, if we assume it was really Michael.

And what the reason to share anything with Taryl. Don't you think that MJ had the reason to stay and record with Cascios and not with other Jacksons. Do you know that Tito's sons used to have more professional home studio than Cascios. Did MJ ever stayed in their house longer than several hrs? Do a research. Believe me, Taryl would love to be in Cascio place as well as in Branca. And of course to do his "own research". He is not allowed. And by Michael Jackson. Nobody else.

 

[Rudolf]

And what the reason to share anything with Taryl. Don't you think that MJ had the reason to stay and record with Cascios and not with other Jacksons. Do you know that Tito's sons used to have more professional home studio than Cascios. Did MJ ever stayed in their house longer than several hrs? Do a research. Believe me, Taryl would love to be in Cascio place as well as in Branca. And of course to do his "own research". He is not allowed. And by Michael Jackson. Nobody else.

I'm not about that. The fact that absolutely nothing of MJ's outtakes or whatever left from Cascios was deleted due to broken PC and more HD space. That is unbelieveably funny. I'm not sure if it's even possible lol.

 

[elapentela]

I'm not about that. The fact that absolutely nothing of MJ's outtakes or whatever left from Cascios was deleted due to broken PC and more HD space. That is unbelieveably funny. I'm not sure if it's even possible lol.

Because of course it's not true. And you can be sure that everything is now in well protected safe. Remember Cascio and Porte worked with DiLeo already before Michael's death. He was a veteran professional in this business. He knew about all the "sharks" and their ways so he probably advised them well. And after spending so many years with MJ Eddie probably learned not to trust the other Jacksons.

 

[OnirMJ]

I'm not about that. The fact that absolutely nothing of MJ's outtakes or whatever left from Cascios was deleted due to broken PC and more HD space. That is unbelieveably funny. I'm not sure if it's even possible lol.

In the year of 2007 onwards! If he said that in 1985 I would say ok but to say something like that in era of super computers and hard discs of several TB of memory.

 

[OnirMJ]

Because of course it's not true. And you can be sure that everything is now in well protected safe. Remember Cascio and Porte worked with DiLeo already before Michael's death. He was a veteran professional in this business. He knew about all the "sharks" and their ways so he probably advised them well. And after spending so many years with MJ Eddie probably learned not to trust the other Jacksons.

It is true. "in well protected safe". Do you know that every Cascio track and many many other songs including many unreleased Michael Jackson songs were stolen from Sony vaults last year?

Frank DiLeo told the Estate that Michael was staying at the Cascios in 2007. TRUE. He told them that MJ worked with them on some songs. TRUE. But Frank didn't know if Michael recorded anything there. He was re-hired in 2009. And the reason why he knew about Cascio tracks is because Michael planned to record 4 of those tracks in London (according to engineer who worked on those 4 tracks).

 

[OnirMJ]

And what the reason to share anything with Taryl. Don't you think that MJ had the reason to stay and record with Cascios and not with other Jacksons. Do you know that Tito's sons used to have more professional home studio than Cascios. Did MJ ever stayed in their house longer than several hrs? Do a research. Believe me, Taryl would love to be in Cascio place as well as in Branca. And of course to do his "own research". He is not allowed. And by Michael Jackson. Nobody else.

It's not just Taryl. It's the whole world, the fans. He refused to show some evidence because he doesn't have any. He refused to do so when Taryl asked him, when other members of Jackson family asked him, when other producers who worked with MJ asked him (Cory Rooney), when Oprah asked him, when Ivy (MJJC) asked him, when unbiased, fair, objective and neutral author and journalist Joe Vogel asked him.

 

[ivy]

I'm not about that. The fact that absolutely nothing of MJ's outtakes or whatever left from Cascios was deleted due to broken PC and more HD space. That is unbelieveably funny. I'm not sure if it's even possible lol.

I think some people are trying to say that perhaps they lied to Taryll and said they don't have them to not show him anything. Actually if you believe Birchey's version and that the songs have multiple takes / tracks that actually debunks Taryll's story and it might mean that those stuff exists but Taryll was told they didn't to get rid of him.

 

[elapentela]

It is true. "in well protected safe". Do you know that every Cascio track and many many other songs including many unreleased Michael Jackson songs were stolen from Sony vaults last year?

Frank DiLeo told the Estate that Michael was staying at the Cascios in 2007. TRUE. He told them that MJ worked with them on some songs. TRUE. But Frank didn't know if Michael recorded anything there. He was re-hired in 2009. And the reason why he knew about Cascio tracks is because Michael planned to record 4 of those tracks in London (according to engineer who worked on those 4 tracks).

But nothing was stolen from "Cascio's vaults" so far. So it's mean Eddie got good advice about protecting valiuable MJ's staff. Do you really believe in broken computer? And again being for so long close to the recording equipment he had to use it. Michael used to record on prehistoric recorders so there is no way he would not "play" with the newer ones placed next to his bed.

 

[OnirMJ]

But nothing was stolen from "Cascio's vaults" so far. So it's mean Eddie got good advice about protecting valiuable MJ's staff. Do you really believe in broken computer? And again being for so long close to the recording equipment he had to use it. Michael used to record on prehistoric recorders so there is no way he would not "play" with the newer ones placed next to his bed.

Cascio "vaults" are empty. They sold everything to Sony. They said that themself.

 

[OnirMJ]

I think some people are trying to say that perhaps they lied to Taryll and said they don't have them to not show him anything. Actually if you believe Birchey's version and that the songs have multiple takes / tracks that actually debunks Taryll's story and it might mean that those stuff exists but Taryll was told they didn't to get rid of him.

Can you tell me please what is Birchey's version? Is his version that Cascios sold to Sony multitracks with separate Michael Jackson (or Jason Malachi) vocals (with multiple takes) and separate James Porte vocals and that producers at Sony mixed the vocals?

 

[elapentela]

And why he should to answer the requests than and now. Remember his teacher was Michael Jackson. Did Eddie acted any different than MJ regarding the media, fans or Jackson family. He may be forced to show MJ's staff only in court now. Everybody knows it's growing in value for him and the estate. If fans would want him to show it right now they don't have the other choice than action class lawsuit or whatever it is called.

 

[ivy]

Can you tell me please what is Birchey's version? Is his version that Cascios sold to Sony multitracks with separate Michael Jackson (or Jason Malachi) vocals (with multiple takes) and separate James Porte vocals and that producers at Sony mixed the vocals?

You need to ask him that , I don't know his version.

It's just that he wrote on this thread that there were multiple tracks to choose from. Some took it to mean that the imposter did multiple takes. Legit or imposter - it still shows that Taryll didn't know about all those tracks.

 

[elapentela]

Cascio "vaults" are empty. They sold everything to Sony. They said that themself.

They sold what they wanted to sell. Personally I would not take this statement seriously.

 

[OnirMJ]

You need to ask him that , I don't know his version.

It's just that he wrote on this thread that there were multiple tracks to choose from. Some took it to mean that the imposter did multiple takes. Legit or imposter - it still shows that Taryll didn't know about all those tracks.

Maybe Birchey lied.

If he was saying the truth and if Cascios and Sony lied to Taryll.. what is your opinion then (as a believer)?

You were saying that you believe that the songs are some Michael Jackson with a lot of James Porte. Do you think that Sony knowingly and intentionally mixed some MJ vocals with Porte vocals and then autotuned them to sound as close it's possible that it is only one voice?

If those are your beliefs, that means that you don't believe in Birchey's story because according to Birchey they had multiple takes for the whole songs of Michael Jackson/impersonator vocals.

 

[ivy]

Maybe Birchey lied.

If he was saying the truth and if Cascios and Sony lied to Taryll.. what is your opinion then (as a believer)?

You were saying that you believe that the songs are some Michael Jackson with a lot of James Porte. Do you think that Sony knowingly and intentionally mixed some MJ vocals with Porte vocals and then autotuned them to sound as close it's possible that it is only one voice?

If those are your beliefs, that means that you don't believe in Birchey's story because according to Birchey they had multiple takes for the whole songs of Michael Jackson/impersonator vocals.

Well for Taryll, Teddy Riled had said when he was going around making claims people were just going yeah man to get him shut up. So you people saying "yeah whatever" or "oh sorry we don't have those goodbye" is a possibility.

I don't know whether Birchey lied or not because I didn't see or hear what he saw and heard. I have no idea how many takes he claims there is. I would say 4 takes is quite normal for a song. A single full take wouldn't be that off for a guide vocal. Any additional vocal (such as Porte) should have their own takes as well - which Teddy Riley again confirmed it existed. Some things could also be open to interpretation. For example Birchey had said to me he believed there were 7 backvocal takes because the tracks were called mjbackvocals1 through mjbackvocals7 at whatever screenshot he was looking. However that could also mean that one single background track was layered 7 times. So it is impossible for me to make a determination as I didn't see or heard what he did.

It could mean Taryll lied, it could mean Birchey lied, it could mean both of them are correct and Taryll weren't shown the tracks. As always no single person has the answers and there's no determination either way.

As for MJ + Porte, I repeated myself a thousand times. 2 decades ago Virgin Records were making composite leads from Paula Abdul's vocals and a background singer they hired. It's a legal and existing for a long time practice to strengthen vocals

 

[cmstrike]

Also that was not a studio back then in 2007. It was just a room with a microphone and a computer. With no proper sound isolation.

That's called a home studio. The average person does not have a top of the line professional recording facility in their basement, and they do not need one either. If he had a microphone, an audio interface, two monitor speakers, and a computer running a digital audio workstation, Eddie had a home studio. Just because it doesn't look like a picture of the Hit Factory doesn't mean music is not being recorded there.

 

[WildStyle]

Paula Abdul couldn't sing, and neither can the sole lead vocalist on all 12 Cascio tracks.

Everyone should listen to the 6 new demos on Bad 25. Now THERE was a REAL vocalist! Beautiful, spine tingling vocal performances. On demo's none the less lol! Very few of them have verse lyrics that are anywhere near complete by the way. Yet he still sounds beautiful. Things that make you go hmmmm...

 

[OnirMJ]

Well for Taryll, Teddy Riled had said when he was going around making claims people were just going yeah man to get him shut up. So you people saying "yeah whatever" or "oh sorry we don't have those goodbye" is a possibility.

I don't know whether Birchey lied or not because I didn't see or hear what he saw and heard. I have no idea how many takes he claims there is. I would say 4 takes is quite normal for a song. A single full take wouldn't be that off for a guide vocal. Any additional vocal (such as Porte) should have their own takes as well - which Teddy Riley again confirmed it existed. Some things could also be open to interpretation. For example Birchey had said to me he believed there were 7 backvocal takes because the tracks were called mjbackvocals1 through mjbackvocals7 at whatever screenshot he was looking. However that could also mean that one single background track was layered 7 times. So it is impossible for me to make a determination as I didn't see or heard what he did.

It could mean Taryll lied, it could mean Birchey lied, it could mean both of them are correct and Taryll weren't shown the tracks. As always no single person has the answers and there's no determination either way.

As for MJ + Porte, I repeated myself a thousand times. 2 decades ago Virgin Records were making composite leads from Paula Abdul's vocals and a background singer they hired. It's a legal and existing for a long time practice to strengthen vocals

In that case, if Sony really has Michael Jackson acappellas without James Porte (before they added him to "strengthen the vocals") they could have release it. Because that Breaking News acappella proved nothing, it sounded even more weird. So you think that James is there to strengthen the vocals and not to fill the gapes? Because he did not succeed in strengthening the vocals. The vocals sound weak.

I think that Birchey tried to say (and I think Stella said that too) that they had multiple takes for each line. And that they had lead vocals for all verses, bridges and choruses recorded multiple time.

 

[OnirMJ]

That's called a home studio. The average person does not have a top of the line professional recording facility in their basement, and they do not need one either. If he had a microphone, an audio interface, two monitor speakers, and a computer running a digital audio workstation, Eddie had a home studio. Just because it doesn't look like a picture of the Hit Factory doesn't mean music is not being recorded there.

Read my post in full. That was not my point. I also said:

"If they were recording there kids would definitively hear them."

 

[elapentela]

Read my post in full. That was not my point. I also said:

"If they were recording there kids would definitively hear them."

So the kids should to know what more interesting was to do in Cascio's basement at the time they were asleep or in school.

 

[OnirMJ]

So the kids should to know what more interesting was to do in Cascio's basement at the time they were asleep or in school.

For 2 and a half months. Yes, they should have haerd something. You really think that he wasn't talking to them? That he never said to them: "I recorded 12 amazing songs, do you wanna hear them?"

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Well for Taryll, Teddy Riled had said when he was going around making claims people were just going yeah man to get him shut up. So you people saying "yeah whatever" or "oh sorry we don't have those goodbye" is a possibility.

Funny how it's easier to believe that they lied to Taryll but not to us the fans.

As far as I remember Taryll is not the only one demanding the proofs but half of the MJ fan community demands it, if not more than a half. Are they also lying to us that everything is broken down and lost? Or are they lying that they have the proof? Or are they lying that they don't know it's MJ's impostor's voice on those tracks? Anyway they don't do anything to make themselves credible.

 

[elapentela]

For 2 and a half months. Yes, they should have haerd something. You really think that he wasn't talking to them? That he never said to them: "I recorded 12 amazing songs, do you wanna hear them?"

Absolutely not. I assure you that this kind of production is too boring for regular kids. I don't believe he would even play for them Thriller
or Bad as a demo version. Definitely they discussed more important or funny subjects for kids their age than just regular, everyday recording artist's work. What kind of excitement you would expect from Michael just doing the basics. It's different story when there is the finished product, which basement recordings of course were not.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Absolutely not. I assure you that this kind of production is too boring for regular kids. I don't believe he would even play for them Thriller
or Bad as a demo version. Definitely they discussed more important or funny subjects for kids their age than just regular, everyday recording artist's work. What kind of excitement you would expect from Michael just doing the basics. It's different story when there is the finished product, which basement recordings of course were not.

So the kids make a list of bunch of songs they remember their father worked on and not one he presumably worked for the Cascio?

Also, in addition to the so called broken down computers, MJ didn't leave a single note or trace of the songs?

Believer's logic is based on so beyond range of incredible scenarios that it defies the chaos theory.

 

[elapentela]

Funny how it's easier to believe that they lied to Taryll but not to us the fans.

As far as I remembery Taryll is not the only one demanding the proofs but half of the MJ fan community demands it, if not more than a half. Are they also lying to us that everything is broken down and lost? Or are they lying that they have the proof? Or are they lying that they don't know it's MJ's impostor's voice on those tracks? Anyway they don't do anything to make themselves credible.

Do they have to or do they want to make themselves credible for fans community? Does Eddie is looking for any fans applause? Definitely it does't look like he does. As I mentioned before his teacher was Michael Jackson. Does Eddie acts any different than MJ was acting regarding the requests from the media, fans or other Jacksons.

 

[Chamife]

It is incredible that a young teenage girl, Paris, daughter of Michael Jackson, comes forward to give her opinion on the Cascio songs, and that grown-ups like Eddie and Jason are hiding like chickens.

The one who triggered the controversy, Eddie, should have balls to come forward and show all the proof he has got, not a picture of an empty studio.

It's because Paris has nothing to loose and of course also still is lovely naive (she was about 12,13, I think, at that time)
I noticed that once Frank Cascio tweeted to Paris and he never got any reply back from her. As she's a very active twitterer, that really stood out for me. It looks like the ties aren't very tight anymore...not as they used to be.

In all the time it would have taken them to record 12 songs, the kids didn't witness a minute of it? Michael never casually sang the songs to himself around the house? Why don't his children recognise his voice on crystal clear recordings?

From for example interviews Michael gave, we know that Michael had his children around him a lot. Of course they probably had schoollessons, but at the age of 9 and 10 it's hard to imagine they had no contact when Michael worked hard on the songs. They must have had questions for him or stories to tell him. But even if they did, I'm not sure after three years the children were still able to recall the songs.

Paula Abdul couldn't sing, and neither can the sole lead vocalist on all 12 Cascio tracks.

Everyone should listen to the 6 new demos on Bad 25. Now THERE was a REAL vocalist! Beautiful, spine tingling vocal performances. On demo's none the less lol! Very few of them have verse lyrics that are anywhere near complete by the way. Yet he still sounds beautiful. Things that make you go hmmmm...

On that Paula Abdul track with guiding vocals to make her voice sound stronger, we can still clearly recognize Paula Abdul's voice (I can), but Michael isn't anywhere to be found on the Cascio songs (although I must say I once thought I heard him in the backing vocals of 'Black Widow". But maybe because I really tried to hear his voice. I don't have anything saved on my computer anymore after it crashed..

 

[Chamife]

Do they have to or do they want to make themselves credible for fans community? Does Eddie is looking for any fans applause? Definitely it does't look like he does. As I mentioned before his teacher was Michael Jackson. Does Eddie acts any different than MJ was acting regarding the requests from the media, fans or other Jacksons.

Well, then he also should know that Michael's fans fight for him and don't give up easy, whether he likes it or not. And from stories I've read, Michael always talked to and payed attention to his fans.

 

[elapentela]

So the kids make a list of bunch of songs they remember their father worked on and not one he presumably worked for the Cascio?

Also, in addition to the so called broken down computers, MJ didn't leave a single note or trace of the songs?

Believer's logic is based on so beyond range of incredible scenarios that it defies the chaos theory.

Why do you believe there is nothing to show about the recordings. Because you didn't see it and you want it. As I suggested before go to the court and sue Eddie and Porte ( and Jason M. too ) for
the crime and the cause of your emotional distress.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Do they have to or do they want to make themselves credible for fans community? Does Eddie is looking for any fans applause? Definitely it does't look like he does. As I mentioned before his teacher was Michael Jackson. Does Eddie acts any different than MJ was acting regarding the requests from the media, fans or other Jacksons.

They don't have to at all. But then they should be prepared for the consequences among which they'll face fans' wrath.