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Michael - The Great Album Debate

ivy said:
the reason it comes as racist to me because the idea of a white man (malachi) cannot sound like a black man (michael). isn't that an argument of superiority / inferiority hence racists?

I'm okay with the notion that Malachi doesn't sound like Michael because he doesn't have the capability or ability, the minute you add "white" into it, it becomes racist IMO.
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No, it has nothing to do with racism, but with voice timbre. I gave an example with the singer of UB40 who is a white but sounds like black singer.

[youtube]YrwFkByhlJo&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube]fT1Sa91N75E[/youtube]
 
StellaJackson said:
It shows how the Estate and Sony were investigating Malachi well before any of us heard Breaking News.
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Oh but all they said in the report was that they contacted JM's team. As I said yesterday, no real investigation had been done. But, indeed it is intriguing that they thought of him just the way the fans immediately thought of him too as soon as BN was streamed.

I know that Ivy will say that the question that was asked to the musicologists was "is it MJ or not?" hence no need for further investigating JM's vocals. But I say, what if we hired other musicologists and simply ask them "Is it JM or not?" and they come up with the answer that it is, then we'd have quite a conflictual situation.

Avoiding the conflictual situation means avoiding asking the question "is it JM or not?"
 
Yeah by investigation I mean contacting Nauden. My point being that they didn't do that because the fans identified Jason. Someone on the inside did first. I'm curious as to who. And did they really think that Thad Nauden was going to admit that his client was involved? There is another explanation, which is one of complicity on the part of estate and Sony but that seems way too far fetched.
 
StellaJackson said:
Yeah by investigation I mean contacting Nauden. My point being that they didn't do that because the fans identified Jason. Someone on the inside did first. I'm curious as to who. And did they really think that Thad Nauden was going to admit that his client was involved? There is another explanation, which is one of complicity on the part of estate and Sony but that seems way too far fetched.
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If there was complicity, then it simply means that they anticipated the fans could recognize Malachi, so they included that info in the report to shut anyone's mouth who'd suggest it is JM. Pure strategy and anticipation.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
If there was complicity, then it simply means that they anticipated the fans could recognize Malachi, so they included that info in the report to shut anyone's mouth who'd suggest it is JM. Pure strategy and anticipation.
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Either way, the fact is that Jason's manager received 2 phone calls from the estate and one from Sony 3 weeks before Breaking News streamed. The contents of those calls could be crucial.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I know that Ivy will say that the question that was asked to the musicologists was "is it MJ or not?" hence no need for further investigating JM's vocals. But I say, what if we hired other musicologists and simply ask them "Is it JM or not?" and they come up with the answer that it is, then we'd have quite a conflictual situation.

Avoiding the conflictual situation means avoiding asking the question "is it JM or not?"
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in a court of law "is it JM?" wouldn't stand even for a second. It's leading.

StellaJackson said:
Yeah by investigation I mean contacting Nauden. My point being that they didn't do that because the fans identified Jason. Someone on the inside did first. I'm curious as to who. And did they really think that Thad Nauden was going to admit that his client was involved? There is another explanation, which is one of complicity on the part of estate and Sony but that seems way too far fetched.
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both teddy and the estate acknowledged that any concern was raised after the final tracklist and before the streaming. the reason they contacted anyone was that Jacksons were complaining. Again it's no secret either both Teddy and Jacksons had already acknowledged this.

and asking to Thad isn't looking for "admittance" , it's about removing yourself from liability. for example if these songs were faked and sony decided to release them but then heard about the controversy / they could be fake, it's their duty to investigate it. Asking Thad and Thad saying "it ain't Jason" removed the liability from Sony and places it on Thad/Jason as sony/ estate could argue "We asked, they lied".
 
ivy said:
in a court of law "is it JM?" wouldn't stand even for a second. It's leading.
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"Is it MJ?" is not leading and "Is it JM?" is leading? Lol. I don't think so. With that simple logic anyone could do anything. So, for example I sing a song, I copy paste some MJ voice here and there, I credit myself (as so called supporting vocals) and MJ and I ask the musicologists "is there MJ voice or not" in the track? They couldn't deny it. So reducing the case to "is it MJ" is neither sufficient nor less leading than investigating deeper and try to understand what really happened to the songs such as the issues related to:

-copy-pastes (what was copy-pasted and what was sung by MJ?)
-removing the ambiguity (who sings what?)
-removing the ambiguity of credits (was really everyone credited?)
and similar questions.

So far none of these questions have been answered.

Another example, "Take me away?" - Is it MJ or not?

[youtube]G_e9j0XxxZI[/youtube]

"Opis none" - Is it MJ or not?

[youtube]JxgQb3NEY04[/youtube]
 
StellaJackson said:
Either way, the fact is that Jason's manager received 2 phone calls from the estate and one from Sony 3 weeks before Breaking News streamed. The contents of those calls could be crucial.
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Yes, but transparency isn't their strong point, is it?
 
ivy said:
both teddy and the estate acknowledged that any concern was raised after the final tracklist and before the streaming. the reason they contacted anyone was that Jacksons were complaining. Again it's no secret either both Teddy and Jacksons had already acknowledged this.

and asking to Thad isn't looking for "admittance" , it's about removing yourself from liability. for example if these songs were faked and sony decided to release them but then heard about the controversy / they could be fake, it's their duty to investigate it. Asking Thad and Thad saying "it ain't Jason" removed the liability from Sony and places it on Thad/Jason as sony/ estate could argue "We asked, they lied".
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I think you didn't catch what Stella was implying. Who gave them the idea to contact JM's team before the fans heard the tracks? The Jacksons didn't know about this Malachi, they never said it was him, they just said it was not MJ.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
That's (mis)leading. The question is not is it bullshit or not. The question is: is it Michael? :D
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I don't even want to think about this. It's something fabricated by someone other than Michael. That's clear to me. Where's the melody he loved so much? Where's the message? This 'song' is ridiculous...:puke:

Oh...and I love Tom Jones, btw...God, what a voice...:kickass:
 
Chamife said:
I don't even want to think about this. It's something fabricated by someone other than Michael. That's clear to me. Where's the melody he loved so much? Where's the message? This 'song' is ridiculous...:puke:

Oh...and I love Tom Jones, btw...God, what a voice...:kickass:
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Well the same happened to the Cascio tracks, yet apparently answering the question "it is Michael" is enough.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Well the same happened to the Cascio tracks, yet apparently answering the question "it is Michael" is enough.
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And the worst of it is, that it's not even close to Michael's voice/singing...:banghead

Tom Jones again...:D
[youtube]oQHw2FPqRCk[/youtube]

[youtube]ILvYVxROhGk[/youtube]
 
Chamife said:
And the worst of it is, that it's not even close to Michael's voice/singing...:banghead

Tom Jones again...:D
[youtube]oQHw2FPqRCk[/youtube]




[youtube]ILvYVxROhGk[/youtube]
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HAHAHA I have to admit that Tom is NO Michael Jackson...however I have seen him twice in concert...he really is very entertaining in his own way. :D
 
xthunderx2 said:
HAHAHA I have to admit that Tom is NO Michael Jackson...however I have seen him twice in concert...he really is very entertaining in his own way. :D
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If Tom Jones were to perform in The Netherlands, I'd be there! Rarely go to concerts, but I do make an exception for some.
 
Tom Jones always reminds me of the Carlton dance on Fresh Prince :D

I love this show...Never gets old!

[YouTube]zS1cLOIxsQ8[/YouTube]
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
"Is it MJ?" is not leading and "Is it JM?" is leading? Lol. I don't think so.
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yes it's leading legally and not allowed for over a decade.

let me try this way : for example if assume that a crime happens in the apartment next to yours and you hear the perpetrator speak. so if you go to the police and say "I heard him speak and I think it's John down the street" that identification would hold. If the cops made you listen to John speaking and ask you is it John and you say yeah , it won't hold because it's leading and shown to be causing false results.

Similarly this voice identification has to stand on his own without introducing of any other people in the mix. For example if you listened to the breaking news streaming and said "that ain't Michael" that's a better identification then a person listening to a comparison video and saying "damn it's jason". because you have come to the independent determination that it isn't Michael but the other person accepted the suggestion that it's jason.

is it clearer now?

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I think you didn't catch what Stella was implying. Who gave them the idea to contact JM's team before the fans heard the tracks? The Jacksons didn't know about this Malachi, they never said it was him, they just said it was not MJ.
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they did. TJ said he believed it to be Malachi as well. I believe Taryll also mentioned impersonators some being better than the others. So it's clear that the minute they said "it's not Michael" by 1+1 = 2 logic they said it's an impersonator and not surprisingly Malachi is the first one that comes to mind. Regardless It's not really rocket science : not Michael but sounding like Michael = impersonator. an impersonator in USA and even close to NJ/NY area = Malachi. 5th graders can do this logic IMO.
 
I can't link to it obviously, but all Cascio demo snippets are on youtube. Untagged. Absolutely sickening that people can think that wailing idiot is MJ.

Edit: I did NOT upload them.

Edit: Sony have removed it. As soon as I made this post in fact. So who is grassing to Sony?
 
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That's our man :)

And the guy kissing his hand isn't some crazy fan but a colleague Mike Love of the Beach Boys

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