Michael - The Great Album Debate

[ADKIc3mAnX]

I hear you girl. MJJC has been running so slow here at work. I feel like going back to the dial-up age.



Unless Michael Jackson knew in 1982 that a guy named Akon will re-record WBSS with additional lyrics in 2008; otherwise, how is it possible that the background vocals are recorded in 1982. When Akon sang"We end up goining to her place. Wish I can tell you what I saw. Sexist woman in her negligee.... ", you can hear Michael's background. Then, when Michael sang the verse that starts with "You pretend that you are good..." you can hear Michael's voice is aged like fine wine. Gone is the youthful energy, but his voice became silkier and more soulful. It's Michael Jackson with his mature voice.



No song on Michael is finished. I don't need the official to tell me that. Michael Jackson is no longer here to approve any release. However, in my opinion, the vocal quality of Best of Joy is far superior than the Cascio tracks.



Yes, I did. What's your point?

And one more thing how can you fool experts and long time friends of MJ that have said that it is MJ ?

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

No, the one you linked is the one I am talking about and was always talking about.

But whatever.

Because I have this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qQfXLPIhTM and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eclSb8ItI00

 

[Pentum]

Have you even seen any good comparison videos at all?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I'll keep this as short as possible



they are regularly being archived. would you prefer us to archive this thread as well like the rest of the "michael" album section? so what are we now at fault to choosing to keep this thread ?

I suppose that you archive threads that are not necessarily old, but inactive. This thread has been active, so there's no need to archive it in a hidden section. If you archived it fine, but why hiding it? Anyway, even if you decided to archive it like other threads, you risk to see this discussion emerge over and over again, as this issue is clearly not to be archived yet.

and to quote you

The release of the new album is old news. The controversy when BN was streamed is old news. The report written by the Estate is old news. But the debate triggered by the controversy is not over.

you clearly state this is not "news" anymore and it's a "controversy". so where should have put this thread?

Wherever you want, but this thread has nothing to do with conspiracy nor is there any need to hide it.

plus do you realize that majority of the forum sections are not public? why aren't you complaining about for example 2300 jackson street not being public? who do you think "pressuring" us to make that portion "hidden"?

You are shifting the issue. This particular thread has not received clear answers from the responsibles. Now it's hidden and will certainly never get the public's attention. I don't care about other threads as other threads are not harming MJ's legacy to the extent these songs do.

murray case section had been private for a long time as well but I guess no one would remember that. and after a certain time after the trial it would be archived as well. I don't expect anyone complaining about that either.

But it's not in the conspiracy thread either.

the problem is that not everyone feels this way. I mentioned this before. over 800 people responded to our survey, yes we received the same complaint as you are writing but we in an equal amount received requests to close this thread / discussion for good as well.

Well, throwing us in the conspiracy thread wasn't necessarily the best solution either. Why not creating a separate thread from all others regarding the album issue and make it public?

the reality is the community is divided.

Hell it is. Thank Cascio/SONY/Estate for that, don't blame me.

You don't have to be convinced and I personally do not think that they are trying to convince anyone. like any product you have the option to not like it and not buy it. I wrote this before multiple times - almost all posthumous albums had some sort of controversy attached to them. This is no different from the perspective of Sony.

It is not a question of liking, it is a question of recognizing MJ's voice.

again that's what the expert said on max-jax , take your issues with him.

I don't need to. When someone is unable to differantiate bewteen the two, the easiest thing is to say "it's leading".

and as a phd and doing research I can tell you that each research has to stand on it's own feet by it's own merit.

Again throwing another title into my face. If you want to play it that way, let me tell you that I correct and supervise PhD theses on various stuff and I still detect many errors. Parallelly, I've been working on a PhD thesis for a decade now, I know what research is thanks.

you'll hate my answer but in court of law yes.. have you heard testimony saying "counsel is leading / counsel is testifying"? You can lead anyone anyway you want in normal life but if you want it to be a "proof" or "evidence" you shouldn't lead. So I guess the question is are you trying to satisfy your own curiosity or looking for proof? leading would depend on your choice. so go and find an expert and ask if it's Malachi. but it won't stand.

We are NOT in court of law. By the way your "leading" argument isn't logical at all. If you ask a victim to describe an agressor and the agressor says it is not him. Then according to you nobody could have right to ask if it's someone else under the pretext that it's so called "leading". Leading is when you lead someone to say "yes" to your argument, not when you innocently ask a question. What if in my example of the agressor all the witnesses identified the agressor and the accused person vehemently denied it? In the end, what if the accused had a twin brother whom he had never seen and it appears that the real agressor was his twin brother. So your "leading" argument wouldn't work in this case at all. By the way, as I said, it is not because you innocently ask a question that you are necessarily leading the person.

fine. continue to do it. my personal opinion is that the "bad publicity" part for Sony is over and I personally do not see a reason for them to be motivated to overcome it.

I am not spreading bad publicity about SONY. I like their products. I am spreading bad publicity about those Cascio songs only.

come on bumper, read better. I don't know from my experience how Michael recorded. I know from previous examples that Michael mumbled, sang harmonies, made up lines, kept recording while boards collapsed on him and shouted command when recording. all of those recordings are publicly available.

I did not deny that. I just said none of this exists on the Cascio tracks. I don't hear any mumbling and no worktape seems to exist contrary to what a certain Geraldo claimed.

you assume that Michael should have recorded perfect demos in Cascio's. I simply say perhaps he recorded not so perfect demos and they required copy-pasting to be completed.

Which would have been fine if there wasn't a problem with the voice timbre.

if copy paste is not the issue then why are you all bringing it up every day?

Every day??? Loool

Copy paste is yet another thing that bothers me especially after I heard the acappella of Breaking News. It's cunning and "leading". If you had followed the thread a bit before the trial you'd see that someone posted the acappella, and it's absolutely outragingly weird. If that's Michael on that acappella then I am saying I need much heavier proof than what we have been offered.

read the complete sentences please. and I didn't deny the cuts or pastes. I said you don't know the reason for the cuts and pastes. you assume they copy - pasted parts to "michaelize" it and fool people but I'm saying perhaps there's another reason. For example michael sang "breaking lala news" and that's why they needed to cut "the" from someplace and paste it. To me it shows that they don't have access to the singer to re-record the "breaking the news" line and they need to copy - paste to finish that line. Again copy-pastes doesn't seem plausible to me if you have an imposter singing them. you can simply do another take.

I would have considered that possibility if the pasted word didn't sound different in voice timbre than the rest of the voice. Having one voice copy-pasted is one thing. But having two different timbres is odd. So, all I can come up with is imagine the reason why they did it the way they did since they don't let me any choice. they don't want to publish the report nor to explain "processing". You who like bringing up "in court of law" expression, wouldn't you ask the responsible "explain processing"?

you can believe it to be objective but it's not going to change the fact that there are people that don't think or believe the way that you do. so that would make all of our beliefs subjective personal opinions.

Didn't you read what I wrote. It is NOT subjective. I am admitting that there are two possible conclusions:

A) Michael Jackson that I seemingly cannot recognize
B) Impostor that I seemingly recognize

What is subjective here? You tell me.

I wrote that some parts don't sound like Michael and that they don't sound like Malachi to me either. I wrote I am more likely to believe it's another imposter than Malachi. As I never said "100% michael" I obviously considered the lead vocals.

Well, although many hear Malachi, they don't necessarily exclude the possibility of another impostor. It is not bothering if it is Malachi or not. What is bothering is that we cannot recognize Michael.

quote

Other organized actions exist such as:

-in the case of this web site not bow under SONY's pressure and make this thread visible to the general public

let's not insult my intelligence please. You clearly challenge this website to "not Bow" to Sony and make this thread public. and I'm saying that even the notion that we might be bowing to Sony or have to not bow to Sony is problematic. You should have only argued about this thread being visible or not.

Not bow under SONY's pressure does not mean that I said that this site works for SONY as you earlier claimed. So, I purposedly used "present simple" tense as a general statement be it yesterday, today or tomorrow without accusing the website of working with SONY. When I said "not bow" I meant "still to resist", it is you who misunderstood me and twisted my argument. The second argument had nothing to do with the first that's why I separeted the sentence with "AND" indicating that it is an additional issue, not necessarily merged with the first party of the sentence. I hope this cleared things up once for all. You should know by now since last year that I am straight forward and have never used innuendos in my arguments. So for someone who said that does not accuse people without proof, you hastily jumped to warn me for something I even didn't have on the back on my mind. When you don't understand something ask me to clarify rather than issuing me warnings, cuz I don't have time neither for innuendos on a serious subject nor justifying myself for something I did not do.

I don't care if you or other people feel pressured or not. We aren't and our placement of this thread has nothing to do with Sony. similarly not moving it to another section is not "bowing". I don't like the sentence of "not bow" as a staff. No one - not Sony not Estate - is telling us what to do or not to do. So I don't appreciate even the slightest innuendo that they might have some sort of say over what we do or don't do.

And I don't care what you appreciate or not. You have your opinion, I have mine. I cleared things up because you seem to have misunderstood me. Now if you bring this subject about SONY vs this web site issue again when I clearly did not say what you think I said, then staff or not, PhD or not, talk to the hand.

 

[love is magical]

I said that cause on Billie Jean 2008 and Beat It 2008 the vocals were just added from the originals and some were recent.

Let's just focus on WBSS 2008. As far as I know, WBSS is the only one with new vocals recorded. Billie Jean 2008 and Beat It 2008 are different. They are indeed from the originals. PYT 2008 is derived from a demo recorded by Michael in the early 80's.

And yes MJ couldn't have approved "Michael" since he wasn't there but he also didn't approve This Is It and on "Michael" he left notes with instructions on how to complete it so I guess he was working on releasing those tracks after or during This Is It.

This is a million-dollar question. Wher is the note Michael left for the Cascio tracks??? We've kept asking for the note for a year now. We've seen written story line for Hollywood Tonight, a voicel mail instruction for TWYLM, written lyrics for Best of Joy, Michael's note to Swedien for Much Too Soon. It seems there is always some trace of Michael's inputs on songs, but not on the Cascio tracks. By the way, don't take that "Michael's road map" too seriously. It's a mere marketing gimmick from Sony. There really isn't much a roadmap whatsoever.

The comment I left of suing Sony is because doubters will never listen to others I left a post with why I think MJ sings and what does the doubter do ? He or she say it's Malachi what info does that person have to why it's Malachi and not MJ just a video with Malachi singing

Have you listened to what the doubters have to say yourself? Have you tried to be open mind and let your belief be challenged? At least, the doubters spent the time to respond to your post point-by-point. It's an effort. It's also a way of trying to engage in a conversation. If you disagree, then you are welcome to elaborate your point in your rebuttal.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Have you even seen any good comparison videos at all?

I might have I know I have some downloaded on my computer

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Let's just focus on WBSS 2008. As far as I know, WBSS is the only one with new vocals recorded. Billie Jean 2008 and Beat It 2008 are different. They are indeed from the originals. PYT 2008 is derived from a demo recorded by Michael in the early 80's.



This is a million-dollar question. Wher is the note Michael left for the Cascio tracks??? We've kept asking for the note for a year now. We've seen written story line for Hollywood Tonight, a voicel mail instruction for TWYLM, written lyrics for Best of Joy, Michael's note to Swedien for Much Too Soon. It seems there is always some trace of Michael's inputs on songs, but not on the Cascio tracks. By the way, don't take that "Michael's road map" too seriously. It's a mere marketing gimmick from Sony. There really isn't much a roadmap whatsoever.



Have you listened to what the doubters have to say yourself? Have you tried to be open mind and let your belief be challenged? At least, the doubters spent the time to respond to your post point-by-point. It's an effort. It's also a way of trying to engage in a conversation. If you disagree, then you are welcome to elaborate your point in your rebuttal.

Trust me I listened to the doubters many of my friends were doubters before too.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Let's just focus on WBSS 2008. As far as I know, WBSS is the only one with new vocals recorded. Billie Jean 2008 and Beat It 2008 are different. They are indeed from the originals. PYT 2008 is derived from a demo recorded by Michael in the early 80's.



This is a million-dollar question. Wher is the note Michael left for the Cascio tracks??? We've kept asking for the note for a year now. We've seen written story line for Hollywood Tonight, a voicel mail instruction for TWYLM, written lyrics for Best of Joy, Michael's note to Swedien for Much Too Soon. It seems there is always some trace of Michael's inputs on songs, but not on the Cascio tracks. By the way, don't take that "Michael's road map" too seriously. It's a mere marketing gimmick from Sony. There really isn't much a roadmap whatsoever.



Have you listened to what the doubters have to say yourself? Have you tried to be open mind and let your belief be challenged? At least, the doubters spent the time to respond to your post point-by-point. It's an effort. It's also a way of trying to engage in a conversation. If you disagree, then you are welcome to elaborate your point in your rebuttal.

Have you seen this ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TxYH0hAjQ

Try to read the notes

 

[love is magical]

And one more thing how can you fool experts and long time friends of MJ that have said that it is MJ ?

Do you know Bruce Swedien does not remember who wrote Childhood? He even got the title wrong. He called the song "Have you seen my chilhood?" He also got some infomation mixed up. Again, not trying to discredit Bruce Swedien. He has worked with many top artists and thousands and thousands of songs. It's unreasonable to expect him to remember every single details of each song. My point is all these long-term collaborators are not MichaelJacksonolgists. They don't breath Michael Jackson like we do. Some of us here can recite the liner notes of each album. We listen to the same songs millions times continuously. It's not necessarily true that Michael's collaborators are more equiped to distinguish Michael's voice than fans.

Furthermore, Bruce Swedien and other producers are not "singing voice recognition experts" Recognizing singing voice is beyond their expertise. Swedien is a sound engineer. He's talented in capturing sound in its best form. He's an expert in sonic quality. He definitely knows which microphone to use and how to mix a tract. But, asking him to tell a singing voice apart? Over the course of his career, how many times has he been asked to tell to recognize Michael Jackson's singing voice?

As a matter of fact, musicologists nowadays spend most of their time on copyright infringement case. Singing voice recognition is an elusive field.

 

[love is magical]

Trust me I listened to the doubters many of my friends were doubters before too.

But, you don't listen to me. When you reply like this, I have to wonder whether you have read my post or you are trying to ignore my viewpoints.

Regarding notes that Michael left, have you seen any on the Cascio tracks?

 

[Jesta]

We have ALL seen the Making of MICHAEL, but they never explain ANYTHING about the Cascio tracks aside from the shower.

Best of Joy - we have the note.
Hollywood - we have the note AND some recording of Michael from a session.
(I Like) The Way - Phone message.

Why do we have nothing on these songs, yet these long-time producers like Neff-U can't wait to show us how Michael worked!?

 

[Aniram]

Also, interestingly, no pics of Michael in the studio, the shower, or was it the terrible vocal "booth"/area he recorded the songs in? They explain nothing... They make shifty eyes and are unbelievably vague, then disappear into their rich houses.

 

[ivy]

Now if you bring this subject about SONY vs this web site issue again when I clearly did not say what you think I said, then staff or not, PhD or not, talk to the hand.

I decided not to talk to you at all bumper.. enjoy it..

 

[Jesta]

Also, interestingly, no pics of Michael in the studio, the shower, or was it the terrible vocal "booth"/area he recorded the songs in? They explain nothing... They make shifty eyes and are unbelievably vague, then disappear into their rich houses.

And All In Your Name has proved that Michael wasn't opposed to being filmed in a studio. In fact, for the creative process he probably encouraged it, as shown in This Is It.

 

[Aniram]

Yeah, true, he loved film, and there's that famous pic of him behind the camera with Kenny Ortega, he looks so happy.

Kenny looks super happy! "Michael Jackson is touching my camera."

 

[StellaJackson]

You just put that video on PRIVATE. How embarrassing...

Yeah you just got owned big time. There is no need to come in here and lie. You indeed have the ultimate collection 34 disc set as I have watched your unboxing video on youtube. As soon as Pentum pointed this out after you denied having it, you immediately made the video private. And then when Pentum pointed this out you made it unprivate. So now we have established that you have it - what do you think of the song Let Me Let Go that is included?

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

We have ALL seen the Making of MICHAEL, but they never explain ANYTHING about the Cascio tracks aside from the shower.

Best of Joy - we have the note.
Hollywood - we have the note AND some recording of Michael from a session.
(I Like) The Way - Phone message.

Why do we have nothing on these songs, yet these long-time producers like Neff-U can't wait to show us how Michael worked!?

Do we have a demo for 2,000 Watts ? How about You Rock My World ? Why do people have to ask for so much ?

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

And All In Your Name has proved that Michael wasn't opposed to being filmed in a studio. In fact, for the creative process he probably encouraged it, as shown in This Is It.

Read Moonwalk MJ says he hates being seen recording

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Yeah you just got owned big time. There is no need to come in here and lie. You indeed have the ultimate collection 34 disc set as I have watched your unboxing video on youtube. As soon as Pentum pointed this out after you denied having it, you immediately made the video private. And then when Pentum pointed this out you made it unprivate. So now we have established that you have it - what do you think of the song Let Me Let Go that is included?

Read again buddy cause I had it but never got a chance to listen to the CD and we all know that Let Me Let Go isn't MJ

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Yeah you just got owned big time. There is no need to come in here and lie. You indeed have the ultimate collection 34 disc set as I have watched your unboxing video on youtube. As soon as Pentum pointed this out after you denied having it, you immediately made the video private. And then when Pentum pointed this out you made it unprivate. So now we have established that you have it - what do you think of the song Let Me Let Go that is included?

BTW the video was set on private cause I don't really want people to buy that since it's not official and I set it public when I asked him if that is what he's talking about so read slowly next time.

 

[kreen]

Is any line -- even just one line from 50's rap -- from Monster used in the Immortal show?

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Is any line -- even just one line from 50's rap -- from Monster used in the Immortal show?

Some I know the scream is used and from Breaking News the intro but my friend told me some parts of Keep Your Head Up are used but IDK for sure yet.

 

[André89]

Do we have a demo for 2,000 Watts ? How about You Rock My World ? Why do people have to ask for so much ?

Even if we put aside for a while that 2000 Watts and You Rock My World were released in Michael's lifetime with his full blessing, those songs still sounds 110 % like Michael Joseph Jackson. The same cannot be said of the Cascio tracks, which a large part of the fanbase recognises as someone else (i.e. Jason Malachi).

I don't think there is too much to ask for concrete proof when these songs are the only part of Michael's entire discography where "he" doesn't sound like himself.

On the contrary, it's only natural for people to be asking questions when even those who worked on them has to resort to far-fetched excuses in order to explain why the vocals are that off.

 

[StellaJackson]

You just put that video on PRIVATE. How embarrassing...

Some I know the scream is used and from Breaking News the intro but my friend told me some parts of Keep Your Head Up are used but IDK for sure yet.

Breaking News is NOT used. That line is from Tabloid Junkie. And there is definately nothing from Keep Your Head Up.

 

[StellaJackson]

You just put that video on PRIVATE. How embarrassing...

BTW the video was set on private cause I don't really want people to buy that since it's not official and I set it public when I asked him if that is what he's talking about so read slowly next time.

You made it private because you got caught out telling a lie that you didn't have it. And it wasn't because you thought Pentum meant the official Ultimate Collection as he clearly stated the 34 disc one. Earlier on you said you made the video to stop people buying it, then all of a sudden when you get caught for lying that you don't have it, you make it private (it had been public the whole time before that), then when you get caught out for that, you state it's cos you don't want people to see it so they don't buy it. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid. Your just digging yourself a deeper hole. While some of us disagree with your opinion, we do respect it, but there's no need to be lying to us.

 

[Aniram]

Fortunately, the more people listen to Michael Jackson and the Cascio tracks, the more they will inevitably realize it's not Michael Jackson.

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

Breaking News is NOT used. That line is from Tabloid Junkie. And there is definately nothing from Keep Your Head Up.

You need to listen again cause Breaking News and Monster are on Immortal

Keep Your Head Up IDK yet but my friend that went to the concert says it was

 

[ADKIc3mAnX]

You made it private because you got caught out telling a lie that you didn't have it. And it wasn't because you thought Pentum meant the official Ultimate Collection as he clearly stated the 34 disc one. Earlier on you said you made the video to stop people buying it, then all of a sudden when you get caught for lying that you don't have it, you make it private (it had been public the whole time before that), then when you get caught out for that, you state it's cos you don't want people to see it so they don't buy it. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid. Your just digging yourself a deeper hole. While some of us disagree with your opinion, we do respect it, but there's no need to be lying to us.

Your funny LOL

Read it slower please.

So your in my house to me what I have and don't have yeah you need help.

BTW you were added to my ignore list

 

[Aniram]

Aw... Let's just all ignore each other but keep posting.

 

[Arklove]

Aw... Let's just all ignore each other but keep posting.

:lmao: