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Michael - The Great Album Debate

StellaJackson said:
James Porte sounds nothing like Michael and nothing like the Cascio lead vocalist. Listen to the verses on All I Need. That is one voice. No one else is mixed in. It is a totally different voice to the one on the backing vocals in the chorus. Also, these songs aren't composed of bits and pieces. They are complete vocal tracks. Angelo Montrone also only heard 4 songs. I suggest someone send him some of Jason's music, some Michael's most recent recordings, Hold My Hand for example, Porte's private dancer and the comparisons and see what he says. His email is on his site.

And with regard to KYHU, let's not forget Duwayne Starling.
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We've never heard James Porte impersonating MJ, that's the problem. Angelo did. And who is Duwayne Starling?
 
"All I Need" is a perfect example of composite leads (fabricated lead vocal layers). If you cannot hear two singers in this, you clearly do have an auditory defect. Or you just don't care to take notice of the blendings and cuts.

Also @MJelboo: There have been no concessions. Michael's vocals are all over the songs and ivy and I aren't talking about copy-pasted stuff.
 
kreen said:
Hi Bernard,

Yes, you can reprint my letter on your forum.

My impression is that there were MJ vocals in existence and that probably those are what was used with various enhancements. I understand why people question it. The vocals on that album are not what people are used to hearing. Some of his vibratos sound off etc, but again if they were doing digital enhancements to make the best of rough vocals that could have been it, maybe MJ just wasn't singing his best because he was just learning the song etc.
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If, maybe, could have been, probably, my impression, = I KNOW NOTHING

+

2 confirmations by the engineer: 1) the vocals are unusal & 2) vibrato is off, etc.

kreen said:
What I find amusing about these arguments is that no one ever mentions the fact that Porte himself is a great MJ impersonator. If they were going to fake the tracks, which I don't think they did, Porte would have done it himself.

That's why I take a 95% stance that they are probably real and reserve that last 5% for the slim possibility that some of it could have been faked. When I was working on the roughs, it was almost eery that the vocals already sounded a lot like MJ but were sung by Porte to sound like MJ (they definitely were not MJ, ultimately I could hear that). So first I have these tracks that are eerily sounding like MJ but aren't, then 2 weeks after I submit them MJ passes away, and then there is the whole controversy around the potentially fake vocals, and all along we had joked that Porte could make a living as an MJ impersonator!
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And where can we hear James Porte singing?


kreen said:
I think it's cool that you guys are searching for some truth in all this which is why I'm happy to share some information. Most people who worked on that album are probably more concerned with covering their own asses than revealing what they know.

Regards,

Angelo
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Damn right. That is what we were suggesting too.
 
Korgnex said:
"All I Need" is a perfect example of composite leads (fabricated lead vocal layers). If you cannot hear two singers in this, you clearly do have an auditory defect. Or you just don't care to take notice of the blendings and cuts.

Also @MJelboo: There have been no concessions. Michael's vocals are all over the songs and ivy and I aren't talking about copy-pasted stuff.
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The only Michael Jackson vocals on the songs are the copy pasted ones. He does not sing lead vocals on any of these tracks. There is absolutely no evidence to support that. There is a wealth of evidence to suggest Jason Malachi is the lead vocalist. Starting with the songs themselves. They sound exactly like him. His vibrato, his accent, his pornounciation, his voice. Not once, in almost two years has one person managed to explain, using any supporting evidence, the reason for those vocal traits being shared by both JM and the Cascio vocalist. There has not been one outtake provided. No proof whatsoever. Nothing but excuse after excuse.
 
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Kreen, could you please ask him about the titles of the songs that he worked on?
 
Willy said:
Kreen, could you please ask him about the titles of the songs that he worked on?
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This is what I want to know, as well. I tried asking Angelo on GearSlutz, but he stopped responding back.
 
Some alternative versions of the Cascio songs contain even more MJ's copy pastes. For example the "haaaaw" from the video "Ghosts" is copy-pasted and skilfully put into the song "Monster". Also, the moving stone sound from "Threatened" is present in the alternative version of "Monster" throughout the whole song. So, indeed, there are blended vocals and music, but the only MJ's vocals are from his own previous songs.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Some alternative versions of the Cascio songs contain even more MJ's copy pastes. For example the "haaaaw" from the video "Ghosts" is copy-pasted and skilfully put into the song "Monster". Also, the moving stone sound from "Threatened" is present in the alternative version of "Monster" throughout the whole song. So, indeed, there are blended vocals and music, but the only MJ's vocals are from his own previous songs.
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Both those effects are still in the album version, but buried in the mix. Listen real carefully. They are still there.
 
StellaJackson said:
Both those effects are still in the album version, but buried in the mix. Listen real carefully. They are still there.
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I couldn't hear those effects on the album version, I have impression that they removed them because they were too obvious for fans to recognize those parts.
 
I"m sorry, but I don't hear a black guy singing. I hear a white guy singing.

Would love to hear that Exotic Dancer again. It's not on the net anymore...but we could talk about if it's possible if that voice can change into the voice we hear on the Cascio songs. My opinion is that it can't, but I'm willing to listen again.
Maybe this guy knows if it's James Porte in the lead, he's a vocal instructor and he worked with James Porte:

http://www.richardiv.com/richardfinkiv.htm

Who says btw that Jason Malachi's voice wasn't on the tracks already when Majestic studio got them? James Porte didn't sing in that studio? So then it wouldn't be strange that Angelo thought James Porte's voice sounded like Michael. A lot of people think Jason Malachi's voice sounds like Michael. When was Jason Malachi posting on MaxJax that something big was going to happen again? Maybe he recorded the songs before Michael died.

It is very well possible that I forgot or overlooked something. Feel free to correct me...:D

Besides the fact that indeed the main point is that it's not Michael I hear on the tracks, I do believe it's Jason Malachi also.
 
Well maybe there are some parts sung by JM, some by JP as lead vocalists, hence numerous takes. + MJ's copy-pasted vocals from previous songs.
 
uhmm I don't think listening to Exotic Dancer or Porte being Porte would bring anything. What is needed is to hear Porte as impersonating MJ to come to any valid conclusion.

An example would be Kipp Lennon. Not only he sang like Michael but he also sings like Elvis and he has his own voice as well. All 3 are different. So the same person can sound quite different based on who they are tying to be.

Listen to the following song, would you think that this is the same guy that sang Happy Birthday Lisa?



and Kipp being Kipp, doesn't sound like Elvis or Michael at all

 
ivy said:
uhmm I don't think listening to Exotic Dancer or Porte being Porte would bring anything. What is needed is to hear Porte as impersonating MJ to come to any valid conclusion.

An example would be Kipp Lennon. Not only he sang like Michael but he also sings like Elvis and he has his own voice as well. All 3 are different. So the same person can sound quite different based on who they are tying to be.

Listen to the following song, would you think that this is the same guy that sang Happy Birthday Lisa?
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Send the link anyway, if you have it.
 
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p.s. In the meantime, Jason Malachi seems to have re-opened his youtube account and has been active recently. If it's his account here's what he posted a few days ago:

[youtube]RAwASjN5ZTM&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
 
And I am to believe Bumper doesn't have a hidden obsession with the dude... :D
 
ivy said:
uhmm I don't think listening to Exotic Dancer or Porte being Porte would bring anything. What is needed is to hear Porte as impersonating MJ to come to any valid conclusion.
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That would be the best, but we don't have that at the moment..;D

An example would be Kipp Lennon. Not only he sang like Michael but he also sings like Elvis and he has his own voice as well. All 3 are different. So the same person can sound quite different based on who they are tying to be.

Listen to the following song, would you think that this is the same guy that sang Happy Birthday Lisa?



and Kipp being Kipp, doesn't sound like Elvis or Michael at all

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True, he sounds different all the time, but maybe after studying it a bit better, you can recognize similarities.

I heard of the band Venice btw. They often performed in Holland. Never knew that Kipp Lennon was one of the bandmembers.
 
Montrone didn't reply to my last email, so I guess he's had it with me and my questions. That's perfectly fine.

Somebody raised the possibility that it was Malachi that Montrone heard on the Cascio tracks he was given, and not Porte. Aside from making no sense – why would Porte/Cascio lie about the name of the singer on the tracks when MJ was still alive and when they couldn’t have yet come up with the idea of selling fake vocals, as MJ was still going to record their songs – it’s also impossible because Montrone himself, on the Gearslutz forum a couple of years ago, after the release of the « Michael » album, said that whoever is singing on the released Cascio tracks sounds much more like the real MJ than Porte did on the tracks he received.
 
Ok, when all is said and done, here is my opinion. MJ did record a bunch of guide vocals in 2007 with Eddie and James. He did work with them on the songs to some extent. He told them he’d lay down proper vocals for the 3 or 4 songs he liked the most or had done the most extensive work on. Porte sent those songs to Montrone, with his own vocals on it, imitating MJ – apparently he’s pretty good, if we believe Montrone and/or Korgnex (the latter seems to be 100 % certain – based on facts he has but probably shouldn’t have – that it is Porte singing the “too bad” line, which indicates Porte’s a pretty good MJ impersonator, or a pretty good JM impersonator, both skills that we didn’t suspect he had).

MJ dies, and Cascio/Porte take the few MJ vocals they have from 2007, and using a lot of studio trickery plus a ton of added vocals from Porte, doing his best MJ impersonation, they produce 12 presentable songs.

When the controversy breaks, it’s decided for legal/PR reasons to stick to the official explanation given, if only because the true story of how incomplete the original MJ vocals were, and how much Porte vs. MJ there is on some songs, would lead to bad publicity/legal grumblings about the ethics of selling as a MJ product songs that really only have, say, 40 % MJ.

And there we go. No big conspiracy, only a bit of fudging of the truth regarding MJ’s true contribution to the Cascio songs. The official story is true, or at least “true-ish”.

And I’ll make a concession to those that thought it was Malachi : MJ’s vocals, blended with Porte’s, taking into account that we didn’t know Porte’s voice, but were familiar with Malachi’s, could lead one to think it was actually Malachi, when it was another impersonator after all.
 
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Chamife said:
True, he sounds different all the time, but maybe after studying it a bit better, you can recognize similarities.
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yeah probably there are similarities. but for me for example the Elvis example nicely shows how he can modify his vibrato intentionally.

compare it to Elvis

 
Kreen, assuming hypothetically that your theory is correct: 40% of MJ's voice on a MJ song? And we should be fine with that? Lol
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Kreen, assuming hypothetically that your theory is correct: 40% of MJ's voice on a MJ song? And we should be fine with that? Lol
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Ah, that's an entirely different issue, and one on which former adversaries like ourselves would maybe actually agree!
 
kreen said:
Ah, that's an entirely different issue, and one on which former adversaries like ourselves would maybe actually agree!
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Well, it's difficult to agree when we don't have anything tangible except our ears. We didn't get any sort of proof from neither from Eddie nor from James Porte, nor from anyone involved in the recording or supposed analysing (the forensics).
 
kreen;3709057 said:
Ok, when all is said and done, here is my opinion. MJ did record a bunch of guide vocals in 2005 with Eddie and James. He did work with them on the songs to some extent. He told them he’d lay down proper vocals for the 3 or 4 songs he liked the most or had done the most extensive work on. Porte sent those songs to Montrone, with his own vocals on it, imitating MJ – apparently he’s pretty good, if we believe Montrone and/or Korgnex (the latter seems to be 100 % certain – based on facts he has but probably shouldn’t have – that it is Porte singing the “too bad” line, which indicates Porte’s a pretty good MJ impersonator, or a pretty good JM impersonator, both skills that we didn’t suspect he had).

MJ dies, and Cascio/Porte take the few MJ vocals they have from 2005, and using a lot of studio trickery plus a ton of added vocals from Porte, doing his best MJ impersonation, they produce 12 presentable songs.

When the controversy breaks, it’s decided for legal/PR reasons to stick to the official explanation given, if only because the true story of how incomplete the original MJ vocals were, and how much Porte vs. MJ there is on some songs, would lead to bad publicity/legal grumblings about the ethics of selling as a MJ product songs that really only have, say, 40 % MJ.

And there we go. No big conspiracy, only a bit of fudging of the truth regarding MJ’s true contribution to the Cascio songs. The official story is true, or at least “true-ish”.

And I’ll make a concession to those that thought it was Malachi : MJ’s vocals, blended with Porte’s, taking into account that we didn’t know Porte’s voice, but were familiar with Malachi’s, could lead one to think it was actually Malachi, when it was another impersonator after all.
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2007 not 2005.

And again your theory is impossible. Listen to Breaking News A cappella. On A cappella version you can clearly hear that it is only one singer, one voice singing. Those are the lead vocals without any background vocals, without instrumentation and effects. And that is the situation on all 12 songs. So you have to choose between Michael and the impersonator. It can't be both.
 
As with "All I Need", the leaked a cappella of "Breaking News" clearly showcases composite leads (fabricated lead vocal layers). If you cannot hear two singers in this, you clearly do have an auditory defect. Or you just don't care to take notice of the blendings and cuts.
 
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