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xam said:
Yes, I think that's the guy I was referring to. The whole thing (deceptive manipulation of the public through mass media) is a disgusting practice. So when falsehoods comes back to bite you, you shouldn't really complain. All in my opinion of course.
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You mustn’t base your opinions on speculations.
 
xam said:
MJ manipulated the media by feeding it BS stories about himself. No speculation here.
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So, what you're trying to say is that Michael manipulated the media by telling it [the media] bad/false things about himself??
 
xam said:
MJ manipulated the media by feeding it BS stories about himself. No speculation here.
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Oh, so it’s a fact now, all of a sudden? Name your sources, please.
 
@mjfanatic777 said:
I thought Michael did not tell the media anything. Only to leave him alone and give him privacy.
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I never bought the whole idea that MJ and Frank DiLeo spreaded fake news (as written by Taraborelli..?). Researching the sources of stories, they just never begin with them.
Did they like fake news? DiLeo might have liked the publicity somewhat and MJ just didn't want to bring more attention to stories so he let it go and remained silent as learned as a Jackson
 
xam said:
Michael Levine. Michael Jackson.
Be prepared to have your bubble pop.

It's been a fact for absolutely ages. It's old news.
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Yes, no, Michael outright denied it (Oprah special). You are obviously basing this wholly on Taraborrelli’s book.
 
Agonum said:
Yes, no, Michael outright denied it (Oprah special). You are obviously basing this wholly on Taraborrelli’s book.
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Do you feel comfortable speaking like that to me? The internet is full of information. It's been discussed and analysed to death. Levine came out publically many years ago to say just that. You are free to search the terms I offfered.

You speak as if Michael hasn't lied before. I can count so many lies. So many!
 
xam said:
Do you feel comfortable speaking like that to me? The internet is full of information. It's been discussed and analysed to death. Levine came out publically many years ago to say just that. You are free to search the terms I offfered.
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There are a lot of possibilities, sides to a story. Like maybe Levine did do it, but without MJ's consent

Why would Michael be so incredibly mad about it if he did it himself..?

xam said:
You speak as if Michael hasn't lied before. I can count so many lies. So many!
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Again there might be different sides to a story
 
I think anyone who looks at any newspaper or even book and just takes it completely for fact is to blame for being deceived.

Even this Oprah interview, MJ sounds like he's putting on airs. Not lying, but that's just not him as his authentic self. He's, rehearsed. He's put his formal guards up around Oprah. And she is of course just so eager to try to get some hit views.
 
xam said:
Do you feel comfortable speaking like that to me? The internet is full of information. It's been discussed and analysed to death. Levine came out publically many years ago to say just that. You are free to search the terms I offfered.

You speak as if Michael hasn't lied before. I can count so many lies. So many!
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Pardon? Speak like what?

Discussing a matter at length does not make it any more or less true.

And we all lie. It would be inhuman not to.
 
michael’s own mother stated that those stories came from his team. she told his manager frank dileo, that he’s making him look like an idiot. brother jermaine reiterated this in his book.

there was a pro michael book called ‘michael jackson inc’, that was written by a fan and promoted on this very board many years ago. it focused on the business side, and featured interviews michael’s pr and attorney; michael leveine (sp?) and john branca. they both confirmed that those stories were planted, and that michael was inspired by p.t.barnum to create a mysterious image for himself.

the editor of ‘the national inquirer’ newspaper (which the photos first appeared in), said that frank dileo brought the photos to him. they were initially turned away because the picture quality was poor. so they went a reshot them. they given instructions to use the word ‘bizarre’ in the accompanying article.

the pepsi burns happened two years prior to to when those pictures were taken. why would he be receiving treatment so late? a patient also has to wear special flame resistant clothes when inside the chamber. michael was wearing regular clothes.. his story doesn’t add up.

the hospital that contained the remains of john merrick, confirmed that they did receive an offer from michael to buy them. they refused. the bones were not for sale.

michael’s mother katherine’s book may have been the first to address the truth behind those stories, however the first edition of ‘the magic and the madness’ went into greater detail. fans may dislike him, but author/biographer j randy taraborrelli was a trailblazer. so many questions that people have were already fully investigated decades earlier.

michael and most of his family believe that all publicity is good, and that it’s only bad when they stop talking about you. when those stories leaked, michael was in between projects and needed to keep his name out there. he knew how fickle audiences were, and there was a danger that they could flock to the ‘next big thing’. the aim was to be seen as interesting and mysterious. however, he ended up looking foolish

*edit* I posted a lot more, but for some reason it got lost.
 
There's nothing wrong with the crazy stories , y'all getting too worked up over it.

MJ was larger than life, the crazy stories helped him create this mysterious image. It's all part of the appeal.

MJ would not be the same and considered rather normal , he was unique.
 
83magic said:
the pepsi burns happened two years prior to to when those pictures were taken. why would he be receiving treatment so late? a patient also has to wear special flame resistant clothes when inside the chamber. michael was wearing regular clothes.. his story doesn’t add up.
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This was after his treatment! He donated the money from the Pepsi incident to the hospital and set up the Michael Jackson Burn Center for Children and they bought the oxygen chamber. The photos were him visiting when they got the equipment and he decided to check out how it worked

Again why would he be so mad about the oxygen chamber on Oprah and later mention it again in 'Tabloid Junkie' if he planted the stories himself? Makes no sense to me

83magic said:
michael and most of his family believe that all publicity is good, and that it’s only bad when they stop talking about you.
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Hmm I don't believe that tbh, they are actually very hesitant to counter stories to not attract more attention towards them, in fact that is one of the reasons Taj was frustrated with his family because he believes you must set the record straight concerning false stories
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
There's nothing wrong with the crazy stories , y'all getting too worked up over it.

MJ was larger than life, the crazy stories helped him create this mysterious image. It's all part of the appeal.

MJ would not be the same and considered rather normal , he was unique.
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michael was already interesting before then. he was already being compared to e.t and peter pan. however, that was genuine, and his music and talent was able to speak for itself. the image he created after that was beneath him, and was a distraction from his music. it set the tone for everything negative that came after. he created a monster that he couldn’t control. the oprah interview was done to repair the damage done seven years earlier.
 
Victorious said:
This was after his treatment! He donated the money from the Pepsi incident to the hospital and set up the Michael Jackson Burn Center for Children and they bought the oxygen chamber. The photos were him visiting when they got the equipment and he decided to check out how it worked

Again why would he be so mad about the oxygen chamber on Oprah and later mention it again in 'Tabloid Junkie' if he planted the stories himself? Makes no sense to me


Hmm I don't believe that tbh, they are actually very hesitant to counter stories to not attract more attention towards them, in fact that is one of the reasons Taj was frustrated with his family because he believes you must set the record straight concerning false stories
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I literally posted a video of marlon thanking the media for talking about his family.

michael’s mother katherine, brother jermaine, attorney john branca and public relations advisor (from the fan made book ‘michael jackson inc’), the editor of ‘the national inquirer’ newspaper, have all confirmed that the story came from michael’s team.

michael may have seemed upset about it (not enough to counter the claims in his autobiography, or even sue) because he didn’t get the reaction he wanted, and it affected his reputation and career in a negative way. he wasn’t seen as mysterious. he was seen as a joke. it was no longer about the music anymore.

it’s okay to admit that he was sometimes manipulative and partly responsible for his own demise. he’s not the perpetual victim that fans want him to be.
 
Victorious said:
There are a lot of possibilities, sides to a story. Like maybe Levine did do it, but without MJ's consent

Why would Michael be so incredibly mad about it if he did it himself..?


Again there might be different sides to a story
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I have no rational argument for this,but I simply feel like he's lying. The way he uses his words,his tone,his facial gestures,the way he gestures with his hands..
Plus,adding the "don't judge anybody unless you've talked to them" out of nowhere..the tehnique of adding what seems to be a (relatively) general rule/truth out of nowhere,just because it seems to somewhat fit the context + impulsively stating that "otherwise it's a lie" afterwards..is he playing stupid,by trying to think in black and white terms for the camera or anything?
So obvious that he's trying to hide a lie in his speech..at least in my view.
Another argument would be that he's simply camera shy and terribly anxious when speaking in public,but we know that's never been the case for Michael Jackson..
 
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Agonum said:
Well, not really. He’s great at exaggerating things. Not that good at providing sources for his claims.
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Certain sources (about this information) must remain confidential due to the nature of these sources' employment in the record industry, as John Randy Taraborrelli states in his book.

But the author did provide some sources for this information (about Michael Jackson's publicity stunts, feeding the media/press with stories about him during that period, etc).

For example:

- Frank DiLeo's meeting with John Randy Taraborrelli's private investigator and researcher Cathy Griffin in 1990 (October)

- John Randy Taraborrelli's interview with Jack Richardson in 1990 (October)

- John Randy Taraborrelli's interview with Charles Montgomery in 1991 (January)

- John Randy Taraborrelli's interview with Frank DiLeo in 1995 (August)

And it would have been extremely risky for John Randy Taraborrelli to write untrue things about Michael Jackson and Frank DiLeo considering that they could have very easily sued him.
 
Agonum said:
You are calling Michael a pathological liar, is that it?
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Not necessarily though,nope. (I've mentioned the pathological lying thingy just as a general fact,more than anything,really).
I am no psychiatrist and I never had the chance to sit down,talk to him,get to know the man behind the persona,observe his real/natural behaviour etc,none of that,not at all,unfortunately.
But it's clear as day that he had developed an unhealthy habit of lying about anything and everything really,starting with his early Motown days,I must mention(I remember reading about the first time he may have ever lied for the public in his life,and that was lying about him being 8 years of age, when he actually was around 11,if I'm not mistaken. He initially thought that it would be rather "cruel" and/or "unfair" to try to deceive the public like that,but it eventually got to him and it became a mechanism that he'd learned while witnessing the ruthless behaviour of the ones around him,I guess.)
So no,considering that his first reaction,as a child,was to question the reason behind telling such a lie,on such a large scale (though he did as the adults told him to,eventually) would make it pretty clear that he may have never been a pathological liar.
More like a somewhat,to say the least,manipulative individual,all things considered.
So a pathological liar?No,not sure at least.
Manipulative individual,though? Maybe,as that's a different story,I suppose.
(Correct me if I'm wrong,please)
 
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Agonum said:
Pardon? Speak like what?
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Speak with assumptions about me getting the info from Taraborelli's book.
Agonum said:
Discussing a matter at length does not make it any more or less true.
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So what is your proposed solution? MJ = truth-teller. Everyone else = liar? Cognitive dissonance?
Agonum said:
And we all lie. It would be inhuman not to.
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A man who has conjured up falsehoods about his life and fed them to the press has no business complaining about the press conjuring up falsehoods about his life and feeding them to the masses.
 
I don't consider any of it manipulative, because none of it was any of our business anyway.

Are we prying so hard into Bruno Mars life? Billy Mays? George Foreman?

MJ made products, he made art. The parasocial aspect of celebrity is just maddening. People insist on idolatry, whether they want it or not.

If MJ wanted to play with the tabloids, so what? Again. It did not make him look like a "fool", to give the people who make up stories about him, made up stories. If he did or didn't do it.

And I don't approve of lying. But if people are gonna scream for you, insist they know you, become obsessed with you, why should you have to carry on the normal half while the common folk get to make things as abnormal as possible?
 
83magic said:
I literally posted a video of marlon thanking the media for talking about his family.
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That's true but that's also just Marlon playing it cool since he probably didn't know what MJ was up to himself; he is also not fighting the skin bleaching rumour which is a pretty serious matter.
Anyway my total experience is that the family did/do not like to add more attention to stories and hoping they would fly over

83magic said:
michael may have seemed upset about it (not enough to counter the claims in his autobiography, or even sue) because he didn’t get the reaction he wanted, and it affected his reputation and career in a negative way. he wasn’t seen as mysterious. he was seen as a joke. it was no longer about the music anymore.
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I think he mainly wanted attention to go the causes (Elephant Man, the Burn Centre) and not to stupid stories attached to him. At first he migt not have cared so much but later, when the silent treatment didn't work and the rumours got more personal he had to set the record straight (Oprah)

83magic said:
it’s okay to admit that he was sometimes manipulative and partly responsible for his own demise. he’s not the perpetual victim that fans want him to be.
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I am by far someone who sees MJ as a perpetual victim lol, but I think a lot of this just isn't correct. Or it at least has different sides to it. It's nice to debat about it!
 
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