Motown era MJ

[Salami]

So from what I’ve seen the Motown solo MJ albums seem to get a bad rep but does anyone else think these have some great hidden gems? The 4 solo albums aren’t all that bad (Music & Me is easily the worst) and I’ve been playing them a lot the last few weeks - some great songs on there like

Maria
We’ve Got Forever
Take Me Back
Just A Little Bit of You
You Can Cry On My Shoulder

And probably in my top 20 MJ tracks, One Day In Your Life. I think his voice in the Forever, Michael era is maybe my favourite across his career.
Any standouts for you?

 

[Agonum]

Where do you get a fourth album from?

Edit: Lol. I forgot about Ben!

 

[Agonum]

[…] I think his voice in the Dear Michael era is maybe my favourite across his career.
Any standouts for you?

Forever, Michael

 

[Agonum]

[…] (Music & Me is easily the worst) […]

Why?

I agree though. I would probably rate them
1. Forever, Michael
2. Got to Be There
3. Music & Me
4. Ben
But I wouldn’t say either one of them is “easily” the worst.

Edit: Added GtBT.

 

[Salami]

Forever, Michael

Edited. I think it’s because I also love that song!

 

[Salami]

Why?

I agree though. I would probably rate them
1. Forever, Michael
2. Ben
3. Music & Me
But I wouldn’t say either one of them is “easily” the worst.

I think when looking over all the songs across the four, only one from Music & Me ranks high and that’s the title track. The other songs aren’t bad, but the rest of these albums have standout tracks. Music & Me just doesn’t.

 

[Agonum]

Oh. To me, M&M’s standout tracks would be With a Child’s Heart, All the Things You Are, Doggin’ Around, Too Young, Happy, Up Again, Morning Glow and the title track. That’s quite a few standouts!

Euphoria is solid. The only song I’m lukewarm about would be Johnny Raven.

 

[Agonum]

Thinking about it some more, I just may rank Music & Me above Got to Be There.

 

[Salami]

See to me Euphoria and Up Again are a bit annoying. They are probably the only songs of his I would ever describe as that. Morning Glow is a nice song though.

 

[Agonum]

Up Again is beautiful. It’s a case study in sublime arrangement.

 

[Maxym]

So from what I’ve seen the Motown solo MJ albums seem to get a bad rep but does anyone else think these have some great hidden gems? The 4 solo albums aren’t all that bad ....

Yeah, they're a very different thing to MJ's later solo career, but they're all really great and MJ has really great vocal performances/vocal interpretations during that era. Definitely worth including in "collection/library".

For me Music And Me is the best, but all have good songs on them.
The weakest album for me is Ben, I find it's made of more slow songs that have less "body" than the other albums.
Then also Farewell My Summer Love (album/compilation, both 1973 and 1984 mixes) shouldn't be neglected.
(Also add Looking Back To Yesterday (compilation), Little Christmas Tree (song) and 25 Miles (song)/The Original Soul Of Michael Jackson (compilation), and you pretty much have complete MJ's Motown released solo career (almost).)

Also, just thinking at the moment: Maybe it's just an impression right now, maybe it's random, but maybe I find MJ's Motown solo lyrics better "built" than many J5 songs... in the sense that some J5 songs feel like love random love songs, so random that some of them get me thinking "no wait, you can't say this after that" ... And I don't remember such songs, or less of them, in MJ's solo discography ... well, may Dear Michael ...)

 

[Salami]

Yeah, they're a very different thing to MJ's later solo career, but they're all really great and MJ has really great vocal performances/vocal interpretations during that era. Definitely worth including in "collection/library".

For me Music And Me is the best, but all have good songs on them.
The weakest album for me is Ben, I find it's made of more slow songs that have less "body" than the other albums.
Then also Farewell My Summer Love (album/compilation, both 1973 and 1984 mixes) shouldn't be neglected.
(Also add Looking Back To Yesterday (compilation), Little Christmas Tree (song) and 25 Miles (song)/The Original Soul Of Michael Jackson (compilation), and you pretty much have complete MJ's Motown released solo career (almost).)

Also, just thinking at the moment: Maybe it's just an impression right now, maybe it's random, but maybe I find MJ's Motown solo lyrics better "built" than many J5 songs... in the sense that some J5 songs feel like love random love songs, so random that some of them get me thinking "no wait, you can't say this after that" ... And I don't remember such songs, or less of them, in MJ's solo discography ... well, may Dear Michael ...)

Farewell My Summer Love and Melodie are two of my favourite MJ songs, so overlooked.

 

[filmandmusic]

For me Got to be there is as good as his adult solo albums. I’d probably rank it 3rd after thriller and dangerous.
Not one of these 4 albums is weak imo, more like the opposite.

I’d rate most of the solo Motown songs 4/5 or more. My favorite vocal performance is too young, music and me and one day in your life. Too young really is pure magic, great arrangement as well.

Most of the Motown songs have really great lyrics and Michael sings them so delicately and sweet it is irresistible for me. Spontaneously thinking about “in our small way”, this is such an uplifting song, it touches me deeply.

You’ve got a friend is another highlight. I believe every word he says, his version is up there with all the great ones like Carole King and James Taylor

 

[83magic]

I just so happened to be listening to ‘music & me’ a couple of days ago. I was in the mood for something calming. this album has always been one of my favourite Motown solo ones. I alternate between this and ‘got to be there’ for the top position.

‘music & me’ was generally more ballad focused, with the exception of my personal favourite; ‘euphoria’ for the most part, the lyrics were tailored to fit michael’s personality. they’re sensitive and wise beyond their years. they immortalised him. if he were to perform those songs as an adult, they’d still be relevant.

‘morning glow’ introduced his love for nature. yet it could also be a metaphor for his transitional vocals that were evident on a few songs. I think Michael sang with the most gentle control on this album.

even the covers were carefully selected, arranged, and sung in such a way that they became the definitive versions (‘with a child’s heart’, ‘happy’ and ‘up again’).

I think this album along with ‘going places’, is his most underrated in his entire catalogue.

 

[Agonum]

I think [Music and Me] along with ‘going places’, is his most underrated in his entire catalogue.

It is not “underrated”, but rather deserving of more attention. From people who are familiar with the album, I’ve heard nothing but praise.

 

[83magic]

It is not “underrated”, but rather deserving of more attention. From people who are familiar with the album, I’ve heard nothing but praise.

I’ve personally seen both albums labelled the worst in their respective categories, by fans and critics alike. even on this very board..

 

[Agonum]

I’ve personally seen both albums labelled the worst in their respective categories, by fans and critics alike. even on this very board..

Ridiculous! I would very much like to see a critic argue for Music and Me being “the worst Michael Jackson album”. Oh boy, that’s a steep hill to climb! I have a hard time seeing their reputation unscathed by such a claim.

As for the fans, well… I’ll be on the lookout for such hot takes. I cannot remember having seen them on this board?

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I’ve personally seen both albums labelled the worst in their respective categories, by fans and critics alike. even on this very board..

The fans would have to listen to them for them to be labeled.

 

[83magic]

Ridiculous! I would very much like to see a critic argue for Music and Me being “the worst Michael Jackson album”. Oh boy, that’s a steep hill to climb! I have a hard time seeing their reputation unscathed by such a claim.

As for the fans, well… I’ll be on the lookout for such hot takes. I cannot remember having seen them on this board?

Michael Jackson - Music & Me Album Reviews, Songs & More | AllMusic

Discover Music & Me by Michael Jackson released in 1973. Find album reviews, track lists, credits, awards and more at AllMusic.

www.allmusic.com

Michael Jackson’s ‘Music & Me’ Turns 50 | Read the Anniversary Tribute

Jackson’s third studio album found him transitioning from wunderkind with the sweet angelic voice to a child struggling with the onset of puberty.

albumism.com

I hope these links work. I haven’t quite learned how to post them.. the second review described ‘euphoria’ as forgettable, and compared it to Sesame Street. that same comparison was made with the song ‘going places’ in another review. the very first post in this thread listed it as the least favourite. many people feel this way, and that’s fine. we all have our own opinions. I feel completely different of course..

 

[Agonum]

Those so called reviews gets my blood boiling. How anyone could describe Michael’s vocals on that album as uninspired, I will never understand.

Oh, I forgot about the first post. Perhaps a defense mechanism of mine.

 

[filmandmusic]

Those so called reviews gets my blood boiling. How anyone could describe Michael’s vocals on that album as uninspired, I will never understand.

Oh, I forgot about the first post. Perhaps a defense mechanism of mine.

I didn’t read the reviews and if that is what is in them I guess I don’t need to!
This is a confirmation that some people have mud in their ears or they simply refused to listen to the album in the first place.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I didn’t read the reviews and if that is what is in them I guess I don’t need to!
This is a confirmation that some people have mud in their ears or they simply refused to listen to the album in the first place.

I read both and think they are OK. The album is described as uneven and uninspired. The basic points being made are
1 - the album isn't quite worthy of Michael's talents
2 - it's not surprising that Michael started to feel restricted at Motown at this time
3 - the album feels somewhat unfocussed

The first, short, review gives the album 3 stars which seems fair to me.

The longer review says this:
"While there are moments of pure pop joy and perhaps even a glimpse of the creative trajectory Jackson was destined for ..."

Andy Healy wrote that second, longer, review. He's a huge fan of Michael's work and has written loads of great stuff about Michael's adult solo work. Clearly, he's lukewarm about this album but I don't see that as a problem.

 

[filmandmusic]

@zinniabooklover

I'm more interested in reviews written the time it was released. Most recent reviews only compare it with what Michael would become later in his career. Everything he ever did gets compared to thriller which makes it seem that every album pre and post thriller simply isn't worth your time. For contemporary reviewers they first listen to Thriller and then the rest of his back catalogue, it is not fair for each album individually.

Point 1: why would the album be not worth Michael's talents? It features some of his very best Motown songs imo
Point 2: feeling restricted at Motown? I don't believe it he was 14/15 years old... He was not ready yet to write and produce songs on his own.

If the album had been a commercial success the album would have received favorable reviews, especially by contemporary reviewers. How often do they listen to an album anyway to come to a conclusion? It's like wine you have to let it grow on you...

 

[zinniabooklover]

@zinniabooklover

I'm more interested in reviews written the time it was released.

Fair enough. I like reading retrospective reviews, they can be interesting.

Most recent reviews only compare it with what Michael would become later in his career. Everything he ever did gets compared to thriller which makes it seem that every album pre and post thriller simply isn't worth your time. For contemporary reviewers they first listen to Thriller and then the rest of his back catalogue, it is not fair for each album individually.

Tbf, Andy Healy isn't comparing M&M to Thriller. He's remembering the album 45 years after its release and trying to say, hey people! Michael Jackson isn't all about Thriller, there is more to him than that. He's making the point that Michael already had a successful solo career.

Point 1: why would the album be not worth Michael's talents? It features some of his very best Motown songs imo

He's saying the album is uneven and I agree. He praises the songs he thinks are good but there are others he's not so keen on.

"Whilst Jackson does his best with the material at hand, his talents deserved better."

Point 2: feeling restricted at Motown? I don't believe it he was 14/15 years old... He was not ready yet to write and produce songs on his own.

I can't remember the timeline on this but wasn't Michael already feeling a bit frustrated with Motown even by the age of 14/15? Isn't there something about it in Moonwalk? I don't think the frustration has to be just about songwriting. Was it about how he performed the songs when he was recording, he wanted more freedom on that? I mean, I think he did get that freedom but maybe that was just symptomatic of other, more general, frustrations.

If the album had been a commercial success the album would have received favorable reviews, especially by contemporary reviewers.

It's usually the other way around, though. Album gets reviewed, then it either gets the sales or it doesn't. People don't usually go back and review something once it's up and running. They're onto the next new release.

How often do they listen to an album anyway to come to a conclusion?

Most people agree that a fundamental problem with reviewing anything lies in the fact that you get one shot. You review the film/album/novel when it's newly released and that's it. You don't get to revisit it unless you do a retrospective review - which is what Andy Healy is doing here. I have no idea if it would work better to review albums a month after they get released, for example. But that's not how it works. It's not a perfect system, that's for sure.

It's like wine you have to let it grow on you...

I can't speak for Andy Healy, obviously. He's a big Michael fan and, presumably, is familiar with M&M and has listened to it more than once, I would imagine. If he's unenthusiastic about some of the songs that doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I'm not too keen on some of those songs myself.

 

[DuranDuran]

I'm more interested in reviews written the time it was released. Most recent reviews only compare it with what Michael would become later in his career.

If you're looking at mainstream rock critics, then of course they're probably not going to give the same importance to 1970s R&B albums that they would give to Pink Floyd or David Bowie, especially disco era ones. They tend to consider R&B a singles genre, not an album genre. They're going to write hundreds of articles about the Fleetwood Mac Rumours behind the scenes soap opera and even artists who were commercially not that popular like Lou Reed, The Smiths, & Iggy Pop over Teddy Pendergrass, Funkadelic, or The Bar-Kays.

Those later Jackson 5 & solo Mike records on Motown didn't get as much crossover Top 40 airplay in the USA as the early ones, but they did get R&B airplay. So you would have to look for magazines that focused on R&B and/or the Black audience. And that isn't Rolling Stone/Creem/Spin etc. The Soul Train TV show, the BET network, and magazines like Ebony & Black Stars existed for a reason, to give an outlet to entertainers the mainstream media mostly ignored. When David Bowie goes on MTV and asks why they don't play many videos by Black artists and CBS Records has to threaten to remove their other acts like Journey & Bruce Srpingsteen to get them to put Billie Jean in rotation, that's tells you about the USA mainstream media. Even the ones that were mainstream popular like Lionel Richie or Whitney Houston did not get the same amount of coverage in mainstream magazines & media as Bon Jovi, Madonna, or Sting. I'm pretty sure that today, you'll more likely to see coverage about U2 albums from the 1980s than Lionel Richie's or Prince's. It's like when they make it seem like grunge in the 1990s was this big thing that made all other types of music obsolete when Garth Brooks outsold all of the grunge bands and was popular longer than those acts. But he isn't written about like Nirvana.

 

[filmandmusic]

@zinniabooklover

I’m still NOT reading his review but I take your word he is a levelheaded fan and not someone like me who sometimes is easily butt hurt

I’m so,thick it took me 30 seconds to realize M&M is music and me.

 

[filmandmusic]

According to wikipedia Michael wanted self written songs on Music and Me but I do not believe he had any as early as 1973.
I think 6 of the 10 tracks on M&M are wonderful, 2 are decent and 2 I don’t care much for. But especially his cover songs on the album are bang on the spot. How can anyone listen to with a child’s heart for example and say it is vocally not well sung? How can you take a reviewer that says this seriously?

 

[zinniabooklover]

If you're looking at mainstream rock critics, then of course they're probably not going to give the same importance to 1970s R&B albums that they would give to Pink Floyd or David Bowie, especially disco era ones. They tend to consider R&B a singles genre, not an album genre.

Exactly so. M&M might not even have been reviewed by the British music press back in the day. If it was, it would most likely be a tiny paragraph. It might have got better coverage in Blues & Soul magazine. No idea what coverage it got in the US. It would depend on what else was released that same week.

It's like when they make it seem like grunge in the 1990s was this big thing that made all other types of music obsolete

This annoys me so much. I was there. It was popular, yeah. But not as big as they like to make out. It did not obliterate everything in its path. It just didn't.

when Garth Brooks outsold all of the grunge bands and was popular longer than those acts.

Which I think is fab. Garth is not my guy but he was the business back then, he really was.

But he isn't written about like Nirvana.

I love rock music but I get annoyed the way it dominates the music conversation.

 

[zinniabooklover]

According to wikipedia Michael wanted self written songs on Music and Me but I do not believe he had any as early as 1973.
I think 6 of the 10 tracks on M&M are wonderful, 2 are decent and 2 I don’t care much for. But especially his cover songs on the album are bang on the spot. How can anyone listen to with a child’s heart for example and say it is vocally not well sung? How can you take a reviewer that says this seriously?

Read the review, you will see that he has good things to say about With A Child's Heart.

 

[zinniabooklover]

[...] but I take your word he is a levelheaded fan and not someone like me who sometimes is easily butt hurt

He is. He did the mj101 series. Good stuff. Tbh, I haven't read loads of his writing bc I hate reading stuff onscreen and I get distracted by the photos and beautiful layouts that he does. He's a graphic designer and he does the ebooks just like a hard copy book. They are beautifully designed, imo, but can be a bit of a faff to read. You have to whack up the text size.

But here is his commentary on ODIYL:

"Recorded in 1974, “One Day In Your Life” sees 16 year old Michael tackling more lyrically mature material. Built around a lyrical theme of reflection and missing out on love, Michael allows the emotion of the song to swell in his vocal delivery. The way he climbs the notes “you’ll remember me some how / though you don’t need me now / I will stay in your heart” strikes a chord with the listener, hooks you in and doesn’t let go. Musically the song is more easy listening pop than soul or R&B, and demonstrates how Michael’s voice could tackle various genres with ease. The timelessness of the track was evident when Motown re-released the song as a single 7 years later in 1981 to capitalise on the success Michael was enjoying with Off The Wall. It was a move that worked, earning Michael a UK #1 hit, his first of many. To this day the song remains potent with its warm arrangement, beautiful melody and a vocal delivery that reminds you what it means to connect to a song."

I’m so,thick it took me 30 seconds to realize M&M is music and me.