My ambivalent feeling about the leaks

Sarah_MJ

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If this thread should be integrated in the leak discussion thread, please put it there - I just felt that this is a kind of extra topic.
When the songs leaked last week, I first felt "good" about it in the sense of finally hearing them/hearing something I didn't know before. I liked what I heard and I even had tears in my eyes hearing RWITY the first time. Now some days have passed and I feel different about it. To explain my shift, I would like to tell you about hearing OMC the first time. I grew up in German countryside and was a teenager when Number Ones came out. My mother drove to the store in the nearest city on release day of Number Ones - I was really thankful when she gave the CD to me in the evening. I took it and closed the door of my room, sat in front of my CD player, put it in and skipped directly to OMC. There were no disctractions. The strings started and I immediately fell in love with the song from the very first second. It was overwhelming. Because of my age, most new MJ songs came out when I was a child and I got to know them incidently. This was the first time I consciously enjoyed hearing a brand new MJ track. When Michael started singing, I was in heaven. I was completely blown away by his voice and his soul in the song. The muggles outside don't know OMC, but to me it will always be a special song, alone because of that intense moment. I learned that hearing a new MJ song the first time is something that happens only once. And this first magic is different to the magic I might feel listening to a song regularly later.

Now when the leaks came out, I took some time, put on headphones, tried to put all distractions aside, and listened. And I was also fascinated, but the feeling wasn't the same. I learned about the tracks from a fellow fan who sent me a YouTube link to one of the leaks and I couldn't focus myself on a perfectly mixed and finished song, but I kind of "consumed" the leaks. I like them, but I also felt "bad", because I assume leaks were a catastrophe to Michael. I assume, he always wanted us to get perfect quality. He wanted us to get a finished product of only the best of the best that he and everybody on his team put in. I think he wanted us to be blown away. I assume he wouldn't have wanted that we hear unfinished songs in low quality. Comparing my leak experience to my OMC experience, it was a complete different situation. I was disctracted by the comment sections, I was learning about the songs in the middle of the day, I didn't ceremonially buy them somewhere and made out time to sit down and do nothing else but listening and embracing the ecstasy of the first time hearing a new MJ song.

Please don't understand me in the sense of blaming someone of something. I am not to judge whether it was "right" or "wrong" leaking songs, I also am not talking about the estate here. I am completely dissatisfied with the estate's behavior towards us and its non-communication and non-intuition with us. But this is not my topic here. I am also not judging anyone's decision to hear or not to hear leaked music. It's just that I think I might rather stay with officially released music in future, because leaks are such an undignified way to introduce Michael's work to us. It would have been so much more magical to have an album or at least a single in hands and celebrating that. Which is why I hope the estate is going to overthink its strategy relating to protecting Michael's legacy so that in future this doesn't happen anymore. But I am not very hopeful that they will learn anything from this.

Anyone feeling that shift of emotions as well?
 
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One thing to keep in mind is that leaks like this have been happening since the early 00s, which did piss MJ off if the song was new, but for a lot of tracks he didn't plan on finishing it wasn't a big deal. Most of the early Bryan Loren tracks seemed to have been leaked in spite when the 2001 special edition with most of his finished songs fell through (his camp leaked Work That Body the following year). Michael himself also released unfinished songs he didn't care about anymore, such as In the Back. Using this logic, as long as MJ isn't actively working on the tracks I wouldn't think it that big of a deal, and considering he's dead, well... So yeah, if someone leaked say Ghost of Another Lover in 2009 when he was reworking it, then that would be a bit of an issue using this logic. But if in 2009 MJ gave it the In the Back treatment, it wouldn't matter to him much. Things like Bombay Nights and Dream Girl are nonstarters though, people shouldn't even gatekeep those to begin with.
 
I understand - my ambivalent feeling does however not only involve respect for Michael's assumed wishes (which we can in the end only speculate on in many cases, but which I wish to respect also posthumously). It's also that the experience of ceremony and magic is to me so much different when I buy a fully finished new song compared to hearing a leak on YouTube. However, my OMC experience might stay singular also because there will never be a new MJ song anymore, only maybe the publishing of unreleased material. So I also know that that time is over and I guess the leaks have thus also awoken some of my pain about that.
 
I never thought I'd experience a moment like when I first heard the leak of "We've Had Enough" before the release of The Ultimate Collection. It was utterly amazing to hear the ending of that song, as I had thought we would never hear MJ sing that strong again after hearing Invincible.

But listening to "Remember What I Told You" brought me right back to those days of the mid 00's when leaks meant something and they felt like a true moment in time. Hearing something that really gets you "up" and excited and giddy in the moment you hear it really is a shared connection between you and the artist.

MJ wouldn't have been happy that exclusive tracks from an expensive 5 disc boxset had been leaked, but at the end of the day he is gone now for 16 years. I'm sure that wherever he is, he can appreciate that moments like I encountered when I heard those 90 seconds of music can still happen 16 years after his passing, and 20+ years since the first time I heard "State of Shock" with Freddie Mercury and almost died. For a piece of music to re-establish such a connection that I had thought could never be revisited again was pure magic.

So while I understand how some people can feel about leaks, it can also bring such a positive energy - which is always MJ's intention when it comes to his art.
 
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What exactly leaked?
Apparently you missed quite a bit 🤣

As for the leaked tracks, Michael isn't here it's pretty much all we have left. To me, it's more respectful to release them as they are rather than butchering them in to something they were never meant to be (or faking them completely).

I'm old enough that I remember the official release day of everything from Bad onwards and I miss the feeling of buying the CD and listening for the first time. I think RWITY almost bought me right back to those earlier release days ❤️
 
Michael himself also released unfinished songs he didn't care about anymore, such as In the Back.
Michael Jackson released in 2004 the 'In The Back' unfinished song for a reason.

He apparently wanted to show (with that specific song and its lyrics) how Sony Music/Tommy Mottola treated him during those years (under-promotion of the 'Invincible' album, Sony Music/Tommy Mottola wanting his valuable 50 per cent share in their joint Sony/ATV Music Publishing Catalog, and so on).
 
Michael Jackson released in 2004 the 'In The Back' unfinished song for a reason.

He apparently wanted to show (with that specific song and its lyrics) how Sony Music/Tommy Mottola treated him during those years (under-promotion of the 'Invincible' album, Sony Music/Tommy Mottola wanting his valuable 50% share in their joint music Sony/ATV Music Publishing Catalog, and so on).
Do you have a source for that?
 
Michael Jackson released in 2004 the 'In The Back' unfinished song for a reason.

He apparently wanted to show (with that specific song and its lyrics) how Sony Music/Tommy Mottola treated him during those years (under-promotion of the 'Invincible' album, Sony Music/Tommy Mottola wanting his valuable 50 per cent share in their joint Sony/ATV Music Publishing Catalog, and so on).
Does everything have to be related to a conspiracy theory now?
 
Were you there?
Does everything have to be related to a conspiracy theory now?
- Treatment of Sony Music/Tommy Mottola towards Michael Jackson during those years

- Michael Jackson's speech at the 2002 Killer Thriller Party where he spoke out against Sony Music/Tommy Mottola

- Purpose of releasing his 'The Ultimate Collection' 2004 box set (so as to end his contract with Sony Music)

- 'In The Back' was included on that box set

- Lyrics of the 'In The Back' song

One has to simply connect the dots.
 
- Treatment of Sony Music/Tommy Mottola towards Michael Jackson during those years

- Michael Jackson's speech at the 2002 Killer Thriller Party where he spoke out against Sony Music/Tommy Mottola

- Purpose of releasing his 'The Ultimate Collection' 2004 box set (so as to end his contract with Sony Music)

- 'In The Back' was included on that box set

- Lyrics of the 'In The Back' song

One has to simply connect the dots.
No thanks.
 
What exactly leaked?
Good morning, would you like a cup of coffee and some cookies? Seems like you slept for a long time 🫡😁.

And on topic:

I already wrote that several times, so copy paste:

I think the main reason why Michael didn't want people to listen to unfinished material is because most people judge and say "XY is a bad track" even though it's just the beginning of a long journey.... it's like drawing. First you have an idea, you sketch it, you change lines, you try which colours match best etc. and then you have the finished result. It's a process and the process shouldn't be judged, but be seen as exploring possibilities.

When you are aware of that, imo it's not a problem to listen to the leaks. We have to take what we can get 🤷
 
- Treatment of Sony Music/Tommy Mottola towards Michael Jackson during those years

- Michael Jackson's speech at the 2002 Killer Thriller Party where he spoke out against Sony Music/Tommy Mottola

- Purpose of releasing his 'The Ultimate Collection' 2004 box set (so as to end his contract with Sony Music)

- 'In The Back' was included on that box set

- Lyrics of the 'In The Back' song

One has to simply connect the dots.
You're a funny guy.
 
I got Dangerous for Christmas like a month after release. Got HIStory, Invincible, Michael and Xscape all on launch day, and did as you describe. Yeah, there's nothing like listening to a song for the first time.

But then, something happened, and now I couldn't care less about new MJ stuff. It's almost guaranteed to be fake, and even if it isn't, it's going to be autotuned and compressed and remixed and generally sound like garbage.

The anticipation and satisfaction has all been lost. I literally can't even be bothered to click a link any more.
 
- Treatment of Sony Music/Tommy Mottola towards Michael Jackson during those years

- Michael Jackson's speech at the 2002 Killer Thriller Party where he spoke out against Sony Music/Tommy Mottola

- Purpose of releasing his 'The Ultimate Collection' 2004 box set (so as to end his contract with Sony Music)

- 'In The Back' was included on that box set

- Lyrics of the 'In The Back' song

One has to simply connect the dots.
Also noted is the inclusion of "I want you back" and "Wanna be where you are" indicating that Michael was hinting at a Sony reunion.
 
I got Dangerous for Christmas like a month after release. Got HIStory, Invincible, Michael and Xscape all on launch day, and did as you describe. Yeah, there's nothing like listening to a song for the first time.

But then, something happened, and now I couldn't care less about new MJ stuff. It's almost guaranteed to be fake, and even if it isn't, it's going to be autotuned and compressed and remixed and generally sound like garbage.

The anticipation and satisfaction has all been lost. I literally can't even be bothered to click a link any more.
I can completely get this. The last year or so was completely "meh" to me, because I'd listen to something here and I'd be like "that's cool" and I'd head into a Discord server and see "Oh X added nuclear reverb, changed the EQ and added birds from Liberian Girl" or something and I would just immediately get put off. Throwin Your Life Away and Streetwalker '87 really put me off everyone in leaking circles because of how annoying people were with leaking them in various qualities.
 
If this thread should be integrated in the leak discussion thread, please put it there - I just felt that this is a kind of extra topic.
When the songs leaked last week, I first felt "good" about it in the sense of finally hearing them/hearing something I didn't know before. I liked what I heard and I even had tears in my eyes hearing RWITY the first time. Now some days have passed and I feel different about it. To explain my shift, I would like to tell you about hearing OMC the first time. I grew up in German countryside and was a teenager when Number Ones came out. My mother drove to the store in the nearest city on release day of Number Ones - I was really thankful when she gave the CD to me in the evening. I took it and closed the door of my room, sat in front of my CD player, put it in and skipped directly to OMC. There were no disctractions. The strings started and I immediately fell in love with the song from the very first second. It was overwhelming. Because of my age, most new MJ songs came out when I was a child and I got to know them incidently. This was the first time I consciously enjoyed hearing a brand new MJ track. When Michael started singing, I was in heaven. I was completely blown away by his voice and his soul in the song. The muggles outside don't know OMC, but to me it will always be a special song, alone because of that intense moment. I learned that hearing a new MJ song the first time is something that happens only once. And this first magic is different to the magic I might feel listening to a song regularly later.

Now when the leaks came out, I took some time, put on headphones, tried to put all distractions aside, and listened. And I was also fascinated, but the feeling wasn't the same. I learned about the tracks from a fellow fan who sent me a YouTube link to one of the leaks and I couldn't focus myself on a perfectly mixed and finished song, but I kind of "consumed" the leaks. I like them, but I also felt "bad", because I assume leaks were a catastrophe to Michael. I assume, he always wanted us to get perfect quality. He wanted us to get a finished product of only the best of the best that he and everybody on his team put in. I think he wanted us to be blown away. I assume he wouldn't have wanted that we hear unfinished songs in low quality. Comparing my leak experience to my OMC experience, it was a complete different situation. I was disctracted by the comment sections, I was learning about the songs in the middle of the day, I didn't ceremonially buy them somewhere and made out time to sit down and do nothing else but listening and embracing the ecstasy of the first time hearing a new MJ song.

Please don't understand me in the sense of blaming someone of something. I am not to judge whether it was "right" or "wrong" leaking songs, I also am not talking about the estate here. I am completely dissatisfied with the estate's behavior towards us and its non-communication and non-intuition with us. But this is not my topic here. I am also not judging anyone's decision to hear or not to hear leaked music. It's just that I think I might rather stay with officially released music in future, because leaks are such an undignified way to introduce Michael's work to us. It would have been so much more magical to have an album or at least a single in hands and celebrating that. Which is why I hope the estate is going to overthink its strategy relating to protecting Michael's legacy so that in future this doesn't happen anymore. But I am not very hopeful that they will learn anything from this.

Anyone feeling that shift of emotions as well?
Thank you for this post Sarah. I really feel you on this one and completely agree with you. I made a video about some of my thoughts on the leaks last week and have pretty much the same ambivalence towards it all.
If this thread should be integrated in the leak discussion thread, please put it there - I just felt that this is a kind of extra topic.
When the songs leaked last week, I first felt "good" about it in the sense of finally hearing them/hearing something I didn't know before. I liked what I heard and I even had tears in my eyes hearing RWITY the first time. Now some days have passed and I feel different about it. To explain my shift, I would like to tell you about hearing OMC the first time. I grew up in German countryside and was a teenager when Number Ones came out. My mother drove to the store in the nearest city on release day of Number Ones - I was really thankful when she gave the CD to me in the evening. I took it and closed the door of my room, sat in front of my CD player, put it in and skipped directly to OMC. There were no disctractions. The strings started and I immediately fell in love with the song from the very first second. It was overwhelming. Because of my age, most new MJ songs came out when I was a child and I got to know them incidently. This was the first time I consciously enjoyed hearing a brand new MJ track. When Michael started singing, I was in heaven. I was completely blown away by his voice and his soul in the song. The muggles outside don't know OMC, but to me it will always be a special song, alone because of that intense moment. I learned that hearing a new MJ song the first time is something that happens only once. And this first magic is different to the magic I might feel listening to a song regularly later.

Now when the leaks came out, I took some time, put on headphones, tried to put all distractions aside, and listened. And I was also fascinated, but the feeling wasn't the same. I learned about the tracks from a fellow fan who sent me a YouTube link to one of the leaks and I couldn't focus myself on a perfectly mixed and finished song, but I kind of "consumed" the leaks. I like them, but I also felt "bad", because I assume leaks were a catastrophe to Michael. I assume, he always wanted us to get perfect quality. He wanted us to get a finished product of only the best of the best that he and everybody on his team put in. I think he wanted us to be blown away. I assume he wouldn't have wanted that we hear unfinished songs in low quality. Comparing my leak experience to my OMC experience, it was a complete different situation. I was disctracted by the comment sections, I was learning about the songs in the middle of the day, I didn't ceremonially buy them somewhere and made out time to sit down and do nothing else but listening and embracing the ecstasy of the first time hearing a new MJ song.

Please don't understand me in the sense of blaming someone of something. I am not to judge whether it was "right" or "wrong" leaking songs, I also am not talking about the estate here. I am completely dissatisfied with the estate's behavior towards us and its non-communication and non-intuition with us. But this is not my topic here. I am also not judging anyone's decision to hear or not to hear leaked music. It's just that I think I might rather stay with officially released music in future, because leaks are such an undignified way to introduce Michael's work to us. It would have been so much more magical to have an album or at least a single in hands and celebrating that. Which is why I hope the estate is going to overthink its strategy relating to protecting Michael's legacy so that in future this doesn't happen anymore. But I am not very hopeful that they will learn anything from this.

Anyone feeling that shift of emotions as well?

Thank you for this post Sarah. I really feel you on this one massively and completely agree with you.

I made a video about some of my thoughts on the leaks last week and have pretty much the same ambivalence towards them as you.

I’ve tried to be as optimistic as possible, but I do feel the same as you. At lot of it just feels impersonal to me and I feel indifferent.

 
I understand - my ambivalent feeling does however not only involve respect for Michael's assumed wishes (which we can in the end only speculate on in many cases, but which I wish to respect also posthumously). It's also that the experience of ceremony and magic is to me so much different when I buy a fully finished new song compared to hearing a leak on YouTube. However, my OMC experience might stay singular also because there will never be a new MJ song anymore, only maybe the publishing of unreleased material. So I also know that that time is over and I guess the leaks have thus also awoken some of my pain about that.
You’re absolutely speaking my language. Being leaked and sort of scattered to the winds they lose their magical value, impact and almost become secondary to the actual act of leaking.

Those leaks are now just out there in the world floating around and gradually become less and less important.

For me at least.
 
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I got Dangerous for Christmas like a month after release. Got HIStory, Invincible, Michael and Xscape all on launch day, and did as you describe. Yeah, there's nothing like listening to a song for the first time.

But then, something happened, and now I couldn't care less about new MJ stuff. It's almost guaranteed to be fake, and even if it isn't, it's going to be autotuned and compressed and remixed and generally sound like garbage.

The anticipation and satisfaction has all been lost. I literally can't even be bothered to click a link any more.
Christ, I find myself agreeing with you.👍

Initially, we had the watering down of MJ with the Michael albums 3 fakes, then the remixes on Bad25, then the contemporizations on Xscape amid a scattering of leaks. It all began to blur together and become secondary.

I also got Dangerous a month after release for Crimbo and on first listen the impact has stayed with me like everything in his lifetime.
 
Good morning, would you like a cup of coffee and some cookies? Seems like you slept for a long time 🫡😁.

And on topic:

I already wrote that several times, so copy paste:

I think the main reason why Michael didn't want people to listen to unfinished material is because most people judge and say "XY is a bad track" even though it's just the beginning of a long journey.... it's like drawing. First you have an idea, you sketch it, you change lines, you try which colours match best etc. and then you have the finished result. It's a process and the process shouldn't be judged, but be seen as exploring possibilities.

When you are aware of that, imo it's not a problem to listen to the leaks. We have to take what we can get 🤷
It’s an interesting point.
 
I never thought I'd experience a moment like when I first heard the leak of "We've Had Enough" before the release of The Ultimate Collection. It was utterly amazing to hear the ending of that song, as I had thought we would never hear MJ sing that strong again after hearing Invincible.

But listening to "Remember What I Told You" brought me right back to those days of the mid 00's when leaks meant something and they felt like a true moment in time. Hearing something that really gets you "up" and excited and giddy in the moment you hear it really is a shared connection between you and the artist.

MJ wouldn't have been happy that exclusive tracks from an expensive 5 disc boxset had been leaked, but at the end of the day he is gone now for 16 years. I'm sure that wherever he is, he can appreciate that moments like I encountered when I heard those 90 seconds of music can still happen 16 years after his passing, and 20+ years since the first time I heard "State of Shock" with Freddie Mercury and almost died. For a piece of music to re-establish such a connection that I had thought could never be revisited again was pure magic.

So while I understand how some people can feel about leaks, it can also bring such a positive energy - which is always MJ's intention when it comes to his art.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I am happy that you had some of the feeling back with the leaks.
 
You know, Michael's death is now 17 years ago and although I might not be grieving anymore but rather feel a kind of gratitude for Michael and his music in my life and on earth, I still think that any release of new music (officially or leaks) are evoking some pain in me. Because it reminds me of him being gone. Officially released music will be only half finished or mixed by someone else and leaks are leaks, so it just reminds us that Michael is not here anymore. That's why I assume any kind of release process feels a bit like smiling with a tear in the eyes and taking a deep breath. At least that's how I feel about it. I am happy to hear Michael's music, but still I miss and love him.

So I guess that these feelings I, and maybe others also have, might influence my judgements towards leaks. Hearing them unfinished and just "thrown out" there just reminds me that Michael is gone and maybe also that the estate is not doing a good job advancing his legacy.

But that aside: Let's imagine what future we wish for us hearing some of Michael's unreleased work. I personally don't want to consume it being thrown out on the internet like this. I wish to have some dignity in release processes. I think it would always be a good solution to put unfinished demos and mixed versions on an album so that we can hear what was added posthumously and how did the demo sound - like on Xscape.

I don't know if someone of you went to one of Brad Sundberg's seminars once. I was there in Paris, 2019. You know, he played some unreleased material there, like Streetwalker demo or Jane is a Groupie. He had a huge sound system, he brought Michael into the atmosphere beforehand, and when it was a fitting time, he just played the songs and everyone was quiet and just enjoyed. I personally closed my eyes and did nothing else but listening. I was in heaven. This is what I mean with dignity. I think I might rather have one experience like this than consuming the songs leaked on YouTube. It's a matter of enjoyment and being immersed that I couldn't create for myself with the January leaks or leaks in general.

These are not party hats or single use cups or any kind of mass products ready to be consumed. These pieces of music are art with Michael's soul in them. He said he tries to bind his soul and love into his music and I can feel that. I don't wish to consume them like a product. I wish to let them take me on a journey somewhere and show me something within myself. I wish to let me be connected to the people who created them, mainly Michael, but also his team. That is why to me, the leaks feel "wrong". Again, this is not to judge about whether leaks or hearing them is right or wrong. It's just that I am also tired of this consume society we live in.
 
You know, Michael's death is now 17 years ago and although I might not be grieving anymore but rather feel a kind of gratitude for Michael and his music in my life and on earth, I still think that any release of new music (officially or leaks) are evoking some pain in me. Because it reminds me of him being gone. Officially released music will be only half finished or mixed by someone else and leaks are leaks, so it just reminds us that Michael is not here anymore. That's why I assume any kind of release process feels a bit like smiling with a tear in the eyes and taking a deep breath. At least that's how I feel about it. I am happy to hear Michael's music, but still I miss and love him.

So I guess that these feelings I, and maybe others also have, might influence my judgements towards leaks. Hearing them unfinished and just "thrown out" there just reminds me that Michael is gone and maybe also that the estate is not doing a good job advancing his legacy.

But that aside: Let's imagine what future we wish for us hearing some of Michael's unreleased work. I personally don't want to consume it being thrown out on the internet like this. I wish to have some dignity in release processes. I think it would always be a good solution to put unfinished demos and mixed versions on an album so that we can hear what was added posthumously and how did the demo sound - like on Xscape.

I don't know if someone of you went to one of Brad Sundberg's seminars once. I was there in Paris, 2019. You know, he played some unreleased material there, like Streetwalker demo or Jane is a Groupie. He had a huge sound system, he brought Michael into the atmosphere beforehand, and when it was a fitting time, he just played the songs and everyone was quiet and just enjoyed. I personally closed my eyes and did nothing else but listening. I was in heaven. This is what I mean with dignity. I think I might rather have one experience like this than consuming the songs leaked on YouTube. It's a matter of enjoyment and being immersed that I couldn't create for myself with the January leaks or leaks in general.

These are not party hats or single use cups or any kind of mass products ready to be consumed. These pieces of music are art with Michael's soul in them. He said he tries to bind his soul and love into his music and I can feel that. I don't wish to consume them like a product. I wish to let them take me on a journey somewhere and show me something within myself. I wish to let me be connected to the people who created them, mainly Michael, but also his team. That is why to me, the leaks feel "wrong". Again, this is not to judge about whether leaks or hearing them is right or wrong. It's just that I am also tired of this consume society we live in.
I feel much the same. Thank you for putting your thoughts so eloquently and much better than I could have.

I think another thing that irks me about the whole leaks thing is that there’s some genuinely good material that had so much potential that could have possibly had close to the sort of magical effect on the world that MJ’s music did in the past.

Having said that, I do know there’s fans who’ve had great experiences also -Innuendo- and I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. There are some lovely tracks.
 
I feel much the same. Thank you for putting your thoughts so eloquently and much better than I could have.

I think another thing that irks me about the whole leaks thing is that there’s some genuinely good material that had so much potential that could have possibly had close to the sort of magical effect on the world that MJ’s music did in the past.

Having said that, I do know there’s fans who’ve had great experiences also -Innuendo- and I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. There are some lovely tracks.
Thanks Az and yes, this is important to me too. I don't wish to blur the fun for anyone.
 
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