@staywild23
Plonking this over here so as not to clog up the picture threads more than I already have.
Bad era Michael and the light in his eye. I'm so glad you said this. This is going to sound ridiculous but it isn't just a case of 'the language to describe Michael hasn't yet been invented' (although I agree with that statement). It's more than that. For me it's also that, in trying to use existing language, I can't even get to first base. For example, I agree with you that in this era he's just glowing, radiating something awesome. When I look at him in the APOM video I see his eyes are just lit up. And I've always thought, 'oh Michael's eyes are really twinkling'. And I know that is the wrong word, not the word I want, it's not doing the job I need it to do. Twinkling. Just no. But that's the word I've always used because I literally couldn't find anything better than that.
You've offered up the words 'glowing' and 'radiating'. I mean, that's fairly normal, straightforward vocabulary. And yet I couldn't find it in my brain.
What is that? How does he scramble my brain like that? It's weird. No-one else scrambles my brain like that. What's going on?
You can see it in the APOM video but also in many photos from that era, as well. That spirit or energy or love or excitement or ... something. Maybe all of those things. But he's radiating them outwards. I mean, I get the whole energy exchange between a performer and the audience but this looks like something beyond even that.
The thing about him as a sex symbol. Can't remember where but out there somewhere in the ether there is a quote from Michael (from the 1980's, I think) where he says he feels embarrassed about being a sex symbol and can't think about it too much. I think he means it would do his head in if he focused on it. He says he gets embarrassed by the letters some fans send him and I believe him. Sounded like some of the letters were quite explicit. Personally I think it would be weird and kinda unpleasant to receive stuff like that. I'm sure he was flattered in general to be loved so much but I can't imagine him being all that comfortable with too much explicit stuff. I dunno. Maybe he was just being coy or playing the media game. But I don't think so. I think this quote was from the period when he was still in the JW church so that might have something to do with it.
I think he'd be OK with the Manhood thread. I've only seen a couple of pages but I haven't seen anything unpleasant on there.
I'm with Antwort on this. I'm not entirely comfortable with this aspect of Michael's life as a celebrity, tbh. I'm not sure it's even healthy to be on the receiving end of this type of attention. I'm not criticising anyone on the Manhood thread. At this stage, I don't think this is an issue anymore for obvious reasons. But I think if Michael was somewhat detached from that type of attention it was probably a protective thing he was doing. And that's good. I'm glad he knew how to instinctively protect himself.
Back to the language thing. Where are the words we need? Where are they to be found? What sort of words could encompass Michael? I have no idea.
I appreciate you continuing this conversation over here! I personally never mind with the picture threads get filled with convo too, but it may annoy others. I LOVE talking about all of this at length though. I could talk about it all day lol
It's so interesting you bring up the APOM video because in that, and the performances of that song, is the energy I am talking about! When I think about the essence of Bad era Michael, I think about him smiling so hard when he's singing "we're bringing brighter days" that his actual voice changes and you can hear him unable to sing without the smile ringing through the stadium. It is so beautiful. Watching him perform it is stunning. But even today, I was listening to the live version while driving, and without the visual of the video I could still feel the love just emanating through the speakers. It was unreal. He conveyed so much with his voice, alone, in that song that when you add the visuals of his bright, beaming face and the dancing around the stage and calling out to the audience, oh boy. It's just overwhelming.
Anyway, I know what you mean about "twinkling" and feeling like it's not enough, but it's all you cay say. That's how I feel when I use the words sexy, gorgeous, beautiful, radiant, glowing. NONE of these words feel like enough. Don't even get me started on "hot." He is hot as hell, and I use that word for him a lot, but that feels like such an understatement I want to throw it in the trash lol. Right now I feel like "shimmering" captures his essence during APOM. But it captures the spiritual essence, not necessarily the sexiness. It's just so difficult with him. He escapes language.
I LOVE this conversation about him as a sex symbol. No surprise, I have a lot of thoughts. First of all, I would love to know from your perspective as someone who grew up alongside Michael, how broadly was he considered a sex symbol? Did this exist among his fans, or was this a mainstream thought? I was born in 1988 and I came of age during the 2000s, so I wasn't of age during a time where anyone was really "allowed" to see Michael in a positive, or sexy light. It legitimately blew my mind when I discovered how attractive he was. So, I've always wanted to understand the cultural context in the height of his career. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can become the biggest superstar on the planet without mass sex appeal. It just doesn't seem realistic. But I'd still love to hear your perspective on this. It's very obvious that his fans were IN LOVE with him at award shows, performances, any appearances he made. But...was this accepted broadly?
Anyway, when it comes to this topic my thinking aligns more with you
@zinniabooklover. But to
@Hiker I want to clarify what I said. I absolutely think Michael knew he had sex appeal and he knew that his female fans, especially, were in love/lust with him. No doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that he knew what he was doing and was feeding into it (especially in the 90s). I am sure he was enjoying it too, especially while on stage. But the issue for me is that I don't think Michael EVER saw himself through those eyes. I think he saw himself, quite literally, as an instrument of nature. As a being that existed to perform and bring other people happiness. I don't want to say he saw himself as a product, because that totally cheapens what I mean. But I do think he saw himself as existing for others. The ultimate empath, who happened to be the greatest entertainer ever. Don't get me wrong; I believe everything about his performance style and his music was sincere. I believe it was a true representation of him coming into and owning his sexuality, of finding independence and freedom, of taking ownership of his appearance and the perception people had of who he was. But I also believe within that was a desire to reveal parts of himself to his audience that would help them understand who he was. That, of course, includes his sexuality.
However, I do believe that Michael was probably very self conscious, off stage, not thinking of himself in those terms at all. I mean, we all know he was very unhappy with his appearance. He straight up says during the Oprah interview that he avoids the mirror and tries not to look at himself and that he is never satisfied with what he sees in the mirror. We know he had deep wounds attached to his appearance. It's mind-blowing trying to understand how a person who is so objectively gorgeous, and who was so openly feeding into this could actually hate his own appearance, and feel uncomfortable with being seen as a sex symbol, but this to me is the separation of the person and the performer. His performances were authentic, but they were still
performances. He gave everything he could on stage, but was supremely private off stage. There's a reason for this. I believe he wanted and needed the separation in order to stay grounded. If he allowed himself to buy into all of it, I don't think we would see such a humble, gracious man. He gave everything he possibly could when it was asked of him, but I imagine otherwise he really needed to retain a part of himself that wasn't for fans. So him being sexualized off stage is crossing that boundary, if that makes sense. Sexualized on stage, sure, fair game, he likely loved that kind of positive attention. But off stage? He was a gentle, quiet, thoughtful, intellectual, artistic man who felt that sexual conversations and feelings should be private. So this dichotomy, as strange as it might seem, does make sense to me.
I can only imagine how receiving letters with explicit sexual thoughts and fantasies probably made him feel humiliated and maybe even degraded at times because it crossed that boundary. I remember an interview he did in the early 80s when he was asked how he feels about his fans trying to touch him and kiss him and stuff, and he said it's wonderful because it's all love. But being mobbed is horrible and scary and painful. So I see this as kind of along the same lines. Having his fans adore him, love him, and desire him was one thing, but being "attacked" with that desire (i.e. receiving unwanted, explicit sexual attention) might have been very uncomfortable for him.
I also think because he was sort of mixed up about sex given his upbringing, family, religion, etc. that he probably felt very confused and in turmoil at times about the feedback he received. He probably instinctively as a man and person loved the sexual attention on stage, while also experiencing an inner guilt. I often wonder how much this personal stuff ate away at him in reflection of his own performances, or in reflection of how his fans responded to him.
I don't know, I am really going on and on here lol. I feel like I am still talking around the main point I"m trying to articulate. I guess that would be summed up as this: I think he could love and feed into the sexual attention, but still crave separation and boundaries. I can honestly say that as much as I scream about this man and basically suggest I would get myself fired if I worked for him because of my open lust (lol) I can't imagine ever crossing any kind of line that would make him feel uncomfortable. I would never ever in a million years write an explicit letter to him with the hope that he'd read it, because I would worry it would make him feel disrespected in some way. However, I would absolutely indulge in those fantasies on the Manhood thread (I'm talking back in the day, when Michael was alive and likely read it here and there). I wouldn't mind that, because in that context it was his choice to enter those conversations and observe them. But to force them on him...I couldn't do that.
NONE of this is to say that I don't completely understand why fans would want to share those thoughts lol. They are overwhelming and they need to be expressed somehow. I'm just grateful we have a fan community like this to do that
Also...so sorry about this long rambling response. It's a lot, I know!
I felt like the uncultured swine that I was!). It's funny that I didn't appreciate it all like I do now, looking back, and I couldn't imagine not listening to this music or watching this performances and videos. Every once in a while, I try to track my steps back to what initially made me finally fall in love about a year and a half ago, but I've consumed so much MJ and Jackson-related media in that time, this is one of those moments where I can't remember what it was. But it had the exact same effect as what you're experiencing, haha! And I don't think it goes away any time.
I'm glad you've discovered the magic, welcome to the fam!