Nickelodeon Kids Choice Awards

There is conflicting stories on if the Gavin hand holding scene was scripted or not. However according to Aphrodite Jones, Martin Bashir pushed/set up and cheered on the "hand holding" scene. If this is true, I think MJ should have stopped it, but then the headlines would be "MJ REFUSES to hold hands with a poor Cancer survivor!" Honestly wished MJ would have never met the Arvizo's, who were lowkey known to be scammers around Hollywood and also in the JCPenney company. They were the final nail in his coffin.
wonderouzmj said:
Especially around 95 96....I know he got a kids choice award in 94 but it wasn't on nick. It just bothers me because in hindsight
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It was kinda rare for MJ to attend an award show multiple years anyways. I can think of 94-95 & 01-02 MTV awards. It's kinda shocking that MJ even attended the Kid's choice awards show in 94 fresh off the Chandler saga.
 
Michael should have stopped allowing kids to sleep in his bedroom. Especially after 1993. I get his bedroom was two stories but the average joe don't think of a bedroom like that. They think of a bedroom as a small, intimate place. But saying he should never have been around children is ridiculous IMO.
 
analogue said:
Michael should have stopped allowing kids to sleep in his bedroom. Especially after 1993. I get his bedroom was two stories but the average joe don't think of a bedroom like that. They think of a bedroom as a small, intimate place. But saying he should never have been around children is ridiculous IMO.
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I agree, I remember Macaulay Culkin said on Larry King that his bedroom was huge and he also said that MJ wasn't good at explaining things.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I wish MJ never hung out with kids on first place, he should've known that the world wasn't gonna see it with good eyes. If the allegations never happened he'd be the world's number 1 superstar but unfortunately it's something that follows his legacy to this day.
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This is what I find most disappointing.

His dedication to his craft and the career that he had should have cemented his place as the greatest ever entertainer.

It did but these allegations have left an absolute sinister mark on his whole life due to his behaviour around children.

For almost 30 years he's been tagged with the 'paedophile' label by many people and whenever MJ is mentioned there's no escaping this tag.

It is one of the most hideous crimes someone could commit so you can imagine the damage it has caused to his reputation.

In the build up to this is it I thought there was a shift and everyone was excited again and his death really brought a change and opinions of him were mostly good again up until 2019.

This is where it all changed again and with the whole cancel culture these days it has made things worse.

He is still selling which is good and MJ musical is doing amazing.

I personally think that the biopic is the last chance saloon to really make people love MJ again. If they get it right it could catapult him like it did with Queen.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I wish MJ never hung out with kids on first place, he should've known that the world wasn't gonna see it with good eyes. If the allegations never happened he'd be the world's number 1 superstar but unfortunately it's something that follows his legacy to this day.
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From most metrics he is the world's number 1 superstar. If he was deceased still they'd try to forget him, if he was alive, he'd be retired and out of the game. Time does diminish all accomplishments, naturally.

I think the writing was on the wall period. When he bought that catalogue, he became #1 target period. They would've tried to smear his name from the beginning, because the system hates seeing anyone doing well and is trying to tear us all down, period.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
This is what I find most disappointing.

His dedication to his craft and the career that he had should have cemented his place as the greatest ever entertainer.

It did but these allegations have left an absolute sinister mark on his whole life due to his behaviour around children.

For almost 30 years he's been tagged with the 'paedophile' label by many people and whenever MJ is mentioned there's no escaping this tag.

It is one of the most hideous crimes someone could commit so you can imagine the damage it has caused to his reputation.

In the build up to this is it I thought there was a shift and everyone was excited again and his death really brought a change and opinions of him were mostly good again up until 2019.

This is where it all changed again and with the whole cancel culture these days it has made things worse.

He is still selling which is good and MJ musical is doing amazing.

I personally think that the biopic is the last chance saloon to really make people love MJ again. If they get it right it could catapult him like it did with Queen.
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There is really not as much damage as we like to believe. When you have people like Dave Chappelle taking up for MJ, who's random comedy specials gets more optics, more views, than any salacious and pompous documentary, then what is there to say? MJ is not R.Kelly, or Bill Cosby, their reputations have been completely wiped out. No "alleged" potential abuser gets as much airplay as MJ, period. What some fans expect is just unanimous adulation of MJ from every soul on Earth, which was never actually a thing, and isn't possible. People will find and will have other reasons to not like MJ. I think the question is if LN did any damage to our own personal love of MJ. Or if we accept that he cared for lesser privileged children and children in Hollywood and showed them (and their families) attention and brought them into his fold. Because
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
There is really not as much damage as we like to believe. When you have people like Dave Chappelle taking up for MJ, who's random comedy specials gets more optics, more views, than any salacious and pompous documentary, then what is there to say? MJ is not R.Kelly, or Bill Cosby, their reputations have been completely wiped out. No "alleged" potential abuser gets as much airplay as MJ, period. What some fans expect is just unanimous adulation of MJ from every soul on Earth, which was never actually a thing, and isn't possible. People will find and will have other reasons to not like MJ. I think the question is if LN did any damage to our own personal love of MJ. Or if we accept that he cared for lesser privileged children and children in Hollywood and showed them (and their families) attention and brought them into his fold. Because
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Hmm I think due to how talented he was and how big a star I think he's just too big to cancel completely.

The man sold 50 sold out shows at the O2 with demand for even more, and that was despite the fact he went through a trial in 05 for the second child abuse allegations.

I think today though times are different and he would be absolutely crucified even more if these shenanigans were still going on.

Unfortunately in the UK, MJ is put in the same category as well known child molesters , Jimmy Savile and Gary Glitter by many people.

He still has a lot of fans but I'm sick of seeing pedo or nonce comments on pretty much every Facebook article etc.

His image has defo been deeply damaged by these allegations.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Hmm I think due to how talented he was and how big a star I think he's just too big to cancel completely.

The man sold 50 sold out shows at the O2 with demand for even more, and that was despite the fact he went through a trial in 05 for the second child abuse allegations.

I think today though times are different and he would be absolutely crucified even more if these shenanigans were still going on.

Unfortunately in the UK, MJ is put in the same category as well known child molesters , Jimmy Savile and Gary Glitter by many people.

He still has a lot of fans but I'm sick of seeing pedo or nonce comments on pretty much every Facebook article etc.

His image has defo been deeply damaged by these allegations.
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I think in other countries it might be worse tbh, they never even dwelled on the allegations like that in certain places? How was it in the UK. During 2005/1993?
 
I think MJ will always be a successful niche but in terms of universal appeal, it really hasn't been that way since BAD era. You can argue that it only lasted for Thriller era solely, and then before and after was famous but not quite.

But the Point is we won't see the universal appeal until the next generation is here and we're probably gone, the past gen (which basically are MJs main demographic) respect him overall still, but I think this gen is surprisingly intolerant to him, and not just because of the allegations. All the critics fail to appreciate his work and legacy.
 
I don't know why this has become my "MJ innocent" thread of choice,but, anywheres good, so whatever...

If MJ was still alive there would be no LN. Those chickens wouldn't have the guts.
BuffaloBill87 said:
I think today though times are different and he would be absolutely crucified even more if these shenanigans were still going on.
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Those 2005 allegations have no leg to stand on and would be forgotten about, end of the day. That's all the critics would have. 93 settlement would be rougher but tbh, if MJ couldn't say his peace by now, like, idk, what could be done? He'd have to completely focus on rehabilitating his humanitarian angle. There's many more ways now to be transparent. MJs mystery made it hard to know in him some ways.

And if he was here today, he'd witness R.Kelly, Cosby, Trump, Bryan Singer, Jimmy Saville and Epstein, and read the room. He would not be moving that way. Not that there was anything wrong with him showing hospitality to families and mentoring the less fortunate and vulnerable males, they need role models and are in danger. But there's better ways.

MJ would be a father and that's what he cared about, end of the day.
 
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