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no one can complain about michael lip syncing again

83magic

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when usher is literally just letting the entire track (with vocals) play. he’s not even putting in the effort to give the illusion that he’s singing. yet the crowd seem to be enjoying it.
 
This is not an accurate representation of what an Usher concert is like, or what this particular tour was like. The band are not even on stage in this video. Usher and the DJ appear to be playing some of his lesser known singles for fun for the audience, as someone pointed out in the comments, perhaps to see what their reaction would be.

If you were to watch one of his concerts, you would see that there are plenty of numbers where he sings fully live and actually does a great job.
 
83magic said:
when usher is literally just letting the entire track (with vocals) play. he’s not even putting in the effort to give the illusion that he’s singing. yet the crowd seem to be enjoying it.
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Sorry, 83, but this argument just doesn't hold up for me. I don't have any interest in Usher or his music so I don't really care if he mimes during a show. It's irrelevant to me. Plus that show seems to be from 2015. I don't like the fact that lip syncing is a 'thing' now but this is where we are. In recent years it's become, well, I don't know if it's standard but it's certainly not unusual. It wasn't so common back in Michael's day. Not unheard of but not really common, afaik. Although I never did arenas and stadiums so I'm no expert on that.

Plus, it's Michael we're talking about. He of the sublime voice and unearthly talent. Michael with the awesome back catalogue and a voice built for ballads and show tunes. I know the HWT thing is complicated and I don't want to have a go at Michael but he could have done some things differently. There is no reason why he couldn't have inserted a slower section into his shows. They were pretty long, he could have played around with the structure of the show just a little bit.

dethorro said:
This is not an accurate representation of what an Usher concert is like, or what this particular tour was like. The band are not even on stage in this video. Usher and the DJ appear to be playing some of his lesser known singles for fun for the audience, as someone pointed out in the comments, perhaps to see what their reaction would be.
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That's actually not a bad idea. For me, if I was into Usher, I would still prefer him to sing those lesser known songs live. Why on earth not? But, still, I can sort of see the point of what he's doing there. If there's a DJ involved I can see how that would break up the show quite nicely. Change the pace a little bit.

dethorro said:
If you were to watch one of his concerts, you would see that there are plenty of numbers where he sings fully live and actually does a great job.
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Good to know.

AlwaysThere said:
We can! And we will!
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:ROFLMAO:
 
There is no excuse that Michael could not perform his ballads live other than the fact the he was perhaps not confident in his singing abilities or he was just not good enough as a live singer.

It's a disgrace that a song like you are not alone was lip synced. His live ad libs at the end usually sounded great.
 
He wanted it to sound just like the record.
I remember somewhere he said that he wanted to bring the song to different countries in the same way as the album version, as a way to introduce his songs to fans.

It was mainly the History World Tour where he lipsynced, most of his career was live vocals.
 
He may have wanted it to sound like the record but so does every artist , that's just an excuse for not singing live.

As MJ got older , his vocals declined on stage due to a combination of age, being too out of breath to sing and dance and vocal damage (History tour vocals yikes)
 
The "he wanted it to sound just like a record" argument is really overdone guys. Yeah, that's what he said, but it's obvious that it was just a lazy excuse. I don't know one single person who wants to go to a concert to hear 100% the same track they could listen to at home, it just doesn't make any sense.
The peak of this absurdity was the lip synching of the backing vocalists during Stranger in Moscow with MJs vocals, and it's a shame, since it's one of Michael's greatest songs in every aspect.
 
ssj said:
The "he wanted it to sound just like a record" argument is really overdone guys. Yeah, that's what he said, but it's obvious that it was just a lazy excuse. I don't know one single person who wants to go to a concert to hear 100% the same track they could listen to at home, it just doesn't make any sense.
The peak of this absurdity was the lip synching of the backing vocalists during Stranger in Moscow with MJs vocals, and it's a shame, since it's one of Michael's greatest songs in every aspect.
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Yes 100%

The backing singers put so much enthusiasm into the lip syncing during those moments. Munich instantly comes to my mind.

Another peak is the OTW medley during History tour 😞 Was awful from MJ , he was able to sing those songs so perfectly only a decade earlier.

At least re-record those vocals if you're gonna lip sync MJ
 
There ain't even nobody here lol. You think this site is popular? No one will see this discussion

Conversely, I need to go listen to these Usher tunes, they vibe
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
He may have wanted it to sound like the record but so does every artist , that's just an excuse for not singing live.

As MJ got older , his vocals declined on stage due to a combination of age, being too out of breath to sing and dance and vocal damage (History tour vocals yikes)
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It has been said that the first round of accusations against him (1993) had an adverse effect also on his voice.

These accusations led to more medication, more prescription drugs, a worsening of his insomnia, etc, which all of them can deteriorate the health/condition of a singer's voice, hence his lip-syncing even for slow songs that do not require intense dancing at the same time.
ssj said:
The "he wanted it to sound just like a record" argument is really overdone guys. Yeah, that's what he said, but it's obvious that it was just a lazy excuse. I don't know one single person who wants to go to a concert to hear 100% the same track they could listen to at home, it just doesn't make any sense.
The peak of this absurdity was the lip synching of the backing vocalists during Stranger in Moscow with MJs vocals, and it's a shame, since it's one of Michael's greatest songs in every aspect.
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The peak of this absurdity was also the lip-syncing of 'You Are Not Alone' (HIStory Tour), and in particular the beginning of that song when in order not to miss the first cue he decided that it was safer for him to lip-sync his first line from backstage.
 
mj_frenzy said:
The peak of this absurdity was also the lip-syncing of 'You Are Not Alone' (HIStory Tour), and in particular the beginning of that song when in order not to miss the first cue he decided that it was safer for him to lip-sync his first line from backstage.
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He couldn't miss the first cue because Jonathan Moffett always counted in. Get your facts straight once, for the love of god!
 
my initial post wasn’t made to criticise michael or usher - on the contrary, I actually prefer miming and I don’t enjoy live music. I wanted to show that michael wasn’t the only one who did it, and that there should be no shame in it. a lot of effort goes into the dancing and visuals. it’s entertaining and the audience love it.

this s club show was two days ago. according to those who attended, it was 95% pre recorded vocals.
humans are not machines. touring is unnatural and does damage to the body. it’s best to save your voice for the studio, so you can produce more content. even celine dion, an artist who doesn’t dance, had to resort to miming because she developed nodules on her vocal cords.

gareth brooks and phil collins have also done it. the only difference is that they’re nowhere near as entertaining as the likes of michael, usher, and s club.
 
83magic said:
my initial post wasn’t made to criticise michael or usher - on the contrary, I actually prefer miming and I don’t enjoy live music. I wanted to show that michael wasn’t the only one who did it, and that there should be no shame in it. a lot of effort goes into the dancing and visuals. it’s entertaining and the audience love it.

this s club show was two days ago. according to those who attended, it was 95% pre recorded vocals.
humans are not machines. touring is unnatural and does damage to the body. it’s best to save your voice for the studio, so you can produce more content. even celine dion, an artist who doesn’t dance, had to resort to miming because she developed nodules on her vocal cords.

gareth brooks and phil collins have also done it. the only difference is that they’re nowhere near as entertaining as the likes of michael, usher, and s club.
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How could you not like live music? You go to a concert to hear your favourite artists perform live! That's what it's all about.

Please don't tell me you've just compared S Club to MJ 😲😂
 
83magic said:
my initial post wasn’t made to criticise michael or usher - on the contrary, I actually prefer miming and I don’t enjoy live music. I wanted to show that michael wasn’t the only one who did it, and that there should be no shame in it. a lot of effort goes into the dancing and visuals. it’s entertaining and the audience love it.

this s club show was two days ago. according to those who attended, it was 95% pre recorded vocals.
humans are not machines. touring is unnatural and does damage to the body. it’s best to save your voice for the studio, so you can produce more content. even celine dion, an artist who doesn’t dance, had to resort to miming because she developed nodules on her vocal cords.

gareth brooks and phil collins have also done it. the only difference is that they’re nowhere near as entertaining as the likes of michael, usher, and s club.
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But 83 you're doing the same thing you did before. Comparing a performance from now - in this case 2023, with Usher it was from 2015 - which I don't think can be compared to the 90's. This whole miming thing wasn't quite so widespread back then. I mean, I don't like it even now but it's become standard, afaik. But in the 90's I don't think it was standard. And, yes, touring is hard and really punishing. Although, I would suggest that recording is also pretty punishing. Working 16 - 18 - 20 hour days isn't natural. Doing endless takes isn't natural. I don't think it works like that now but it did in Michael's day.

I'm not criticising you for disliking live music. That's your preference. I'm the complete opposite. Hearing live vocals from a gifted singer is an awesome experience. Yes, it sounds and feels significantly different to the studio versions of the songs but the excitement is much higher, imo.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
How could you not like live music? You go to a concert to hear your favourite artists perform live! That's what it's all about.

Please don't tell me you've just compared S Club to MJ 😲😂
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no, I go to a concert to see my favourite artist in person, performing my favourite songs the way that I know them. it’s an experience that I get to be apart of.

perfection was already achieved in the studio. anything else would be less than. I don’t like my favourite songs being ruined. live renditions are usually loud and unclear due to drums and guitars. songs are often taken down a few keys, and vocals can be poor. making it all an unrecognisable mess.

that’s why I would prefer for the music and vocals to be prerecorded. it can still be done in a way that is different to what has already been released. the mic can still be on for when the artist needs to interact with the audience.

I used s club (who I see nothing wrong with) and usher as examples because they dance. I also used celine dion, garth brooks, and phil collins.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Completely agree, I'm sick of seeing that same excuse rolled out every single time.


Elton makes a great point ps his Glastonbury set was phenomenal and completely live
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elton john mimed on ‘top of the pops’ in the 90’s when the policy stated that it was optional.
 
Hot_Street said:
that's not what fans expect from a concert
they want the real thing, even if it's not perfect
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yet I’ve seen people on here complain that michael sounded bad at times. they expect him to perform when he has throat issues and still sound good. they complain when he cancelled shows, and they complain when he tried to find a balance by miming. he couldn’t win.
 
83magic said:
elton john mimed on ‘top of the pops’ in the 90’s when the policy stated that it was optional.
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That's a poor example to use, a one off top of the pops performance when the majority of acts lip synced on that show, it's for television.

That's another reason why I think MJ never did a big festival performance because he knew he would be crucified for mining.

I still find it hard to believe that you would rather hear him lip sync his way through stranger in Moscow as a example (along with his backing singers) than fresh live vocals - that song was made for live singing. It would have been stunning.
 
83magic said:
yet I’ve seen people on here complain that michael sounded bad at times. they expect him to perform when he has throat issues and still sound good. they complain when he cancelled shows, and they complain when he tried to find a balance by miming. he couldn’t win.
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I tend to avoid the convos about HWT performances bc it's complicated by many factors including Michael's health. My points are more general. I prefer live vocals and would be hugely p*ssed off if I went to a gig and the singer was mostly miming. I don't have an answer to the problems that Michael was up against other than, in an ideal fantasy, I would have loved him to do some sort of stripped down / low-key / unplugged type of show. Not the HBO One Night Only. I mean, a series of shorter live shows where he just showed off his beautiful voice. And I know lots of people wouldn't want that bc they want Michael the entertainer. So there is no easy answer to this.

I am intrigued as to how Taylor Swift is coping with her current tour. The show lasts for over 3 hours. I have no idea if she sings live for the whole thing.
 
zinniabooklover said:
But 83 you're doing the same thing you did before. Comparing a performance from now - in this case 2023, with Usher it was from 2015 - which I don't think can be compared to the 90's. This whole miming thing wasn't quite so widespread back then. I mean, I don't like it even now but it's become standard, afaik. But in the 90's I don't think it was standard. And, yes, touring is hard and really punishing. Although, I would suggest that recording is also pretty punishing. Working 16 - 18 - 20 hour days isn't natural. Doing endless takes isn't natural. I don't think it works like that now but it did in Michael's day.

I'm not criticising you for disliking live music. That's your preference. I'm the complete opposite. Hearing live vocals from a gifted singer is an awesome experience. Yes, it sounds and feels significantly different to the studio versions of the songs but the excitement is much higher, imo.
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miming became prevalent in the early 90’s, in both tv shows and concerts. in fact, it only became a scandal when milli vanilli got caught miming to someone else’s vocals.
janet did it here in 1990.
michael was known for nailing his vocals in one or takes in the studio. it doesn’t always have to take 18-22 hours, depending on the song and what you’re doing. besides, the touring schedule is different to the recording schedule. an album can take months (or even weeks) whereas as a tour can take over a year, especially if it’s a world tour. there’s also the full on dancing that michael did onstage versus the studio. michael had throat issues on the ‘destiny’ tour because he was flying back and forth to record ‘off the wall’ at the same time.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
That's a poor example to use, a one off top of the pops performance when the majority of acts lip synced on that show, it's for television.

That's another reason why I think MJ never did a big festival performance because he knew he would be crucified for mining.

I still find it hard to believe that you would rather hear him lip sync his way through stranger in Moscow as a example (along with his backing singers) than fresh live vocals - that song was made for live singing. It would have been stunning.
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elton had the option to sing live and he didn’t. I think it’s so tacky the way he publicly attacked another artist for miming, when he’s guilty of doing the same thing.

michael was too big for festivals. he didn’t need to do them, or jump on the unplugged bandwagon. I more than appreciate him for who he was. I don’t judge him by the standards of rock critics, whose opinions mean nothing to me.
 
83magic said:
miming became prevalent in the early 90’s
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I didn't know that. I only went to small gigs so whatever was happening at big shows clearly passed me by. I thought it came along much later.

83magic said:
, in both tv shows
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tv shows don't count. Miming on pop music shows goes back to the early 70's, at the very least. Most TOTP performances were mimed. Everyone understood that, it's a completely different thing. Although, when someone did perform live, it was massively exciting, imo.

83magic said:
michael was known for nailing his vocals in one or takes in the studio
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And was also known for insisting on doing many more takes even after people assured him that the first take was 'the one'. 91 vocal takes for BJ. I can't remember how many takes he did for Smile but he went on beyond the first take, afaik, even though that first take is the one that got him the standing ovation from Bruce and the orchestra.

83magic said:
. it doesn’t always have to take 18-22 hours, depending on the song and what you’re doing
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I'm not saying it takes 20 hours for a single song. I'm saying that recording sessions go on until the early hours of the morning, very often, and that's physically punishing and not very healthy. Maybe not quite as bad as touring. At least you get to go back to your own home. But it's still a harsh regime.

83magic said:
. besides, the touring schedule is different to the recording schedule. an album can take months (or even weeks) whereas as a tour can take over a year,
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Typically 18 months - 2 years to tour a successful record. I'm not saying touring isn't hard on everyone, especially the singer. It is really hard. But recording is also punishing. Musicians seem to enjoy it more bc they are at home and they are creating new and different stuff whereas on tour they are slogging through the same set list each night. Otoh, they get the energy exchange with the audience and they love that, also.

83magic said:
especially if it’s a world tour. there’s also the full on dancing that michael did onstage versus the studio.
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But he didn't have to. He didn't have to dance to SIM. He could have just stood there and performed the song.

83magic said:
michael had throat issues on the ‘destiny’ tour because he was flying back and forth to record ‘off the wall’ at the same time.
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I'm aware of this. I don't really want to discuss specific tours or shows that Michael did. I'm saying he could have made different decisions. He could have sung SIM live, ditched the dancing just for that one song.
 
83magic said:
elton had the option to sing live and he didn’t. I think it’s so tacky the way he publicly attacked another artist for miming, when he’s guilty of doing the same thing.

michael was too big for festivals. he didn’t need to do them, or jump on the unplugged bandwagon. I more than appreciate him for who he was. I don’t judge him by the standards of rock critics, whose opinions mean nothing to me.
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Elton has always been a bit bitchy tbh. I'm not a fan of Madonna good songs but (crap singer) so I'm glad he called her out.

I don't think he was too big for the headline slot on say a Sunday at Glastonbury - it would have been brilliant for his career. Look at the response Beyonce got from Coachella.

I appreciate you're a staunch defender of Michael but it feels like no matter what we say, you will have an excuse for MJ not performing live.
 
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