No Victory songs on the Victory tour?

Loneman1

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This was a question that I've had off and on for years, but it re-occurred to me earlier tonight and figured I might as well pose it here......have any of the brothers or Michael ever gone on record as to why there were no songs performed on the tour with the album title? I always just kind of assumed it was because I think in a lot of the fans eyes it was basically the "Thriller" tour with a different name and it was obvious that those songs were going to be in high demand in addition to the classic Jacksons hits, but its kind of odd that not even one song made the cut. There are only so many songs you can fit into a setlist, but it seemed like at least "Torture" could have been put in there....

I don't know, just wondered what you guys thought about the whole thing.....maybe they just thought the new stuff wasn't strong enough to stand up with their classic stuff.....?
 

Electro

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As far as i remember reading, Michael was not really keen on going on Tour with his brothers again. Only his mom persuaded him in the end and he had some conditions, like no songs off Victory, for whatever reason.
 

innuendo141

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I wish they did State of Shock, that's my jam :chillin:


Snap. He sings a few lines of it during Shake Your Body in Toronto, just before the song breaks down. Thats as close as we'll get.

It is very strange that no songs were sung. Torture could have been on rotation with Tell Me Im Not Dreaming. And State of SHock would have worked perfectly well live- just look at Mick and Tina at Live Aid!
 

elusive moonwalker

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Yeah basically kj pressured mj into touring to help the other bros earn money instead of him doing basically a thriller tour and everything that would have come with it.so i guess because he wasnt able to tour his own album he made the rule re victory songs?
 

innuendo141

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Yeah basically kj pressured mj into touring to help the other bros earn money instead of him doing basically a thriller tour and everything that would have come with it.so i guess because he wasnt able to tour his own album he made the rule re victory songs?

I think so. It's odd he wouldn't have wanted to do State of Shock though? It seems MJ was fond of the song, re-working it with Mick, including iut in his retrospective medley on Moonwalker and including it on The Ultimate Collection.
 

KOPV

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By that time Michael was deep into his solo career, if anything he probably would have liked to do a 'Thriller' tour but as we know he was pushed to do a Jacksons tour.. It was very clear by that time any association Michael had on Jackson albums were out of favor and persuasion/guilt.. They even needed to use an MJ statue in the torture video instead of him being in it.. Notice how once Michael started working his solo, he never again appeared on an album cover, it all became either artwork or he simply was not in it..
 

innuendo141

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By that time Michael was deep into his solo career, if anything he probably would have liked to do a 'Thriller' tour but as we know he was pushed to do a Jacksons tour.. It was very clear by that time any association Michael had on Jackson albums were out of favor and persuasion/guilt.. They even needed to use an MJ statue in the torture video instead of him being in it.. Notice how once Michael started working his solo, he never again appeared on an album cover, it all became either artwork or he simply was not in it..

Other than Triumph?
 

KOPV

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innuendo - side note.. How sure are we that Mike was not super impose in the pic? I mean the shading could definitely be a Photoshop tool to hide the fact.. notice how everyone but Mike and Tito are wearing the same shirt!?! lol just throwing that out there
 

Loneman1

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Yeah, with him basically being dragged into touring, I can see him not being the most cooperative with his brothers and focusing on his solo career. But as mentioned, songs like "State of Shock" seem like a glaring omission from the setlist. Who knows for sure.....it would be kind of cool to get some info about the issue from the brothers about the behind the scenes info about that tour. It is tied with the Bad tour as my favorite!
 

Nite Line

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Well according to Joe Jackson, Michael wanted to do Be Not Always but he got too emotional during the rehearsals and so it didn't make the set list. I know that at that time, Michael had issues with his brother but I find it odd that he sang Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming with Jermaine but not Torture. That is a great song and I would have loved it if MJ and JJ had sung that instead.
 

innuendo141

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innuendo - side note.. How sure are we that Mike was not super impose in the pic? I mean the shading could definitely be a Photoshop tool to hide the fact.. notice how everyone but Mike and Tito are wearing the same shirt!?! lol just throwing that out there

Could be right, but I dont think so myself. Also, Michael was still actively writing with his brothers at the time, as well as appearing in the Can You Feel It short film with them, and the Triumph Tour seems to have a much more "Jacksons" atmosphere to it than the Victory Tour.
 

DuranDuran

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photo

Notice how once Michael started working his solo, he never again appeared on an album cover, it all became either artwork or he simply was not in it..
The Victory LP has a gatefold cover and in the inside there is a photo of the group with a sky background. A photo from the same shoot is used for the Body single. The pic is not on the cassette version. I don't think it is on the CD that came out later either.
 

innuendo141

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Re: photo

The Victory LP has a gatefold cover and in the inside there is a photo of the group with a sky background. A photo from the same shoot is used for the Body single. The pic is not on the cassette version. I don't think it is on the CD that came out later either.

jacksonsvictorygatefold.png


Ah yes, here's a few
TitoJackson_TheJacksons.png
63735471.jpg


Heres one that shows Triumph wasnt a photoshop job.
the-jacksons-can-you-feel-it-1981-3.jpg
Can-You-Feel-It-The-Jacksons.jpg
40af2ca158df857018ec779c79fb9565.jpg
hwel1f.jpg
Torture_Single.jpg

105010048.jpg


The final photo is the apparent original concept for the Victory artwork too.
 
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mjprince1976

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Possibly because it was a greatest hits tour and they knew they had to play Crowd pleasing hits from the time of Diana Ross presents the J5 to Triumph and Michael solo numbers. I think also as the Triumph music was too new and the fans did not really know it yet. Plus like you guys said, Michael may have had an issue with it, and he did not really know it all that well, concentrating on his own stuff (Thriller was still going strong, before the onslaught of some purple upstart called Prince).
.
Whereas with Triumph and earlier albums, Michael was not really promoting his own stuff as much. Triumph was nicely spaced after OTW and before Thriller, Destiny fit in just before OTW and the Jacksons/Goin Places was when he was solely a Jackson as opposed to a solo superstar. Plus Michael was not the main writer on Victory like he was with the other albums.
 
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AlexRox

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The reason Michael did not do a "Thriller" tour was because the l.p. had sold enough copies and he did not have to. As far as the title track to "Thriller" not being performed on "The Victory Tour" that was because Michael wanted to save it for not just a solo tour but what would be both his first solo tour as well as promoting his next l.p. of which he knew would need all the promotion it could get after the success of "Thriller". He would point to and look at the world's best selling artists at that time (or those who had the best selling l.p.s at that time period) being Meat Loaf with "Bat Out Of Hell", Peter Frampton with "Frampton Comes Alive", Fleetwood Mac with "Rumors", and The Bee Gees with "Saturday Night Fever" and realize and acknowledge no matter how great and successful they were before and after their best selling l.p.s they could not ever top them again.

As far as why no "Victory" songs were performed live there were a number of reasons. He probably did not want to promote something other than "Thriller" at that point AND he did not want do songs that could be possibly new that followed up "Thriller" when material from "Thriller" at that point was just being performed live for the first time as well as wanting a follow up l.p. to be his own solo release in terms of what also got performed live and would be considered new follow ups to "Thriller".
 

AtlasAir

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At the very least, they should have done TORTURE.
Would have been perfect before or after Jermaine and Michael did "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming"

And State of Shock should have been done, too!
 

AtlasAir

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As far as why no "Victory" songs were performed live there were a number of reasons. He probably did not want to promote something other than "Thriller" at that point AND he did not want do songs that could be possibly new that followed up "Thriller" when material from "Thriller" at that point was just being performed live for the first time as well as wanting a follow up l.p. to be his own solo release in terms of what also got performed live and would be considered new follow ups to "Thriller".

Or there was nothing really good on Victory, and Michael was barely on it anyway, so they chose to do what people would rather hear live, the Thriller cuts and hits.
 

Prince Of Pop

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From what I heard, they couldn't agree on what they wanted to sing from the album. MJ and Jermaine I think were the biggest reasons why this happened. Honestly, aside from State Of Shock and Torture, I can't see anything from that album being sung live that anyone would have cared for. They would have been better off releasing Victory as a live album rather then a "new" album.
 

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Re: photo

I recall that it wasn't just that he refused to sing "Torture" during the tour. MJ also did not show up to appear in the video for "Torture."

 

83magic

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Or there was nothing really good on Victory, and Michael was barely on it anyway, so they chose to do what people would rather hear live, the Thriller cuts and hits.

agreed. even Jermaine and tito have gone on record since then to say that it was a poor effort, that damaged their reputation as a group. it was more like a various artists compilation album, with each brother submitting solo songs. not a cohesive group effort. some of those songs sounded like half hearted demos that never would have seen the light of day under any other circumstances.

however, Michael was riding high with 'thriller'. I don't think that album needed a tour either. instead, maybe he could have completed the animation video for 'human nature' to go along with the single, or just performed other singles such as; 'startin somethin' or 'p.y.t' on a television special or award show in '83. there was a large gap between may and October ('say say say') that year. the 'thriller' era was actually quite short when you think about it.. then again, Michael was wise enough not to oversaturate himself, so it worked out for the best in the end.

the best thing for me about the 'victory' tour for me was 'billie jean' (the extended breakdown with all those glides, and the pacing of the song) and 'shake your body' - which I think were the best performances of the song to date(I *almost* don't mind the long length of this one!).

Michael looked vex or in pain the majority of the time, and it's just not enjoyable to watch :(

those long cord microphones restricted his movement (I can actually see them plugged into a big speaker at some points!). why didn't they just use the cordless ones from the last quarter of the show throughout?

'startin' somethin' my favourite, was merely a warmup rather than the frantic hysteria it should have been. it wasn't sung in the original key (like many of the songs), and there was a lot of growling. I barely recognised it :( more effort seemed to have been put into the overblown intro with 'kreton monsters' - which didn't have any link with the rest of the show (along with the spider that appeared after 'working day and night'). 'things I do for you' and 'lovely one' had no business being on this set-list. instead, the Jackson 5 medley could have been extended to include; 'abc', 'never can say goodbye', and 'dancing machine'. Jermaine's solo would have worked better as an opening act - though it did make sense for them to do 'tell me i'm not dreaming'.. it don't think 'thriller' would have sounded good with the band, or worked with the stage setup. it would have been nice to hear 'farwell my summer love' and 'somebody's watching me', but I understand the politics of of 3 omissions..

it's a shame that Michael didn't make more use of his beautiful outfits. he stayed in that basic white shirt for the majority of the show. he could have at least changed during Jermaine's solo!

the whole thing just seemed unorganised. when eddie van halen joined them for 'beat it', it should have been a *moment*. instead it was a mess.. honestly, their reunion should have ended at Motown 25. that was the perfect closing of a chapter (with Jackie and Jermaine present) and transition into Michael's solo career.

in '84, it would have been great if Michael could have picked up where he left off with that 'peter pan' movie he was planning with steven Spielberg the previous year. judging from the hayvenhurst interview, he wouldn't even have to act :heart:. it's a crime that it never came fruition. it's the role he was born for!
 

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I wished the Jackson boys would have teamed up to do an entire joint album with Toto. Victorys closing track "The Hurt" shows how such a collaboration would have sound.
 

83magic

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just discovered that the 'torture' video (and song) is quite similar to 'pieces of ice' by diana ross! those, along with 'somebody's watching me' and rebbie's 'centipede' were quite disturbing! must have been an ongoing theme in '84..
 

Fuzball

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Re: photo

105010048.jpg


The final photo is the apparent original concept for the Victory artwork too.

Jermaine is missing on that photo. This makes me thinking if the initial victory album concept was thrown away once it was clear that Jermaine would join the brothers?
 

analogue

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just discovered that the 'torture' video (and song) is quite similar to 'pieces of ice' by diana ross! those, along with 'somebody's watching me' and rebbie's 'centipede' were quite disturbing! must have been an ongoing theme in '84..

Torture as one of my favourite Michael vocal delivery's of all time. ''Every little thing you find here, is simply for the thrill you're after'' - I love how he sings that part.
 

DuranDuran

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Centipede

just discovered that the 'torture' video (and song) is quite similar to 'pieces of ice' by diana ross! those, along with 'somebody's watching me' and rebbie's 'centipede' were quite disturbing! must have been an ongoing theme in '84..
What's disturbing about Centipede?
 
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