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Opinions on "Someone Put Your Hand Out"?

@filmandmusic @Agonum

Looks like the trumpet was done on a synth.

Besetzung​

  • Komposition – Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley
  • Produktion – Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley
  • Solo, Background Vocals – Michael Jackson
  • Keyboard, Streicher – Michael Jackson, Brad Buxer
  • Perkussion – Paulinho Da Costa
  • Synthesizer – Jonathan Moxie
  • Gitarre – Oscar Castro-Neves
  • Tontechniker – Bruce Swedien, George Mayers Jr.
  • Assistierende Tontechniker – Tim Roberts, Brad Sundberg, Thom Russo, John Chamberlin, Rail Rogut, John Hanes
  • Digitale Bearbeitung – Michael Prince
  • Mix – Serban
 
zinniabooklover said:
@filmandmusic @Agonum

Looks like the trumpet was done on a synth.

Besetzung​

  • Komposition – Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley
  • Produktion – Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley
  • Solo, Background Vocals – Michael Jackson
  • Keyboard, Streicher – Michael Jackson, Brad Buxer
  • Perkussion – Paulinho Da Costa
  • Synthesizer – Jonathan Moxie
  • Gitarre – Oscar Castro-Neves
  • Tontechniker – Bruce Swedien, George Mayers Jr.
  • Assistierende Tontechniker – Tim Roberts, Brad Sundberg, Thom Russo, John Chamberlin, Rail Rogut, John Hanes
  • Digitale Bearbeitung – Michael Prince
  • Mix – Serban
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Sounds like a real trumpet to me?
 
Agonum said:
Sounds like a real trumpet to me?
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That's what I thought. Those notes confused me. But I'm not an expert.

Looks like the info might have come from here.

  • François Allard, Richard Lecocq: Michael Jackson: All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Track. Cassell, 2018
  • Craig Halstead, Chris Cadman: Michael Jackson: the solo years. New Generation Publishing, 2003

but can you help f&m with this ...
MichaelD said:
No, it's a trumpet.
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filmandmusic said:
Can you teach me how to tell the difference 😭
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zinniabooklover said:
That's what I thought. Those notes confused me. But I'm not an expert.

Looks like the info might have come from here.

  • François Allard, Richard Lecocq: Michael Jackson: All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Track. Cassell, 2018
  • Craig Halstead, Chris Cadman: Michael Jackson: the solo years. New Generation Publishing, 2003

but can you help f&m with this ...
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Ehm… where to begin? The one is a woodwind (saxophone), the other brass (trumpet). Transients are completely different. The saxophone is far more agile.

Have a listen to some Miles Davis and then some John Coltrane. It should be obvious.
 
Agonum said:
Ehm… where to begin? The one is a woodwind (saxophone), the other brass (trumpet). Transients are completely different. The saxophone is far more agile.

Have a listen to some Miles Davis and then some John Coltrane. It should be obvious.
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It's @filmandmusic who is struggling with this, not me. I can tell the difference but I can't explain it.
 
The saxophone also is a more dynamic instrument. The playing field is somewhat leveled by the trumpet employing different kinds of sordins, but not really.


 
e437ca4d-cwbebgaw8aadzrs.jpeg

A saxophone and its Belgian inventor, Adolphe Sax.
 
I don’t know what it is with you guys and synthesizers, by the way. It’s an instrument in its own right.

Case in point: Herbie Hancock’s solo on Chaka Khan’s A Night in Tunisia.
 
filmandmusic said:
Yeah i hear the difference but what if i listen to the videos blindly?
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Try it. The trumpet’s tone (attack) is straighter. With the saxophone there are a lot of glissando and portamento, it’s as if the tones bend from one to the other. It’s also far more dynamic, as I said; you often hear it go from piano to fortissimo in one and the same phrase. It has a “woodier" tone.
 
Historically (18th century), you only ever used trumpets in forte in orchestral settings, and almost always in combination with timpani.
 
Agonum said:
Try it. The trumpet’s tone (attack) is straighter. With the saxophone there are a lot of glissando and portamento, it’s as if the tones bend from one to the other. It’s also far more dynamic, as I said; you often hear it go from piano to fortissimo in one and the same phrase. It has a “woodier" tone.
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You need to post a song(s)with trumpet and sax solos and I have to guess which is which 😜
 
I don't know if it makes sense to you but a saxophone has a more organic/wooden/rough touch whereas a trumpet is more metallic in sound.
Prime example for a saxophone from MJ's catalog would be the intro of "Behind The Mask" (the 2010's posthumous release).
Or listen to some Candy Dulfer music (I think the 90's Baywatch theme is playerd by her?).

Wind instruments are determined by their mouthpieces, not by their body's material.

A sax got a wooden mouthpiece (such as a clarinet, watch their mouthpieces, they are almost identical, they are both woodwind instruments).
Trumpets, horns, trombones, etc. are brass instruments and sound entirely differnt.

Although I just realised it might not answer your question I'll hit the "Post reply"-button anyway.
 
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@Agonum penny lane is trumpet and pink floyd is sax in the beginning, not sure about the solo

edit: i still find it hard to distinguish
it doesn’t really matter as I love both I guess 🤪
 
Agonum said:
I don’t know what it is with you guys and synthesizers, by the way. It’s an instrument in its own right.
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Hey, what's with the 'you guys'? I'm on board with synths. Keith Emerson was my GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!

Ngl, I do have a 'real' instruments mindset sometimes and I'm not gonna apologise for that. A drum machine will never sound as good as drums, imo. But then, as a non-musician, I kind of separate drum machines from synths even though I know that doesn't really make any sense! A drum machine, as I understand it, is a synth but it only does drum parts whereas an 'actual' synth can do pretty much whatever you ask it to do.

But I'm fine with synths. I've posted stuff from / about Mr Moog on this board. I've been hearing synths from way back. Frank Zappa. The Monkees. The Byrds. The Doors. I don't even have to mention the obvious ones!

I've already posted this elsewhere but it's a good quote, imo. From an interview with Bob Moog, 2003, talking about Moog synthesisers

BOB MOOG

"... Musical instruments have always, from the very beginning of human history, used the most advanced technology of their time. Musicians need advanced technology that’s appropriate. Whether you need a particular advanced technology partially depends on what kind of music you want to make and how. Our stringed instruments were developed around three or four hundred years ago, when precision woodworking was the highest technology. Brass instruments were developed when there was really high quality brass and the ability to machine it to create very thin, accurate materials out of brass. The piano came into existence along with manufacturing technology. For most of us, the piano is likely to be the most hi-tech mechanical manufactured product that we will ever have in our homes. No brass instruments, or wood instruments, or mechanical instruments have been developed in the 20th century, because the technology of our time is electronics. For us it’s analog electronics, and now increasingly computer and digital electronics. So, this is an instrument of the 20th century – it doesn’t use the most advanced technology, but it uses one that came into existence during my lifetime, for instance."
www.redbullmusicacademy.com

Bob Moog

Explore the Red Bull Music Academy archive, tracing the global music institution’s more than 20-year history
www.redbullmusicacademy.com www.redbullmusicacademy.com
 
filmandmusic said:
@Agonum penny lane is trumpet and pink floyd is sax in the beginning, not sure about the solo

edit: i still find it hard to distinguish
it doesn’t really matter as I love both I guess 🤪
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I nominate West End Blues by Louis Armstrong - the first ten seconds is all you need. And Baker Street from Gerry Rafferty. Listen to it from 25s - 44s. Imo, the difference between the two doesn't get much clearer than that if you're struggling to distinguish between trumpet and sax.

'Struggling' is the wrong word but it's early, goddammit!


 
filmandmusic said:
But I alrezdy knew Louis is a trumpet player though 😝
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So you only get confused when you don't know who's playing? Bc you can't tell the difference between the two instruments? OK. Got it.

Seriously, mate! I thought if you listened to the sound of a nice, clear example of trumpet playing followed by a really clear sax part it would be dead easy. I thought I'd got the hang of you but clearly I haven't, lol. :ROFLMAO:
 
zinniabooklover said:
So you only get confused when you don't know who's playing? Bc you can't tell the difference between the two instruments? OK. Got it.
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actually yes that’s it
zinniabooklover said:
Seriously, mate! I thought if you listened to the sound of a nice, clear example of trumpet playing followed by a really clear sax part it would be dead easy.
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But it is not 😭
zinniabooklover said:
I thought I'd got the hang of you but clearly I haven't, lol. :ROFLMAO:
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I am a enormous music nutter but I don’t know a damn thing about music. I mean you have read my reviews, you know I’m clueless 😝
 
filmandmusic said:
actually yes that’s it

But it is not 😭

I am a enormous music nutter but I don’t know a damn thing about music. I mean you have read my reviews, you know I’m clueless 😝
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NO !!!!!!!! No, no, no, no!

You just wrote something on another thread and it was dynamite. Oh god, what was it? It was the ballads, wasn't it? It's usually ballads with you. You wrote something exquisitely beautiful. Dang it, now I have to try to find it.

🏃‍♀️
 
zinniabooklover said:
NO !!!!!!!! No, no, no, no!

You just wrote something on another thread and it was dynamite. Oh god, what was it? It was the ballads, wasn't it? It's usually ballads with you. You wrote something exquisitely beautiful. Dang it, now I have to try to find it.

🏃‍♀️
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My writings hide my ineptitude!
 
Maxym said:
I think it's perfect as it is.
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Fair enough. And I mean I am a MJ fan; I love his falsetto, but I feel that it's a bit too much in this song and that maybe if he started out in lower register a falsetto in the end would be more special
 
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