Should the next official album be a Duets album?

[HIStory]

^ I think fans care because that's what they saw from Michael: that commercial success was important to him. He was never an indie artist who said "eff commercial success". He did care about whether his record was Number One or not. A mentality that was installed in him since the Motown days, I think. (Mind you, a lot of artists who pose as "we do not care" do care eventually as well. See the Black Keys last year and how desperate they were to beat Xscape on Billboard to get that Nr 1. and they are supposedly an indie act, so that was funny. But I digress.) But the posthumus career of an artist is different than his career when he was alive and perhaps fans' priorities too should be different and yes, we should not accept everything and anything just for the sake of commercial success.

But for 99% of them that'll be just this one song that they love, and it'll never lead them to learn about Mozart's career or appreciate his art in depth.

I am not sure that a concept like LNFSG (or Xscape) really does nothing for the perseverance of MJ's genuine career (ie. his old songs). We actually have proof that it does: in the simple fact that when Xscape was released there was a rise in the sales of Thriller and other old MJ albums as well. Of course, those albums always chart but when Xscape was released they did sell even more than usual. If Xscape had not been released last year Thriller too would have sold less. Fact.

I think I am somewhere in between. I do not want MJ's art to be watered down and butchered just for the sake of commercial success and just to appeal to the tastes of today's youth and made chart-compatible just to make it chart, but I also do not want the Estate to put MJ's art in this ivory tower where only his old fans are interested. But of course people should be made interested in the real MJ, not something that is just sold under his name but is not really him.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Commercial success was a vital part of Michael's functioning as an artist, but he never allowed it to compromise his integrity as his Estate has so far done. This is where a duets album would fail - contributors would be chosen based largely on mainstream popularity. And that's a problem.

 

[Danja]

Apparently, there's a bunch of unreleased songs with Stevie Wonder.I would only like to see older duets released, such as "I'm In Love Again" with Minnie Riperton or "There Must Be More To Life Than This" with Freddie. Oh, wait...that one's already been ruined, you can hardly hear Michael on that new version.

 

[DuranDuran]

Apparently, there's a bunch of unreleased songs with Stevie Wonder.I would only like to see older duets released, such as "I'm In Love Again" with Minnie Riperton or "There Must Be More To Life Than This" with Freddie. Oh, wait...that one's already been ruined, you can hardly hear Michael on that new version.

But that album was not recorded as duets. Those were solo songs Minnie was working on before she passed. They took her acapellas, recorded some new music and had then popular singers and instrumentalists perform on them. So basically the same thing this thread is about.

 

[HIStory]

Apparently, there's a bunch of unreleased songs with Stevie Wonder.I would only like to see older duets released, such as "I'm In Love Again" with Minnie Riperton or "There Must Be More To Life Than This" with Freddie. Oh, wait...that one's already been ruined, you can hardly hear Michael on that new version.

I think the Minnie Riperton duet was not a real duet. There was a duet album made after her death where various artists (inlcuding MJ) sang on artificial duets with her. So it was the kind of stuff that we are talking about here in this thread.

 

[Danja]

But that album was not recorded as duets. Those were solo songs Minnie was working on before she passed. They took her acapellas, recorded some new music and had then popular singers and instrumentalists perform on them. So basically the same thing this thread is about.

I know, Michael recorded his part after Minnie's passing. I'm just sad about Jay-Z and Usher being on an MJ album...but then again, Michael apparently had no reservations when it came to guest stars (e.g. Heartbreaker)

 

[DuranDuran]

I know, Michael recorded his part after Minnie's passing. I'm just sad about Jay-Z and Usher being on an MJ album...but then again, Michael apparently had no reservations when it came to guest stars (e.g. Heartbreaker)

Didn't Mike actually do a song with Jay-Z that was not released? He also showed up to one of Jay-Z's concerts and there's pictures of it.

 

[Danja]

Didn't Mike actually do a song with Jay-Z that was not released? He also showed up to one of Jay-Z's concerts and there's pictures of it.

I think I saw those pictures somewhere but I didn't know about the song. I wonder what it sounds like, I've only heard YRMW remix.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Didn't Mike actually do a song with Jay-Z that was not released? He also showed up to one of Jay-Z's concerts and there's pictures of it.

MJ made a surprise appearance on June 28th at the ‘Summer Jam 2001’ (Long Island, USA) when Jay-Z brought him on stage:

[video=youtube;Zsd3Em6icc4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsd3Em6icc4[/video]

 

[mj_frenzy]

Commercial success was a vital part of Michael's functioning as an artist, but he never allowed it to compromise his integrity as his Estate has so far done. This is where a duets album would fail - contributors would be chosen based largely on mainstream popularity. And that's a problem.

There is also another problem that should be taken into account: all these contemporized songs (included duets) not only lack originality but also cohesion when it comes to a new, posthumous album.

More specifically, every time MJ released a new studio album, he & his collaborators (producers, engineers, etc.) had a very concrete aim in their minds: all the songs needed to stick together on an album, in other words, to set a specific mood/concept. That explains why many times really good songs never made the official version of an album, for example:

"We knew that ‘You Rock My World’ was going to be a corner-stone of the album, and it set the mood and the feel for the rest of the music… a lot of times, a real good piece of music will never get on the album, only because it just doesn't fit. You know Michael loves drama - if the music doesn't have drama, if it's just a derivative of a piece of music without drama, Michael's not going to go for it." (Bruce Swedien)

 

[lougrizli]

I think Chris Brown could be a good artist for a featuring. Michael is his idol, he did some tributes for him, a song too. He met MJ in 2006, Michael called him for his 18th Birthday and he was supposed to see This Is It rehearsal the day Michael died. But not a featuring on a song like "The Girl Is Mine" I think more something like Billie Jean, PYT, The Way You Make Me Feel.

9:15 for the MJ's part.

 

[MattyJam]

Ugh. The whole idea is horrid. No posthumous duets album. Not now, not ever.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I think I am somewhere in between. I do not want MJ's art to be watered down and butchered just for the sake of commercial success and just to appeal to the tastes of today's youth and made chart-compatible just to make it chart, but I also do not want the Estate to put MJ's art in this ivory tower where only his old fans are interested. But of course people should be made interested in the real MJ, not something that is just sold under his name but is not really him.

Yes I can definitely understand this stance! I am here somewhere in between as well.

 

[DuranDuran]

I think I saw those pictures somewhere but I didn't know about the song. I wonder what it sounds like, I've only heard YRMW remix.

I found something Jay-Z wrote in 2009:

"I try to look for the meaning in things that happen, and it was a tragedy that Michael Jackson passed away, especially for his kids. But on the other side, I think it gave Michael a chance to be celebrated for the genius he was without all the other stuff in the way, and I don’t know if that would ever have happened had he been alive.

He played a concert with me in New York, which was great. He got up and he walked out and the place went mental, guys were just grabbing their hats and throwing them like, "Aiiiiiiiiiieeeeee!"

After that, he did a song called You Rock My World, and I did a remix with him. Then he was on my song Girls, Girls, Girls, singing these background vocals and I didn’t even put his name on it. I remember him calling me and him just talking about, you know, ‘syncopation’ and musician stuff like that. The Michael Jackson I knew was just a musician who loved music."

 

[TinnyandOdd]

First of all, this story is rad. Especially the bit about "The Michael Jackson I knew was just a musician who loved music."

Then he was on my song Girls, Girls, Girls, singing these background vocals and I didn’t even put his name on it.

Hooooold up ... whaaaaat?! Did he do deep background vocals on the single? Because I've been listening to this album since it came out and I have never noticed MJ's vocals? Or did he mean the remix also off the Blueprint album?

 

[SoCav]

Also I think what happened in 2010 discouraged many: the fandom put so much energy and emotion into that fight, with petitions signed by thousands of people and dozens of fan clubs, - and still lost it. Many fans are emotionally exhausted. And 2010 set the standard so low, that now people will embrace literally everything because it's better.

Totally agree with this. During the release of Xscape fans were regularly saying we should be happy with what we got because it was good in comparison to the 'Michael' album. I understand why people wanted something positive after the 'Michael' debacle, I think we all did, and in general that they just want to enjoy the newest MJ products. But imo the standards for a posthumous MJ product should never be "as long as there are no fake tracks, it's all good." Some fans also seem to think posthumous products in general are somehow inherently low quality and that we therefore should not have any expectations, but posthumous releases for other artists show that that is not necessarily true at all.

I am not sure that a concept like LNFSG (or Xscape) really does nothing for the perseverance of MJ's genuine career (ie. his old songs). We actually have proof that it does: in the simple fact that when Xscape was released there was a rise in the sales of Thriller and other old MJ albums as well. Of course, those albums always chart but when Xscape was released they did sell even more than usual. If Xscape had not been released last year Thriller too would have sold less. Fact.

I think I am somewhere in between. I do not want MJ's art to be watered down and butchered just for the sake of commercial success and just to appeal to the tastes of today's youth and made chart-compatible just to make it chart, but I also do not want the Estate to put MJ's art in this ivory tower where only his old fans are interested. But of course people should be made interested in the real MJ, not something that is just sold under his name but is not really him.

Of course, the MJ Estate should not just sit back and refrain from trying to make new MJ fans. Part of preserving Michael's legacy is to make new generations appreciate who he was as an artist and a person. But to do so they need to promote his work, rather than something with his name slapped on it. The LNFSG remix garnered a lot of attention. We can debate whether it should have been made and/or whether it was the right kind of attention, but there was attention in any case, meaning it would have been an opportunity to showcase what Michael was all about. But what did they sell to people? A cd of 'contemporized' tracks accompanied by a documentary showing LA Reid and Timbaland going nuts over their own work and chuckling about the lousy old demos they had to work with ("this one doesn't sound as bad as the rest of em"). This would have been a chance to show to people how Michael worked, what these songs meant to him, what the stories behind them were. Instead, people had to pay extra to get their hands on the randomly thrown together demos, some of which were presented in awful audio quality.

In addition to that the entire promotion surrounding this album, be it the music videos, the Sony Xperia or Jeep tie-in or the Earnest Valentino Billboard Awards projection, it all had to do with 'contemporized Michael'. Michael's own work was not even featured once. If Thriller and other albums made it back onto the charts during that time, I think that's a testament to the quality of Michael's work and his enduring appeal, rather than the promotional efforts by the Estate. Imagine what it could have been had they actually tried to get people interested in Michael's own work along the way.

The entire strategy chosen with Xscape doesn't communicate "look, since we have your attention now, we would really like to show you what an amazing artist Michael Jackson was." Rather, it comes across as a cheap way to make money and, more worryingly, reinforces the all too prevalent perception that Michael Jackson was just the face of a hitmaking operation. A talented face perhaps, but not an amazing artist. And that's an absolute shame.

 

[HIStory]

Of course, the MJ Estate should not just sit back and refrain from trying to make new MJ fans. Part of preserving Michael's legacy is to make new generations appreciate who he was as an artist and a person. But to do so they need to promote his work, rather than something with his name slapped on it. The LNFSG remix garnered a lot of attention. We can debate whether it should have been made and/or whether it was the right kind of attention, but there was attention in any case, meaning it would have been an opportunity to showcase what Michael was all about. But what did they sell to people? A cd of 'contemporized' tracks accompanied by a documentary showing LA Reid and Timbaland going nuts over their own work and chuckling about the lousy old demos they had to work with ("this one doesn't sound as bad as the rest of em"). This would have been a chance to show to people how Michael worked, what these songs meant to him, what the stories behind them were. Instead, people had to pay extra to get their hands on the randomly thrown together demos, some of which were presented in awful audio quality.

In addition to that the entire promotion surrounding this album, be it the music videos, the Sony Xperia or Jeep tie-in or the Earnest Valentino Billboard Awards projection, it all had to do with 'contemporized Michael'. Michael's own work was not even featured once. If Thriller and other albums made it back onto the charts during that time, I think that's a testament to the quality of Michael's work and his enduring appeal, rather than the promotional efforts by the Estate. Imagine what it could have been had they actually tried to get people interested in Michael's own work along the way.

The entire strategy chosen with Xscape doesn't communicate "look, since we have your attention now, we would really like to show you what an amazing artist Michael Jackson was." Rather, it comes across as a cheap way to make money and, more worryingly, reinforces the all too prevalent perception that Michael Jackson was just the face of a hitmaking operation. A talented face perhaps, but not an amazing artist. And that's an absolute shame.

Yes, I agree with that. I did not really talk about the horrible Xscape documentary or the horrible "hologram" and missed opportunities to present Michael as the amazing artist that he was, but rather just what kind of concept could work in the future. I mean putting a bunch of untouched demos on an album may please the purist hard core fans in limited numbers but they probably would not generate any kind of mainstream interest in Michael. And that mainstream interest isn't only good for the Estate/Sony to make money but also to bring attention on Michael as an artist generally and thus also promote his old works. And that did happen with Xscape. I have to agree with you that it did not happen because the Estate put special focus on that aspect, only as a natural process: when an artist puts out a new album that usually generates interest in his old works as well.

But I agree with you that the Estate needs to put more focus on the artistic aspect and generating artistic respect for Michael and his legacy. I don't even know what they were thinking when they left those arrogant, self-serving comments in the Xscape documentary.

So what is your suggestion? What is the right approach, what kind of projects should be done in the future that are both respectful artistically AND also generate sufficient mainstream attention?

 

[Hot_Street]

What happened to the Duets album?

 

[MJJuniorSinceMW]

Since we're going into the 10th year without an album of new MJ material I need a project full of MJ solo material.
Not laboratory duets created after the fact.. Especially I don't want them to release songs complete/finished enough for a solo effort, cutting it into duets. If there's only one verse, or a hook, then damn it, create a duet out of it, but release the OG demo.

BUT.. as we know there are enough tracks which can be released as solo songs. Even when only the leaked stuff is taken into account.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Since we're going into the 10th year without an album of new MJ material I need a project full of MJ solo material.
Not laboratory duets created after the fact.. Especially I don't want them to release songs complete/finished enough for a solo effort, cutting it into duets. If there's only one verse, or a hook, then damn it, create a duet out of it, but release the OG demo.

BUT.. as we know there are enough tracks which can be released as solo songs. Even when only the leaked stuff is taken into account.

At this point they're not prioritizing either stance. Not until they rehabilitate MJs reputation once again.

 

[Hurley509]

At this point they're not prioritizing either stance. Not until they rehabilitate MJs reputation once again.

See I understand this but I think his reputation is as rehabilitated as it's going to get. allegations wont go away and yet he will continue to sell records. But I dont see anything new happening til after the biopic.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

See I understand this but I think his reputation is as rehabilitated as it's going to get. allegations wont go away and yet he will continue to sell records. But I dont see anything new happening til after the biopic.

They can properly debunk Leaving Neverland and they can win whatever litigation about it they can (MJJJ Productions Case, HBO Case)

 

[R1chard]

I bought a duets album in the 90s. It was pretty cool.

I wouldn't be interested in a fake one with a YouTube personality though.

 

[Hot_Street]

Michael about duets:

AD: (Laughing) We have a question from Simon who you’ve already mentioned all the people that have wanted to work with you he wonders “Michael, who would you like to do a duet with. Past or present?”
MJ: Umm… past, it would be somebody like I would say Sarah Vaughan or Nat King Cole. Present, I think Whitney Houston is brilliant and Barbara Streisand has a beautiful voice, you know those kind of artists that are just wonderful.

Get Music – Michael Jackson – Oct 30, 2001

Anthony DeCurtis: Hello Ladies and Gentlemen this is Anthony DeCurtis your on GetMusic.com and we’re here tonight for a very special event. The King of Pop, one of the greatest artists in the histo…

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