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Small but hard Q/A about "Invincible stuff" for true fans

Richard76

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Latter days i gathered some kind of list of Invincible era questions, that i couldn't find an answer for. Seems like nobody has even an guess, how to answer this toughest questions. But maybe somebody can do it on this forum. So, if you are pro or really really clever MJ fan and gonna help me to close these questions. Well, then you are my hero. Ok, let's get this show on the road.

1.What are the sounds in the begining of Unbreakable?(
0:00-0:17) I always wondered what does it mean? Sounds really weird. And i just can't define what it is.... For example in Xscape there was obsious prison theme, in She Drives Me Wild there were "auto" tune. In Unbreakable it sounds like arcade video game sample....Or panther breath.... But it's just my hypothesis.

2.Was Michael voice low pitched in 2000 watts and Shout music? It's just really controversial. Some sources claim, that it was his nature voice without editing.... That he just tried to keep his voice lower and lower during the recording.... Others claim, that he couldn't sing with such low timbre and it was low pitched all in all. As for me, i guess he really tried to sing in specific way, showing us his low part of voice, but there was editing in a low way too.

3.What is the main reason Michael rejected Sony's proposal to tour with Invincible album? There are a lot of theories... I just tired of reading people say, that Michael was exhausted, that he was mad at Sony, that he didn't like most of tracks from Invincible album (that's why only Speechless was included in some rehearsals of This Is It tour), especially Blue Gangsta, which he left off back in 1999...So many speculations... But all in all that is really weird that he didn't promote his best album (according to
his word on interview) with Invincible tour.

4.This one is really ridiculous. Do you remember You Rock My World video? The moment when Michael let's down his hat and starting to walk and then touches his back with really weird movement...(
6:04) So, the question is, What does this mean? 😅 Was it really created by Michael? I'm wondering, he created (co-created) lots of cool and legendary dance moves, that blows off mind lots of poeple all over
the world. And then he created that? Maybe there is some kind of backstory about these motion. Because he definately liked that (he used that on his 30th annyversary perfomance)...
 
That weird walk he does in YRMW video is probably something he has seen in a Fred Astaire film or maybe even from one of the 1930s American crime films but as always he adds his own touches like touching his back like you said to make it his own.
Just guess work here.
 
Richard76 said:
3.What is the main reason Michael rejected Sony's proposal to tour with Invincible album? There are a lot of theories... I just tired of reading people say, that Michael was exhausted, that he was mad at Sony, that he didn't like most of tracks from Invincible album (that's why only Speechless was included in some rehearsals of This Is It tour), especially Blue Gangsta, which he left off back in 1999...So many speculations... But all in all that is really weird that he didn't promote his best album (according to
his word on interview) with Invincible tour.
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There was going to be a Invincible tour, Michael Prince (his sound engineer) said on the MJCast that MJ told him to prepare for a tour on the last day of the 30th anniversary concert but then 9/11 happened. It cancelled any plans for a tour.

Personally I think that it's a good thing that the tour ended up not happening, MJ's drug addiction was at its worst back in the early 2000's and what happened during This Is It would definitely have happened 8 years earlier.
 
filmandmusic said:
That weird walk he does in YRMW video is probably something he has seen in a Fred Astaire film or maybe even from one of the 1930s American crime films but as always he adds his own touches like touching his back like you said to make it his own.
Just guess work here.
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Well you're right, pal, but it just looks so ridiculous just remember moonwalk it looks awesome okay remember ankle breaker it looks fantastic or remember his famous robot walk from from bille jean performances it looks awesome but this motion looks weird really weird I just can't understand why he decided to show it in this strange strange way I mean I don't even know from what angle I have to watch it okay just because when you look from his back it looks well weird and even if you watched from right of him it looks weird too that's why I just don't understand what is it?😂
 
Richard76 said:
Well you're right, pal, but it just looks so ridiculous just remember moonwalk it looks awesome okay remember ankle breaker it looks fantastic or remember his famous robot walk from from bille jean performances it looks awesome but this motion looks weird really weird I just can't understand why he decided to show it in this strange strange way I mean I don't even know from what angle I have to watch it okay just because when you look from his back it looks well weird and even if you watched from right of him it looks weird too that's why I just don't understand what is it?😂
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It got a pretty good reception though when he showed it off at the MSG concerts! I personally like it.
 
The walk is from a Fred Astaire film called Band Wagon, it's the start of the club scene when Astaire walks in. It's the same scene that inspired the Smooth Criminal short film

Around 8 minutes in

The 2000 Watts vocal is edited but I remember Seth Riggs saying Mike's deep voice would surprise his fans. So who knows

The Invincible Tour is a weird one. Some say it was cancelled because of 9/11, like most artists did, others say both Mike and Sony weren't interested in touring in general. Sony pulled Invincible from their major playlist catalogue in 2002, believing promotion of the album was finished. I think 9/11 was a big factor.

As for the Unbreakable sound, no idea. I've always thought it was similar to the panther sound on the Dangerous Tour before Mike toasted onto the stage.

Hope this helps
 
1. To me, it sounds like another MJ exercise in sound design experimentation. I hear what sounds like a tiger growl, and a variety of things sent through flangers and distortion modules. I’d also love to get a peek of the original Pro Tools session to see what they used.

2. “2000 Watts,” “Shout,” and “Whatever Happens” are all digitally lowered, and nobody will convince me otherwise. The tone/texture of his voice does not sound authentic, especially when he starts singing in his upper register. Just compare the vocals on those songs to something like “You Rock My World” or “Beautiful Girl,” which are performed in similar registers but don’t sound unnatural or altered.

3. There were a lot of factors at play regarding the proposed Invincible Tour. There was Michael’s vocal disdain of long terms on the road, the augmenting feud between Michael and Mottola over the album’s budget and promo, Michael being a new father, etc. Per Michael Prince, a tour was in the very early stages of development when 9/11 happened, which was Michael’s final straw. All said, I don’t think there’s a single factor that kept the tour from occurring, but the Twin Towers attacks certainly acted as the nail in the coffin.

4. As others have said, the walk is a tribute to Astaire.
 
AlwaysThere said:
2. “2000 Watts,” “Shout,” and “Whatever Happens” are all digitally lowered, and nobody will convince me otherwise. The tone/texture of his voice does not sound authentic, especially when he starts singing in his upper register. Just compare the vocals on those songs to something like “You Rock My World” or “Beautiful Girl,” which are performed in similar registers but don’t sound unnatural or altered.
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Whatever Happens is not lowered) He sings with his nature pure voice. Just compare vocals from 2000 Watts and WH - they are obviously sounds different.
 
Had MJ been able to pull off a Tour at that time (I really doubt he would since he was barely able to pull off 2 concerts but anyways.) it would've been incredible, imagine songs like Heartbreaker being given a whole new choreography and ballads like Whatever Happens being performed the way Human Nature and Stranger In Moscow were. Maybe Sony was going to force MJ to make another album to promote the tour like they did with the HIStory tour and we were going to see more outtakes from Invincible being finished and being released.
 
Richard76 said:
Whatever Happens is not lowered) He sings with his nature pure voice. Just compare vocals from 2000 Watts and WH - they are obviously sounds different.
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Listen to the last 45-ish seconds, when he’s belting in his upper register. To me, it doesn’t sound natural whatsoever, especially when you compare it to similar belts on “You Rock My World” or “Unbreakable.”
 
ChanceToDance said:
Had MJ been able to pull off a Tour at that time (I really doubt he would since he was barely able to pull off 2 concerts but anyways.) it would've been incredible, imagine songs like Heartbreaker being given a whole new choreography and ballads like Whatever Happens being performed the way Human Nature and Stranger In Moscow were. Maybe Sony was going to force MJ to make another album to promote the tour like they did with the HIStory tour and we were going to see more outtakes from Invincible being finished and being released.
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Actually i have a theory, that we could get a new choreography from Invincible sessions on This Is It tour! There was a video Michael doing some kinda punching moves! Some of them he showed during Billie Jean This Is It reherseals! Correct me if I'm wrong, but i guess these moves are new, and they could be created either during Invicible era or during This Is It era....
 
AlwaysThere said:
Listen to the last 45-ish seconds, when he’s belting in his upper register. To me, it doesn’t sound natural whatsoever, especially when you compare it to similar belts on “You Rock My World” or “Unbreakable.”
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"belting in his upper register" - I have no idea, what you are talking about.... Can you say that in more understandable way?
 
Richard76 said:
Actually i have a theory, that we could get a new choreography from Invincible sessions on This Is It tour! There was a video Michael doing some kinda punching moves! Some of them he showed during Billie Jean This Is It reherseals! Correct me if I'm wrong, but i guess these moves are new, and they could be created either during Invicible era or during This Is It era....
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Eh, likely not, it was just MJ improvising. Like AlwaysThere said the tour was cancelled pretty early on for it to have any concepts made. Otherwise we would've seen new choreographies for the You Rock My World performances rather than MJ just lip-syncing it most of the time.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Eh, likely not, it was just MJ improvising. Like AlwaysThere said the tour was cancelled pretty early on for it to have any concepts made. Otherwise we would've seen new choreographies for the You Rock My World performances rather than MJ just lip-syncing it most of the time.
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There! I found it! 1:21 - looks like new move! But apparently it was created during This Is It rehearsal
 
ChanceToDance said:
That dance move is from the Ghosts short film I think? I haven't watched it in a long time so I'm not sure lol.
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No) There were no punches in Ghosts)
here. this new punch again during billie jean rehearsal (3:01)
 
Richard76 said:
"belting in his upper register" - I have no idea, what you are talking about.... Can you say that in more understandable way?
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“Belting” is a singing technique that produces a high-energy, high-powerful sound—think of it almost like yelling in key/on pitch. Singers will often belt when they’re singing in their “upper register,” which essentially means they’re singing the highest notes in their vocal range. (It’s a bit more complex than that, but that’s without getting into vocal technique and whatnot.) Listen to any song where Michael is singing incredibly high, it almost sounds like yelling, and his voice may even sound a little gritty—that’s an example of his belting!

That said, Michael sounds like Michael no matter what register he’s singing in. But on the Riley tracks, his belts sounds oddly chesty and deep, which isn’t present on any other Invincible tracks or demos. Like I said, compare the end of “Whatever Happens” to the end of “Unbreakable”—there’s a very palpable difference that is, in my opinion, unnatural.
 
It is not just Seth Riggs who says Michael Jackson's deep voice would surprise his fans.

Teddy Riley (who worked on the '2000 Watts' song) is very adamant and states that Michael Jackson does sing that low on the song.

Stuart Brawley also stated that Michael Jackson does sing that low on that song.

But some fans created and posted (on the Internet) a sped-up version of '2000 Watts', in which one can hear Michael Jackson's natural singing voice.

So, according to these fans, in the album version of '2000 Watts' the pitch of his voice was digitally lowered.

The 'You Rock My World' music video is full of bits and pieces taken from certain films, but also from the singer's own career ('Billie Jean', 'Ghosts', and so on).
ChanceToDance said:
Maybe Sony was going to force MJ to make another album to promote the tour like they did with the HIStory tour and we were going to see more outtakes from Invincible being finished and being released.
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That was impossible considering that the contract (between Michael Jackson and Sony) ended in 2002.
 
1. That was the sound of Michaels stomach growling run through a modulator.

2. They overlaid my voice over MJs.

3. We don't know. Michael loved to tour.

4. It's genuinely one of the coolest dances ever. It goes viral all the time.
 
Based on the reaction of the dancers Michael surely would have done that slow thrusting move during the billie jean outro on the shows. That really got them going. The background singers were smiling as well at that point.

4. It's genuinely one of the coolest dances ever. It goes viral all the time.
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I agree I think it would have drawn big reactions on tour
 
ChanceToDance said:
Had MJ been able to pull off a Tour at that time (I really doubt he would since he was barely able to pull off 2 concerts but anyways.) it would've been incredible, imagine songs like Heartbreaker being given a whole new choreography and ballads like Whatever Happens being performed the way Human Nature and Stranger In Moscow were. Maybe Sony was going to force MJ to make another album to promote the tour like they did with the HIStory tour and we were going to see more outtakes from Invincible being finished and being released.
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I doubt Invincible Tour would have been any different from the History Tour. Michael would have most likely lip-synced 95% of the show, with only WBSS and The Jackson 5 medley live, just like how the History Tour was.

But yes, a choregraphy for Heartbreaker would have been epic.
 
Nite Line said:
I doubt Invincible Tour would have been any different from the History Tour. Michael would have most likely lip-synced 95% of the show, with only WBSS and The Jackson 5 medley live, just like how the History Tour was.

But yes, a choregraphy for Heartbreaker would have been epic.
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His voice might at least be better. It certainly couldn't be any worse.
 
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