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Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

Don't expect anything with it if they re-release Dangerous, if this release is anything to go by they won't bother their arses to include anything. Probably just say the same they did with this.
 
OnirMJ said:
No, Michael Jackson's This Is It was distributed by Columbia Pictures. Only Michael Jackson's This Is It (album) was released by Epic as part of the 10 projects deal between MJ's Estate and Sony.



I would love that to happen but I think it's highly unlikely. Yes, it is fan's favourite but it's not that popular outside the fanbase and it's not among critics' favourite. And judging by Bad 25 sales I doubt they will have the courage to release another anniversary album. Maybe Thriller because that will sell, but not Dangerous or any '90s album. That's just reality. You'll all see Dangerous 25 won't happen.

What we need for that kind of releases is collectors label under Sony Music, as I said multiple times already.
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They claimed they heard us about certain things & we've been tlkn about d25 since bad25 so if they really are listening then we need to have it
 
The One is actually pretty great documentary. In my opinion the best one, much better than Spike Lee's Bad 25. The list of guest commentators and celebrities is perfect. Quincy, Pharrell, Beyonce, Wyclef, Missy Elliott... All great artists. And they all say good interesting stuff unlike Bieber, Chris Brown, Mariah, Cee-Lo and Chris Brown in Bad 25.

Also high quality footage from Triumph and HIStory Tours unlike VHS snippets from Bad 25.
 
OnirMJ said:
The One is actually pretty great documentary. In my opinion the best one, much better than Spike Lee's Bad 25. The list of guest commentators and celebrities is perfect. Quincy, Pharrell, Beyonce, Wyclef, Missy Elliott... All great artists. And they all say good interesting stuff unlike Bieber, Chris Brown, Mariah, Cee-Lo and Chris Brown in Bad 25.

Also high quality footage from Triumph and HIStory Tours unlike VHS snippets from Bad 25.
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Ehhh...they kind of were on the same level except on bad25 they went thru each song in detail,but bad had more bts footage. I wish quincy wasn't so sour
 
SmoothMJ said:
But that only keeps MJ's legacy alive within an ever diminishing group of current fans.

I believe Michael's talent, love, and legacy, needs to be introduced and cemented to future generations of music fans.

Projects put out since Michael's passing will never reach the high standards he set. But, as long as they are done in the right spirit - which I believe they are - and they remind people of his creative genius, and get them thinking about his catalogue of work - which I believe they do - then I will support them.

I want to share Michael's genius to the world, not hide it within an ever diminishing pre 2009 community. I think MJ would want that as well.
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I actually agree with you and Rhilo 100% here. I may be giving my own wish list of what I want to see and buy, but more importantly I want Michael's music to live forever. I'm a firm believer that the exposure thru current artists will have kids start exploring and loving his past catalogue of work.
I think the Justin Timberlake duet and the darling video of dancers trying to imitate Michael was fun, infectious, and pretty brilliant.
I think that it was brilliant on Michael's part to reintroduce himself to the new young record buying public by using current artists in The One documentary.

OnirMJ said:
The One is actually pretty great documentary. In my opinion the best one, much better than Spike Lee's Bad 25. The list of guest commentators and celebrities is perfect. Quincy, Pharrell, Beyonce, Wyclef, Missy Elliott... All great artists. And they all say good interesting stuff unlike Bieber, Chris Brown, Mariah, Cee-Lo and Chris Brown in Bad 25.

Also high quality footage from Triumph and HIStory Tours unlike VHS snippets from Bad 25.
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. I think the 2 docs are very similar. All following the blueprint of 'the Magic Returns' doc.

When The One came out I had only heard of about 2 or 3 of the current artists who were commenting. But kids buying music knew.
Same as in Bad25. Kids knew who those people were. And by kids, I mean the record buying 15-35 yrs. old demographic.

Personally, the things I'm dying for would probably come if they decide to do a collectors label.
 
barbee0715 said:
When The One came out I had only heard of about 2 or 3 of the current artists who were commenting. But kids buying music knew.
Same as in Bad25. Kids knew who those people were. And by kids, I mean the record buying 15-35 yrs. old demographic.
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I don't have anything against Kanye West, Chris Brown, Cee-Lo & Mariah being in the documentary but they didn't have anything smart or remotely interesting to say. Kanye even looked as he was bored! And he was most interesting to watch among them! That's why I say The One had better and more interesting guests and commentators. They were all excited to be there and talk about MJ and they all had interesting stories to tell. Cee-Lo talking about "Librarian Girl" was just bad, not funny at all and little disrespectful. Mariah refusing to say who she prefers MJ or Prince was also little disrespectful and not needed to be included. Kanye talking about "Is Annie OK" was also unnecesarry. I won't even mention how unnecesarry Bieber glorification by LA Reid was and his comparison of Baby and The Way You Make Me Feel videos!

I love Kanye West (his music only!) and I like how he always praise, defend and talk good stuff about MJ. I like Chris Brown also. Bieber is the biggest douche in the world, he is annoying as hell but his last few singles are actually pretty good! But they were all redundant in that film.

I just hope that John Legend & The Weekend will have something interesting to say.
 
OnirMJ said:
We don't know that. And even if they do, we don't know if they have the rights to release it. It was different thing when MJ was alive.
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How? Only problem I can think of is that the brothers could block the release if Estate doesn't want to pay them.
 
Interesting that the teaser includes footage of a concert that the Estate cannot release and is not being made available in this product offering. laughs

Some are very resistant in accepting that the Estate is the reason we are not seeing Triumph (or Victory for that matter) in full. It is Michael's image that is being restrained by the Estate, not Michael's brothers or anyone else.

By the way, not all fans treasure Dangerous over all other releases.
 
^^

Did you see any of the Jacksons on that concert footage? Technically speaking only one Jackson can limit the release of the concert if they don't allow their image and likeliness to be used. How do we know that's not the case?
 
Galactus123 said:
Only problem I can think of is that the brothers could block the release if Estate doesn't want to pay them.
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They would get the money for sure, but they don't want the money. They want the Estate. (Randy & Jermaine and maybe the sisters). Marlon, Tito & Jackie were always cool & realistic.
 
Tygger said:
Some are very resistant in accepting that the Estate is the reason we are not seeing Triumph (or Victory for that matter) in full. It is Michael's image that is being restrained by the Estate, not Michael's brothers or anyone else.
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. We don't know that though, Tygger. All we can do is speculate. Personally, I see no benefit for the brothers or the Estate to hold this up. It's a benefit to all to release it.

By the way, not all fans treasure Dangerous over all other releases.
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. Not all. I'm one of those that don't. But I'm definitely in a minority.
 
I can't think of any reason why the brothers wouldn't allow it. They would get money and publicity. It's more likely that the problem is on Estate's side. Heartbreak Hotel from Victory Tour was uploaded on TheJacksonsVEVO youtube channel but it was soon removed.
 
I have watched that trailer in a loop and the more I watch it, the more angered I become. Fans deserve to see that concert in full and tis Michael's estate preventing that.

Anyone seeing a Unity concert(s) would know that the brothers show clips from Victory and other concert footage from Jackson concerts. They do not attempt to show clips that only showcase Michael or not in those Jackson concerts which is what Michael's estate has done here with this trailer. Remember Michael's estate also hindered rehearsal footage from M25 because they control Michael's image, not his brothers.

The brothers share Michael's musical legacy and blood. For those resisting, one can continue to ask if the brothers are hindering concert releases while there is no proof of it. There is proof of the Estate hindering Michael's likeness though. It is Michael's estate that is preventing the release of those concerts.

Remember, Michael's Estate allowed the footage for the trailer, not his brothers. wink
 
Galactus123 said:
I can't think of any reason why the brothers wouldn't allow it.
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Some of them work with the Estate however some of them don't like the Estate. One of the brothers is still (as recent as last month) giving statements against Estate Executors. I'm having a hard time imagining all of the parties would be willing to work together. Blaming Estate for everything is the easiest thing to do. Reality is we don't know what's happening behind closed doors.
 
Tygger said:
I have watched that trailer in a loop and the more I watch it, the more angered I become. Fans deserve to see that concert in full and tis Michael's estate preventing that.

Anyone seeing a Unity concert(s) would know that the brothers show clips from Victory and other concert footage from Jackson concerts. They do not attempt to show clips that only showcase Michael or not in those Jackson concerts which is what Michael's estate has done here with this trailer. Remember Michael's estate also hindered rehearsal footage from M25 because they control Michael's image, not his brothers.

The brothers share Michael's musical legacy and blood. For those resisting, one can continue to ask if the brothers are hindering concert releases while there is no proof of it. There is proof of the Estate hindering Michael's likeness though. It is Michael's estate that is preventing the release of those concerts.

Remember, Michael's Estate allowed the footage for the trailer, not his brothers. wink
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We get it. You like all the brothers. You don't like the Estate. But I think you are not being realistic and objective here.
 
Remember just after MJ died there were reports that La Toya and her boyfriend came to MJ's house and took several hard drives with music. What happened with that? Do we even know that she handed that over to Estate? Somehow I don't think so. I think she hide that somewhere.

Also remember when MICHAEL album was being released, there were reports that some guy, a businessman bought a storage with hundreds of MJ/The Jacksons unreleased recordings from the '70s and early '80s. And at some point he teamed up with some of The Jacksons and some of the family members. What happened with that? Those are the exact same recordings/sessions that are missing now from this release. Remember that all the recordings/demos done prior to Off The Wall were not in Sony's vault and even some of the early demos and stuff MJ was recording alone at his home studio at Encino. I'm positive some of The Jacksons are holding A LOT of unreleased material and they are not even considering handing those material over to Estate. Some of them they don't give a damn about fans, MJ and future releases of MJ music. All they care is taking control of his Estate.
 
barbee0715 said:
.. Not all. I'm one of those that don't. But I'm definitely in a minority.
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According to whom?

Interesting some prefer to ignore facts and instead repeat an anti-Jackson narrative that was publicly supported by a particular executor. That same executor is a producer on this documentary and will profit from it. The same executor allowed the usage of concert footage from a Jackson tour that included only footage of the man whose Estate he represents to promote Lee's documentary instead of the commentators or voice-overs or other footage that will fill the documentary.

As Michael once sang: "you keep dreaming."

Adding: please do not discuss the fiasco that is Michael cd. Lest one now prefers to blame Michael's family for the fact his Estate allowed three faux songs on Michael's discography. If the family is holding hostage Michael's music, what have done with it but, keep it safe? Have they allowed it to leak as Sony did?

Lastly: be honest. If the Jacksons were blameworthy, the Estate would release a statement as they always do to defend themselves. This last statement blamed the man they represent for this lazy release so the Estate has no shyness in stating a Jackson(s) is preventing them from doing an action that benefits Michael's fans.
 
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ivy said:
Some of them work with the Estate however some of them don't like the Estate. One of the brothers is still (as recent as last month) giving statements against Estate Executors. I'm having a hard time imagining all of the parties would be willing to work together. Blaming Estate for everything is the easiest thing to do. Reality is we don't know what's happening behind closed doors.
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Oh I didn't know that. I haven't been following what the brothers do much. I'm sure there is blaim in both sides. You are right that we can't really know what is happening. Maybe they could release the concert but they just haven't.
 
OnirMJ said:
We get it. You like all the brothers. You don't like the Estate. But I think you are not being realistic and objective here.
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I like all the brothers. (Although some have done things in the past I don't like-who doesn't ??). I like Branca (although he's done things I didn't always like). I can't say anything about McClain because I didn't follow what he did for years and years. I just think they need to put on their big boy pants and start negotiating.
There is obviously stuff here that we have no clue about.

Tygger said:
According to whom?.
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According to 99% of the posts whenever any song on Dangerous or the album itself is brought up.
 
Barbee0715, OnirMJ was referring to me. Instead of replying specifically to that comment, I am simply waiting for proof the Jackson brothers have hindered anything Michael related since their brother's passing as we know Michael's Estate has done. We do know the brother's Vevo channel had clips of Victory and those were removed by Sony, not the brothers. Those who have seen a Unity concert(s) know there are clips of Michael and his brothers performing during Victory and others.

Yet I am supposed to believe there is something "going on behind close doors" when it is public knowledge that there is distaste on both sides. However; only the Estate controls Michael's image, not his brothers or any Jackson. Tis foolish to believe one can topple an estate by preventing a concert that one does not have the control to prevent.

As for the Dangerous, I believe you may understand such posts do not represent the full fan community.
 
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Tygger said:
However; only the Estate controls Michael's image, not his brothers or any Jackson. Tis foolish to believe one can topple an estate by preventing a concert that one does not have the control to prevent.
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People weren't talking about Michael's image. The issue is the brothers image or likeliness. Are you claiming that Jacksons have no control over their image and likeliness?
 
Ivy, do remember M25 rehearsals that included all brothers images but, it was Michael's image that the Estate controls that was not allowed? Do you remember clips of the Victory tour removed from the Jacksons' Vevo channel?

You seem to have noticed only Michael's image is included in the teaser/trailer for Lee's documentary.

That answers your question.
 
Hess;4127450 said:
To me that seems like a very fair price. - In Denmark a new Blu-Ray often cost £20 - so to get both tha album and the new Spike Lee doc for just £21 does not seem like much at all IMO - not in Denmark anyway... I will buy for sure. I am looking very much forward to the doc by Spike Lee. - I bought the BAD25 doc too - and though I would have liked subtitles and extra material - I really enjoy the doc, it was worth every penny - and I am sure OTW-doc will be great too!
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I agree it's a decent price for the package. I'd say mid-priced, not cheap and not overly expensive. But you've missed my point entirely. The Estate aren't giving me the option of the blu-ray only. They are forcing me to re-purchase the Off the Wall album to get the new content. If you've followed this thread, you'll have noticed my concern that the price of the package was going to reflect the inclusion of the CD. And as it turns out, it does. If the cost of the original album was absorbed into the cost of the blu-ray I would have no problem. They elected to hit fans in the pockets, knowing that by adding something they already had, they'd have an excuse to charge more. That, to me, is exploitative. Sure, for members of the public who don't already have Off the Wall it's fine and some fans will be delighted to have the package itself - the box itself - but please understand I am talking about content. Sure I could download it, but I never download films I intend to rewatch several times and keep for the rest of my life.

A major motion picture newly released on blu-ray in the UK comes in around 16 pounds rising to around 20 for 3D versions, steelbooks etc. So yes, £21 pounds is far too expensive for a blu-ray documentary of 110 minutes runtime - should I consider that to be the cost for the only thing I am interested in.

Wow. - This is just one of those awful, very very stupid comments I try not to reply to, but this time I will.
How on earth can you say people gets exploited? They do have brains you know, right? They can make decisions themselves, I hope you realise that..? They can decide for themselves whether or not they think it's worth the money... If they think the price is fair for a fantastic album and a great doc by Spike Lee about a very intresting period in MJ's life - then they will buy it... If they think it's too expensive for an album they already have and a new doc - they will not buy... Easy as that !! People earn their own money and can decide for themselves what they think is fair. so don't say they are just too stupid to realise they are being exploited...
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There's no need to be rude. See above.
 
Tygger said:
Ivy, do remember M25 rehearsals that included all brothers images but, it was Michael's image that the Estate controls that was not allowed? Do you remember clips of the Victory tour removed from the Jacksons' Vevo channel?

You seem to have noticed only Michael's image is included in the teaser/trailer for Lee's documentary.

That answers your question.
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No it doesn't answer my question. All of those show Estate controls Michael's image & likeliness - which we all know and agree. However my question got nothing to do with Michael's image.

I'm asking you who do you think controls Jackson brothers image and likeliness? Do you claim for example MJ Estate can release a concert footage that includes let's say Randy Jackson without needing to ask his permission?

If you think just like Michael's Estate controls Michael's image and likeliness, his brothers will control their own image and likeliness. If that's the case, can't one or more brothers stop the release of Jacksons concert if they don't give permission?
 
ChrisC said:
If you've followed this thread, you'll have noticed my concern that the price of the package was going to reflect the inclusion of the CD. And as it turns out, it does. If the cost of the original album was absorbed into the cost of the blu-ray I would have no problem. They elected to hit fans in the pockets, knowing that by adding something they already had, they'd have an excuse to charge more. That, to me, is exploitative.
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actually something interesting here

MJ website store has just relisted Bad25 documentary for sale. It's a standalone release. According to that Bad 25 documentary is $24.98 for Bluray and $14.98 for DVD. OTW CD + Bluray documentary is listed for $26.98. That's only $2 difference. OTW CD +DVD is $21.98 which is $7 difference.

In other words Bluray seems to a pretty good deal with only being $2 more than a standalone Bluray documentary price. If you buy DVD of the documentary you are paying for the CD price as well.
 
ivy;4127709 said:
actually something interesting here

MJ website store has just relisted Bad25 documentary for sale. It's a standalone release. According to that Bad 25 documentary is $24.98 for Bluray and $14.98 for DVD. OTW CD + Bluray documentary is listed for $26.98. That's only $2 difference. OTW CD +DVD is $21.98 which is $7 difference.

In other words Bluray seems to a pretty good deal with only being $2 more than a standalone Bluray documentary price. If you buy DVD of the documentary you are paying for the CD price as well.
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When Bad 25 documentary was originally sold through the MJ shop it cost £14.99 for the blu-ray. I guess they put the price up now that it's become hard to find? Who knows.

£14.99 is an acceptable price for the blu-ray. £21 not so much.
 
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