Spike Lee should stop making MJ documentaries ? Your thoughts ?

[SoCav]

Yes!!! Absolutely fantastic!! With a name like that you'ed think I'd remember. That footage with his band and how their chemistry built, with the drummer watching his every move and Elvis' relationship with his backing singers, and him pranking one them and making her jump lol. Saw what I felt were a lot of similarities between Elvis and MJ, both very warm, humble and personable people. Elvis was so bloody funny and loved his fans also. That moment when he came into the audience and kissed all the ladies. So many wonderful moments like what seemed like an after show party during the credits at the end with Sammy Davis. I'm gonna buy this on bluray if I see it. It was excellent.

That's The Way It Is is fantastic, one of my favourite music documentaries/concert films. That is, the 2001 cut which does not include the talking heads!

I think these two points touch upon a really interesting aspect:

Absolutely brilliant and it didn't in any way pander to none-fans or potential fans. I mean it's Elvis, you'll like it or you won't, and even if you won't you'll still respect it for what it is, it's authentic and real and raw. And that's where I think the whole Michael Jackson thing fails at times. For some reason with Michael Jackson there's a sort of desperation to try to make him appeal to the entire world and their dog and by doing so it sometimes appeals less because it loses that authenticity.

Yes I think so. His documentaries contain very little new information and seem to just want to reiterate how great MJ is. That's great and all, but I actually want to hear how the album was created, I don't need to hear how great MJ was over and over again.

I agree with you aazzaabb that the strength of That's The Way It Is is that you simply get to see Elvis and his band rehearsing and then performing. There are no talking heads, there's no narrator.

MJ's Estate/Spike Lee do not seem to have the confidence in the material to let it speak for itself. They constantly seem to be searching for external validation, be it by focusing heavily on modern artists as talking heads to reiterate how great MJ is in a documentary, or hiring modern producers to get him a #1 hit at all costs (even if the cost is remixing his own music). As you say, authenticity is lost this way. And I also think it is counterproductive. I think simply letting the work speak for itself is much more powerful for fans and non-fans alike. One of the fundamental rules of good storytelling is that it is better to show rather than tell.

Of course, the OTW documentary is not directly comparable with That's The Way It Is. And there is nothing wrong with talking heads per se. However, why not focus on having MJ's collaborators describe the work they did with Michael, and really zoom in on the work? Instead of having tons of people tell the viewers that the album is great, just show what it is all about, all the hard work and creativity that went into it, so that the viewers themselves can come to the conclusion that it is great.

This Is It is the only posthumous release that largely took this approach. Bad 25 did as well at times (the unreleased songs, Wembley, some parts of the documentary). There are even some moments in the OTW docu where this approach is taken - the live footage, the parts where Michael talks, the very brief snippets of demo's/outtakes (like the She's Out Of My Life ending). But these moments are few and far between, and most of the time get quickly interrupted by another talking head saying something unrelated to the making of the album....

 

[Michaels Lover]

^^Yes indeed it was excellent! Any extras on the DVD?

Not that I can remember. Its been a zillion years since I last saw it. But I think there's more than one version of the DVD. One with more extras/2 DVDs

 

[SoCav]

^^Yes indeed it was excellent! Any extras on the DVD?

Not that I can remember. Its been a zillion years since I last saw it. But I think there's more than one version of the DVD. One with more extras/2 DVDs

There are some extras/outtakes, but the quality is really bad. When the Blu-Ray edition first came out, they were supposed to be included in higher quality, but for some unclear reason this never happened.

Sony did release a very cool 8 cd/2 dvd box in 2014. The dvd's were the 2001 and original edition of the film (the latter is still worth a watch, because some songs that were in the original were replaced with different songs in the 2001 cut, including imo one of the highlights of the show, I Just Can't Help Believin'), the cd's contained the original soundtrack album + outtakes and the single versions, 6 complete remastered live shows from August 10 till August 13, and a disc with highlights from the rehearsals. Note that this was not a collectors label release, but deemed interesting enough as a general release by Sony. That should give someone who thinks MJ original material is only releasable if packaged along with remixes pause.

If you like the rehearsals, there are also multiple bootlegs with complete rehearsal sessions available in really good quality. These are some of my favourite Elvis boots, because it feels like you are right there with him and the band, and the atmosphere is so cool and loose, while the band is super tight. There's also much more footage from both the rehearsals and the concerts circulating among fans, but all in relatively low quality. PM me if you want more info, I don't mean to go too offtopic (sorry, I know I already did).

 

[WildStyle]

I certainly would prefer another director to take over for future projects. I thought Bad 25 had several flaws but was interesting overall (the unreleased footage helped). This latest OTW docu was really pretty bad though, imo.

Just ask yourself: what does a viewer really learn from this documentary about the making of Off The Wall? You can get an idea of the events leading up to it, but because of the format that was used you got 20 years condensed into 45 minutes, which automatically means it is not very in depth. Then you learn how people like Rosie Perez and Questlove felt and feel about the album, and how it influenced some current musicians like Mark Ronson. Hardly any information is presented about the actual making of the album. The few moments where it does get into it, like the interview with Tom Bahler, it is incredibly brief (cause it's more interesting to show a mash-up of Delirious and unreleased live footage of She's Out Of My Life).

The retort that not everything has to be aimed at the hardcore fanbase makes no sense to me. Is it really more interesting for the general public to hear that it would be embarrassing to dance to Get On The Floor by yourself, that Rock With You was a popular rollerskating track, and that Spike Lee's love interest was not interested in seeing The Wiz with him (seriously, the guy interviewed himself for THAT?), than to learn more about Michael's recording sessions, the songwriting, how the songs were developed, and live footage? Cause I do not believe that at all. I'm not talking about technical details here like which synth was used on which track. I would love to hear that sort of stuff myself but understand that that is probably uninteresting to most people. But something like hearing an early demo of I Can't Help It, that was recorded live with a band? I think anyone would prefer that over some of the non-stories we got.

For the people saying we should be happy because it is positive - well sure, it is nice that we at least get a documentary that is positive. But just that does not make it good. And let's be realistic: the Estate is only going to release a documentary like this once, unless we're perhaps talking about the far-far future. So it is easy to say "why would you want to stop anyone from making something positive? Anyone is free to make what they want" but that's not how it works. Only an officially endorsed documentary is going to work, because you need access to Michael's music and image to really make a great documentary. And they're not going to give that to more than one person.

I can see where you are coming from here, but I looked at the documentary, as the title states, as a story of Michael's journey from Motown to Off The Wall rather than a making of Off the Wall project. In that way, I thought overall it was excellent. Few things I would have changed (you touched on some of them), but overall I thought it was very good. Certainly miles better and with much more heart than Bad 25.

 

[ChrisC]

I can see where you are coming from here, but I looked at the documentary, as the title states, as a story of Michael's journey from Motown to Off The Wall rather than a making of Off the Wall project. In that way, I thought overall it was excellent. Few things I would have changed (you touched on some of them), but overall I thought it was very good. Certainly miles better and with much more heart than Bad 25.

But then it IS packaged with Off the Wall and a sizeable portion of the runtime (half?) is devoted to a track-by-track look at the Off the Wall album.

If it really was just about the journey (which I'd more than welcome), to distill all those years and experience, and artistic expressions, and personal development, into 40 minutes is, to me, so painfully inadequate.

It ignored so much about the journey, then gleefully glided over Off the Wall. It's a pleasant, fluffy piece. To me, that's all.

I did however love the range of talking heads there expressing the influence Michael had on them, ballet, film producers and directors, sport stars etc. Not just Chris Brown and Usher...