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Spike Lee should stop making MJ documentaries ? Your thoughts ?

SheilaMJFan4Ever said:
You created a thread ASKING for people's opinions, then complain when they give it. Sounds like you're just here to troll and/or start some drama.

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I agree so true that why it is important to respect each others opinions.

Let stay on topic.
 
Did I say that I want a documentary about the making of the Dangerous Album ? I said Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible ERA, so yeah even footage of Michael taking a shit should be included. Don't try to return my words against me.

For the one who said I'm a troll because I ask for opinions and critic. You give me your opinion, I don't agreed with you so I answer.
It seems that everybody is happy with what they got just because we would never have any chance to see it if they don't do it. Traders gave you more than this ****ing Estate.;)

Did I also said I want Spike Lee out of the projects because David Gest's documentary was better ? NOPE. He should stop only because his documentaries are "interesting" for the general public, not for the "hard-core fans" like y'all called it.

There will always be someone to not be satisfied, you said ? LOL. I'm not satisfied with THEIR released. Why you never see someone critic an official album ? (Bad, Dangerous, HIStory etc..) because there's nothing to say.
 
lougrizli said:
Did I say that I want a documentary about the making of the Dangerous Album ? I said Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible ERA, so yeah even footage of Michael taking a shit should be included. Don't try to return my words against me.

For the one who said I'm a troll because I ask for opinions and critic. You give me your opinion, I don't agreed with you so I answer.
It seems that everybody is happy with what they got just because we would never have any chance to see it if they don't do it. Traders gave you more than this ****ing Estate.;)

Did I also said I want Spike Lee out of the projects because David Gest's documentary was better ? NOPE. He should stop only because his documentaries are "interesting" for the general public, not for the "hard-core fans" like y'all called it.

There will always be someone to not be satisfied, you said ? LOL. I'm not satisfied with THEIR released. Why you never see someone critic an official album ? (Bad, Dangerous, HIStory etc..) because there's nothing to say.
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That should be released in cinemas in 3D!!!!!!!
 
innuendo141 said:
Not necessarily. I don't think he's doing a bad job, but I wouldn't mind someone different for a different approach to another album either.
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But not many directors are as passionate about MJ than Spike is.
 
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Really what is wrong with his directing style with the MJ stuff?? Is it just our fan way of saying the documentaries don't have enough new MJ footage?? Cuz I don't remember anyone talking like this for BAD 25 and now they both are not 'good enough'...

My guess would be if 5 minutes of interview footage was replaced for MJ never seen footage, there would be a different tune.. Probably an MJ tune lol
 
I'm not the biggest fan of Spike Lee at all, but I enjoyed most of the "Bad 25" and "Off the Wall" documentaries. If anybody does one on "HIStory" or "Invincible", I'd really want them to interview Michael's other family members...especially Janet, Prince, and Paris.
 
Spike did open it up to the family only ones appear was Marlon,Jackie and Katherine and Joe.
 
Moviefan2k4 said:
I'm not the biggest fan of Spike Lee at all, but I enjoyed most of the "Bad 25" and "Off the Wall" documentaries. If anybody does one on "HIStory" or "Invincible", I'd really want them to interview Michael's other family members...especially Janet, Prince, and Paris.
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I doubt his kids would participate in a documentary about his work, or that anyone would ask them to
 
Why is all the blame directed at Spike when he wasn't the only one in involved in making the films. The estate were involved and Branca himself helped with the editing.

Spike did a good job and looking at the responses it recieved from fans and the general, I think it did well and what is was supposed to do
 
I think it can be a good thing to have another director,but not because Spike Lee is a bad director .
A new director can see it with other eyes- but still make it positive.
How would a female director do it for example
Michael didn´t use the same director in all his videos..
 
I think it's a relative question. In my opinion, Spike has fared better than all the previous documentary makers (and even better than Michael/Sony with "The One" in 2003). Of course, the official endorsement and access to footage and people helped. But I also agree with points SoCav and AlwaysThere made, and "highlights influence rather than gives context" is a very apt description of the problem. That tradition of highlighting influence/reach was started by Michael himself (as a means to his goal to immortalize himself, I believe). But now I think his immortality and influence are secured and undisputed, and it's time add a bit more depth and help him make the transition from the category of the most influential pop icons on the planet into the category of most talented and valued artists. The question is, who could do it better than Spike Lee has done.
 
morinen said:
I think it's a relative question. In my opinion, Spike has fared better than all the previous documentary makers (and even better than Michael/Sony with "The One" in 2003). Of course, the official endorsement and access to footage and people helped. But I also agree with points SoCav and AlwaysThere made, and "highlights influence rather than gives context" is a very apt description of the problem. That tradition of highlighting influence/reach was started by Michael himself (as a means to his goal to immortalize himself, I believe). But now I think his immortality and influence are secured and undisputed, and it's time add a bit more depth and help him make the transition from the category of the most influential pop icons on the planet into the category of most talented and valued artists. The question is, who could do it better than Spike Lee has done.
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My thought's exactly! As the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
 
I definitely want Spike to do History since he was involved in that project, and the social issues on that album are close to his heart. No doubt reason why Michael was determined to have him direct TDCAU.
If Spike was out of the picture tho, I would consider Martin Scorsese.
 
barbee0715 said:
I definitely want Spike to do History since he was involved in that project, and the social issues on that album are close to his heart. No doubt reason why Michael was determined to have him direct TDCAU.
If Spike was out of the picture tho, I would consider Martin Scorsese.
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Martin Scorsese would be AMAZING. He did this 4 hour doco on George Harrison's life that I absolutely loved. I definitely want Steve involved in HIStory (ie: interviewed) but I would really love Martin to do one. Don't think he will though, he's really busy with projects these next few years.
 
Yes I think so. His documentaries contain very little new information and seem to just want to reiterate how great MJ is. That's great and all, but I actually want to hear how the album was created, I don't need to hear how great MJ was over and over again. The OTW docu was crap imo. Only worth watching until about half way through. Way too much of The Weeknd and other modern people. Why the hell do I as a fan care about what he thinks? I'd like actual documentaries that go in depth about the making of the album instead of skimming over it and hearing how modern artists think MJ is great.
 
^^^

It's not The Estates job, or Spike Lee's job, just to make docs that appeal to the hardcore fans. This doc is for a wider audience.

I appreciate it may not be 'enough' for a few fans - and looking at the positive reviews, it is only a few - but, so what?
 
SmoothMJ said:
^^^

It's not The Estates job, or Spike Lee's job, just to make docs that appeal to the hardcore fans. This doc is for a wider audience.

I appreciate it may not be 'enough' for a few fans - and looking at the positive reviews, it is only a few - but, so what?
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Almost everything the estate has done has been for the wider audience. I'm waiting for the day they put actual effort into a project and I'm yet to see it. Crappy remixes and documentaries galore. The only good thing they have done is B25, the Bad25 documentary was at least watchable all the way through, and they've abandoned projects like that as they don't bring in all those much needed $$$. So we get a barebones release of OTW with the same Crappy mastering, no new bonus tracks and a boring documentary with lots of talking heads and barely any new content, oh wait, we got some chalk, I take my earlier statement back.
 
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^^^

Appealing to a wider audience is not an excuse to ignore the larger fan base.

Bad25 was something for everyone. It touched on facts and information that we've known for years as well as share stories and show footage that we didn't (not to mention that the full package included music that could appeal to everyone). It was exquisitely done.

Off the Wall was the equivalent of a YouTube clip compilation of current artists applauding the album.

The first half was actually incredibly informative and I would recommend it to anyone hoping to learn more about that period. But the Off the Wall section was absolutely abysmal. I can recall very few moments in which any sort of information, known or not, was acknowledged -- the majority of the run time was Questlove and Rosie Perez speaking about how they liked the album and how they liked Michael.

Documentaries on famous albums should more or less be required to have a section in which they show the record's influence on contemporary culture, but Spike overstepped it by a mile.

Producing a documentary that garners positive reviews for Michael's catalog is an incredible thing. But why can't we do something that does both -- teaches as well as entertains? Spike hasn't proven himself FULLY capable of doing so.

There are dozens of documentaries that are successful in that regard.

Also, as SmoothGangsta said above me, the Estate focuses almost predominantly on the wider audience. After their Sony contract they need to forget focusing on that and just focus on the fans, as the estates of Elvis/Jimi Hendrix/The Beatles do.
 
AlwaysThere said:
^^^

Appealing to a wider audience is not an excuse to ignore the larger fan base.

Bad25 was something for everyone. It touched on facts and information that we've known for years as well as share stories and show footage that we didn't (not to mention that the full package included music that could appeal to everyone). It was exquisitely done.

Off the Wall was the equivalent of a YouTube clip compilation of current artists applauding the album.

The first half was actually incredibly informative and I would recommend it to anyone hoping to learn more about that period. But the Off the Wall section was absolutely abysmal. I can recall very few moments in which any sort of information, known or not, was acknowledged -- the majority of the run time was Questlove and Rosie Perez speaking about how they liked the album and how they liked Michael.

Documentaries on famous albums should more or less be required to have a section in which they show the record's influence on contemporary culture, but Spike overstepped it by a mile.

Producing a documentary that garners positive reviews for Michael's catalog is an incredible thing. But why can't we do something that does both -- teaches as well as entertains? Spike hasn't proven himself FULLY capable of doing so.

There are dozens of documentaries that are successful in that regard.

Also, as SmoothGangsta said above me, the Estate focuses almost predominantly on the wider audience. After their Sony contract they need to forget focusing on that and just focus on the fans, as the estates of Elvis/Jimi Hendrix/The Beatles do.
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But the larger fan base prior to Bad's release was shunned out for ages and still not being recognized
 
Barbee got there before me with Martin Scorsese! His 2-part 4 hour plus Dylan documentary No Direction Home is one of my all time favourite documentaries! Scorsese goes deep though and I would imagine his possible willingness to deal with some of the darker issues and really probe into the creative process wouldn't perhaps suit the estates desire to have a more watered down santised presentation that appeals to the broadest audience possible. I think in that sense the estate sometimes miss the point.

But that said I enjoyed Bad25 although it wasn't without a few little flaws. Overall I thought Bad25 was good. I haven't seen Spikes Motown to Off The Wall yet as on both the opertunities I've had to buy it over the past few days I've just not felt compelled to buy the package. On both occasions when I picked it up and I could hear the piece of chalk slide around inside it majorly turned me off. I'm sorry, I know it's a bit annoying to keep hearing it, but a piece of chalk?? It's not even that it's a novelty factor which I feel really cheapens it, but it's not even good novelty! It's such a bare bones package and there's zero consistency. It sort of feels like with every release their thinking "what shall we try this time??" How about trying consistency?? And also, the DVD you pay for should include the extra footage. That should just go without saying.

Lastnight I watched an Elvis documentary/concert of his Vegas shows, it was like part This Is It rehearsing with his band and seeing their chemistry grow and then performances taken from 6 different nights, fully restored to HD bluray standard or whatever and it was just brilliant! Absolutely brilliant and it didn't in any way pander to none-fans or potential fans. I mean it's Elvis, you'll like it or you won't, and even if you won't you'll still respect it for what it is, it's authentic and real and raw. And that's where I think the whole Michael Jackson thing fails at times. For some reason with Michael Jackson there's a sort of desperation to try to make him appeal to the entire world and their dog and by doing so it sometimes appeals less because it loses that authenticity.

I'll enjoy this latest documentary if it ever comes on TV, but I'm not rushing out to buy this one, although I probably will at some point as I seem to always do with regards Michael Jackson for some unkown reason. I'll reserve judgement u till I watch it, and I think at this point Spike Lee should do the Thriller one and complete his trilogy. And it's nice to get a little different fan perspective from AlwagsThere, Innuendo, Analogue and a few others, nice to hear different opinions. I think The Legend Continues released in the 80's is probably still my favourite, and that David Guest documentary I actually went out and bought was the most boring drawn out snooze fest EVER!!
 
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aazzaabb said:
Lastnight I watched an Elvis documentary/concert of his Vegas shows, it was like part This Is It rehearsing with his band and seeing their chemistry grow and then performances taken from 6 different nights, fully restored to HD bluray standard or whatever and it was just brilliant! Absolutely brilliant and it didn't in any way pander to none-fans or potential fans!
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That's The Way It Is? I love it, I have it too
 
aazzaabb said:
I haven't seen Spikes Motown to Off The Wall yet as on both the opertunities I've had to buy it over the past few days I've just not felt compelled to buy the package. On both occasions when I picked it up and I could hear the piece of chalk slide around inside it majorly turned me off. I'm sorry, I know it's a bit annoying to keep hearing it, but a piece of chalk?? It's not even that it's a novelty factor which I feel really cheapens it, but it's not even good novelty! It's such a bare bones package and there's zero consistency. It sort of feels like with every release their thinking "what shall we try this time??" How about trying consistency?? And also, the DVD you pay for should include the extra footage. That should just go without saying.
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Honestly I recommend you finding a download or stream of the movie. If when you finish you feel it's a doco you can watch multiple times, then I'd recommend buying the CD/DVD set (I think the chalk "box" is seperate from the main package once you open it up, so you can just get rid of it apparently).

Personally, I haven't bought the package, in fact I kinda forgot it was coming out a few days ago. I downloaded it like 3 weeks ago and while I did enjoy it, I haven't felt the slightest urge to re-watch it nor do I see myself watching it again for a long time. On top of that, I'm not repurchasing an album I already have, especially one that lacks new material.
 
Michaels Lover said:
That's The Way It Is? I love it, I have it too
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Yes!!! Absolutely fantastic!! With a name like that you'ed think I'd remember. That footage with his band and how their chemistry built, with the drummer watching his every move and Elvis' relationship with his backing singers, and him pranking one them and making her jump lol. Saw what I felt were a lot of similarities between Elvis and MJ, both very warm, humble and personable people. Elvis was so bloody funny and loved his fans also. That moment when he came into the audience and kissed all the ladies. So many wonderful moments like what seemed like an after show party during the credits at the end with Sammy Davis. I'm gonna buy this on bluray if I see it. It was excellent.

@HIStoric, thanks man. I think I'll view it first before I spend money on it for sure. Otherwise it may possibly only sit on a shelf for eternity. It's not like I can't afford it or anything, it's just the principle at this point. I don't really want to buy the album AGAIN.
 
I just hope a new doc will focus more on the songs. How they where made etc. - hopefully there are more studio footage and behind the scenes footage for Thriller, Dangerous and HIStory.

It should of course focus on the album - but it should really focus on the entire Era. - The Tour that promoted the album, the music videos etc. And I would like much more in-depth info on how the sounds where made, how MJ danced in the studio while recording, where he did record etc. etc.

I do not care much who the director is - I care more about the result.
 
aazzaabb said:
Yes!!! Absolutely fantastic!! With a name like that you'ed think I'd remember. That footage with his band and how their chemistry built, with the drummer watching his every move and Elvis' relationship with his backing singers, and him pranking one them and making her jump lol. Saw what I felt were a lot of similarities between Elvis and MJ, both very warm, humble and personable people. Elvis was so bloody funny and loved his fans also. That moment when he came into the audience and kissed all the ladies. So many wonderful moments like what seemed like an after show party during the credits at the end with Sammy Davis. I'm gonna buy this on bluray if I see it. It was excellent.
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yes, it is very funny and very good :D I have a friend who is Elvis fan, and I saw it at his house. it was the first footage I ever saw with Elvis, and I had to get the DVD myself after I had seen it :D
 
^^Yes indeed it was excellent! Any extras on the DVD?
 
SoCav said:
I certainly would prefer another director to take over for future projects. I thought Bad 25 had several flaws but was interesting overall (the unreleased footage helped). This latest OTW docu was really pretty bad though, imo.

Just ask yourself: what does a viewer really learn from this documentary about the making of Off The Wall? You can get an idea of the events leading up to it, but because of the format that was used you got 20 years condensed into 45 minutes, which automatically means it is not very in depth. Then you learn how people like Rosie Perez and Questlove felt and feel about the album, and how it influenced some current musicians like Mark Ronson. Hardly any information is presented about the actual making of the album. The few moments where it does get into it, like the interview with Tom Bahler, it is incredibly brief (cause it's more interesting to show a mash-up of Delirious and unreleased live footage of She's Out Of My Life).

The retort that not everything has to be aimed at the hardcore fanbase makes no sense to me. Is it really more interesting for the general public to hear that it would be embarrassing to dance to Get On The Floor by yourself, that Rock With You was a popular rollerskating track, and that Spike Lee's love interest was not interested in seeing The Wiz with him (seriously, the guy interviewed himself for THAT?), than to learn more about Michael's recording sessions, the songwriting, how the songs were developed, and live footage? Cause I do not believe that at all. I'm not talking about technical details here like which synth was used on which track. I would love to hear that sort of stuff myself but understand that that is probably uninteresting to most people. But something like hearing an early demo of I Can't Help It, that was recorded live with a band? I think anyone would prefer that over some of the non-stories we got.

For the people saying we should be happy because it is positive - well sure, it is nice that we at least get a documentary that is positive. But just that does not make it good. And let's be realistic: the Estate is only going to release a documentary like this once, unless we're perhaps talking about the far-far future. So it is easy to say "why would you want to stop anyone from making something positive? Anyone is free to make what they want" but that's not how it works. Only an officially endorsed documentary is going to work, because you need access to Michael's music and image to really make a great documentary. And they're not going to give that to more than one person.
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So well said. I agree with everything.
 
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