Spin Off From The Faking Michael Podcast Thread and The Wider Issue of the Fake Songs

[Moonstreet]

Now that everything is out in the open, now that Vera won the court case and the songs were quietly removed without any official acknowledgement, those that were part of the fan community back in 2010, how do you feel now?

How do you feel having experienced it in real time, witnessing the fan against fan fighting? To those who 100% believed the songs were really Michael, who very aggressively would not tolerate any other opinion? To all those who who literally tore the fan community apart and banned people because they questioned the songs?

To those who from day one questioned the songs, but were too afraid to say publicly as you saw how you would be ostracized from the community.

Did questioning the songs have a deeper meaning, did it make you question being a fan? Did you believe the songs were real out of grief or did you just take things at face value? Did your belief that the songs were real come from being influenced by what others said? XYZ person said they were real, so I trust xyz person. Did your dislike of certain people influence your thinking, as in I never liked xyz fan, so I dont believe them when they say the songs are fake.

I know many who were active in the fan community still read MJJC. Now that the dust has settled, it would be interesting for those who were part of that time to share their thoughts, and to finally get things out in the open.

 

[etoile 37]

For me, it just made me appreciate Michael's voice even more. I had never listened to impersonators before, so when Breaking News came out, I didn't question it, it sounded close enough to Michael and I didn't know that there were people who could sound that similar to Michael. But when people mentioned Jason Malachi and I listened to him, it made me pay a lot more attention to all the little subtleties that make Michael's voice so unique, his beautiful vibrato in particular, which sounded nothing like Malachi's goat-like vibrato. When Keep Your Head Up was released, I immediately knew that it was not Michael's voice.

In a way, I am thankful, because it made me pay more attention to Michael's voice and appreciate its quality in a way I never had before. But I hate how those songs will forever be a stain on his discography, because even though they have been removed from the album, there are still a lot of people who bought the original album and were never informed that those songs are not sung by Michael. There are still a lot of youtube videos claiming that they're Michael Jackson songs... Unfortunately, I feel like we'll never be completely rid of them.

 

[AlwaysThere]

On a personal level, I stopped caring long ago.

When “Breaking News” premiered, there was a live reaction thread on the old Maximum Jackson forum that was well over a thousand pages long, with new posts basically every other second leading up to the midnight drop. It was so much fun. But when the song hit, the tonal shift was jarring. “Time for new MJ!” changed to “what the hell is this?” in a matter of seconds. There were some skeptics among us, but the overwhelming majority felt that the vocals weren’t MJ’s.

It took me a while to process everything. I knew something was off with the vocals, but my perspective was, “Why would the estate release a fake song? The brothers are just trying to bleed money and more controversy from the estate and have the rest of the family fooled.” But then “Monster” leaked… and it hit like a brick. And nothing that happened afterwards made things any better, whether it be the other songs leaking, the Oprah interview, or any of the statements from collaborators. It was just a mess, and those songs should never have made the album.

But now, in 2024? I just don’t care. The songs were removed from circulation, and Vera won her class action lawsuit. All that could be realistically achieved has been. I absolutely think Eddie, James, Jason, Teddy, and the Johns should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating this fraud, but the continued discourse on the songs is exhausting in my opinion. The podcast has some interesting insights, but I think it’s 10-12 years too late to capture anybody or move the needle in any significant way. I’m more than happy leaving this in the past and moving on.

 

[Moonstreet]

On a personal level, I stopped caring long ago.

When “Breaking News” premiered, there was a live reaction thread on the old Maximum Jackson forum that was well over a thousand pages long, with new posts basically every other second leading up to the midnight drop. It was so much fun. But when the song hit, the tonal shift was jarring. “Time for new MJ!” changed to “what the hell is this?” in a matter of seconds. There were some skeptics among us, but the overwhelming majority felt that the vocals weren’t MJ’s.

Thank you for this. Things like this need to be remembered. How fast the change in the tone was, how everyone was so hyped, how something was needed in the fan community and then for it all to crash and burn.

I was also on the old Max Jax. It was interesting to see how different fan sites handled things, and very hard to see each one taking a side. I think for me it was the taking of sides that hurt, to know that you were not welcome any more because you had a different opinion to the mods and admin.

 

[Moonstreet]

But I hate how those songs will forever be a stain on his discography, because even though they have been removed from the album, there are still a lot of people who bought the original album and were never informed that those songs are not sung by Michael. There are still a lot of youtube videos claiming that they're Michael Jackson songs... Unfortunately, I feel like we'll never be completely rid of them.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. This bothers me too. Those of us active in the community who know and have followed it all since 2010, are one thing, but its the casual fans and new fans who dont, thats the damage that cant be undone. We can move on and just ignore those songs, but those on YouTube and Social Media who just take things at face value and dont dig deeper into the background of songs and albums will just keep the fake songs in circulation.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I find it fascinating but I think the fact that it is hugely scandal worthy is basically a drop in the bucket. Like an interesting curiosity.

It's really the wrong time to get into it now tho, while we're still cleaning up the other mess.

 

[R1chard]

Basically, knowing that Sony will knowingly release fake songs makes me immediately lose all interest in any future "MJ songs". Their greed has shot themselves in the foot, to the point where I will never buy another official release.

the fan against fan fighting?

I think this is just manufactured for controversy. I've never let it bother me. There is certainly no deeper meaning.

 

[Moonstreet]

I think this is just manufactured for controversy. I've never let it bother me. There is certainly no deeper meaning.

wow, seriously??? Were you here on MJJC in 2010??? Were you on all the other fan forums, the forum on mj .com??? Talking out of your behind as usual,, please vacate, the adults are having a serious conversation about their experiences.

 

[R1chard]

wow, seriously??? Were you here on MJJC in 2010???

I wasn't on this particular board. I was on some of the others from about the time of Invincible. I'm not a juvenile now, and I wasn't a juvenile back then. I would certainly never hold a grudge against somebody just because they questioned the legitimacy of a song. That's just crazy.

And you're certainly obsessed with people's join dates, aren't you?

My advice, which you're free to accept or ignore, is to stop trying to stir up arguments in every reply.

 

[kai]

how do i feel? i still feel the same as before... the estate or sony didn't even had the balls to say "hey people who buy our stuff, we made a mistake, we were tricked and wanted to believe in the authenticity of the songs but we failed and didn't listen to you".

As long as the estate acts like "nah, we just didn't want confusion thats why we removed the tracks" the older fandom wont feel supported. They spit on us when releasing the track (and everyone was trying to warn them) and they spit on us when removing the tracks acting like "we removed it but you are still crazy".

That statement (chucks email) regarding the songs was a slap in the face.

 

[Moonstreet]

As long as the estate acts like "nah, we just didn't want confusion thats why we removed the tracks" the older fandom wont feel supported.

Thank you for sharing. yes this, when you experienced it in real time, it just hits very differently

 

[kai]

Thank you for sharing. yes this, when you experienced it in real time, it just hits very differently

i've been a fan since around mid 90s (since i barely could speak) and in the forums since early 2000s.
2010 album was really a horrible thing and since then i was hoping that they wont get away with it.

 

[Victorious]

Hot take maybe but since I am also an older fan (since just after Thriller):
The poor, un-Michaelish vocals on the 'Invincible' album and the auto-tune on songs like 'One More Change' did also help to set up the possibility that it could be Michael's voice

I myself hated the Cascio songs on and never really cared about em enough to care about the vocals tbh

 

[Moonstreet]

Hot take maybe but since I am also an older fan (since just after Thriller):
The poor, un-Michaelish vocals on the 'Invincible' album and the auto-tune on songs like 'One More Change' did also help to set up the possibility that it could be Michael's voice

I myself hated the Cascio songs on and never really cared about em enough to care about the vocals tbh

Interesting observation, that due to your dislike of Invincible, that you were more open at the time to a different sound and and assuming that it could be Michael.

 

[Victorious]

Interesting observation, that due to your dislike of Invincible, that you were more open at the time to a different sound and and assuming that it could be Michael.

Interesting summary, but that's not what I said

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Invincible still sounds like MJ 110 percent, even if some of his vocals were a bit rough. Don't really see the comparison between that and vocals that sound absolutely nothing like him.

 

[Victorious]

Invincible still sounds like MJ 110 percent, even if some of his vocals were a bit rough. Don't really see the comparison between that and vocals that sound absolutely nothing like him.

MJ or not, his voice was different on 'Invincible' in comparison to his older work, and songs like 'One More Chance' were processed; so my suggestion is that this made the claim that the Cascio tracks were in fact th real MJ but in a changed or processed way easier to believe for a lot of people (together with the conviction of Teddy Riley etc).

I believe if the Cascio crap had dropped in 1986 there wouldn't have be a discussion at all, let alone on a MJ forum; everybody would have known it wasn't him

 

[michaelsson]

It was insane around here. I dont like that they didnt acknowledge it at all. The battlefield that the fan community became was atrocious while the upper-heads sat back and collected millions off our backs. I was hurt and to experience that in real time was probably the craziest thing I have ever witnessed. The estate knew those songs were not Michael, Sony knew those songs were not Michael, We knew those songs were not Michael, The Frauds that is the ASScious knew that was not Michael. They simply did not care and the lies they told to save face…such a slap in the face. The boycotts…the fighting…it was all too much. We never recovered from it unfortunately. And the fact some “fans” couldn't tell made me look at them sideways…im not gonna lie. Even sitting here now thinking about it…that was so crazy.

 

[michaelsson]

MJ or not, his voice was different on 'Invincible' in comparison to his older work, and songs like 'One More Chance' were processed; so my suggestion is that this made the claim that the Cascio tracks were in fact th real MJ but in a changed or processed way easier to believe for a lot of people (together with the conviction of Teddy Riley etc).

I believe if the Cascio crap had dropped in 1986 there wouldn't have be a discussion at all, let alone on a MJ forum; everybody would have known it wasn't him

His voice was not different on Vince. He sounded like himself, he sang in a deeper register on some songs but he sounded the same. Processed vocals don't change your voice. Even when you play with pitch, Michael Jackson still sounds like Michael Jackson.

 

[AlwaysThere]

MJ or not, his voice was different on 'Invincible' in comparison to his older work, and songs like 'One More Chance' were processed; so my suggestion is that this made the claim that the Cascio tracks were in fact th real MJ but in a changed or processed way easier to believe for a lot of people (together with the conviction of Teddy Riley etc).

Well, of course his voice was different on Invincible—a 40-year-old won’t sound the same as he did when he was 20. Age (plus, in MJ’s case, drug use and consistently poor vocal technique) will degrade your sound overtime. Every artist goes through it to varying degrees. He still sounded unquestionably like Michael Jackson, just an older one.

I don’t think the second guessing on the Cascio tracks has anything to do with some Invincible songs having heavy processing. I think the prospect of fake songs being released was just too outlandish for some to believe.

 

[Moonstreet]

I don’t think the second guessing on the Cascio tracks has anything to do with some Invincible songs having heavy processing. I think the prospect of fake songs being released was just too outlandish for some to believe.

I agree, in 2010 the fan community was still processing Michaels death. It was a very emotional time, the promise of new album was a way for many to heal. So to even think that songs could be faked, and put on an official release, right when the fan community needed to heal was something so far out there, that many just didnt want to even entertain the thought.

 

[innuendo141]

Damien Shields name was censored on this site for quite some time. It appeared as D***** S******. That is still so weird to me.

Anyways, it never sounded like MJ, the songs were crap and everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves because there is no going back on what they did. What's done is done.

For those who genuinely believed it was MJ all along - what the hell were you hearing.

 

[Moonstreet]

Damien Shields name was censored on this site for quite some time. It appeared as D***** S******. That is still so weird to me.

Anyways, it never sounded like MJ, the songs were crap and everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves because there is no going back on what they did. What's done is done.

For those who genuinely believed it was MJ all along - what the hell were you hearing.

My theory for his name being censored was because he was part of the Max Jax team, a rival messageboard and he was outspoken from the start about the fake songs. For a long time, MJJC took a hard line against anyone who said the songs were fake.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I agree, in 2010 the fan community was still processing Michaels death. It was a very emotional time, the promise of new album was a way for many to heal. So to even think that songs could be faked, and put on an official release, right when the fan community needed to heal was something so far out there, that many just didnt want to even entertain the thought.

It's entirely incredulous to hear and yet it is just another day in the world of Michael Jackson.

Honestly, the fact that it doesn't tarnish his name in any real way means it's more of a fascinating curiosity than a genuine issue. It is an issue still, literally a crime that they committed in broad daylight and just went away with; but in comparison to the convention behind his death, or his morality, or even just his appearance. Idk. It doesn't register.

 

[dam2040]

The fan community never recovered from it.

I remember playing Breaking News and turned it off almost instantly. It was just so obviously fake.

Didn’t help that the Estate were buying off fan sites like MJ Star (are they even about anymore?) with Immortal preview tickets.

I knew from then on we were in for a rough ride with the Estate.

 

[Moonstreet]

The fan community never recovered from it.

I remember playing Breaking News and turned it off almost instantly. It was just so obviously fake.

Didn’t help that the Estate were buying off fan sites like MJ Star (are they even about anymore?) with Immortal preview tickets.

I knew from then on we were in for a rough ride with the Estate.

Twisted Vision from MJSTAR reinvented himself , and after death fans have no clue about his history and previous views about Michael when he was alive.

 

[dam2040]

Twisted Vision from MJSTAR reinvented himself , and after death fans have no clue about his history and previous views about Michael when he was alive.

Same can be said about Charles Thompson.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Branca has lost the respect of the fans forever in a way entirely divorced from what could've been. He was never guaranteed to keep or even have it in this line of business but he picked the easiest way to just lose it forever.

It's not like Tupac's estate offending some people or even the Hendrix estate. It's just a blatant sense of deriding your customers in the most egregious way possible that no one can deny.

This Is It or Xscape, people may not love but arguments about their merits at least means people engage.

Just giving us fake songs blatantly says you're an anti-art ghoul, the only thing we can debate on is if it's due to pure malice or just corporate ignorance.

 

[Ganesh]

The fake tracks on the album are now accepted as fact. In 2010, there was a significant number of members of this board who would simply not accept it. It was hotly contested.

It was an unbelievable situation. Not just because this scam had been allowed to happen, but that there were actually people who called themselves fans who did not have a shred of doubt that the tracks were 100% authentic.

I remember arguing with these people and wondering what was going on in their ears. Wondering what they actually heard when MJ music was playing. Of all the people in the world to be fooled by these nonsense tracks, it was fans?!

What Sony and the Estate have done is unforgivable. They drove a wedge straight through the middle of the fan community at the most painful time, and they have refused to acknowledge it or apologise for it at every opportunity. And now, because the fans have demanded justice, they will be punished yet again through a complete abandonment of new music.

They had the easiest job in the world. Release his unreleased music with minimal mixing. Do some promotion. Have some respect. Instead, it's like they set out to destroy his legacy in as many legal and illegal ways as possible.

It is just as well he is not alive to see this. So many of his associates have disgraced his memory for money. We should not let them forget.

Beware the idle jabbers.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

They had the easiest job in the world. Release his unreleased music with minimal mixing. Do some promotion. Have some respect. Instead, it's like they set out to destroy his legacy in as many legal and illegal ways as possible.

Nothing in the Casio aspect has damaged MJs legacy. Nobody puts any stock in the after death releases, unless it's in a positive way genuinely.

The allegations remain the only damaging part of Michael's legacy.