TGIM and Girlfriend are two of MJ’s most underrated vocal performances

[filmandmusic]

Michael shows of his playful vocals perfectly for these songs, you can practically “hear” him smiling during the singing. They sound cheeky and boastful, warm and cozy Just the way it should be for the theme he was going for.
The girl is mine is the most Motown sounding song he has written and the spoken parts offer the same vibrance and playfulness as his spoken parts in his Motown songs. It also feels like a continuation of “girlfriend” which is also brilliantly sung. Both songs have this very laid back feel good vibe, I can ‘t help but thinking Michael had girlfriend in his mind when he wrote TGIM.
Girlfriend on the other hand sounds very naughty without becoming perverse, it is sweet, lazy and dreamy as if his head is in the clouds full of love. The way he pronounces “girlfriend” it is full of longing, it is not just sung it is experienced, he becomes the character of the song.

Then TGIM might even have my favorite vocal part altogether. “ But we both can not have have her so it‘s one or the other and one day you’ll discover that she’s my girl forever and ever”. These are goosebumps on my arms. How he includes the zzz aaah sound to “ so it’z ah one or the other” it is brilliant. It doesn’t make sense unless you hear it
The “forever and eveeeerr” part wow, if you could see the hair on my arms…

Also big thumbs up for Paul because he is going along with it, he isn’t half arsed about it either but Michael would not have allowed that, that is certain. Ask Mick Jagger

They are simple silly songs and you might not like the themes of the songs or the lyrics but you have to admit that vocally they are spot on. The atmosphere he was going for was nailed!

You can go for the big in your face performances like beat it or the very emotional ones like gone too soon but he literally could emote anything with his voice. It is not about the notes you can hit, it is about the feeling you put into your music. Michael could sell it like no other.
Smokey Robinson said it himself, he is proud when people think Smokey covered who’s loving you and not vice versa.

 

[DuranDuran]

The girl is mine is the most Motown sounding song he has written and the spoken parts offer the same vibrance and playfulness as his spoken parts in his Motown songs.

Doesn't sound like Motown to me. That song and Baby Be Mine sounds like the typical Westcoast sound of that period, what was called light/soft rock then, and modern day comedians labeled it "yacht rock". It was called "Westcoast" because a lot of those songs had some of the same Los Angeles area session musicians and/or producers. Some of the guys Quincy Jones used were "Westcoast" like the horn section called Seawind, who had their own albums, just like Toto who were also session musicians. Ray Parker Jr., most known for Ghostbusters song, was a session musician in the 1970s before starting his own band Raydio. Ray played guitar and sometimes keyboards on many records by all kinds of acts. He played all of the instruments on Mr Telephone Man by New Edition, which he wrote & produced and Ray also played on some Carpenters records. Some other songs of that style are:

Al Jarreau - We're In This Love Together / Mornin'
George Benson - Turn Your Love Around / Give Me The Night
Toto - Georgy Porgy
Rupert Holmes - Escape
Robbie Dupree - Steal Away
Player - Baby Come Back
Steve Kipner - The Ending
Christopher Cross - Sailing
Manhattan Transfer - Spice Of Life
Steely Dan - Hey Nineteen

 

[filmandmusic]

@DuranDuran

I meant vocally in terms of happiness and brightness (not necessarily the sound) I have no other way to put it, it is a feeling for me. I don’t know anything about music I always let my feeling be the judge.

I will listen to the songs you listed because I love that sound and couldn’t pinpoint its whereabouts before! I see Steely dan and George Benson so sounds great already.
I love Christopher Cross’ sailing and spice of life.

 

[DuranDuran]

@DuranDuran

I meant vocally in terms of happiness and brightness (not necessarily the sound) I have no other way to put it, it is a feeling for me. I don’t know anything about music I always let my feeling be the judge.

Maybe that's the influence of Paul. Paul usually had the happy sounding songs in The Beatles, even if the lyrics were not (Rocky Raccoon, Maxwell's Silver Hammer, Eleanor Rigby). John Lennon once called them "Granny music" in an interview. Paul (Wings) released Mary Had A Little Lamb as a single.

 

[Agonum]

[…] The girl is mine is the most Motown sounding song he has written […]

Very interesting thought. Besides The Girl is Mine, I would also like to nominate Blues Away, You Were There, Keep the Faith, and (maybe) Little Susie.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Very interesting thought. Besides The Girl is Mine, I would also like to nominate Blues Away, You Were There, Keep the Faith, and (maybe) Little Susie.

Really? You think those songs have any kind of Motown sound? Not having a go, I'm just startled. I was already unconvinced by f&m's suggestion of TGIM and Say Say Say as sounding a bit (quite a lot?) Motown.

Now I'm really confused, lol.

What is it about Keep The Faith or, especially, Little Susie that makes you think of Tamla? My mind is in a spin!

 

[Agonum]

It comes down to what you regard as “The Motown Sound”. I’m not talking about the early (classic) Motown, but rather the diverse outing it would evolve towards. There’s a plethora of different sounds coming from Motown and its subsidiaries from the 70’s and onwards. Just think about Stevie Wonder’s releases!

The suggestion I made is based mostly on how I can easily hear them sung with one of his “Motown voices”. Keep the Faith, for instance, would steer somewhat close to Michael’s interpretation of Wither’s Ain’t No Sunshine (which, by the way, again serves to emphasize the width of what constitutes the sound of Motown).

You Were There (co-written with Buz Kohan) – it would fit in perfectly on Got To Be There (1972), don’t you think?

 

[Agonum]

I probably will backtrack in regards to Little Susie… well, to be fair, I said “maybe”! I guess I could see it on Forever, Michael or one of the later Jackson 5 albums.

And just to make it clear: I am talking about compositions here, not sound (as in instrumentation, arrangement, mixing, production).

Having thought about it for a bit, I’m now unconvinced about The Girl is Mine sounding Motown. Although I get where f&m is coming from.

 

[zinniabooklover]

It comes down to what you regard as “The Motown Sound”. I’m not talking about the early (classic) Motown, but rather the diverse outing it would evolve towards. There’s a plethora of different sounds coming from Motown and its subsidiaries from the 70’s and onwards. Just think about Stevie Wonder’s releases!

Hm, interesting point. I don't know if f&m was meaning the classic Tamla sound. Maybe he didn't. Certainly I don't hear that in any of Michael's adult work.

As for the later diversity, well, with Stevie I don't even consider his 70's stuff as even being Motown. He's just being Stevie and is so far removed from Motown at that point that I always used to forget that he was still signed to them. Bc he left in order to get more control and autonomy, they caved in and he went back. But I always forget that.

The Temps and The Supremes and, of course, J5 were still having hits in the 70's even though Tamla's heyday was long gone. And they do all sound very Motown, imo, even stuff like Papa Was A Rolling Stone. Tamla was never as monolithic as some people believed it to be. But Stevie by the 70's. Also, Marvin with What's Goin' On - those are miles away from the Motown sound, to me.

I need to think about this.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I probably will backtrack in regards to Little Susie… well, to be fair, I said “maybe”! I guess I could see it on Forever, Michael or one of the later Jackson 5 albums.

And just to make it clear: I am talking about compositions here, not sound (as in instrumentation, arrangement, mixing, production).

Having thought about it for a bit, I’m now unconvinced about The Girl is Mine sounding Motown. Although I get where f&m is coming from.

I'm thinking about all of this. I may be some time ...

 

[mj_frenzy]

The original version of the 'Girlfriend' song (from the 'London Town' album by Wings) has a more Motown feel to it, mainly because of the vocals which are sung in a falsetto way.

About 'The Girl Is Mine', it is a simple and silly song because Michael Jackson intentionally wanted it to be that way.

On that song, Michael Jackson was not going for depth, on the contrary he was going for rhythm and feel, as revealed by Paul McCartney.

Besides, it has been said that 'The Girl Is Mine' was inspired by cartoons (i.e., Michael Jackson wrote that song while watching cartoons), so it was meant to become a very silly, childish, and shallow song.

 

[filmandmusic]

Everybody seems to struggle with that one sentence about Motown I’ve written while I didn’t even give it much thought. Young Michael could have sung these songs Is the main idea behind it because of their playful silly nature. The main idea of this thread was to praise the vocals of both songs. Now naturally since most fans hate those tracks I’m not surprised nobody seems to agree with me. My taste in MJ music is very different than the average fan I guess.

PS I did not even mention say say say! Lol

 

[Prince Of Pop]

Sorry but I disagree....especially Girlfriend. This song is one of Michael's worst tracks ever recorded. It's a typical sappy song written by Paul post Beatles era. There were better tracks that should have been on Off The Wall instead of that song.

Girl Is Mine is the weakest on Thriller IMO. I prefer Say Say Say over it. 2bad it wasn't on Thriller instead. I think it would have been a bigger hit had they been swapped.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Everybody seems to struggle with that one sentence about Motown I’ve written while I didn’t even give it much thought. Young Michael could have sung these songs Is the main idea behind it because of their playful silly nature

See, this is making lots more sense to me. To be fair to those of us who are struggling with the Motown point (er, that'd be me, lol) you said this:

The girl is mine is the most Motown sounding song he has written and the spoken parts offer the same vibrance and playfulness as his spoken parts in his Motown songs.

vs. this which makes much more sense to me:

Young Michael could have sung these songs [...]

I think you undermined your own point by bringing in a red herring - pause, while we all await the inevitable f&m joke ...

It's dead interesting though bc it's got me thinking about Motown, what IS the Motown 'sound', who has it, who doesn't ...

The main idea of this thread was to praise the vocals of both songs. Now naturally since most fans hate those tracks I’m not surprised nobody seems to agree with me.

I do struggle to separate the vocal performance from the actual song. I love the acappella TGIM from Mexico depo but the official version, no! Tbf, I don't particularly like Paul McCartney's voice so that doesn't help but I also don't like the 'feel' of the song. It is very 'Michael' though. I can imagine him having loads of fun recording it.

My taste in MJ music is very different than the average fan I guess.

You don't say!

I'm teasing, f&m! I'm in a similar situation, kinda. Every time someone complains about too many ballads on Invincible, I'm all

PS I did not even mention say say say! Lol

This is very true. I'm pleading the 5th. Which makes no sense at all but I don't care. It sounds suitably melodramatic!

 

[Dorian]

I’m sorry my friend, but lyrics are very corny on both. Some Beatles type of BS. Easy pass. For both.

 

[filmandmusic]

I’m sorry my friend, but lyrics are very corny on both. Some Beatles type of BS. Easy pass. For both.

VOCALS Dorian VOCALS FFS My only mention of the lyrics was that they are indeed silly.

@zinniabooklover
Alright I acknowledge it sounds confusing but I like to keep you all on edge. You've proven you have read my post unlike DORIAN

Anyway I talk about the vocals, I even stated it in the title. Vocally it reminds me of Motown Michael. That same playfulness can be found in "sit down girl, no get up girl, show me what you can do!" on ABC or the intro to "who's loving you" you live. The silly convo with Paul it is not different at all.

 

[filmandmusic]

Sorry but I disagree....especially Girlfriend. This song is one of Michael's worst tracks ever recorded. It's a typical sappy song written by Paul post Beatles era. There were better tracks that should have been on Off The Wall instead of that song.

Girl Is Mine is the weakest on Thriller IMO. I prefer Say Say Say over it. 2bad it wasn't on Thriller instead. I think it would have been a bigger hit had they been swapped.

It was already a bigger hit than TGIM even without being on Thriller! 6 weeks nr 1 in the USA!

 

[DuranDuran]

The silly convo with Paul it is not different at all.

I don't know if it was silly. It was unusual at the time for a black guy & a white guy to be fighting over the same woman in a mainstream song. That probably wouldn't have been a hit in the 1960s or the decades before that (in the USA). In the Jim Crow era, it was illegal in many states to have mixed race marriages or relationships. In a way it is sort of a sequel to Ebony And Ivory with Stevie Wonder.

 

[zinniabooklover]

@zinniabooklover
Alright I acknowledge it sounds confusing but I like to keep you all on edge.

Indeedy!

Anyway I talk about the vocals, I even stated it in the title. Vocally it reminds me of Motown Michael.

I'm going to stick to 'Young Michael' and then I can agree with you.

That same playfulness can be found in "sit down girl, no get up girl, show me what you can do!" on ABC or the intro to "who's loving you" you live.

And Michael liked 'playfulness', didn't he? I think he liked that sort of spirit or feel, iyswim.

I don't know if it was silly.

I think f&m just meant playful and lighthearted.

 

[filmandmusic]

@DuranDuran
I’m wondering, are you the personification of wikipedia?

 

[filmandmusic]

The girl is mine is a sequel to girlfriend! In girlfriend Michael is telling the girl that he will show the letters he has been saving.
In the girl is mine the boyfriend is fighting with Michael about her. Paul just hasn’t quite figured out yet he has lost the battle…

 

[DuranDuran]

I think f&m just meant playful and lighthearted.

Well, sometimes you have to get your message across with sugar & cream. I don't think if Mike & Paul did a song in a militant kind of way like the hip hop group Public Enemy, that it would have gotten the same amount of airplay. We Are The World & Do They Know It's Christmas got a lot of airplay, Sun City by Artists United Against Apartheid didn't.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Well, sometimes you have to get your message across with sugar & cream. I don't think if Mike & Paul did a song in a militant kind of way like the hip hop group Public Enemy, that it would have gotten the same amount of airplay. We Are The World & Do They Know It's Christmas got a lot of airplay, Sun City by Artists United Against Apartheid didn't.

I don't think Paul does militant, does he? No offence but I just don't think it's in him. Silly love songs, that's more like it.

 

[DuranDuran]

I don't think Paul does militant, does he? No offence but I just don't think it's in him. Silly love songs, that's more like it.

Are Mull Of Kintyre or Give Ireland Back To The Irish considered militant? A certain guy from the late 1960s claimed Helter Skelter (and some other Beatles songs like Piggies) is about a race war, and his followers killed some people over it, including actress Sharon Tate. Anyway it was solo John Lennon who was known for militant songs. That's probably why he was not as commercially successful as Paul, it also didn't help that the general public did not dig Yoko's singing. Or they claimed she broke up The Beatles.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Are Mull Of Kintyre or Give Ireland Back To The Irish considered militant?

Fair point although I don't really wanna get into it re Paul's lyrics. Mainly bc he doesn't really interest me. He did take a load of flak for Give Ireland Back to the Irish, I remember that. It got banned from radio.

No idea re Mull of Kintyre. Don't remember it being described as militant. The lyrics don't suggest that. I love the song bc of the bagpipes. Great performance.

I'd say Billy Paul's cover version of Let 'Em In is pretty militant. Much better than Paul's own version.

A certain guy from the late 1960s claimed Helter Skelter is about a race war,

yeah, I know which idiot you're referring to.

Anyway it was solo John Lennon who was known for militant songs.

yeah, bc he always was an arsey so-and-so.

That's probably why he was not as commercially successful as Paul

Possibly but let's not forget Paul's immense talent when it comes to writing melodies. I'm not that bothered about the Beatles but Paul McCartney is / was a consummate songwriter. Not that John wasn't good, he was great, and I'm not fussed on Paul's songs myself but he is really good at what he does.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Mull Of Kintyre

This is a really nice piece about the song. This certainly resonates with what I remember reading about it at the time but also my own reaction to the lyrics and, especially, those pipers. Local guys, as it turns out. I'd forgotten that.

The story behind of Paul McCartney song 'Mull of Kintyre'

The highest selling song of the decade

faroutmagazine.co.uk

 

[filmandmusic]

I was not aware I made a beatles topic

In that case the best Beatles album is “revolver” mainly because of Paul’s fantastic ballads!

 

[zinniabooklover]

I was not aware I made a beatles topic

Yeah, got a bit crazy! I did take Mull of Kintyre over to the Paul McCartney thread, though.

 

[Agonum]

The best Beatles release, in my humble opinion, is not an album, but a single. Penny Lane. Double A‑sider, in terrific company with Strawberry Fields Forever. Although if we would allow ourselves to extend it to become a question of best Beatles song, Penny Lane might very well be tied with Eleanor Rigby. And speaking of Eleanor Rigby, I can’t decide which version is the best; it ain’t Beatles’, but either Aretha’s or Ray’s. Again – in my humble opinion!

What was the question again? @filmandmusic

 

[zinniabooklover]

The best Beatles release, in my humble opinion, is not an album, but a single. Penny Lane.

I'VE JUST BEEN LISTENING TO THAT.

Sorry for shouting! I love that song. LOVE it!

Sorry, f&m! Not my fault. DD started it and now Agonum is keeping it going, lol.