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The Cascio Tracks Have Been REMOVED!!!

StellaJackson said:
You seem to have a problem with Damien that borders on obsessive. Whether he does a book, an essay or a podcast - what difference does it make to you? He isn’t making any money from it.

He’s dedicated years of his time and resources to telling the story in the format that works best. That way people can hear everything that everyone has to say directly. It would be impossible to cover it all in an essay. In what way has he conducted himself that gives you such a problem?
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Piek said:
'Milk it'? Who is milking three fake songs on a Michael Jackson album? You are pointing to the one guy who did everything he could to expose the people who DID milk the fake songs?!

Unbelievable.
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I've placed my full response below, so the wall of text doesn't take up everyone's screens!
Other than his inability to take an ounce of criticism (demonstrated when he and Jamon from the MJ Cast went on a mini Twitter rampage after myself and another member suggested they come off as conceited), Damien's obsession with the Cascio tracks feels more like the actions of a man capitalizing on a sore spot within the fan community as opposed to a legitimate effort to defend Michael's legacy.

When Leaving Neverland first came to our attention, what was Damien's response? Some tweets, a half-assed article (which is no longer available, for some reason) that recycles the same old talking points, and an appearance or two on the MJ Cast. When the Broadway show debuted and garnered the most positive public feedback we've seen towards Michael in years, how did Damien champion it? A handful of Twitter replies criticizing the choreography and dismissing the cast recording as uninteresting. With the indescribable reservoir of knowledge he's attained over the years, how has Damien, the oft-described head of MJ academia, used it to educate the community? Since 2016, he's reissued Xscape Origins in a lesser quality, made a few miscellaneous comments about as-yet-unreleased songs, released a Thriller documentary that's of little use to longtime fans, and... that's it. His last free-to-read "exclusive" was eight years ago.

The Cascio tracks, on the other hand? Countless articles that cover nearly the entire front page of his website. Multiple tweets on a weekly basis, oftentimes in response to conversations that have nothing to do with them. Multiple appearances in MJ Cast discussions. The apparent cancelation of a book that was meant to cover Michael's final years in the studio in favor of a podcast series (?) dedicated exclusively to discussing the controversial production of the Michael album (which I'm willing to bet will suddenly be ready to go after years and years of delays, since the public conversation has been revived).

I'm not questioning Damien's fandom -- I understand why the Cascio tracks were/are an imperative subject of discussion and, believe it or not, am grateful for the wealth of information he's shared in regards to the vault (even if I don't care for his actual writing). But ever since his demeanor shifted from "let's educate and explore" to "let's poke the raw nerve of the fan community whenever and wherever possible," I've grown tired of the transcendent level most fans hold him to, an annoyance which flared once the Cascio tracks disappeared. Does this matter? Ultimately, no. Were my earlier comments appropriate? Also, no. But this is a public discussion forum, and I'm voicing my opinion on someone who many people seem to consider infallible. And the fact that a select few users have taken these vanilla criticisms so personally, on top of my previous scuffle with him, says (to me) that the egos are beginning to inflate.
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With all said and done, I apologize to everyone in this thread for my immaturity. I'm not happy with the way I led this conversation, and I'm sorry for any annoyance it caused. This is about the Cascio tracks, not Damien.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I've placed my full response below, so the wall of text doesn't take up everyone's screens!

With all said and done, I apologize to everyone in this thread for my immaturity. I'm not happy with the way I led this conversation, and I'm sorry for any annoyance it caused. This is about the Cascio tracks, not Damien.
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I can assure you it’s a legitimate effort to defend Michael’s legacy. The effort, time and resources that he’s put into it is staggering.

Leaving Neverpand is of course more serious than the Cascio tracks but it’s been covered to death. Fans have done amazing work on exposing that and have done great documentaries like Square One. Why can’t one fan focus his efforts on the Cascio tracks? With regard to the musical - does he work for the estate? It’s not his job to champion anything if he doesn’t want to.

The book was about the Cascio tracks - not Michael’s final years in the studio. The podcast is a better format as you can hear what people have to say. Again it’s his project and you can disagree with how he does it but ihe’s the one whose put all the work in so let him release it how he wants. Plus all of his articles are free on his site. Faking Michael is also free. I appreciate your response though. Will be interesting to your feedback on the podcast.
 
All the arguing aside, is the podcast still gonna talk about MJ's final work? I don't know why researchers don't get into it much, it's the most interesting and mysterious song era of his life Imo. And when is it coming out?
 
regarding the falsetto bridge on "black widow".. are you really thinking anyone was supposed to believe that this part was sung by MJ or Malachi? It's just like the female voice in "Xscape" (i've got to getaway).. I never thought of this being MJ or Malachi.. Its more of a opera-sample kinda..
 
kai said:
are you really thinking anyone was supposed to believe that this part was sung by MJ or Malachi?
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Idk lol.
Prince(along with Michael) is one of my faves,and he has a song called "Solo". During the second line of the song,he hits a very high kind of soprano sounding note,and his voice goes so high that it starts to sound a bit like a female's voice.
I just thought that was the case for "Black Widow" too (Jason Malachi hitting a note that makes him sound like a female).
Tho I think that I was most likely wrong lol
 
PurpleThriller said:
Idk lol.
Prince(along with Michael) is one of my faves,and he has a song called "Solo". During the second line of the song,he hits a very high kind of soprano sounding note,and his voice goes so high that it starts to sound a bit like a female's voice.
I just thought that was the case for "Black Widow" too (Jason Malachi hitting a note that makes him sound like a female).
Tho I think that I was most likely wrong lol
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Slightly off topic but since you're a prince fan, I'm curious if you think Bad would have worked as a duet? I think that was MJs original idea but Prince wasn't interested..
 
Robbsaber01 said:
Slightly off topic but since you're a prince fan, I'm curious if you think Bad would have worked as a duet? I think that was MJs original idea but Prince wasn't interested..
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I'm happy that never happened,to be honest.
Bad is one of the most "Michael Jackson"-ish stuff Mike ever did,in my opinion(not as a bad thing,the coregraphy,music video and song are great with a strong Michael essence). But that wouldn't have fit Prince at all. Especially since the song was written by Michael.
Tho if they would have sat down and wrote a song togheter(Prince doing the production for the music & instruments playing + Michael doing the harmonies/overall melody & the lycris) that would have been amazing I think.
 
PurpleThriller said:
I'm happy that never happened,to be honest.
Bad is one of the most "Michael Jackson"-ish stuff Mike ever did,in my opinion(not as a bad thing,the coregraphy,music video and song are great with a strong Michael essence). But that wouldn't have fit Prince at all. Especially since the song was written by Michael.
Tho if they would have sat down and wrote a song togheter(Prince doing the production for the music & instruments playing + Michael doing the harmonies/overall melody & the lycris) that would have been amazing I think.
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Yeah I agree if they were to work together an a different song it would of been interesting.
 
OnirMJ said:
The leaked 12 tracks "Bible" album with original versions of Cascio tracks is the album Cascios sold to Estate for millions of dollars (mixes + multitracks). Those songs are not demos in any way - they have full lead vocals, bg vocals and ad-libs. Jason recorded multiple takes of his vocals and then they selected the ones they thought sound the closest to Jackson (in their opinion). Cascios then hired Jackson's past engineer from Invincible album to copy-paste additional Jackson's ad-libs, breaths and screams from his previous recordings. They considered those songs as finished "Michael Jackson" songs ready to be released. They were unhappy when Estate hired additional producers such as Teddy Riley and Tricky Stewart to remix their work. Original writers demos sung by James Porte (impersonating Jackson) are also known to exist somewhere.
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It still means a large number of people -- Eddie Cascio and his entire family, including his parents, since they all lived in the same house and would have known if MJ was NOT spending hours in the basement studio recording songs;James Porte and I would assume his girlfriend and maybe parents; Stuart Bradley and his significant other; Jason Malachi and his significant other -- all of those people who didn't know each other previously and had competing career paths and professional reputations to protect, all of those people had to knowlingly take part in a major-scale, highly-visible-if-found-out fraud that wouldn't last 2 seconds if any single out of them spilled the beans, and this, in a social-media-saturated world where everything everybody does ends up on social media at some point.

If the whole thing is a fraud and a hoax, it's jaw-dropping that it worked. There are no other example of anything on this scale, on such a high-profile release, except the case of Milli Vanilli.
 
PurpleThriller said:
I'm happy that never happened,to be honest.
Bad is one of the most "Michael Jackson"-ish stuff Mike ever did,in my opinion(not as a bad thing,the coregraphy,music video and song are great with a strong Michael essence). But that wouldn't have fit Prince at all. Especially since the song was written by Michael.
Tho if they would have sat down and wrote a song togheter(Prince doing the production for the music & instruments playing + Michael doing the harmonies/overall melody & the lycris) that would have been amazing I think.
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Imagine them both being on this banger

 
kreen said:
It still means a large number of people -- Eddie Cascio and his entire family, including his parents, since they all lived in the same house and would have known if MJ was NOT spending hours in the basement studio recording songs;James Porte and I would assume his girlfriend and maybe parents; Stuart Bradley and his significant other; Jason Malachi and his significant other -- all of those people who didn't know each other previously and had competing career paths and professional reputations to protect, all of those people had to knowlingly take part in a major-scale, highly-visible-if-found-out fraud that wouldn't last 2 seconds if any single out of them spilled the beans, and this, in a social-media-saturated world where everything everybody does ends up on social media at some point.

If the whole thing is a fraud and a hoax, it's jaw-dropping that it worked. There are no other example of anything on this scale, on such a high-profile release, except the case of Milli Vanilli.
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What made you change your mind about the vocals not being MJ? You were one of the most vocal ones saying it is Michael back in the day (along with Korgnex). However you seem to have changed your stance

Not sure if everyone saw this:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1545786719558983681
 
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Pentum said:
What made you change your mind about the vocals not being MJ? You were one of the most vocal ones saying it is Michael back in the day (along with Korgnex). However you seem to have changed your stance
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Hiker said:
Those are actual lyrics! 'brothers toothpaste' 😲??!?


They might eat it up 😂, you never know!
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That toothpaste is a misheard lyric from when it leaked back then.

It’s actually “coming at you rather too fast”

Zig zag one is real tho
 
Pentum said:
What made you change your mind about the vocals not being MJ?
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I have changed my mind for three reasons:

1- The Estate chose not to use any Cascio tracks on Xscape. My contention was always that the Estate believed the songs were authentic, even after the release of Michael, since they reused Monster on the Immortal soundtrack. But when it became clear they would basically sit on 9 songs they paid millions for, it meant that they no longer thought the songs were authentic. If even they have lost faith, when they have the means and the motivation to defend them, it changes everything.

2- I spent more time analyzing the 9 unreleased Cascio tracks. My defence of them was based mostly on the 3 released songs. But when you listen to all 12, you do realize that it's always the same "MJ voice" being used, which is suspicious, as MJ used several distinct styles on his records: the sweet voice, the raspy, angry voice, the Disney, childlike voice, the falsetto, the low grunts, etc. So the image that comes out of all 12 songs is not the same as when you listen only to the 3 on the CD: you get the impression of an impersonator who is only good at impersonating MJ as long as he sticks to a certain, limited style.

3- I put a lot of faith in the Copyright Office recordings that were deposited two days after MJ's death, as it was basically too soon before fraudulent tracks could be recorded, and before a complicated scheme involving an impersonator could be hatched. But people went to Washington, DC, and actually listened to the material that was deposited, and it turns out it's just the demos with James Porte. No MJ can be heard on the tracks. Which does leave the mystery as to why Eddie would think of listing MJ as a singer: surely he didn't come up with whatever he did do in the 48 whirwind hours that followed MJ's death.
 
kreen said:
I have changed my mind for three reasons:

1- The Estate chose not to use any Cascio tracks on Xscape. My contention was always that the Estate believed the songs were authentic, even after the release of Michael, since they reused Monster on the Immortal soundtrack. But when it became clear they would basically sit on 9 songs they paid millions for, it meant that they no longer thought the songs were authentic. If even they have lost faith, when they have the means and the motivation to defend them, it changes everything.

2- I spent more time analyzing the 9 unreleased Cascio tracks. My defence of them was based mostly on the 3 released songs. But when you listen to all 12, you do realize that it's always the same "MJ voice" being used, which is suspicious, as MJ used several distinct styles on his records: the sweet voice, the raspy, angry voice, the Disney, childlike voice, the falsetto, the low grunts, etc. So the image that comes out of all 12 songs is not the same as when you listen only to the 3 on the CD: you get the impression of an impersonator who is only good at impersonating MJ as long as he sticks to a certain, limited style.

3- I put a lot of faith in the Copyright Office recordings that were deposited two days after MJ's death, as it was basically too soon before fraudulent tracks could be recorded, and before a complicated scheme involving an impersonator could be hatched. But people went to Washington, DC, and actually listened to the material that was deposited, and it turns out it's just the demos with James Porte. No MJ can be heard on the tracks. Which does leave the mystery as to why Eddie would think of listing MJ as a singer: surely he didn't come up with whatever he did do in the 48 whirwind hours that followed MJ's death.
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I had a similar evolution. It seemed too crazy a conspiracy at first, but something did feel off about those 3. Once I heard all 12 back to back I came around.

It's nothing to be ashamed of though. We were all tricked to some degree. I remember sitting in the dark listening to Carry On's "one more time, close your eyes, I'm always here to stay" line and so wanting it to be real to have one last moment with my idol. It was a real rollercoaster.

Don't feel bad. We're here now and time makes things clearer. We got through.

Just be glad you didn't spend 5Mil on these tracks :)
 
kreen said:
3- I put a lot of faith in the Copyright Office recordings that were deposited two days after MJ's death, as it was basically too soon before fraudulent tracks could be recorded, and before a complicated scheme involving an impersonator could be hatched. But people went to Washington, DC, and actually listened to the material that was deposited, and it turns out it's just the demos with James Porte. No MJ can be heard on the tracks. Which does leave the mystery as to why Eddie would think of listing MJ as a singer: surely he didn't come up with whatever he did do in the 48 whirwind hours that followed MJ's death.
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never heard that before...so you're saying eddie copyrighted those tracks two days after Michaels death or was the estate already involved at that point with the tracks?

i always assumed that jason was recording those tracks before the same time Michael died so they were mostly finished anyways and that it was meant either for jason or as a mock demo to present to Michael and when he died they came up with the con
 
rolerprod said:
never heard that before...so you're saying eddie copyrighted those tracks two days after Michaels death or was the estate already involved at that point with the tracks?

i always assumed that jason was recording those tracks before the same time Michael died so they were mostly finished anyways and that it was meant either for jason or as a mock demo to present to Michael and when he died they came up with the con
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James Porte is singing on the tracks that Eddie copyrighted, which were only a few tracks. Most of the songs were written and recorded after MJ died IIRC.

Estate wasn't involved until Eddie approached them with the tracks.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
James Porte is singing on the tracks that Eddie copyrighted, which were only a few tracks. Most of the songs were written and recorded after MJ died IIRC.
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how do we know they were recorded after michael died? if its confirmed then its obviously not michael cause...he dead
 
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