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The Discussion of Collectors & Leaks

Korgnex said:
When I put something on my channel and people start all this nonsense talk...
... about file traders and - somehow - my name is being thrown in.

As a reminder: I did not make anyone believe there would be leaks. So no idea why my name is randomly thrown in here.

The last time I posted in this thread was when I warned that a forgery was sold. A file leaking doesn't make the item authentic. It's also none of my business whatever file trading is happening.

I do care about fans not being duped into buying fake items though. In the past I have always warned about fake items and have been vocal about scammers. No ones likes being scammed. Not everyone here might be in a position to consider buying but there are enough people reading here who do either collect themselves or have friends who do. This is basically the last forum where people still read. And I don't see any harm in warning fellow fans about people who are not honest but deceiving.

Nowadays this thread is heavily derailed with all kinds of gossip about a weird community who spreads false info here and there.
I don't comment on any file traders' teasing with what they - as is usually the case - have obtained by a known person.

I will just say the most obvious: File traders are usually scammers. Keep that in mind. That's it, folks! ;)
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Brother this has absolutely NOTHING to do with whatever you're talking about here with scam files/fake songs or whatever. We're talking about clowning on you for dickteasing songs to a long dry community. The reason your "name is randomly thrown in here" is because you are the biggest proponent of this. It's cringe.
 
Korgnex said:
To be honest: You are one of those folks who are either obsessed with my nickname or you simply assume - as in your mockery - everything would somehow have to do with me. It's a rather sad thing to observe because that's a very narrow-minded mindset.
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You say I assume everything’s about you, yet here you are assuming things about me in the same breath. That’s not insight, that’s projection. You act like you’re above it all, but somehow you always pop up posting something whenever a leak drops.


Like "Hey guys! I'm still here, remember me??.."
 
MJFFR said:
Wow 😯I was reading the post and I have seen that you have share my videos I'm shocked (really lol), THANK YOU SO MUCH but where you have find my real name 🤣 I'm probably not the best at all for remastering etc but It's an honor to have my video post here, So THANK YOU ♥
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@MJFFR 🫶 👏👌🤏🫶OMG I had no idea or even a clue that you were actually HERE with US in MJJC!! It is an honor that you are HERE!!!
I loved your creatives, and I truly appreciate how long it takes and what hard work it requires to make these remastered videos look so seemlessly PERFECT for Michael's Legacy! Just like Michael you are a perfectionist of your craft!!!!

Your are a true MJ Hero for the deep love and great respect you have for him in everything you DO to keep his LEGACY ALIVE!!
BRAVO and please never stop doing what you do! I loved every crafted piece of MJ ARTWORK YOU MADE!!

🫶You did not come here to MMJC an BRAG about what YOU have already DONE brilliantly for Michael!
👉You did not draw attention to yourself here, you did not ask anyone on this site for any notice or FAME!⭐
All you asked was that you not be identified, for your own MODESTY! 🏆

Your the kind of warrior and fan that Michael Jackson truly deserves and your a gift to FRANCE and to MJJC as well!!
558667629_3354915804664583_2248376449170801684_n.jpg


I will never forget you and I want to THANK YOU directly for your MJ DEDICATION and MJ INSPIRATIONS!!

michael-jackson-i-love-you-more.gif


559680768_3354900774666086_2951965855568459778_n.jpg
 
ToMi said:
Okay this is going to be a longer post.

First of all, I've got to admit I initially believed the copy of "Bubbles" uploaded by Motif was authentic, simply because I wasn't quite familiar with his "memey" content on YouTube.

As a fan of Michael and his music I keep finding the whole collector community here pretty weird. I have already explained my stance on 1-second/manipulated/AI "enhanced" leaks here earlier, but I keep finding about more and more animosity between individual collectors here which I had never witnessed before.

In the past couple of years I've been able to get in contact with a few collectors of one of my other favourite singers (I won't reveal who). The singer's got lots of unreleased material circulating online leaked by fans (albeit in slightly edited (fan edits) or low-quality copies), which is slowly being taken down by the singer's estate and SME. The whole collectors community is very friendly, but is a bit secretive and prefers to not talk about unreleased material often. The reason is that the majority of the circulated material originates from studio discs/DATs sold by one of the singer's past close friends amid a financial crisis. The material was then distributed by some collectors on CDs sold to select fans, who have likely promised to not share any copies of the material publicly. Some of them violated that promise and kept circulating copies online, which have eventually made their way onto forums and YouTube. Among the material are songs worked on by the singer as part of an unreleased collaboration project; those songs are being taken down by the friend himself, who essentially served as the executive producer for the project.

Within the whole community, there's only one collector who keeps "bragging" about material he owns but never reveals any details about it. He has uploaded short snippets of some of the songs he owns in the past, but he's also known for submitting fake/non-existent items on Discogs and making up 'facts'. To cut a story short, he's a gatekeeping attention-seeker. I've been enjoying chats with the other collectors, who are very friendly and open to sharing new information, albeit with carefulness. I strongly believe those collectors shouldn't be classified as "gatekeepers"; they are simply cautious because lots of people who have repeatedly promised to keep the material for themselves kept circulating copies online, and although I'd surely wish to hear all those tracks, I think their choice should be respected.

Now, I don't want to attack anyone personally, simply because I'm not in any way angaged with, don't fully know nor understand the 'behind-the-scenes' stuff and relations between all the collectors here, but as a fan who seeks more knowledge about Michael's unreleased songs I keep finding there are lots of gatekeepers and attention-seekers within the MJ collector community who literally can't stand each other, be it because of their behavior or because of ego issues. I'm not disputing anyone's credibility here; I don't even want to and I'm grateful for all the info they are able and willing to give us, but deconstructing individual songs, isolating and removing their parts, "reduxing"/"remastering" the songs, stuffing them on top of each other, compressing them down to hell and then leaking a 1-second copy with absolutely no context given should be criminal. It's an injustice to any artist and the fan community as a whole. I'm not suprised that lots of newcomers or even long-time fans here have doubts about the authenticity of everything that leaks, because man, the way the songs are altered nowadays is absolutely insane.

EDIT: That doesn't mean I want Motif to stop uploading any of his content. I know he's also manipulating songs to a big degree, but he explicitly shows his memey way of "leaking" stuff, and I have to admit I find it funny. Keep on posting.
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In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
 
GYWOOM said:
In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
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Sorry Beano I posted in the wrong forum 😔
 
GYWOOM said:
In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
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Legit I just feel like collectors should just leak the high quality versions of a song if the full thing is already out there but the sound is compressed, like GYWOOM and Streetwalker ‘87
 
I’m a bit out of the loop; has Motif been running snippets he has of unreleased songs through Suno and uploading the outcomes on YouTube?
 
I think people need to realise unless the person directly worked with MJ, you are dealing with someone that wants nothing but to profit with MJ’s material, whether that’s with attention, money or more tracks.
 
GYWOOM said:
In the case of MJ, it’s not just a matter of someone who worked with him selling a few DATs because they needed money. Allegedly, there’s a deeper and messier side to it. A lot of these so-called “collectors” don’t just do it for the music, their ego plays a huge part.

Some of them manipulate people who actually worked with Michael, gaining their trust to get information or material they can later gatekeep. In situations like the Brad Buxer, MP, or Paul Anka stuff, it’s been alleged that a lot of it came from hackers who got into personal accounts and stole files to sell. Even if people don’t have stuff or would never sell, they’re constantly going after and manipulating anyone who worked with Michael to squeeze any information out from them, while simultaneously paying hackers for the work these people themselves don’t even have.

Once people get their hands on that kind of material, it becomes an endless cycle. They always want more, they start editing the files, adding invisible watermarks, and selling lower-quality versions just so they can keep the “master” and trace future leaks. I’m not sure exactly but various multitracks and song leaks have these watermarks on them. We don’t even have the original untouched stuff for a lot of things. What’s funny is they’ll buy something, call it garbage, then still hoard it and flip it to fund the next “garbage” song that only they’ll have.

Meanwhile, they’re all keeping tabs on and watching everyone. Alt accounts, word-of-mouth gossip, and even going after deals just to stop others from getting stuff and sharing it, all to feel important and in control.

Bottom line: if you end up with something you shouldn’t have, it’s only a matter of time before it leaks.
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May I drop in the reason why collectors have become like this?

It's because doors keep closing because of the underhanded actions of leakers. Secretly recording collectors whose trust they've earned, buying stuff off them and mass-selling them for insanely cheap prices where they'll eventually leak, sending followers after collectors to get stuff for them, etc. It's what I've seen in communities like this and a certain other community I'm in.

Back in the day, these communities were still secretive, but they were more-or-less built on trust. But things changed as more snake-like and untrustworthy people got their hands on what they've gained. Armed with a belief that everyone should have these, not knowing - or caring - about the consequences, they began employing many underhanded tactics to distribute the tracks/packs more widely. The result is: the leakers didn't get into trouble because the files have been distributed en masse, but the collectors do with their sources, or more accurately, the sources get in trouble with the record company.

It's why leaks have dried up and things have gone radio-silent outside a few bursts of activity. I don't condone some of the more extreme cases of gatekeeping the community does (especially not Korg's tendency to hide useless info like track times and when they were recorded/mixed), but their reluctance to share is relatively understandable and can be explained by cases like these. That's not to say some of them weren't always filled with their own ego, but others I've met have had the same testimony.

To put it bluntly: collectors are now playing with fire, and they don't want to get burnt in the process.
 
Collectors were the same 10 or even 20 years ago in the good old MJNO days ;) don't worry.. it has just become easier to fake stuff

The amount of leaks the past months/years is actually incredible. Lean back, and relisten to the late leaks. Just a suggestion

Ps: I have the feeling there is some more coming the upcoming 12 months. There is never only one trading circle, resulting in potential leaks.
;)
 
Because people don't know how to trade in silence anymore. Back then, you would trade and go about your day but now? People trade then upload a crappy audio snippet so people can beg because they're not loved at home and this is the most attention they get.
 
BlackAnon said:
Because people don't know how to trade in silence anymore. Back then, you would trade and go about your day but now? People trade then upload a crappy audio snippet so people can beg because they're not loved at home and this is the most attention they get.
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I love taking any chance I can to shit on south america, so I wanna say that this is still the case with spanish speaking singers/bands lol
It's not as pretty as it sounds. You essentially are forced to become a collector if you wanna get a random DVD from 2008.
I love how in the MJ community I can just go to forums and casually find an archive of literally everything that's ever leaked.
 
BlackAnon said:
Because people don't know how to trade in silence anymore. Back then, you would trade and go about your day but now? People trade then upload a crappy audio snippet so people can beg because they're not loved at home and this is the most attention they get.
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@Korgnex they’re calling you out, dawg.
 
Gluepix said:
@Korgnex they’re calling you out, dawg.
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LOL no call outs, just stating facts.

I said it before somewhere in this thread but when a few of us, and by a few, I mean no more than 5, were gifted copies of the Victory tour, we kept it to ourselves and barely spoke to each other about it until one of us felt the need to post a snippet to brag about it. He eventually leaked the entire show but that would've still been sitting in our hard drives had he not wanted the attention.
 
All of this talk “collecting back in the day used to be better” “I used to collect back then and it was better” y’all are so pathetic 😭😭😭😭😭

Nothing has CHANGED guys it’s just as things leak these losers want more rares so they get them and then those leak so they get more until there’s nothing that great left cause all the good stuff already leaked so all of you saying “omg I miss the days when I had stuff that wasn’t leaked and it was good” is just 😭😭😭😭😭

You were never supposed to have this shit and that’s why it leaked! So those pretending to think they’re above everyone else cause they themselves didn’t leak it but were directly involved with obtaining the material is just as guilty imo.
 
GYWOOM said:
All of this talk “collecting back in the day used to be better” “I used to collect back then and it was better” y’all are so pathetic 😭😭😭😭😭

Nothing has CHANGED guys it’s just as things leak these losers want more rares so they get them and then those leak so they get more until there’s nothing that great left cause all the good stuff already leaked so all of you saying “omg I miss the days when I had stuff that wasn’t leaked and it was good” is just 😭😭😭😭😭
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I don't think anyone is saying that.

Many of us have files in our possession but if anyone decides to leak it, just do it and stop the teasing with LQ snippets. Upload the file and go about your day.
 
GYWOOM said:
All of this talk “collecting back in the day used to be better” “I used to collect back then and it was better” y’all are so pathetic 😭😭😭😭😭

Nothing has CHANGED guys it’s just as things leak these losers want more rares so they get them and then those leak so they get more until there’s nothing that great left cause all the good stuff already leaked so all of you saying “omg I miss the days when I had stuff that wasn’t leaked and it was good” is just 😭😭😭😭😭
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Keep in mind that I simply got info about how it was from collectors I've talked to. And given how insanely cocky leakers and their advocates act sometimes, it's safe to say that no matter how insufferable certain collectors may be...leakers have the potential to be just as - if not more - childish than the worst of the collector's circuit.
 
SeriousFX said:
Keep in mind that I simply got info about how it was from collectors I've talked to. And given how insanely cocky leakers and their advocates act sometimes, it's safe to say that no matter how insufferable certain collectors may be...leakers have the potential to be just as - if not more - childish than the worst of the collector's circuit.
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There are extremists on both sides, I just can't comprehend trying to justify or defend collectors who buy and sell audio files. It's different if you refer to a collector of actual memorabilia. I guess getting physical DATs and stuff is a little different in terms of the collection aspect, but people who buy that stuff just digitize it and sell it anyway, after degrading the quality of course so they can tell that they were the origin of the source.

The leaking movement comes from those who are sick of these collectors gloating that they have stuff without giving out any kind of information about them. Which has definitely gotten a lot more extreme in years as well. But like you need to realize with collectors is after they obtain something, they will eventually end up selling it to obtain more stuff for their collection, which again goes back to selling audio files. That just isn't justifiable. You can't say that they obtained it legally without addressing that they're also reselling it after obtaining it. At least when something leaks they can't make more money off of this stuff. Which then prevents them from getting more stuff.

When they aren't able to get stuff -> Stuff doesn't leak. That's what we want right? Or is it only okay for some people to have stuff as long as they don't leak it, like? I'd rather have stuff leak where at least everyone can hear it besides people making a profit on it just to cycle that money into buying more stuff that only they have.
 
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