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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

AlwaysThere said:
Not sure I fully believe Shana is in contact with the estate. Odd that they’d engage with her with respect to future posthumous albums. It also directly contradicts the numerous things we’ve learned over the years (e.g., the one-off singles project in 2018, Teddy being invited to work on a new project as recently as last year).
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Who knows, I do find Shana credible though
AlwaysThere said:
Let the fans do what they do, like with Square One. Those have a far better chance.
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Not without money..
 
Victorious said:
Not without money..
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Every project hits this hurdle. It’s just a matter of figuring it out and navigating the bumps.

I look at it like this: if R. Kelly released a documentary proclaiming his innocence, there’s a zero percent chance I’m watching it. If an independent party did, I would at least give it a watch to see the arguments made. That’s how it is with the estate. Put them in the mix and the only people who will care are those who already know MJ is innocent. You have a far better chance with an unbiased cast and crew (hence why Taj’s documentary is also going to be a nightmare).
 
ChanceToDance said:
I would much rather have the song be released on a re-issue of Invincible than to see it take place on a new album after 9 years since the last album's release. Surely there are better songs available even if they might not be in the same level of completion as GYWOOM. Give us Buffalo Bill or something from the Bad era.
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YES !
Let's dream : Invincible 25

CD 1 : the original album

CD 2 :
The Way You Love Me (demo, TUC version),
We've Had Enough,
Beautiful Girl (Demo, TUC version),
Fall Again
Shout
What More Can I Give (All stars or solo demo),
Hollywood Tonight (1999 demo)
Another Day (original version)
Get Your Weight Off Of Me
+ 3 other unreleased songs

I don't like posthumous albums like the Estate did : collection of songs with no links, from different era. Michael = 4 songs from 2008-2009, 1 Invincible outtake, 1 Thriller outtake and 1 HIStory outtake. Any consistency
 
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Pollonio said:
YES !
Let's dream : Invincible 25

CD 1 : the original album

CD 2 :
The Way You Love Me (demo, TUC version),
We've Had Enough,
Beautiful Girl (Demo, TUC version),
Fall Again
Shout
What More Can I Give (All stars or solo demo),
Hollywood Tonight (1999 demo)
Another Day (original version)
Get Your Weight Off Of Me
+ 3 other unreleased songs

I don't like posthumous albums like the Estate did : collection of songs with no links, from different era. Michael = 4 songs from 2008-2009, 1 Invincible outtake, 1 Thriller outtake and 1 HIStory outtake. Any consistency
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Shout needs to be on a album
 
AlwaysThere said:
Every project hits this hurdle. It’s just a matter of figuring it out and navigating the bumps.

I look at it like this: if R. Kelly released a documentary proclaiming his innocence, there’s a zero percent chance I’m watching it. If an independent party did, I would at least give it a watch to see the arguments made. That’s how it is with the estate. Put them in the mix and the only people who will care are those who already know MJ is innocent. You have a far better chance with an unbiased cast and crew (hence why Taj’s documentary is also going to be a nightmare).
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Well that’s the end of it then, nobody else will do it, even if a so called independent person will undertake this task he will still be seen as a fan and thus not reliable.
 
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AlwaysThere said:
Not sure I fully believe Shana is in contact with the estate. Odd that they’d engage with her with respect to future posthumous albums. It also directly contradicts the numerous things we’ve learned over the years (e.g., the one-off singles project in 2018, Teddy being invited to work on a new project as recently as last year).
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Yeah, I'm really doubting that they would have contacted her if I'm honest. Maybe she contacted them to let them know that she had these tapes? It's possible they responded to that, I guess.

Also I'm not really surprised that (if she's telling the truth) they weren't that interested. It's the same story even with MJ's actual collaborators.
 
The Estate has no long term interest in unreleased Dangerous era material. When have they? No Dangerous 25 or Tours, no remastered videos. For All Time is labeled a Thriller outtake, Best of Joy is compared to "The Toy". Slave to the Rhythm and Do You Know Where Your Children Are the only big songs from that era, and the former is La Reid's song, so that's why. The latter is emphasized as a Bad era tune lol.

This is all just conjecture, but the timeline matches my theory tbh. They prefer straight 80s, or else songs in the 21st century, namely post Invincible. And HIStory is brancas favorite, and a good answer to all the Fake News™.

On a side note, how convenient of so many to dismiss post 90s work like Tabloid Junkie. Which honestly should be up there with They Don't Care About Us. But I digress
 
Pollonio said:
I don't like posthumous albums like the Estate did : collection of songs with no links, from different era. Michael = 4 songs from 2008-2009, 1 Invincible outtake, 1 Thriller outtake and 1 HIStory outtake. Any consistency
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Can you blame them though? There's hardly an album's worth of releasable outtakes left from each era and even then some of the songs aren't guaranteed to sound good. I would have loved for the Michael album to have all songs from the 2000's like it was intended to be but there's barely anything from that era.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Can you blame them though? There's hardly an album's worth of releasable outtakes left from each era and even then some of the songs aren't guaranteed to sound good. I would have loved for the Michael album to have all songs from the 2000's like it was intended to be but there's barely anything from that era.
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I dunno, it'd be quite easy to do a collection of material, explain it in a cohesive way and use the original demos. I get the argument of it not being profitable but realistically they make enough money just off of MJ's back catalogue so I don't really see a reason for them not to be doing stuff like this. I know comparing the MJ estate to others is often shot down around here but it is done and those other estates seem to be doing just fine. Not trying to start another 5 page debate on here with these comments but yeah it would cost them next to nothing compared to what they usually do so I don't see the issue.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I dunno, it'd be quite easy to do a collection of material, explain it in a cohesive way and use the original demos. I get the argument of it not being profitable but realistically they make enough money just off of MJ's back catalogue so I don't really see a reason for them not to be doing stuff like this. I know comparing the MJ estate to others is often shot down around here but it is done and those other estates seem to be doing just fine. Not trying to start another 5 page debate on here with these comments but yeah it would cost them next to nothing compared to what they usually do so I don't see the issue.
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The Estate themselves said that they're not interested in releasing songs that don't have full vocals because it wouldn't "paint MJ in his best light" and wouldn't attract new fans. If that's how they're going to operate then it's hard to blame them for picking songs from different eras for one album when the vault is that sparse.

Don't get me wrong, I would love more than anything for us to get a collection with unfinished demos and even with just instrumentals, but by only reading the Estate FAQ they make it clear that a project like that is never going to happen.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
On a side note, how convenient of so many to dismiss post 90s work like Tabloid Junkie. Which honestly should be up there with They Don't Care About Us. But I digress
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“Tabloid Junkie” is in the top five best produced MJ songs. It’s an absolute masterclass in every single sense.
ChanceToDance said:
The Estate themselves said that they're not interested in releasing songs that don't have full vocals because it wouldn't "paint MJ in his best light" and wouldn't attract new fans. If that's how they're going to operate then it's hard to blame them for picking songs from different eras for one album when the vault is that sparse.
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Choosing “Love Never Felt So Good” for XSCAPE (and the lead single) and releasing “What a Lovely Way to Go” on Thriller 40 completely dismantles these claims. I firmly believe they’re just saying things to get around the absence of new projects rather than just saying “yeah we aren’t doing anything at the moment.”
 
AlwaysThere said:
“Tabloid Junkie” is in the top five best produced MJ songs. It’s an absolute masterclass in every single sense.

Choosing “Love Never Felt So Good” for XSCAPE (and the lead single) and releasing “What a Lovely Way to Go” on Thriller 40 completely dismantles these claims. I firmly believe they’re just saying things to get around the absence of new projects rather than just saying “yeah we aren’t doing anything at the moment.”
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Those songs have full vocals for the most part though. What I'm trying to say is that it's extremely unlikely that they'd officially release songs with little to no vocals, they're aware that it would only please fans and not bring in new audiences which is what they say they aim for.
 
ChanceToDance said:
The Estate themselves said that they're not interested in releasing songs that don't have full vocals because it wouldn't "paint MJ in his best light" and wouldn't attract new fans. If that's how they're going to operate then it's hard to blame them for picking songs from different eras for one album when the vault is that sparse.

Don't get me wrong, I would love more than anything for us to get a collection with unfinished demos and even with just instrumentals, but by only reading the Estate FAQ they make it clear that a project like that is never going to happen.
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They can't talk about being respectful to MJ with their current operation tbh. I get they say these things but looking at it objectively it is just an excuse to continue doing what they are doing in the way they want. Obviously there are many different viewpoints on what would and would not be respectful, but the estate has not at all been consistent in what their stance is supposed to be.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
They can't talk about being respectful to MJ with their current operation tbh. I get they say these things but looking at it objectively it is just an excuse to continue doing what they are doing in the way they want. Obviously there are many different viewpoints on what would and would not be respectful, but the estate has not at all been consistent in what their stance is supposed to be.
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Yeah that's why I put that in quotation marks lmao. My point is that a collection with unfinished demos won't happen because we, the fans, are not the Estate's focus and the way they deal with projects that are more targeted for fans (T40, disc 2 of Xscape and the 2016 re-issue of Off The Wall) proves that. Everyone should keep that in mind when wondering why certain projects can't happen, simply because we're not the Estate's focus and they're intent on attracting new audiences instead.
 
I think the estate is doing better than most people give them credit for, but I agree that their messaging is ridiculously inconsistent. Pick a lane and stick to it; the whole “we wouldn’t do this” followed by them promptly choosing to do just that is lame.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Everyone should keep that in mind when wondering why certain projects can't happen,
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It's not so much wondering why certain projects don't happen. For me, it's more about wondering why MJE just doesn't seem to want to change their thinking on this. They have their business model but I see no reason why that can't evolve and change.

ChanceToDance said:
simply because we're not the Estate's focus and they're intent on attracting new audiences instead.
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But isn't this the crux of this particular discussion? MJE seem to be exclusively fixated on attracting new fans for Michael. Which is fine and laudable and I don't think many people would argue with that as an objective. But they have enough money to diversify with the type of projects that they do. I'm not expecting them to do that, I'm just saying it's perfectly possible.

AlwaysThere said:
I think the estate is doing better than most people give them credit for, but I agree that their messaging is ridiculously inconsistent. Pick a lane and stick to it; the whole “we wouldn’t do this” followed by them promptly choosing to do just that is lame.
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I don't follow MJE closely but even I can see the inconsistency, lol.

SmoothGangsta said:
I dunno, it'd be quite easy to do a collection of material, explain it in a cohesive way and use the original demos.
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This is my default thinking on this and I will never understand why they don't do it. I've heard all the arguments about their preference for commercially viable projects. Everyone understands that. It's not complicated. Stuff that will sell and stuff that is more 'niche' can easily sit alongside each other.

SmoothGangsta said:
I get the argument of it not being profitable but realistically they make enough money just off of MJ's back catalogue so I don't really see a reason for them not to be doing stuff like this.
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There is no reason. Not that I can see. It's bonkers, lol.

SmoothGangsta said:
I know comparing the MJ estate to others is often shot down around here but it is done and those other estates seem to be doing just fine.
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They are. I see stuff coming out all the time. No, those artists are not at the level of Michael but that's not the point. There are some charming, interesting, exciting little projects out there. MJE could easily do the same. I bet there are people on the team at MJE who would love to work on a smaller, more 'niche' project if they were given the freedom to do it. I understand that there isn't an infinite amount of unreleased material but there is some. Perhaps more than was first thought. There certainly seems to be enough for at least a couple of small 'artisan' projects. Michael always wanted everything to be big. Sales, stage effects, being the first, being the biggest. But MJE could try something a little different.

SmoothGangsta said:
Not trying to start another 5 page debate on here with these comments
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:ROFLMAO:

SmoothGangsta said:
but yeah it would cost them next to nothing compared to what they usually do
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This is the other bit I don't understand. Putting out a carefully curated box set isn't gonna break the bank.

ChanceToDance said:
Don't get me wrong, I would love more than anything for us to get a collection with unfinished demos and even with just instrumentals, but by only reading the Estate FAQ they make it clear that a project like that is never going to happen.
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Fair point. If it was me I'd be looking at some of the projects that have come out in recent years and I'd be wanting to do something similar for Michael. I would want that for him as an artist. Funnily enough, no-one has ever offered me the job of running a global legacy estate. Must be a reason for that, lol. 🤷‍♀️
 
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AlwaysThere said:
Every project hits this hurdle. It’s just a matter of figuring it out and navigating the bumps.

I look at it like this: if R. Kelly released a documentary proclaiming his innocence, there’s a zero percent chance I’m watching it. If an independent party did, I would at least give it a watch to see the arguments made. That’s how it is with the estate. Put them in the mix and the only people who will care are those who already know MJ is innocent. You have a far better chance with an unbiased cast and crew (hence why Taj’s documentary is also going to be a nightmare).
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An objective journalist would be most perfect yes, but apparantly no one dares, too complex perhaps. I believe it's the Estate's job to do everything in it's power to take care of MJ's legacy and image, they can lay down the foundation for journalists to jump on
 
ChanceToDance said:
Can you blame them though? There's hardly an album's worth of releasable outtakes left from each era and even then some of the songs aren't guaranteed to sound good. I would have loved for the Michael album to have all songs from the 2000's like it was intended to be but there's barely anything from that era.
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Yes, i can blame them for this.
It's easy to make collections of songs from the same era.

Let's continue to dream :

2010 : MICHAEL
(Collection of songs recorded or work between 2007 and 2009)

CD1
Hold My Hand
The Red One song (Dancing is Love ?)
Hollywood Tonight
I Like The Way You Love Me
Best Of Joy
I Am A Loser
Two complete songs (recorded with Brad Buxer, or Neff U ? Breath, Water, You Were There...?)
Lady of Summer (classical piece)
Remember What I Told You

CD2
10 demos of unfinished songs, also taken in the list of songs to finished found in MJ home in 2009

2012 : BAD25

2013 : Xscape
Collection of Invincible outtakes

CD 1
A Place With No Name
Blue Gangsta
She Was Loving Me (Chicago)
Get You Weight Off Of Me
Xscape
+ 4 other finished songs recorded with Rodney Jerkins, Teddy Riley or Dr Freeze
Another Day

CD 2
All the Invincible outtakes released on TUC + What More Can I Give + Shout


2018 : Third posthumous album
Collection of Dangerous outtakes

Slave to the rythm
Do You Know Where Your Children Are
If You Don't Love Me
Serious Effect
She Got It
Work That Body
+ 6 other finished songs recorded with John Barnes, Bryan Loren and Teddy Riley

It takes me 15 minutes to write this. So yes, i blame the Estate for the no consistency posthumous albums released
 
There's so many Dangerous unreleased songs for an anniversary album
 
Victorious said:
An objective journalist would be most perfect yes, but apparantly no one dares, too complex perhaps. I believe it's the Estate's job to do everything in it's power to take care of MJ's legacy and image, they can lay down the foundation for journalists to jump on
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But just as the prospect of an objective journalist seems unrealistic, so too is the idea that any foundation laid out by the Estate would be accepted. It’s difficult enough convincing media outlets and skeptics to consider any of the independently-funded pro-innocence pieces; anything with the estate’s direct oversight would be dead in the water.

I understand the idea, but on a pragmatic level it would cause more issues than solutions. Keep the family and the Estate miles away, I say.
 
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