The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

[dethorro]

I doubt it’s “Ghost of Another Lover.” Signs point to “Ghost” first being worked on around 1991.

While this may be true, it’s also important to point out that the song is not even titled “Ghost”, but “Ghosts”.

Additionally, apart from this sheet mentioning the song and the “signs” that point to it first being worked on around 1991, do we have any information that indicate to the song even being seriously considered for Dangerous? We know Ghost Of Another Lover was worked on during these sessions. Any info that points to Ghosts even being demoed during the sessions?

And finally, why would he write “get lyrics from writer” about a song he wrote himself?

In my opinion, the idea that the song he was referring to is Ghost Of Another Lover is more likely, with the information we have so far. Perhaps I’m wrong and you’re right.

Plus, on a more irrelevant note, it seems odd that MJ would spell out every song title but that one.

Except he did not. ‘Messin Round’ and “MJ & Madonna Duet” are both not spelled out.

 

[JohnC]

If I’m not mistaken, it isn’t confirmed that “Bubbles” is a Loren tune.

Bubbles is a Loren tune - it contains many of the drum/synth presets that he uses in other songs.

I can say with confidence that Bottrell, Buxer, Riley and Swedien/ Moore wouldn't be capable of producing such trash.

EDIT: In fairness to Bryan, the song wasn't released, so probably I'm being too harsh. It's okay to have ideas that don't workout or go anywhere.

 

[SmoothMel7]

Bubbles is a Loren tune - it contains many of the drum/synth presets that he uses in other songs.

I can say with confidence that Bottrell, Buxer, Riley and Swedien/ Moore wouldn't be capable of producing such trash.

EDIT: In fairness to Bryan, the song wasn't released, so probably I'm being too harsh. It's okay to have ideas that don't workout or go anywhere.

Besides "Bubbles" and "Men In Black", have you heard any other Bryan Loren songs?

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

“Don’t Be Messin’ ‘Round” is a good song and I’ll die on that hill. Nothing spectacular, but it’s an interesting little experiment.

Imo, this was one of the highlights of Bad25. It has such a groove and vibe. I really hope that there is a more completed version of this song in the vault. It has massive potential.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Regarding the still unheard Bryan Loren's songs, Bryan Loren himself stated that most of them do not have Michael Jackson's vocals on them, but only music.

That is why, although they leaked, yet they do not circulate because they attract no interest from fans.

In any case, the Michael Jackson Estate and Sony Music told Bryan Loren that they are not going to release songs (with Michael Jackson's vocals on them) from those Bryan Loren sessions.

 

[Inthestudiowithmj]

We don't need many more Michael/Xscape type records but we definitely need successors to The Ultimate Collection and Anniversary Edition Album Rereleases.

Agree. One of my most wanted things is an anthology package of 2002-2009 tracks. It would be a great release for fans, all they would have to do is mix the songs, master it and throw it on streaming services, super easy. It doesn’t need to be heavily promoted, just put out for us.

 

[Beano Wild]

Agree. One of my most wanted things is an anthology package of 2002-2009 tracks. It would be a great release for fans, all they would have to do is mix the songs, master it and throw it on streaming services, super easy. It doesn’t need to be heavily promoted, just put out for us.

that'd make no sense from a business standpoint, Remixes & the original versions on the deluxe editions is the most realistic scenario.

 

[Inthestudiowithmj]

that'd make no sense from a business standpoint, Remixes & the original versions on the deluxe editions is the most realistic scenario.

From a business standpoint, they are making no money by keeping them in the vault. If they put it out as I said, they would at least be making royalties from streaming, YouTube etc. btw I’m specifically thinking of the tracks which could not be used for any other project, like Boy No, Rocker, Dark Lady, Just Remember. They don’t fit on a project that the estate wants to put out.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

that'd make no sense from a business standpoint, Remixes & the original versions on the deluxe editions is the most realistic scenario.

From a business standpoint, they are making no money by keeping them in the vault. If they put it out as I said, they would at least be making royalties from streaming, YouTube etc. btw I’m specifically thinking of the tracks which could not be used for any other project, like Boy No, Rocker, Dark Lady, Just Remember. They don’t fit on a project that the estate wants to put out.

The long spoken of duets album is still an option. And giving tracks away ala Don't Matter To Me.

 

[Inthestudiowithmj]

The long spoken of duets album is still an option. And giving tracks away ala Don't Matter To Me.

That’s fair, that would be a good option. As long as we get originals on a deluxe.

 

[zinniabooklover]

From a business standpoint, they are making no money by keeping them in the vault. If they put it out as I said, they would at least be making royalties from streaming, YouTube etc. btw I’m specifically thinking of the tracks which could not be used for any other project, like Boy No, Rocker, Dark Lady, Just Remember. They don’t fit on a project that the estate wants to put out.

Agree with all of this. Plus, as I've said before, there's no reason why MJE can't do a few small 'side' projects like this which absolutely won't make them money but which pay attention to Michael's legacy more from an artistic point of view. Michael himself wouldn't want unfinished material released but I wonder if he truly understood just how fascinating he was / still is to his audience? Some people would be critical of this type of release but I bet there would be as many (if not more) people who would be really interested in this stuff and wouldn't treat it as another opportunity to pick holes in Michael but, rather, a chance to understand better what he was doing at a certain point in his life / career.

 

[filmandmusic]

I wonder if he truly understood just how fascinating he was / still is to his audience?

It’s crazy to me how obsessed we (and I) still are to hear his unfinished craft. It’s debated daily, false snippets are leaked, distorted snippets are leaked and we all go crazy over them anyway. I dare to claim it is the only thing that keeps this forum alive lol

 

[filmandmusic]

@ChanceToDance

Neverland Landing and Make A Wish are 2 of my hottest wishes. I can only fantasize how magical the songs and his voice are because of the era and the project they were recorded in/for.

 

[NetflexKing]

It’s crazy to me how obsessed we (and I) still are to hear his unfinished craft. It’s debated daily, false snippets are leaked, distorted snippets are leaked and we all go crazy over them anyway. I dare to claim it is the only thing that keeps this forum alive lol

After all it's our favourite artist's craft in its purest form. "The Genesis" of the idea he had. The start of a potential masterpiece that never was. That's what keep us obsessed with those little "stupid" demos.

 

[AlwaysThere]

While this may be true, it’s also important to point out that the song is not even titled “Ghost”, but “Ghosts”.

To be fair to us both, reading into MJ’s song titles is a losing battle. Why are “Tabloid Junkie,” “Superfly Sister,” and “Earth Song” titled as such when those phrases are never spoken/sung? Why aren’t the songs titled “Ghost,” “She’s Driving Me Wild,” or “They Don’t Really Care About Us,” since those are the actual lyrics? There wasn’t always consistency in these situations.

Additionally, apart from this sheet mentioning the song and the “signs” that point to it first being worked on around 1991, do we have any information that indicate to the song even being seriously considered for Dangerous? We know Ghost Of Another Lover was worked on during these sessions. Any info that points to Ghosts even being demoed during the sessions?

The same question could be posed regarding “Ghost of Another Lover”—While it was worked on, has anyone ever confirmed that it was in serious consideration?

And finally, why would he write “get lyrics from writer” about a song he wrote himself?

Outsourcing isn’t uncommon. MJ did it during these very sessions when Teddy Riley reworked a handful of early demos. Plus, if we’re being pedantic here, we haven’t yet gotten confirmation as to whether or not this is an MJ solo composition.

Except he did not. ‘Messin Round’ and “MJ & Madonna Duet” are both not spelled out.

“Messin’ ‘Round” is one of at least three working titles for that song. “MJ & Madonna Duet” (of course referring to “In the Closet”) likely didn't have a title at the time, as the two were still deliberating what direction the song would take. There’s only one (publicly available) note on which that song title is written, and it’s spelled out fully.

No disrespect intended here! You very well could be right. I just think, given the known circumstances, it doesn’t make much sense for that song to be GOAL.

 

[Victorious]

Your thoughts on a 'reboot':

All the demo's, leaks and songs that we (already) know that didn't make the original albums but now mixed once again...
However, this time ddone well: 'finished' by some talented people according to their rightful era's:

Would you pay for that?

 

[Derek1984]

It’s crazy to me how obsessed we (and I) still are to hear his unfinished craft. It’s debated daily, false snippets are leaked, distorted snippets are leaked and we all go crazy over them anyway. I dare to claim it is the only thing that keeps this forum alive lol

It's really the only reason why I come to post here.

I remember the old AOL forums back in the late 90's early 00's regarding unreleased music. Seeing titles like Sunset Driver and always wondering what that sounded like.

 

[ChanceToDance]

My interest for those demos mainly comes from the fact that they're the closest thing to new content we'll ever have (and also because most of those songs sound great lol). If Michael was alive and still making music I'm not sure if I'd care too much about some half-finished song that was discarded many years ago.

The only songs I would probably have interest in would be the ones that sound so good to the point it makes you wonder why they ever missed an album on first place. It's pretty much how I feel about the unreleased work of any other artist that I like.

 

[BlackAnon]

My interest for those demos mainly comes from the fact that they're the closest thing to new content we'll ever have (and also because most of those songs sound great lol). If Michael was alive and still making music I'm not sure if I'd care too much about some half-finished song that was discarded many years ago.

The only songs I would probably have interest in would be the ones that sound so good to the point it makes you wonder why they ever missed an album on first place. It's pretty much how I feel about the unreleased work of any other artist that I like.

Just think, if Michael were still alive, we wouldn't have heard any of this material.

I remember he said in an interview he revisits material and ask "okay why didn't this make the album?"

 

[AlwaysThere]

Your thoughts on a 'reboot':

All the demo's, leaks and songs that we (already) know that didn't make the original albums but now mixed once again...
However, this time ddone well: 'finished' by some talented people according to their rightful era's:

Would you pay for that?

Yeah, absolutely. Hell, I’d pay for an album where they just release the original demos with a proper mix.

 

[DanGerouS-]

when AI tries to save those LQ TYLA vocals:

 

[SmoothMel7]

I found an eBay sale of a song called "Burning the Ashes." Do you have any information that could confirm that this song exists? I think this is a fake.

RARE UNRELEASED Michael Jackson Song Titled "Burning the Ashes" INVINCIBLE ERA | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RARE UNRELEASED Michael Jackson Song Titled "Burning the Ashes" INVINCIBLE ERA at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Here is a rare unreleased Michael Jackson song titled "Burning the Ashes" from the INVINCIBLE ERA. With this song waiting to be heard, this track comes in FULL CDQ with a duration of 5:38. Produced with the talented Rodney Jerkins, this piece of Music Memorabilia is a must-have for all Michael Jackson fans who would like to experience listening to this track. Once paid, you would be receiving the song via EMAIL in a .WAV file. As this is a private sale, this excludes any kind of return or warranty of any sort. Grab yourself a hold of this one and a lifetime audio/song to immerse the Michael Jackson unreleased experience! If you have any questions, please contact me.

I sent a message to the seller yesterday, but got no response.

 

[JohnC]

I found an eBay sale of a song called "Burning the Ashes." Do you have any information that could confirm that this song exists? I think this is a fake.

RARE UNRELEASED Michael Jackson Song Titled "Burning the Ashes" INVINCIBLE ERA | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RARE UNRELEASED Michael Jackson Song Titled "Burning the Ashes" INVINCIBLE ERA at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Here is a rare unreleased Michael Jackson song titled "Burning the Ashes" from the INVINCIBLE ERA. With this song waiting to be heard, this track comes in FULL CDQ with a duration of 5:38. Produced with the talented Rodney Jerkins, this piece of Music Memorabilia is a must-have for all Michael Jackson fans who would like to experience listening to this track. Once paid, you would be receiving the song via EMAIL in a .WAV file. As this is a private sale, this excludes any kind of return or warranty of any sort. Grab yourself a hold of this one and a lifetime audio/song to immerse the Michael Jackson unreleased experience! If you have any questions, please contact me.

I sent a message to the seller yesterday, but got no response.

I hope I don't come across as self-aggrandising in saying this, but:

When I put up the Pensacola rehearsal and Bad Tour LA tapes on eBay, I had the courtesy to provide snippets (10 - 15 minutes for each.) And personally, I think that should serve as a reasonable standard to adhere to with these kinds of ridiculous auctions.

 

[IMWhizzle]

The rap on BoW was written by Bill Bottrell.

Well. Bryan Loren told the MJCast that he originally wrote it.

 

[michaeljackson.nl]

Well. Bryan Loren told the MJCast that he originally wrote it.

Bill wrote it first and Bryan Loren made a few changes so it would flow better.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

I just don't find Loren all that reliable when it comes to what he worked on and didn't

 

[michaeljackson.nl]

x.com

x.com

 

[AlwaysThere]

I hope I don't come across as self-aggrandising in saying this, but:

When I put up the Pensacola rehearsal and Bad Tour LA tapes on eBay, I had the courtesy to provide snippets (10 - 15 minutes for each.) And personally, I think that should serve as a reasonable standard to adhere to with these kinds of ridiculous auctions.

Yeah, this seems like common sense. Any auction that doesn’t include snippets by default should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[MJ5]

I made a list a while back containing most of the titles we know of but I updated it a bit with the info we got in recent times:

Completed:
Get Your Weight Off Of Me
I Was The Loser
3-4 Tim & Bob Songs
I'm Dreamin'

Mostly Finished:
I Have This Dream (2005)
Neverland Landing
Make A Wish
Tomboy
Little Susie (1978)
Crack Kills
What You Do To Me (1985)
Joy
Best Of Joy (1991)

Advanced Demos:
Boy No
Days In Gloucestershire
Saturday Woman

Partial demos:
Remember What I Told You
She Don't Love Me
Adore You
Monster
All The Truth
Hot Fun In The Summertime
Water
Innocent Man
Call It Off

Rough demos:
Dark Lady
Rocker
Seven Digits
For The World
Don't Believe It
What You Do To Me (1998/The Way You Love Me Demo)
Changes
Make Or Break
Far Far Away
Victory

Never recorded:
Broken Chair
Coco Butter
Backseat Lover
Walk Away
6 Songs Written By Ne-Yo
Truth About Youth
Evil Eye
Why Can't You Hear Me
6 Songs Produced By Bill Botrell in Bahrain
Oh Yeah
Jungle City
I've Got Her Number
Bottom Of My Heart
That
Stop Playin'
Garbage
Breed
If I Were To Wish
Blue Powder
Revenge
Willing And Waiting
Bombay Nights
D.I.E
Light The Way
Frank Friday Night
Is She Coming Back
I Love You (Taryll Jackson)
King Tutankhamen
Loving You (2003 Buxer/Cascio demo)
Red Eye
Pajamas
Rise Above It All
Rock Tonight
Think Twice
Silent Spring
11 p.m
Craze
Photographs
Shut Up And Dance
I Love You More
Stand Tall
Colorblind

Unclear completion:
He Who Makes The Sky Gray
Don't Be Messin'
Bad Girl
Alright Now
What's Your Life
Eaten Alive
2-3 More Tim & Bob Songs
Girls, Girls, Girls
Ekam Satyam
Bad Girl
Trash Can Song
Happy Song
Buffalo Bill
Scream-O-Blaster
Groove Of Midnight
Choir Song
Peter Pan
A Way With Words
The Future
World Of Candy
Rolling The Dice
Turning Me Off

Classical piece/scores/experimental tracks:
Green Hornet Groove
Homeless Bound
Son Of Thriller
Lady Of Summer
MJ/BB Orchestral Idea #1, #2, #3
Michael's Affirmation
Bubbles
Thank Heaven
Iowa
Christmas Song
Orchestral Holiday Songs

Unknown:
I Will Miss You
Bio
D.N.A
Breathe
I'm Still The King
Earth Love
Dancing For Love
Get Around
Seven Bright New Stars
All Right
Doing Dirty
Boogie Woogie
Love Heals
Seduction
Heaven With A Smile
Miami Vice
Too Late To Turn Back Now
Ron Industrial Age Song
Brad Loop 100
Brad Loop 3700
Brad Loop 3.3.7 MJ
Pray For Peace
Soldier's Entrance
Fanfare Transiton
Rap
Promise
The World Is No Church
A Baby Smiles
Under Your Skin
Stay
Get Up
A Chance To Dance
Can't Stop Lovin' You
Get You Back
Janet And MJ Duet
You Ain't Gonna Change Nothin'
Kentucky
Disco Kids
She's Not A Girl
Lucy Is In Love With Linus
Who's The Girl With Her Hair Down
Lonely Man
Lonely Bird
Pressure
Going To Rio
I Have This Dream (1999)
Thank You For Life
Ode To Sorrow
Sweet Music
Everybody Wants To Be A Movie Star
You Were There
You Are A Liar
Cry
Sister Sue
Get Around
Little Girls
In The Valley
I Forgive You
Why Shy
I Have This Love Of Me
Llama Lola
Kentucky
In The Life Of Chico
Hanson
People Have To Make Some Sort Of Joke
We Are The Ones
Fantasy
The Sky Is The Limit
Saved By The Bell
I Am That One
Just For Now
Dreams
You Are There
Leaving Today To Behind
Michael McKellar
California Grass
Rich Girl
Be Me 4 A Day
Tragedy Of A Cheerleader
The Sky Is The Limit
Somewhere In Time
Splash! We Can Get Wet Babe
Apocalypse Now
The Choice
Boots Groove
Children's Hour
Slipped Away
Heat Of The Night
Doing Dirty
MJ Melody
Rap
Nymphette Lover
Why Can't I Be?

So there are plenty of titles of course, but they're all in varying stages of completion. Plus there's the chance that they might not be good enough to be put on albums so I can see where the Estate is coming from when they say there aren't many songs left. Personally I would still love to hear them all regardless of the state they're in.

Could you add main producer and latest year that the song was being worked on.

 

[kreen]

when AI tries to save those LQ TYLA vocals:

Am I crazy, or is that not bad?