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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Gluepix said:
What were actually getting from the estate in the next posthumous album: 9 songs that we have already heard from the Ultimate Collection and a single song that we have literally never heard of before.
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Don't forget the added bonus that the songs from the Ultimate Collection are in lesser quality and the new song isn't the final mix.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
I don't think its selfish—we all have a favorite artist in Michael and ofc we would want to hear what could be.

I can see:

Hold My Hand
Hollywood
Ghost of Another Lover
Ways You Love Me
Best of Joy
Remember What I Told You
Dark Lady
Shut Up and Dance
From The Bottom of My Heart
Beautiful Girl
Days in Glouchestershire
I Was The Loser
Broken Chair
Breath


As strong candidates for the next album
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be honest none of these songs are that good 😭
 
Hudson112 said:
Just wanted to pop in here to say Remember What I Told You is peak and I guess it goes to show that in 2008, those sentimental ballads were mainly what MJ was feeling between that and Best of Joy and Hold My Hand.
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“He predicted the reality of songs like Die With a Smile and Luther being global hits obviously”
 
So are we not gonna leak Boy No? Are we done for the day? Will there be more tomorrow? C'mon now... I can wait for Monster, I can wait for any other song, where is Boy No? I dunno, maybe we should leak the song? Send it in lossless why don't you?

@GYWOOM
@Korgnex
funny-faces-part-2-v0-k1gboismwtsb1.jpg
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I do like the songs we’re hearing. But, they do lessen the pain of not having the 11th studio album. The reality of the tracks aren’t as exciting as the idea based on that sheet of paper in the bedroom.
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I'm still high off the fact we have them. I need to wait until I calm down and review 'em properly, LOL.

There's also the idea that he might not have done an album and gone for a 'singles only' route... Maybe having individual songs instead of a full LP would have made them look stronger, if that makes sense? More of an event, too. We know Mike was tuned into the idea of the 'event single' being the next big thing - which did end up happening - so he could have gone all in on that.

Endless possibilities when it comes to MJ, which is why I love my alternate timeline stuff. Great private creative writing exercise for me.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I do like the songs we’re hearing. But, they do lessen the pain of not having the 11th studio album. The reality of the tracks aren’t as exciting as the idea based on that sheet of paper in the bedroom.
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That’s why I never try to compare his unreleased music to his released material. I don’t care how far along a song is or sounds. Unless it had MJ’s stamp of approval and came out on his albums, it won’t be the same. Don’t get me wrong, it’s always nice to listen to these sketches/demos/ work in progress etc, but it’s impossible to predict how they would have sounded if they were released. Songs like Time Keeps Marching On, Speed Demon (Demo), Dangerous Early Demo, even Billie Jean Demo, gives you an idea of how a song can completely change and evolve into something brilliant.

Imagine if MJ never released Billie Jean and that home demo from 81 leaked today. I’m sure some would say “yeah it’s cool, it has a lot of potential.” But I don’t think anyone would say that it could become one of the most famous and beloved songs of all time, haha.
 
Xeones said:
I really am becoming the "Potential Man" meme with the way I glaze almost any song that leaks... Oh, well! Glass half full and all that jazz.
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I’m going to say something that might come across as controversial, and may even be slightly uncomfortable, but I've really sat with this for awhile and given it some deep thought.

MJ’s genius was not obvious at the demo stage. It emerged through obsession, subtraction, refinement, and an almost brutal level of self editing. This painstaking process is part of what made him a genius.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I’m going to say something that might come across as controversial, and may even be slightly uncomfortable, but I've really sat with this for awhile and given it some deep thought.

MJ’s genius was not obvious at the demo stage. It emerged through obsession, subtraction, refinement, and an almost brutal level of self editing. This painstaking process is part of what made him a genius.
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Oh no, I agree totally. I think you can always hear the genesis of "something", though, which makes it exciting for me.

For a perfectionist, the genius is always at full mast on the final mix, because that is where they intend for it to be on display. It's like comparing a random take of Good Vibrations by The Beach Boys to what they put out on the radio.
 
Xeones said:
I'm still high off the fact we have them. I need to wait until I calm down and review 'em properly, LOL.

There's also the idea that he might not have done an album and gone for a 'singles only' route... Maybe having individual songs instead of a full LP would have made them look stronger, if that makes sense? More of an event, too. We know Mike was tuned into the idea of the 'event single' being the next big thing - which did end up happening - so he could have gone all in on that.

Endless possibilities when it comes to MJ, which is why I love my alternate timeline stuff. Great private creative writing exercise for me.
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I definitely love hearing them all, things are just different in 2026, maybe reality has set in for me now.

The idea of singles only makes these songs stand out even less in my mind unfortunately haha. Except for Dark Lady and Hollywood Tonight, I imagine all the uptempos would be filtered through whatever producer he partnered with. SUAD would need a proper reinterpretation.

The ballads would be good. But I feel like he’d try not to do another Invincible just cause he’s been there done that.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I’m going to say something that might come across as controversial, and may even be slightly uncomfortable, but I've really sat with this for awhile and given it some deep thought.

MJ’s genius was not obvious at the demo stage. It emerged through obsession, subtraction, refinement, and an almost brutal level of self editing. This painstaking process is part of what made him a genius.
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Well I don’t ageee with that at all. Literally any demo from the Thriller or Bad albums show the genius. Beat It with just the harmonies? Like what do you mean?
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I definitely love hearing them all, things are just different in 2026, maybe reality has set in for me now.

The idea of singles only makes these songs stand out even less in my mind unfortunately haha. Except for Dark Lady and Hollywood Tonight, I imagine all the uptempos would be filtered through whatever producer he partnered with. SUAD would need a proper reinterpretation.

The ballads would be good. But I feel like he’d try not to do another Invincible just cause he’s been there done that.
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Yeah... I do wish the leaks we were getting had been a bit more finished. I'm happy to have them, but I can 100% see what you mean.

Hollywood Tonight and Dark Lady do sound superb, if that's what you meant. Both had hit potential in my ears. Even though we haven't heard much of the latter. LOL
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well I don’t ageee with that at all. Literally any demo from the Thriller or Bad albums show the genius. Beat It with just the harmonies? Like what do you mean?
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I get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree that a lot of MJ’s demos are impressive on their own. My point isn’t that the demos lack genius. It’s that the kind of genius Michael had often wasn’t fully apparent at the demo stage. Take Beat It with just the harmonies. Yes, that already shows melody, structure, and instinct. But what made Beat It Beat It wasn’t just that skeleton. It was the refinement, the restraint, the production decisions, the sonic identity that came later.

If the demo were the finished statement, the song wouldn’t be what it became. The genius wasn’t just in the idea, it was in what he chose to add, what he chose to remove, and when he knew it was done. So I’m not saying “MJ demos aren’t genius.” I’m saying his greatest genius often reveals itself through process, not at the first sketch. And of course, this could be said about any artist, really, but I think this is especially true for MJ because of his unorthodox way of creating music. this is especially important when people judge unreleased or unfinished material as if it represents what he would’ve put out. That’s the distinction I’m trying to make.
 
Xeones said:
Oh no, I agree totally. I think you can always hear the genesis of "something", though, which makes it exciting for me.

For a perfectionist, the genius is always at full mast on the final mix, because that is where they intend for it to be on display. It's like comparing a random take of Good Vibrations by The Beach Boys to what they put out on the radio.
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Yeah, totally agree. You can usually hear the seed of something special in the demos, and that’s what makes them exciting. That Beach Boys example was great. I just think with someone as obsessive and perfectionist as Michael, the genius was always meant to fully reveal itself in the finished version. The demo is the genesis, not the destination.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree that a lot of MJ’s demos are impressive on their own. My point isn’t that the demos lack genius. It’s that the kind of genius Michael had often wasn’t fully apparent at the demo stage. Take Beat It with just the harmonies. Yes, that already shows melody, structure, and instinct. But what made Beat It Beat It wasn’t just that skeleton. It was the refinement, the restraint, the production decisions, the sonic identity that came later.

If the demo were the finished statement, the song wouldn’t be what it became. The genius wasn’t just in the idea, it was in what he chose to add, what he chose to remove, and when he knew it was done. So I’m not saying “MJ demos aren’t genius.” I’m saying his greatest genius often reveals itself through process, not at the first sketch. And of course, this could be said about any artist, really, but I think this is especially true for MJ because of his unorthodox way of creating music. this is especially important when people judge unreleased or unfinished material as if it represents what he would’ve put out. That’s the distinction I’m trying to make.
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It makes sense if you look at it this way, yes: Michael was the full package as an entertainer, so it makes sense to think his songs are best heard as the full package - or finished product - as well.
 
Xeones said:
It makes sense if you look at it this way, yes: Michael was the full package as an entertainer, so it makes sense to think his songs are best heard as the full package - or finished product - as well.
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Yes, exactly! And I think it goes even further when you look at his background. Michael wasn’t just an entertainer who happened to write songs, he came up in a system that trained him to deliver finished, polished performances, not rough drafts. He wasn’t groomed as a songwriter in the conventional sense, and he didn’t have the typical tools or private space to develop ideas in isolation. Because of that, his demos were rarely meant to function as “mini versions” (Though this changed with Bad, and I’ll like to talk about this too) of the final song. They were more like blueprints, ways of getting what he heard in his head into the room so it could eventually be built properly. The real artistry often happened later, through refinement, subtraction, and collaboration with other musicians.

What I’m trying to say is that when people say his music is best judged as a finished product, I agree. With Michael especially, the full package wasn’t just the performance, it was the entire process reaching completion. Judging the sketches without that context can miss what made him special in the first place.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree that a lot of MJ’s demos are impressive on their own. My point isn’t that the demos lack genius. It’s that the kind of genius Michael had often wasn’t fully apparent at the demo stage. Take Beat It with just the harmonies. Yes, that already shows melody, structure, and instinct. But what made Beat It Beat It wasn’t just that skeleton. It was the refinement, the restraint, the production decisions, the sonic identity that came later.

If the demo were the finished statement, the song wouldn’t be what it became. The genius wasn’t just in the idea, it was in what he chose to add, what he chose to remove, and when he knew it was done. So I’m not saying “MJ demos aren’t genius.” I’m saying his greatest genius often reveals itself through process, not at the first sketch. And of course, this could be said about any artist, really, but I think this is especially true for MJ because of his unorthodox way of creating music. this is especially important when people judge unreleased or unfinished material as if it represents what he would’ve put out. That’s the distinction I’m trying to make.
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Well when you put it like that I do agree more. But is it strictly MJs genius or is it his craft combined with him knowing when to collaborate to the right degree?

Working with QJ, Teddy, etc, hiring instrumentalists instead of just becoming a multi instrumentalist, etc.

Very interesting discussion actually.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I’m going to say something that might come across as controversial, and may even be slightly uncomfortable, but I've really sat with this for awhile and given it some deep thought.

MJ’s genius was not obvious at the demo stage. It emerged through obsession, subtraction, refinement, and an almost brutal level of self editing. This painstaking process is part of what made him a genius.
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The producer’s role was also huge.
 
Am I confusing reality with one of my alternate history fanfics, or does a 2008 version of Price of Fame exist somewhere? That is a grail for me if it exists.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well when you put it like that I do agree more. But is it strictly MJs genius or is it his craft combined with him knowing when to collaborate to the right degree?

Working with QJ, Teddy, etc, hiring instrumentalists instead of just becoming a multi instrumentalist, etc.

Very interesting discussion actually.
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These are great questions! Hmm. Okay so I’ll first start by saying that a part of MJ’s genius was definitely curating his collaborations. For sure.

The other thing, which is in response to both points you’ve made, is that MJ lacked conventional songwriting tools but had extreme musical intelligence. He didn’t sit at a piano or guitar and build songs in the usual way through years of trial and error because he was already world famous, traveling and performing all around the world. First and foremost, Michael’s exposure to songwriting was interpretive and not iterative, meaning that he had to study the greats in Motown because of their lack of artistic freedom. So MJ ends up in this unusual situation where he’s a a musical mind of extraordinary talent trapped inside a body that never had the time to develop conventional songwriting tools.

So, he built his songs through rhythm, voice, beatboxing, vocalizing parts, describe texture and concept etc. That meant early versions could sound skeletal or strange, even when the underlying idea was powerful. The process had to do more work. That’s why I said my earlier statement about his genius and demos. For many artist demos are a close approximation of the final product, but for Michael his demoes were scaffoldings. If that makes sense. That’s at least how I see it, and that’s why I also believe there was simply was no need for him to become a multi instrumentalist, after all.
 
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