The Estate should do CGI and/or 2D animated short films/concert specials

TalentedKamarty

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Something like this?
Not necessarily. This looks it required either the real life Paul or a actor that looks like the younger him. At least enough to deepfake his younger self onto his face. I'm more so talking about full animation. Either a 2D style like this
(I'm sticking with Disney animation styles because there's so many to pick from lol)
Or 3D CGI. Maybe not super realism like the recent reboot of Lion King cause some aren't into that. But Maybe something like Frozen. Most would be comfortable with that style if it was 3D
 

TalentedKamarty

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So, going right back to the beginning . hmm....Would that work people ?
For a artist like MJ, I think it would. Especially if it was a short film like Michael would do it. With a story, love interest, some type of conflict, like a zombie attack, Egyptian attack, burning a club down, shooting a club up, ya know. The usual 😂
 
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TalentedKamarty

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Absolutely not[\b]
Towards everything or just the realistic CGI concert special(s)? That seems to be most people's beef. I was one of the people who saw this and thought "Damn, when is the full concert coming out??" 😂... Maybe not the skeleton strip down part unless he's doing the dance part to Ghosts but yea
but it seems nobody likes the idea of something like this being a full length concert. At least not in a super realistic way. So I'd settle for a more Pixar/"Frozen" look if most can agree on it. Seems like everyone thinks the 2D/cartoon animated music videos r a good idea. 3D could work too under the condition that it isn't too realistic like the Lion King reboot.
 

wendijane

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I mean Michael's official shop already has collaborated with Nate ... leading to these art pieces already so maybe an animation or short film - ongoing short film trilogy /project could stem from this representation of M here ? so they could perhaps get this piece of animation to come "alive" to "work with " the estate. ..yeah this is so hard :( theres alot that could happen, but fans have to now use their imagination harder. wish and dream, like Michael said right?
It's called sound and vision...so they have titled him already. I know this could work.
It would be legit, Nate knew Michael , the representation looks amazing and some fans would probably be okay with this popping up in some future project or to lead the way forward.. maybe.
 

wendijane

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Towards everything or just the realistic CGI concert special(s)? That seems to be most people's beef. I was one of the people who saw this and thought "Damn, when is the full concert coming out??" 😂... Maybe not the skeleton strip down part unless he's doing the dance part to Ghosts but yea
but it seems nobody likes the idea of something like this being a full length concert. At least not in a super realistic way. So I'd settle for a more Pixar/"Frozen" look if most can agree on it. Seems like everyone thinks the 2D/cartoon animated music videos r a good idea. 3D could work too under the condition that it isn't too realistic like the Lion King reboot.
This should never be done again ..they tried it, in a weird way ...but it lacked and .. i mean most people shunned it. So i dont think ever cgi stuff works well for michael.. If it was to be done, 2D animation cos it somehow is more accepted.
 

wendijane

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we did have adrain grants lovely representation fromthe fanzine from otw ...who was again approved by michael
Loved this , he ran throughout the magazine if i can recall. sometimes, that bugger would be on the front cover! bring that one back then?

🤩 :love: misses out the fact i was hook,line and sinker for this back in 1992.
 

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@TalentedKamarty, the CGI stuff that you are talking about does not seem to interest Michael Jackson's fans.

It is also pretty much the same thing as holograms that did not really manage to appeal to people.

Even if this CGI stuff is professionally done and it can look super realistic, some drawbacks cannot be avoided.

For example, it feels fake and comic, and thus it cannot be taken seriously.

There are also ethical and moral issues to it when you 'bring back to life' a deceased artist in order to 'perform' on stage, and many people find this idea also a bit creepy.
 

Mister_Jay_Tee

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I feel like nobodies grasping what I'm saying lol but here's the best example I can think of
Basically something like this but professionally done and the actual length of a concert. Holograms r too hard to perfect it seems. Even the fixed version I posted of the hologram still lacks in dancing to some degree. & No one will ever be as great as Michael of course but I'd be lying if God didn't gift people with elements of Michael without the whole package lol. There's impersonators out there that got the moves 100% but can't sing. U got impersonators that sound dead on like him but don't got the look or the dancing isn't as precise. The universe doesn't make duplicates lol he'll give u some but not all. But I'm basically saying "Okay, let's take the guy that dances smooth as butter like Michael, put him in a Motion capture suit for this CGI render/model. Here's another example of what I mean.
Imagine this but with a big budget behind it & bigger team to help. This guy's been working on that for awhile now. If someone like him had the funding & resources it would be next level.
Then u get somebody like Jeffrey Perez to do the vocals for the live version of songs that were never performed live.
That's just a hologram but with cel shading, tbh. You might as well play Michael Jackson The Experience.
 

TalentedKamarty

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That's just a hologram but with cel shading, tbh. You might as well play Michael Jackson The Experience.
MJ: The experience isn't fully CG. It's some dancer with their face covered dancing like Michael. That's totally different from what I'm showing. I'm talking about a fully CGI concert special. Like Avatar, or Monsters Inc, but instead of a movie it's a concert special. Only way it could be like a hologram is if there's a guy in a motion capture suit dancing like Michael and the moves aren't being programmed manually. But even if that was the case, it's alot easier to find someone who can dance like Michael & put them in a motion-captute suit than finding someone who looks, sounds, and dances like him. That's just down-right impossible lol. And again, it doesn't have to look realistic. I'll settle for something more in the style of "Frozen"
 

TalentedKamarty

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@TalentedKamarty, the CGI stuff that you are talking about does not seem to interest Michael Jackson's fans.

It is also pretty much the same thing as holograms that did not really manage to appeal to people.

Even if this CGI stuff is professionally done and it can look super realistic, some drawbacks cannot be avoided.

For example, it feels fake and comic, and thus it cannot be taken seriously.

There are also ethical and moral issues to it when you 'bring back to life' a deceased artist in order to 'perform' on stage, and many people find this idea also a bit creepy.
If they would've got the face right most of us probably wouldn't be giving it as much of a hard time as we do. The dances weren't all the way there but I would've gave them a pass if when u look in his face, it truly looked like him but that wasn't the case unfortunately.

There's ways to make CGI look real. Most people's problem with Lion King was it felt too real. It lacked the personality and energy the cartoon had.

As for the ethics & moral, if the family co-signs it, i'll be down to see it. They won't let it be done if it isn't right. And technology is so advanced that the dance moves don't have to look stiff, odd, or clunky. That's more so a concern if its realistic. Otherwise, if u go a more animated route stylistically like "Frozen" then u get a little more wiggle room to make it look a little more cartoonish
 

TalentedKamarty

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This should never be done again ..they tried it, in a weird way ...but it lacked and .. i mean most people shunned it. So i dont think ever cgi stuff works well for michael.. If it was to be done, 2D animation cos it somehow is more accepted.
I think most people shunned it because it didn't look like Michael. We would've gave some of those dance moves a pass if they nailed the look but they didn't. Or at the very least we'd hear "It was great! Some of the moves was ehh, but it was great overall". Especially cause Tupac's hologram was perfect. It reeeeally looked like him. MJ fans weren't given that. Them missing his face put attention on every other flaw that people have a problem with today. But I'm mostly off that. I'm more on the side of a concert special having the CGI animation style of something like "Frozen"

Sidenote: Not talking about a hologram. I don't even like the idea of a crowd of people watching a hologram for 2 hours in some large venue lol
 

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Wah ..i retract my statement saying " Michael isnt suited for CGI ." he was always the first to use CGI type things ...he was a car... a panther... a tiger... much more. Maybe this doesnt work because he needs some tech that hasnt been made yet ? He was always innovative so this stuff is a bit stagnant,

Ok the frozen stuff - So like , a pixar prince then? that could move like say , flyn ryder..
...more obviously.. I do know that he went to see Disney pixars - UP and i would believe was interested in Pixar technology.


Regarding holograms , I want something that hasnt been thought of yet. but for the meantime, id like the estate to work alongside the Nates representation to start. Proper AL technology.
Can you imagine -JB and MJ ?
So much we could do if we knew how to do it. :)
 

zinniabooklover

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Wah ..i retract my statement saying " Michael isnt suited for CGI ." he was always the first to use CGI type things ...he was a car... a panther... a tiger... much more. Maybe this doesnt work because he needs some tech that hasnt been made yet ? He was always innovative so this stuff is a bit stagnant,

Ok the frozen stuff - So like , a pixar prince then? that could move like say , flyn ryder..
...more obviously. I do know that he went to see Disney pixars - UP and i would believe was interested in Pixar technology.

Regarding holograms , I want something that hasnt been thought of yet. but for the meantime, id like the estate to work alongside the Nates representation to start. Proper AL technology. Can you imagine -JB and MJ ?
So much we could do if we knew how to do it. :)
Ngl, none of this stuff interests me and with Michael being dead I def don't like it. It just feels off to me. No offence to anyone who's up for this stuff. For me, though, it just feels a bit creepy and weird.

That said, if he was still alive, I think it's quite possible he'd be interested in what ABBA have done. The technology they used, I guess Michael used an earlier version of it for the Ghosts skeleton dance. I haven't been paying too much attention but it sounds like the same kind of thing but massively updated. He did seem to have an interest in the possibilities of what technology could bring to a film project.
 

wendijane

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Ngl, none of this stuff interests me and with Michael being dead I def don't like it. It just feels off to me. No offence to anyone who's up for this stuff. For me, though, it just feels a bit creepy and weird.

That said, if he was still alive, I think it's quite possible he'd be interested in what ABBA have done. The technology they used, I guess Michael used an earlier version of it for the Ghosts skeleton dance. I haven't been paying too much attention but it sounds like the same kind of thing but massively updated. He did seem to have an interest in the possibilities of what technology could bring to a film project.
Hi zin , yeah Abbas is spectacular , but its been done and Michael was 10 , 20 years ahead of anyone.
He was interested in that camera in This is It
the " red one" . He was checking it out , i dont know much about it but it was something hi tech again , he paved the way forward for so much technology and i think they need to honour this and other than an animation or some proper not been seen before AL tech , i dont know how.
 

zinniabooklover

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Hi zin , yeah Abbas is spectacular , but its been done and Michael was 10 , 20 years ahead of anyone.
He was and I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the stuff I've read about the ABBA thing. I get that they are using a really updated version but I'm slightly frustrated that it's been written about as if there wasn't already a precedent. I'm not even saying Michael was the first. He probably wasn't but his use of that technology is part of the story. I was kinda disappointed he didn't get a mention. Then again, it happens all the time so ...

He was interested in that camera in This is It
You've confused me now. What camera? Anything to do with TII I'm interested in knowing more.

the " red one" .
Red one? Oh, I am so confused now, lol. Could you tell me a bit more?

He was checking it out , i dont know much about it but it was something hi tech again ,
He had vision, that's for sure.
 

Hiker

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I think it boils down to how comfortable you are with technology. I seem to be changing my mind every day. While as someone into technology, I want to see how close can we get to imitating Michael in software, can we feed all of the performance data to a MI system and see how well it can reproduce that. If done well and with right message, it could be fun, sort of another way of creating videos and content.
 

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I think it boils down to how comfortable you are with technology. I seem to be changing my mind every day. While as someone into technology, I want to see how close can we get to imitating Michael in software, can we feed all of the performance data to a MI system and see how well it can reproduce that. If done well and with right message, it could be fun, sort of another way of creating videos and content.
Yeah, that's the true Crux of this entire discussion, what choreography can we get. Make a virtual avatar, cartoon, hologram, whatever. I just care about if it's really got MJs moves. Like take any footage from rehearsals or concerts and feed it into CGI, that'll do it for me. That's what I would wanna see.
 

wendijane

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He was and I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the stuff I've read about the ABBA thing. I get that they are using a really updated version but I'm slightly frustrated that it's been written about as if there wasn't already a precedent. I'm not even saying Michael was the first. He probably wasn't but his use of that technology is part of the story. I was kinda disappointed he didn't get a mention. Then again, it happens all the time so ...


You've confused me now. What camera? Anything to do with TII I'm interested in knowing more.


Red one? Oh, I am so confused now, lol. Could you tell me a bit more?


He had vision, that's for sure.
Well when i was searching for Abba they do use the same ...like body suit with the pins ...the bobble things on it , so its exactly the same to me. its Ghosts ...with a little more computer editing i would believe zin maybe on a larger scale really.


so ,, RED is the leading manufacturer of professional digital cinema cameras. Explore RED's modular camera system and groundbreaking image quality.
 

wendijane

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Yeah, that's the true Crux of this entire discussion, what choreography can we get. Make a virtual avatar, cartoon, hologram, whatever. I just care about if it's really got MJs moves. Like take any footage from rehearsals or concerts and feed it into CGI, that'll do it for me. That's what I would wanna see.
What about his voice..:confused:. This stuff is so tough :cry:its not just so cut and dry is it, i would like a virtual av, Cartoon, Anime, hologram/AL, buy all of these, i want him on mars as the first entertainer - in the gold leotard - and i would like something that hasn't been made yet . 🤭 :LOL:
 

zinniabooklover

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Well when i was searching for Abba they do use the same ...like body suit with the pins ...the bobble things on it , so its exactly the same to me. its Ghosts ...with a little more computer editing i would believe zin maybe on a larger scale really.
It is exactly the same but the ABBA version seems to be more detailed and pinpoints a lot more of the person's movements than the Ghost one did. Since it's more than 20 years later it's not surprising.

RED is the leading manufacturer of professional digital cinema cameras. Explore RED's modular camera system and groundbreaking image quality.
Ah, OK. Michael was always interested in what was going on behind the camera so this makes sense. I had seen this photo but it didn't really register with me. I don't think this shot is in the film, is it?

Anyway, this really isn't for me, lol. I think I'll stick to lovely photos! :ROFLMAO:
 

wendijane

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I think it boils down to how comfortable you are with technology. I seem to be changing my mind every day. While as someone into technology, I want to see how close can we get to imitating Michael in software, can we feed all of the performance data to a MI system and see how well it can reproduce that. If done well and with right message, it could be fun, sort of another way of creating videos and content.
i truly believe that with *Wanna be Startin *as i call it - They could have used those really whimsical , eye catching , pretty images from Nate.
 

wendijane

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It is exactly the same but the ABBA version seems to be more detailed and pinpoints a lot more of the person's movements than the Ghost one did. Since it's more than 20 years later it's not surprising.


Ah, OK. Michael was always interested in what was going on behind the camera so this makes sense. I had seen this photo but it didn't really register with me. I don't think this shot is in the film, is it?

Anyway, this really isn't for me, lol. I think I'll stick to lovely photos! :ROFLMAO:
I feel quite shirty with Abba cause i want Michael to be the first to use this updated tech |! Does look so pretty though. I can see 02 and ohh so beautiful 🤭🤩.... dont get me started girls lol zin yeah i kind of go to the photos when im not sure about something lol

aw well safe to say, he loved art , he loved creating , he loved technology. again , its an open question. hopefully some body can honour these facts , and can do all of this, with justice , ethically, ethnically, properly and just beaut-...magically.

edited cause im stupid yet get so passionate about some of the content in this thread, its like a ouchie , i keep picking at it - though it hurts, keep coming back to it
very hard to express at times so my train of thought gets jacked up
 
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wendijane

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You are a wild woman, wendi! :ROFLMAO:
:LOL:🤭✨✨✨✨ i know ! but im wishin and dreamin here!!🤭🤭🤭🤭 lol You do know id buy all of that given half the chance dont you hahaha want it all lol , loosing him was so bad , that i immediately dyed my hair jet black in 09, cos i wanted him all around me , i needed that image around. so for a while, and i state for a while = i had to *become * that image. Clothes shops didnt help by all the clothes/ jacket replicas - they were selling , crazy isnt it
 

zinniabooklover

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I feel quite shirty with Abba cause i want Michael to be the first to use this updated tech |!
Aww, babe! Don't be mad at them. I know what you mean. Since Ghosts was so awesome it would have been great if it could be Michael who used the improved, updated version. But, well, life happens and people move on. For me, I'd settle for Ghosts being mentioned when people write about the ABBA thing but I haven't seen it once. Perhaps I'm just being childish, lol.

Does look so pretty though. I can see 02 and ohh so beautiful
Indeed. I mean, I don't actually want any of this stuff. At all. But, if Michael was still here and the updated tech was used for something at O2 that could be interesting. I def see Michael behind the camera more than in front of it. The stuff they had planned for TII ... just looked like it would be amazing.

🤭🤩.... dont get me started girls lol zin yeah i kind of go to the photos when im not sure about something lol

aw well safe to say, he loved technology. again , its an open question. hopefully some body can do this justice , ethnically and just beaut-...magically.
Def feels as if there's an ethical angle here. Can't explain it, just my gut feeling.
 

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What about his voice..:confused:. This stuff is so tough :cry:its not just so cut and dry is it, i would like a virtual av, Cartoon, Anime, hologram/AL, buy all of these, i want him on mars as the first entertainer - in the gold leotard - and i would like something that hasn't been made yet . 🤭 :LOL:
Depends on what you are creating. If it's videos of existing songs, voice can still he his, it would be like the animated video I posted in the beginning. But if creating completely new content like an animated movie, then Michael's avatar and voice could be created without expectations of recreation exact replica which is obviously impossible.
 

wendijane

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Aww, babe! Don't be mad at them. I know what you mean. Since Ghosts was so awesome it would have been great if it could be Michael who used the improved, updated version. But, well, life happens and people move on. For me, I'd settle for Ghosts being mentioned when people write about the ABBA thing but I haven't seen it once. Perhaps I'm just being childish, lol.


Indeed. I mean, I don't actually want any of this stuff. At all. But, if Michael was still here and the updated tech was used for something at O2 that could be interesting. I def see Michael behind the camera more than in front of it. The stuff they had planned for TII ... just looked like it would be amazing.


Def feels as if there's an ethical angle here. Can't explain it, just my gut feeling.
Everyone boy cot the super sparkly abbahhh..nooo im being awful now lol no your not zin i mean it's only fair . we even have the proof of him in the pin point outfit way way back for Ghosts. they have short term memory those people that write...i could go for the jugular here, those people who bite. They suck lol

Well we only have to look at Liberian girl and that says it all to me to continue on some kind of project - a film ? not in the way that we know films though - and then first and foremost its the ethical technical issue which makes....which is the core of this subject being iffy and an almost taboo subject. I do know Michael pushed to the limit though so i should feel carefree but...
 
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