The Estate's Five Project Ideas for 2013 - What's Your Favorite?

[AlwaysThere]

^^ Every concert of the tour was filmed by Nocturne Productions (although some of these are just recordings from the Jumbotron feed, as seen in several HIStory Tour concerts and the Bad 25 Wembley DVD), but we don't really know what the estate has.

 

[Zakk]

^^ Every concert of the tour was filmed by Nocturne Productions (although some of these are just recordings from the Jumbotron feed, as seen in several HIStory Tour concerts and the Bad 25 Wembley DVD), but we don't really know what the estate has.

Nocturne Recorded the footage for the jumbotron. the footage on film was recorded by Patrick Kelley's & Will Pecchi's Film Crew.

 

[TehHolySpir1t]

^^ Every concert of the tour was filmed by Nocturne Productions (although some of these are just recordings from the Jumbotron feed, as seen in several HIStory Tour concerts and the Bad 25 Wembley DVD), but we don't really know what the estate has.

I meant filmed, not taped. Should have been more specific.

 

[AtlasAir]

If the Munich show is the ONLY 3d show they have of History tour, then maybe a limited theater run. But certainly not a big promo for it.

I'd prefer a different show and just throw it on DVD/Blu Ray (if they have another show besides Munich in HD).

Regardless of what show they chose to use, a nice bonus would be the additional songs he did at other tour stops not performed at the show they chose.

But isn't the 30th Anniversary of the Victory Tour coming up? MUST HAVE THIS!

 

[michaeljacksonkingofpop]

I pick anything except the memorial. I'll be damned if they EVER do that!!

 

[MorphineJackson1997]

I want the NEW ALBUM WITH UNRELEASED MATERIAL!!! I CANNOT WAIT!!!

 

[KgB]

why would anyone pick the memorial... ugh. UNRELEASED SONGS YES.

 

[Dri]

I would like a 3D Ghosts dvd...It was released only on VHS...

 

[WildStyle]

Take note Estate. THIS is how it's done!

http://www.bobdylan.com/us/feature/...her-self-portrait-1969-1971-set-august-27-rel

 

[HIStoric]

Honestly, I just want a new album of unreleased material. When it comes to the issue of leaving the music alone or updating it to a modern sound, a good idea would be to have the modern sound versions etc on Disc 1. Then maybe have a deluxe edition where on Disc 2, they have the demos and maybe some unfinished versions or something !

 

[Zakk]

Take note Estate. THIS is how it's done!

http://www.bobdylan.com/us/feature/...her-self-portrait-1969-1971-set-august-27-rel

give us every reel and every multitrack on 3tb apple hard-drives.

 

[MJalwaysn4ever]

Oh please, please, I'd love to have the album with unreleased material.

HIStory Tour in 3-D? Think about 3-D Gold Pants.... :wild:

 

[HIStory]

I would like a 3D Ghosts dvd...It was released only on VHS...

The Making of Thriller was a huge hit back in the 80s, selling 9 million copies, so it's so odd that it was never released on DVD/Blue-ray. There are only old VHSs of it. And also that Ghosts and its Making of were never released on DVD/Blue-ray either. So IMO it would make for a great project to release both Thriller and Ghosts with their respective Making ofs on DVD/Blue-ray. Seperately, as well as the two together in a box set.

 

[HIStory]

Take note Estate. THIS is how it's done!

http://www.bobdylan.com/us/feature/...her-self-portrait-1969-1971-set-august-27-rel

OT: This must be the first time I saw "Bob Dylan" and "vocal genius" in the same sentence. Then I realized it's the official Bob Dylan website. Lyrical genius, yes. Vocal genius, I'm not sure. LOL.

ON Topic: What do you think the Estate should learn from this? Dylan has so many unreleased tracks, demos, alternate versions etc that it's his already 10th album in the Bootleg series. I'm not sure if Michael has so many. Dylan had like 35 studio albums, Michael had six and a half. Also Dylan fans are a completely different target group than MJ fans.

Rather than bootleg albums, I'd think the model that HIStoric mentioned would work more for Michael. Ie. each release to contain 2 Disks: one with modern updates, productions, one with the original demos.

 

[HIStory]

Honestly, I just want a new album of unreleased material. When it comes to the issue of leaving the music alone or updating it to a modern sound, a good idea would be to have the modern sound versions etc on Disc 1. Then maybe have a deluxe edition where on Disc 2, they have the demos and maybe some unfinished versions or something !

Yes, that would be a good solution to the dilemma of whether to release songs with a modern, updated production or leave them as Michael left them. I as a fan prefer his songs with his vision and as he left them, I don't like anyone tempering with his production and vision. But I realize that demos will never do well on the charts and the Estate/Sony needs commercial success as well. So this would be a good solution: Disk 1 - modern production with list-A (not B or C!) hip producers, current artists etc., and Disk 2 with the original demos for the purists.

 

[WildStyle]

OT: This must be the first time I saw "Bob Dylan" and "vocal genius" in the same sentence. Then I realized it's the official Bob Dylan website. Lyrical genius, yes. Vocal genius, I'm not sure. LOL.

ON Topic: What do you think the Estate should learn from this? Dylan has so many unreleased tracks, demos, alternate versions etc that it's his already 10th album in the Bootleg series. I'm not sure if Michael has so many. Dylan had like 35 studio albums, Michael had six and a half. Also Dylan fans are a completely different target group than MJ fans.

Rather than bootleg albums, I'd think the model that HIStoric mentioned would work more for Michael. Ie. each release to contain 2 Disks: one with modern updates, productions, one with the original demos.

There is plenty of material. I would say at least as much as Dylan. IMO, probably more. There is a lot we don't know. Think of the songs on Bad 25 that we'd never even heard of. That's not to mention things like alternate takes and home tape recorder demos, etc. Are there a further 200 Billie Jean's sitting in the vaults? No. But there is a wealth of material that real music fans would drool over. Stuff that would set the charts alight like it was 1983? No, but I don't think that is important. Also why are Dylan fans such a different target group to MJ fans? I'm a Dylan fan too btw.

IMO, the whole modern update strategy is tacky and reeks of desperation. I think Michael as an artist is above that.

 

[HIStory]

There is plenty of material. I would say at least as much as Dylan. IMO, probably more. There is a lot we don't know. Think of the songs on Bad 25 that we'd never even heard of. That's not to mention things like alternate takes and home tape recorder demos, etc. Are there a further 200 Billie Jean's sitting in the vaults? No. But there is a wealth of material that real music fans would drool over. Stuff that would set the charts alight like it was 1983? No, but I don't think that is important. Also why are Dylan fans such a different target group to MJ fans? I'm a Dylan fan too btw.


IMO, the whole modern update strategy is tacky and reeks of desperation. I think Michael as an artist is above that.

I didn't say you cannot be a fan of MJ and Dylan at the same time but I think different things are expected from MJ's music and different things are expected from Dylan's. That's why I think different things work in marketing their music. Something that works for one may not necessarily work for the other and vica versa. To set the charts afire with this unreleased material isn't important to me either (though it's always nice to see when it happens), but the Estate/Sony certainly wants some commercial success as well.

Do you think an album with full of bootlegs would work better than Bad25? Bad25 was such a nice project but it didn't sell well, which is such a shame. I know we shouldn't be fixated on sales, but you do have to achieve at least some level of commercial success to make it worth.

 

[WildStyle]

I didn't say you cannot be a fan of MJ and Dylan at the same time but I think different things are expected from MJ's music and different things are expected from Dylan's.

And that is where the perception needs to change. Michael should not be seen as a lesser artist than Dylan. His work was just as important and vital. Michael was not just the Justin Bieber of his era and should not be marketed as such. Music fans should be just as interested to peep behind the curtain of MJ's work as they are with people like, Dylan, Hendrix, Elvis, The Beatles, etc. If every release is like 'Michael' I can see why they wouldn't be. This is the direction Michael's image should be steered in if they have any hope of long term success past a greatest hits album every 10 years.

Do you think an album with full of bootlegs would work better than Bad25? Bad25 was such a nice project but it didn't sell well, which is such a shame. I know we shouldn't be fixated on sales, but you do have to achieve at least some level of commercial success to make it worth.

Let's not pretend that Bad25 was a perfect release or that it was even marketed well. I liked it. Especially in contrast to 'Michael'. But do I believe I could have come up with a much better package and concept than what Sony/The Estate presented? Hell yes! At the same time I think it's time everybody tempered there expectations a bit when it comes to sales. Bad25 was only a failure when measured to the unfair expectations that were put upon it by the people that released it. Especially considering it may not have been the quality release that they thought it was.

 

[SoCav]

And that is where the perception needs to change. Michael should not be seen as a lesser artist than Dylan. His work was just as important and vital. Michael was not just the Justin Bieber of his era and should not be marketed as such. Music fans should be just as interested to peep behind the curtain of MJ's work as they are with people like, Dylan, Hendrix, Elvis, The Beatles, etc. If every release is like 'Michael' I can see why they wouldn't be. This is the direction Michael's image should be steered in if they have any hope of long term success past a greatest hits album every 10 years.

I couldn't agree more. No one is going to listen to a remix by a flavour-of-the-month producer 40 years from now, but people will be interested in hearing authentic material Michael left behind, just like people today are with the artists you mention above.

Of course I can see that it might be viable to release a remix every now and then (if done well and not too frequently). In general, though, I think the majority of the releases should be aimed at presenting, documenting and highlighting Michael's artistry, and the wealth of material he left behind, in a professional and respectful manner.

I also do not see why it would not be possible to release products aimed at a mainstream audience on the one hand, and at fans and those who are interested in, as you call it Wildstyle, 'a peep behind the curtain' at the same time. It does not have to be one or the other. A release like the Wembley concert (if available in better quality) could be marketed towards the general audience for instance, while a cd containing alternate takes from the Bad sessions could see a limited release, strictly aimed at fans.

 

[WildStyle]

Amen! I agree completely.

 

[HIStory]

And that is where the perception needs to change. Michael should not be seen as a lesser artist than Dylan. His work was just as important and vital. Michael was not just the Justin Bieber of his era and should not be marketed as such. Music fans should be just as interested to peep behind the curtain of MJ's work as they are with people like, Dylan, Hendrix, Elvis, The Beatles, etc. If every release is like 'Michael' I can see why they wouldn't be. This is the direction Michael's image should be steered in if they have any hope of long term success past a greatest hits album every 10 years.

I didn't say Michael was a lesser artist than Dylan or that he was the Justin Bieber of his era. That's not what I was saying when I said different things are expected from Michael's and Dylan's music. Dylan is mostly listened to for his lyrics, while he's not a great vocalist and his music isn't very diverse. Michael is a lot better vocalist and musically is more diverse but his lyrics may not be as strong as Dylan's (though he has more important things to say than the general public and critics tend to give him credit for). Just to name some aspects where they differ and so we have different expectations from their music. I'm not saying one is superior to the other - just different. (I actually prefer Michael, otherwise I'd be on a Bob Dylan forum.)

I see what you are saying though, that Michael's music must be marketed as quality music and I agree with that. The Michael album makes me cringe as well. Putting aside the Cascio controversy, the whole project did not do him justice and sent out the wrong message that his music is not quality music enough to be treated with the same respect as the Beatles, Dylan etc, it can be treated with sloppy, lazy production work. The videos were cheap, boring and uncreative (when Michael himself was the master of music videos), the album cover was cringe-worthy and makes it look cheap etc. I totally agree with you that it was the wrong direction and it's exactly the opposite direction the Estate/Sony should go with Michael's music and art and image. They should respect his work and consider it quality music and treat it as such.

At the same time I think it's time everybody tempered there expectations a bit when it comes to sales. Bad25 was only a failure when measured to the unfair expectations that were put upon it by the people that released it. Especially considering it may not have been the quality release that they thought it was.

Now that you brought up Dylan I looked up his discography a bit on Wikipedia (I know it's not necessarily the most reliable source, but it's the most easily available now for this purpose). It looks like his albums rarely go multi-platinum. They usually achieve gold or platinum status (500k-1million copies, or slightly more than 1 million). Even his studio albums. But he sells that constantly so it seems his fan base is, although not huge, but very loyal. Which makes even his bootleg albums go Gold (selling 500-600k each). How many did Bad25 sell? 50-100k or so? The only place it went even Gold was Poland. I don't think it's crazy expectations to want to see MJ do a bit better than that. I'm not expecing him to go Nr 1 with unreleased material or anything, but it would be nice to see his unreleased material do at least as well as others - as Dylan, if you brought him up as an example. I don't think that's a crazy thing to wish for. So like I said, no crazy expectations, but it must sell at least to make it worth for Sony and the Estate.

 

[SoCav]

Now that you brought up Dylan I looked up his discography a bit on Wikipedia (I know it's not necessarily the most reliable source, but it's the most easily available now for this purpose). It looks like his albums rarely go multi-platinum. They usually achieve gold or platinum status (500k-1million copies, or slightly more than 1 million). Even his studio albums. But he sells that constantly so it seems his fan base is, although not huge, but very loyal. Which makes even his bootleg albums go Gold (selling 500-600k each). How many did Bad25 sell? 50-100k or so? The only place it went even Gold was Poland. I don't think it's crazy expectations to want to see MJ do a bit better than that. I'm not expecing him to go Nr 1 with unreleased material or anything, but it would be nice to see his unreleased material do at least as well as others - as Dylan, if you brought him up as an example. I don't think that's a crazy thing to wish for. So like I said, no crazy expectations, but it must sell at least to make it worth for Sony and the Estate.

This is just speculation on my part, of course, but I always thought that one of the reasons for the lack of success of Bad 25 might have been that the Estate seemingly could not decide whether to target a mainstream audience or the diehard fanbase. For a mainstream release, there was simply not enough promotion. I know several casual to slightly more than casual fans who had never heard of the release until I told them. The VHS quality DVD release probably did not help matters either... For a diehard release, I think it simply contained too much uninteresting and not enough interesting stuff. Does a diehard fan really need yet another copy of the original album? I also know many hardcore fans who are not interested in remixes, especially when they take up the space of potentially unreleased demos. And then there was the third disc, which contained the exact same audio as on the dvd, only truncated. Everyone seemed to love the previously unreleased songs, but I think that, for many people, 5/6 new tracks were simply not enough to make them want to purchase the whole package.

Personally I did enjoy Bad 25 and I definitely never regretted buying it. It was, at least, a step in the right direction. At the same time, I would certainly not call it a very good release.

 

[mj_brainiac]

A series of releases in the same vein as Bob Dylan's is very possible. a 2CD set of live performances, rehearsals, demos, and outtakes spanning 1973-2009.......very plausible

 

[mj_brainiac]

This is just speculation on my part, of course, but I always thought that one of the reasons for the lack of success of Bad 25 might have been that the Estate seemingly could not decide whether to target a mainstream audience or the diehard fanbase. For a mainstream release, there was simply not enough promotion. I know several casual to slightly more than casual fans who had never heard of the release until I told them. The VHS quality DVD release probably did not help matters either... For a diehard release, I think it simply contained too much uninteresting and not enough interesting stuff. Does a diehard fan really need yet another copy of the original album? I also know many hardcore fans who are not interested in remixes, especially when they take up the space of potentially unreleased demos. And then there was the third disc, which contained the exact same audio as on the dvd, only truncated. Everyone seemed to love the previously unreleased songs, but I think that, for many people, 5/6 new tracks were simply not enough to make them want to purchase the whole package.

Personally I did enjoy Bad 25 and I definitely never regretted buying it. It was, at least, a step in the right direction. At the same time, I would certainly not call it a very good release.

Not to mention the promotion left something to be desired

 

[jtabbott8]

I wish the Estate would do things more like Bob Dylan's releases or Jimi Hendrix releases. The estate needs to stop trying to market this material as something that will be a mainstream success.. The fact is this, Michael DOES have enough unreleased material to do things like that. But the Estate would rather a big hugely marketed album with current producers mixing the music, etc..etc.. They need to loose that mentality. There are really so many things the estate could do.
and with only 4 years left in this deal, i feel like we, the fans, could be getting much more.

 

[HIStoric]

Not to mention the promotion left something to be desired

Exactly. I saw very, very, very little promotion for Bad 25 so naturally it didn't do that great. Immortal is coming to my city soon and I've seen ads everywhere, taking up a full page in the most-read newspaper, ads on TV, ads on the radio and I've actually heard people talk about it and show considerable interest ! Hell, I know a number of people who have bought tickets already. That is how powerful advertising can be and why it is even more essential now that Michael is not here to promote the albums himself.

 

[mj_brainiac]

Exactly. I saw very, very, very little promotion for Bad 25 so naturally it didn't do that great. Immortal is coming to my city soon and I've seen ads everywhere, taking up a full page in the most-read newspaper, ads on TV, ads on the radio and I've actually heard people talk about it and show considerable interest ! Hell, I know a number of people who have bought tickets already. That is how powerful advertising can be and why it is even more essential now that Michael is not here to promote the albums himself.

The promotion was so far and in between. The promotion should've started in June and ended in October or December:
MY IDEA:

June- CD/7' single re-release of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You"
- Launch of Pepsi cans


July- Unveiling of tracklisting
- 30 second commercial aired on various stations, Michaeljackson.com,Vevo, Vimeo, Youtube,
and LegacyRecordings.com

August- CD/7' single re-release of "Bad" single
MTV rebroadcast of "Behind The Beat: Michael Jackson On Tour"
MichaelJackson.com/VEVO uploads "The Magic Returns" 1987 CBS special
Printing of adverts in various magazines
BET broadcast of "Bad: The Short Films"


September- Release of Bad25 and Live At Wembley
- Michael Jackson on the cover of Billboard magazine
- Michael Jackson story in Waxpoetics magazine
- Michael Jackson story in Vibe magazine
- Greg Phillinganes interview in Ebony magazine
- Matt Forger, Bill Bottrell, and John Barnes interview with Superdeluxeedition.com



October- Broadcasts of "Bad25" documentary around the world

December-DVD and Blu Ray release of Bad25 documentary