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The only person MJ should have worked with on Invincible was Brad Buxer.

Brad Buxer was the person who brought the best of MJ - especially after Dangerous since he became his main collaborator.
Hollywood Tonight, Beautiful Girl, The Way that you love me, alongside the real Monster all could have been on the album.

Saying that, I would say Dr Freeze was working on some very interesting pieces such as Jungle City and ofc Blue Gangsta, Break of Dawn and A place with no name.

Rodney Jerkins also did bring You Rock My World, Xscape, We've had Enough and Unbreakable. Those are undeniably great songs that brought the Classic MJ sound to a new decade.

I think centering on these 3 collaborators was the best option. Much like how Dangerous was centered around Bottrell, Swedien and Riley.

Have the odd song from someone else like Butterflies (much like Keep the Faith on Dangerous) but center around these 3 collaborators. Essentially Michael should have followed on his own formula from Dangerous.
 
Spaceship said:
Brad Buxer was the best person to work with MJ after Dangerous. He doesn't get enough mainstream appreciation.
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Brad Buxer, Teddy Riley, Rodney Jerkins, Michael Prince - they were the best people to work with after Dangerous
 
It’s important to remember that “Speechless” and “The Lost Children,” two of the album’s most divisive songs, were Brad’s only major contributions to the final track listing. Are we really about to keep them at the expense of “Whatever Happens,” “Butterflies,” “You Rock My World,” “Unbreakable,” and “Break of Dawn” (among others)?

I love Brad and agree that he should’ve been given more placements on Invincible. But the collaborators weren’t the album’s problem—each and every one of them made great songs at some point with MJ. The song selection just didn’t measure up.
 
I feel like people need to have listened to Invincible at least within the past week before they comment on it. To say the least.
 
It had to do mainly with a lack of chemistry/family feel when they were making the 'Invincible' album.

Engineer Brad Sundberg has already explained what happened during the 'Invincible' album sessions:

"Gary, being 100% openly biased, I agree about 'Dangerous', 'HIStory' and 'Bad'. (I worked on all of them). I really tried to like 'Invincible', but here's my take on it.

The previous 5 or 6 projects had a family of people working on them: Quincy, Rod, Bruce, Billy, Teddy, Matt, Brad B, Eddie, me, etc. Sure, there were changes in team players, etc., but there was this core group for many years. There was laughter, food, jokes, fun. I spoke to a couple of the guys that worked on 'Invincible', and that "family feel" was gone. It was just Rodney [Jerkins], who (I am told) was not terribly easy to work with. It might sound crazy, but when people enjoy working, eating and being together, you can hear it in the music. 'Invincible' lacked a family." (Brad Sundberg)

Brad Sundberg made that revelation to Gary Crocker (owner of the now-defunct 'MaxJax: HIStory Continues' online fan forum).
 
AlwaysThere said:
It’s important to remember that “Speechless” and “The Lost Children,” two of the album’s most divisive songs, were Brad’s only major contributions to the final track listing. Are we really about to keep them at the expense of “Whatever Happens,” “Butterflies,” “You Rock My World,” “Unbreakable,” and “Break of Dawn” (among others)?

I love Brad and agree that he should’ve been given more placements on Invincible. But the collaborators weren’t the album’s problem—each and every one of them made great songs at some point with MJ. The song selection just didn’t measure up.
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Buxer also did "Hollywood", "The Way You Love Me" and a dozen other demos for "Invincible". Ultimately, MJ took the decision to keep these two songs (probably because he didn't have time to finish the other songs). Brad Buxer did the music for it (MJ came up with the parts/lyrics) but he even agreed that thoses were terrible songs
 
mj_frenzy said:
It had to do mainly with a lack of chemistry/family feel when they were making the 'Invincible' album.

Engineer Brad Sundberg has already explained what happened during the 'Invincible' album sessions:

"Gary, being 100% openly biased, I agree about 'Dangerous', 'HIStory' and 'Bad'. (I worked on all of them). I really tried to like 'Invincible', but here's my take on it.

The previous 5 or 6 projects had a family of people working on them: Quincy, Rod, Bruce, Billy, Teddy, Matt, Brad B, Eddie, me, etc. Sure, there were changes in team players, etc., but there was this core group for many years. There was laughter, food, jokes, fun. I spoke to a couple of the guys that worked on 'Invincible', and that "family feel" was gone. It was just Rodney [Jerkins], who (I am told) was not terribly easy to work with. It might sound crazy, but when people enjoy working, eating and being together, you can hear it in the music. 'Invincible' lacked a family." (Brad Sundberg)

Brad Sundberg made that revelation to Gary Crocker (owner of the now-defunct 'MaxJax: HIStory Continues' online fan forum).
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Feels like Brad was a big salty taking into account he didn’t do anything notable in his career outside of collaborating with MJ
 
AlwaysThere said:
It’s important to remember that “Speechless” and “The Lost Children,” two of the album’s most divisive songs, were Brad’s only major contributions to the final track listing.
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Funny enough, those two songs are MJ's only major contributions to the album.

And "Speechless" isn't very divisive, nah. "The Lost Children", "2000 Watts", "Privacy", "You Are My Life", "Don't Walk Away", "Cry" and the title track definitely were more polarizing.
AlwaysThere said:
Are we really about to keep them at the expense of “Whatever Happens,” “Butterflies,” “You Rock My World,” “Unbreakable,” and “Break of Dawn” (among others)?
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Some of those can be kept, but they're not really impressive.

"Butterflies" and "Break of Dawn" are generic R&B slow jams.
"Whatever Happens" is generic Latin pop.
"Unbreakable" is a ripoff of a Biggie song.
"You Rock My World" is a generic Darkchild song.
 
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AlwaysThere said:
It’s important to remember that “Speechless” and “The Lost Children,” two of the album’s most divisive songs, were Brad’s only major contributions to the final track listing.
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Brad himself has said he didn't like The Lost Children.
 
MJ himself came up with "Speechless" and "The Lost Children". He worked on them with Brad because he was his main collaborator. Emphasis on "collaborator", not "guy who just makes beats and writes lyrics for MJ to sing".

"Hollywood Tonight", "The Way You Love Me" and "Beautiful Girl" were also done with Brad. Those definitely should have been on the album.
 
Dorian said:
Feels like Brad was a big salty taking into account he didn’t do anything notable in his career outside of collaborating with MJ
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I mean, with what we know about the Invincible sessions, I don't really see how what he is saying is wrong.
 
MJ didn't need to collaborate with anyone. Brad wasn't gonna be the new Quincy. If he's going to Collab he might as well branch out. If anything he should go even less familiar, someone even newer.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I mean, with what we know about the Invincible sessions, I don't really see how what he is saying is wrong.
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It wasn't just Rodney, that's a bit of an oversimplification. They had quite a lot of fun apparently. It was just a different group, is all. And, not that it means anything exactly, but it was less racially diverse perhaps as well. Predominantly all black people.
 
Brad Buxer's only collaboration of note with MJ was Stanger in Moscow in my opinion.

The way you love me is a poor cotton candy type of song in the style of girlfriend or carousel just not as good. There's no way it should have been on an album.

Hollywood tonight is a good unreleased piece of work but that's about it...
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It wasn't just Rodney, that's a bit of an oversimplification. They had quite a lot of fun apparently. It was just a different group, is all. And, not that it means anything exactly, but it was less racially diverse perhaps as well. Predominantly all black people.
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I'm sure when MJ actually bothered to turn up they had fun, yeah. I just think Brad is correct about it not being as connected of an experience. I also don't think it was much to do with Rodney, not sure why he felt the need to say that tbh.
 
kreen said:
Brad himself has said he didn't like The Lost Children.
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He also said he wasn't particularly fond of Heal The World, I'm pretty sure. So what? Not everyone's favourite genre of music is this kind of innocent, "heal the planet", "change the world"- type ballad. Brad has said that he much more likes to listen to "darker stuff" like e.g. In The Back.

From a musical standpoint, I really like The Lost Children. I think it has a charming melody and beautiful arrangement. It's not something I would listen to everyday, for sure, but I think it comes from a truly sincere place in Michael's heart, which is nice. It's a shame some people hate it simply because of the subject matter and the unfortunate association some uneducated people make with it. This is Michael Jackson's authentic voice as a songwriter, not Heartbreaker, not Break Of Dawn and not Butterflies.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I like all those, and TWYLM is way better than both. Have you never listened to the Beach Boys?
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Dude.... Pet Sounds is my jam , man!!

The way you love me is not on the same level as anything I've heard. MJ has so much more stronger tracks.

If you like it though then that's totally fine 🙂
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I'm sure when MJ actually bothered to turn up they had fun, yeah. I just think Brad is correct about it not being as connected of an experience. I also don't think it was much to do with Rodney, not sure why he felt the need to say that tbh.
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He doesn't know Rodney, that's pretty much why. And personally preferred it the old fashioned way
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Dude.... Pet Sounds is my jam , man!!

The way you love me is not on the same level as anything I've heard. MJ has so much more stronger tracks.

If you like it though then that's totally fine 🙂
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I actually preferred the Neff-U version. It sounds better with the organic piano. But it's at least a nice little ditty. It's just nice to hear latter day MJ singing happy stuff.
 
I know Brad wasn’t a cheerleader for “Speechless” or “The Lost Children,” but he nevertheless was the point person as MJ built those songs. He’s said before that he will essentially contribute to anything and everything MJ presents regardless of his personal feelings towards the tracks. At most, he was usually the co-producer, which essentially meant a song’s quality was dependent on MJ alone. Nothing against the man as I know MJ was the captain, but I don’t think passiveness is a good quality for a primary producer. (Plus, in general, Brad’s material is more ballad/midtempo. I haven’t heard anything to suggest he could pull off those high energy dance tracks. Keep him on for the moodier pieces.)

Truth is, MJ couldn’t have done an album solo. He needed people to rein him in, as his ambitions could become very unwieldy. Bruce Swedien assisted with the track listings and song edits in the 1990s, but he had little involvement in Invincible—and look how that turned out.
 
Bruce Swedien mixed and recorded plenty of the tracks on Invincible.

AlwaysThere said:
I don’t think passiveness is a good quality for a primary producer.
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MJ himself would be the primary producer lol. Brad Buxer is just one of the people who MJ could work with without being overly dependent on.
 
Spaceship said:
Bruce Swedien mixed and recorded plenty of the tracks on Invincible.


MJ himself would be the primary producer lol. Brad Buxer is just one of the people who MJ could work with without being overly dependent on.
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Well, MJ was very dependant of Brad Buxer. He brought his ideas to life by actually recording real demos, that later would turn into final songs. The term "collaborator" would be an understatement IMO, "co-producer/co-writer" would be more appropriate. Seeing those Sundberg videos (TDCaU choir sessions) shows that Buxer was really a conductor/producer, shows the parts to the crew. It doesn't take away anything from MJ's writing skills, though.
 
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