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The only person MJ should have worked with on Invincible was Brad Buxer.

From what I know, early on in the Invincible sessions - Michael was much more hands on (98 and 99).
It was much the same with that family vibe. Buxer, Freeze, Swedien, Michael Prince and other engineers were all there.

It seems that sometime after Jerkins joined the vibe shifted for whatever reason.
Michael became much more hands off and was literally phoning it in. I'm not saying Jerkins is responsible, but something definitely changed around that time.

The early dynamic pieces became forgotten like In the Back, TWTYLM, Hollywood Tonight, Monster, Blue Gangsta and APWNN and he started letting Jerkins take control with his pieces. Moreover, Jackson moved studios multiple times so songs got lost in the shuffle.

I think the best stuff Jerkins and Jackson worked on was when it had input with both - Unbreakable, Xscape, We've had enough or when it had the Jackson sound (YRMW). It has Jerkins's productions, but Jackson's motifs so keep it more engaging and less mundane.

Whilst Riley did bring some good songs in, he should not have been a part of the Invincible project. He was just bringing in songs from other artists to Jackson. They're much more forgettable because they literally have 0 Jackson input.

Also what happened to the Babyface songs? He ended up with one song but they worked on several from what I remember.
 
Keyan Asadi said:
It seems that sometime after Jerkins joined the vibe shifted for whatever reason.
Michael became much more hands off and was literally phoning it in. I'm not saying Jerkins is responsible, but something definitely changed around that time.
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I'd say the accident in Munich & the neccessary pain medication had turned MJ into a different persona
 
I can say more Buxer songs would be way superior to Cry by R.Kelly. Man that guy just sucks.
 
mj_frenzy said:
It had to do mainly with a lack of chemistry/family feel when they were making the 'Invincible' album.

Engineer Brad Sundberg has already explained what happened during the 'Invincible' album sessions:

"Gary, being 100% openly biased, I agree about 'Dangerous', 'HIStory' and 'Bad'. (I worked on all of them). I really tried to like 'Invincible', but here's my take on it.

The previous 5 or 6 projects had a family of people working on them: Quincy, Rod, Bruce, Billy, Teddy, Matt, Brad B, Eddie, me, etc. Sure, there were changes in team players, etc., but there was this core group for many years. There was laughter, food, jokes, fun. I spoke to a couple of the guys that worked on 'Invincible', and that "family feel" was gone. It was just Rodney [Jerkins], who (I am told) was not terribly easy to work with. It might sound crazy, but when people enjoy working, eating and being together, you can hear it in the music. 'Invincible' lacked a family." (Brad Sundberg)

Brad Sundberg made that revelation to Gary Crocker (owner of the now-defunct 'MaxJax: HIStory Continues' online fan forum).
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I love Brad but I take issue with this statement. So what he is indirectly saying that the people on working on Invincible didn’t enjoy working together?

To me it seems like his is painting the picture of the Invincible sessions being run like a gulag of some sorts. Maybe if there were more jokes and food fights thrown in, Privacy would have turned out better.
 
Brad definitely brought the good out of Michael during those times but Dr. Freeze and Rodney definitely brought out the best imo. Dr. Freeze is very underrated when it comes to the Invincible sessions. (BOD, and the unreleased) Love him or hate him, Rodney made some long lasting hit beats for Michael. (Unbreakable, Threatened, YRMW & Heartbreaker) He made YRMW, you could say what you want about the other produced tracks but YRMW! If Rodney wasn't on the Invincible project, we wouldn't have gotten the original E(X)scape. If it was just Brad Buxer on the album, Invincible wouldn't be Invincible. It would be a totally different album and (imo) it wouldn't be as good as Invincible. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
 
Fuzball said:
I'd say the accident in Munich & the neccessary pain medication had turned MJ into a different persona
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And also have to take in account that Michael was a new full-time father, just had kids. Juggling other projects too & other avenues to put art out there. The Munich accident, kids, projects etc.... Michael was still Michael just not as he was before like to say the Thriller, Bad & Dangerous sessions. He was still creating and had motivation to work but it was on and off with the hands on/hands off. He was burned out from the previous tour as well probably. He was still writing but maybe didn't think some of his songs were strong album material or had writer's block. The ratio of writers demo to his own lyrics is higher but the content was still good.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I love Brad but I take issue with this statement. So what he is indirectly saying that the people on working on Invincible didn’t enjoy working together?

To me it seems like his is painting the picture of the Invincible sessions being run like a gulag of some sorts. Maybe if there were more jokes and food fights thrown in, Privacy would have turned out better.
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It was really the last few sessions of the album being re-recorded post Sony intervention that may be lost the initial spark.

But there was a lot of cohesion thematically early on. Unbreakable, Get Your Weight Off Me, Xscape, Threatened. That's a pretty strong set of songs. It was adding on that alienated people (Heartbreaker, Invincible, Privacy). And the love songs, and the various other song writers that change the gambit.
 
Without Rodney Jerkins there would be no Invincible album. Rodney Jerkins has the biggest value in recording of Invincible album
 
Spaceship said:
Brad Buxer was the best person to work with MJ after Dangerous. He doesn't get enough mainstream appreciation.
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Agree. I would add Dr Freeze and another young producer or two. Fresh blood to make a great album.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
You Rock My World is consistently the most popular song from Invincible and that was Darkchild. Meanwhile, no one listens to Speechless or The Lost Children.
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Who cares? "You Rock My World" was the only song from the album to be released as a single/to radio worldwide and the others weren't.
 
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Spaceship said:
Who cares? "You Rock My World" was the only song from the album to be released as a single/to radio worldwide and the others weren't.
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And that means Speechless would've succeeded? As if.

If the whole record sounded like YRMW, that really wouldn't have been so bad at all.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
You Rock My World is consistently the most popular song from Invincible and that was Darkchild. Meanwhile, no one listens to Speechless or The Lost Children.
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It might have something to do with being the first single. I never cared for the track. It plods along, but it is quite unremarkable. Rodney and his team were a poor choice, I reckon.
 
xam said:
It might have something to do with being the first single. I never cared for the track. It plods along, but it is quite unremarkable. Rodney and his team were a poor choice, I reckon.
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Being the first single has nothing to do with the tracks popularity 22 years ago. Is it that hard to just say it's good? As compared to what? Michael Jackson? Everyone literally compares him to him.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Being the first single has nothing to do with the tracks popularity 22 years ago. Is it that hard to just say it's good?
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I don't understand your logic. It got a video. It got released as a single. It is going to be more popular with the masses. At the very least it's off to a running start, compared to all the other tracks, 'visibility'-wise.

Tastes are all subjective. I never got excited by the track. But then again I never got excited by the Invincible project apart from Break Of Dawn.
 
xam said:
I don't understand your logic. It got a video. It got released as a single. It is going to be more popular with the masses. At the very least it's off to a running start, compared to all the other tracks, 'visibility'-wise.

Tastes are all subjective. I never got excited by the track. But then again I never got excited by the Invincible project apart from Break Of Dawn.
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Of course that's helped with longevity, you're right. It's a better video than Cry for sure. But idk, the song is more popular than most HIStory videos by the same measurement, except You Are Not Alone and They Don't Care About Us (Brazilian Version). So you can't argue with that popularity. And it's like a super popular trend on TikTok, that Cool Fred Astaire dance. So yeah.
 
MJ should have made a music video with David Lynch at one point, he fucking did a teaser with him for Dangerous too. But never followed through. would have been incredible
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Being the first single has nothing to do with the tracks popularity 22 years ago.
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The only reason so many people heard it back then was because it was chosen as a single. When a song is sent to radio, people can listen to it even if they don't buy the album. If the music video is released (specifically on TRL, back in 2001), more people can listen to it even if they don't buy the album. If a song is only part of the album, then not as many people will hear it.

It wouldn't make a difference if the entire album sounded like "You Rock My World". Most people only hear the singles, period.
 
Spaceship said:
Not every song on the album needs to be a single.

That would suck because then it would lack variety.
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Speechless was intended to be a single; in South Korea it was a promo single.

Then it would be like Off The Wall i'd say.

Spaceship said:
The only reason so many people heard it back then was because it was chosen as a single. When a song is sent to radio, people can listen to it even if they don't buy the album. If the music video is released (specifically on TRL, back in 2001), more people can listen to it even if they don't buy the album. If a song is only part of the album, then not as many people will hear it.

It wouldn't make a difference if the entire album sounded like "You Rock My World". Most people only hear the singles, period.
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I can agree with this. But I'm talking about today's TikTok kids singling out and favoring YRMW over many other MJ prime 90s singles. Maybe being a single helps but that doesn't explain Chicago or Heaven Can Wait. Id say both things are a factor pretty much.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Speechless was intended to be a single; in South Korea it was a promo single.
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promos aren't commercial

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Then it would be like Off The Wall i'd say.
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Not many people know "Get on the Floor", "Burn This Disco Out", "It's the Falling in Love", "I Can't Help It", or "Girlfriend" and that's half of the album.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
But I'm talking about today's TikTok kids singling out and favoring YRMW over many other MJ prime 90s singles.
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It's not like TikTok brought "You Rock My World" back to the Hot 100. You overrate these random TikTok fads.
 
Spaceship said:
Not many people know "Get on the Floor", "Burn This Disco Out", "It's the Falling in Love", "I Can't Help It", or "Girlfriend" and that's half of the album.
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Those are some of the best, and many are people's favorites.


Spaceship said:
It's not like TikTok brought "You Rock My World" back to the Hot 100. You overrate these random TikTok fads.
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Who cares? It gets more streams than most stuff.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Those are some of the best, and many are people's favorites.
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No, they're not lol. People know "Don't Stop", "Rock with You", the title track, "She's Out of My Life" and maybe "Working Day and Night". Beyond that, you'd have to be more than a casual listener.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Who cares? It gets more streams than most stuff.
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On something that actually matters like Spotify, or just TikTok?

This ain't it cheef
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It was really the last few sessions of the album being re-recorded post Sony intervention that may be lost the initial spark.

But there was a lot of cohesion thematically early on. Unbreakable, Get Your Weight Off Me, Xscape, Threatened. That's a pretty strong set of songs. It was adding on that alienated people (Heartbreaker, Invincible, Privacy). And the love songs, and the various other song writers that change the gambit.
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"Unbreakable" and "Threatened" were late additions recorded in 2001.

"Heartbreaker", "Can't Get Your Weight Off Me" the title song were recorded in 2000, which was MJ decided to start from scratch on the album. "Escape" and "Privacy" were recorded in 1999, though.
 
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